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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic-cat View Post
    I personally have come to believe that Casey is the one who did the massive cleaning of the trunk. Reason for this belief? Caylee's dead and decomposing body was lying there in the trunk and only ONE single hair from her head was found there where she lay. The fact that bodily fluids had leaked into the trunk and this was not apparent to the naked eye, but only under black light, indicates there was a cleaning. I think she took it to that carwash that she told Tony she had cleaned HIS vehicle at...Also, I think this happened when she told Amy she got rid of the smell in her car. Just an opinion...
    I agree with you there magic-cat. The detectives, while interviewing AL, seemed interested in the car wash he mentioned to them. It all makes sense to me. I get the idea that KC is lazy, however, she would clean the car if it meant her going to jail.

    Also, I can't get over the fact that her favorite show was CSI and the episode in April of this year had a girl named Caleigh in it who was abducted which also involved chloroform. Between the pic that RM had on his facebook that read "Win her over with Chloroform" this episode and a few google searches it may be where she got the idea.


  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow of my mind View Post
    My partially thought out timeline using the the 2.6 days as a starting point.


    I don't have a clear set date in my head as to the day Caylee died yet.
    But with that said at some point Caylee after being dead for 2.6 days [60+ hours] was placed in the trunk directly on the carpet liner and left behind enough of the body causing a stain on the trunk liner or enclosed in something that leaked causing a small stain on the trunk liner. This spot after so many days of sitting in hot trunk started to smell, thus causing Casey to dump the car on the 27th of June.
    Now that does not mean that the only time Caylee was in the trunk was just for a single period of time. It just means that the body or body fluids that leaked that the sample came from where at the stage of 2.6 days of decomp.
    So pick a day for the death day. After about 60+ hours [2.6 days] of Caylee being dead, there was contamination to the trunk liner. If Caylee was placed back into the trunk then she had to be inside of something, that something had to be airtight and did not leak, keeping the trunk gaseous level at the 2.6 days time frame.
    At this point with any new non-leaking container Caylee may have been in the trunk multiply times. At some point Caylee body was disposed. This could be before or after Casey dumped the car. The only thing about the car was that by the June 27th Casey could not stand the smell that came about because of the contact of the body or the leak from the body that had already happen after the 2.6 days [60+ hours].

    Now Brian B. has the shovel day as either the 18th or the 19th of June in the afternoon for an hour. I will take the last time Caylee was seen alive the afternoon of June 16th about 1:00PM. We know that Chris S. said she was in a dark green jeep with NY plates but he cannot remember what day, 17th, 18th or 19th. I believe she may have been afraid to drive the car very much while she had a body in it. We also know that Brian B. said that Casey was out the house on June 20th with a man with dark hair that he had never seen before in a green truck. Tony admits that he went with Casey to the A’s to get gas and this was before the ‘come get me at Amscot I ran out gas’ on June 27th but he is not sure of the date, he place it between 17th and 23rd .which if you take into account Casey’s text to Amy H. about running out of gas two Fridays in a row make this date June 20th and that jives with Mr. B.’s date that he saw the green truck.
    From there we have a 4 day gap in time but we know on the June 24th Casey brought the gas cans back and would not let George go in the trunk.
    Then we go to the 27th of June when she dumped the car.
    Now we also have 3 possible sightings of Casey in the same time period of June 21st-27th or 28th.
    We also have Casey using Cindy’s car but we still do not know when this was so it may not play into this time frame at all.
    That is what we have to work with. Now we can attempt to look at cell phone records, tower pings and sightings of places and times that other people have placed Casey and try to expand on the 2.6 days and come up with a workable time frame.

    Possible Time Frame #1
    Using the 2.6 day calculation and placing importance on the shovel Caylee died the afternoon of the 16th and Casey put her in the trunk from then to the afternoon of the 19th. That would give you your 2.6 days gaseous decomp level and this can be supported by Casey showing up at the A’s on the 19th to borrowed the shovel from Brain B. Casey then placed Caylee into something, a pool chemical container, plastic tub or wrapped really good in plastic and then puts her back in the trunk.
    Casey still needed gas for either the car, the trunk, or for something else by the 20th.I believe she may have been taking Tony’s jeep out while he was in school when she was going to places like Chris S. house and wanted the gas in the cans for her car so she did not run the risk of a station attendant smelling her car if she stopped for gas at a gas station.
    On the 24th either the trunk of her car was just starting to smell and she had this container with Caylee in the trunk and she did not want her father to close to see anything or smell anything.
    On the 25th of June she text Amy H. about the smell as a cover in case someone did notice something but by the 27th just after getting Tony to pick her up at the Amscot lot she lets Amy H. know the mystery was solved hence she got rid of what was causing the smell ‘the dead squirrel’ story.
    She may have attempted to clean the trunk leaving behind some container of cleaning solution [chloroform ?] that GA said was in the trunk, the garbage bag with a box of leftover pizza and some papers. Once she was done with her attempt at cleaning and thought that the smell would go away or start to lessen she figured she was be better off leaving the car somewhere where no one would recognize it so she left it parked at the Amscot on the morning of the 27th. I do have to wonder if she was going to try and salvage the car because she was still looking for gas cans on the 30th or she realized she would be able to use Tony’s jeep once he left on the 30th but she had to continue with the charade of needing the gas cans with Amy so to many questions would not be asked.
    Before she was able to do retrieve the car it ended up being towed and that spot in the trunk just kept getting worse. She truly may have run out of gas because she had driven further than planned trying to find a location to dispose of Caylee.

    Whichever the case if she went back and found the car already missing she now had another problem. Where did the car go? Casey's phone activity became more and more frenzied from that point until about 8:00PM on July 4th. We know Casey was avoiding her mother like the plague at this point. Casey was avoiding Lee as well. Cindy was making demands to see Caylee plus if Cindy was leaving messages to Casey and threatening her with car theft even before that first 911 call to get her to come home with Caylee Casey may have thought that Cindy knew more about the car then she really did.
    I also believe that Casey may have not totally disposed of the body or was at least contemplating moving her at least through July 5th. The night sweats with Tony are very interesting. I have to wonder if they started after she disposed of Caylee and now she could no longer pretend to herself, at least in her own mind, that Caylee was with the nanny.

    I have based this on what has been said in transcripts and taped interviews and have not taken into consideration if there is any deception in any of these people’s statements.
    Shadow - You and I are thinking along similar lines. I agree with most of what you've theorized about. I also do not think that she was abandoning the car and had every intention to go back and get it. She must have completely panicked when she went back and saw that it wasn't there! In fact, I think that she drove by the Amscott when she left Amy's on the afternoon of the 30th and she most likely noticed then and there that it was gone!

    I went back and read the Simon B transcripts and he does say there that the Amscott parking area has towing signs. I would imagine that they also have the name of the towing company. She may well have gone round to Johnson's to see if she could see the car. I realize that one of the towers near the A's is right next to Johnson's so, it's difficult to know whether she did this or not but it is a possibility.


  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Panther View Post
    Shadow - You and I are thinking along similar lines. I agree with most of what you've theorized about. I also do not think that she was abandoning the car and had every intention to go back and get it. She must have completely panicked when she went back and saw that it wasn't there! In fact, I think that she drove by the Amscott when she left Amy's on the afternoon of the 30th and she most likely noticed then and there that it was gone!

    I went back and read the Simon B transcripts and he does say there that the Amscott parking area has towing signs. I would imagine that they also have the name of the towing company. She may well have gone round to Johnson's to see if she could see the car. I realize that one of the towers near the A's is right next to Johnson's so, it's difficult to know whether she did this or not but it is a possibility.
    Pink, not only did Casey go back on the 30th according to Amy's interview Casey was trying to go on the 29th but Amy (text) couldn't take her. Amy bought the gas cans on the 30th for Casey and Amy said they hung out until she went to work at 5:00 or 6:00 and then Casey left in Tony's Jeep with the gas cans. If Amy had been available on the 29th for Casy to get the car I wonder where we would be now.


  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by TakeNote View Post
    but one thing is very clear....there was some kind of clean up....for them to have only found one hair....

    I agree. IMO the car/trunk was cleaned.
    But who cleaned it? Casey? or George? after they got it back from the Towing Company.
    Lee did say his dad was very meticulous about keeping their vehicles clean, he must have a variety of cleaning supplies for the vehicles in the garage.


  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by impatientredhead View Post
    I agree with that this was premeditated, but for anyone that doesn't keep in mind in Florida Murder 1/death penalty does not require proof of premediation. They only need an aggravating factor which can and does include the age of the victim and death resulting from aggravated child abuse.

    Thanks for this info... I did not know that!


  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastSideOfSaddness View Post
    I agree with you there magic-cat. The detectives, while interviewing AL, seemed interested in the car wash he mentioned to them. It all makes sense to me. I get the idea that KC is lazy, however, she would clean the car if it meant her going to jail.

    Also, I can't get over the fact that her favorite show was CSI and the episode in April of this year had a girl named Caleigh in it who was abducted which also involved chloroform. Between the pic that RM had on his facebook that read "Win her over with Chloroform" this episode and a few google searches it may be where she got the idea.
    EastSide - You don't happen to have a link to information about this episode, do you??? I'd like to read about it! I've found two other references to chloroform in CSI. One actually talks about it being used to blow out tires!!!?


  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by minazoe View Post
    no no, she did not want to knock out the baby, she wanted to kill her. I beleive she summarily chloroformed that child either by shutting her in the trunk with a rag and walked away, or she put it over her mouth until she died.

    you don't chloroform your baby period.

    there was no reason to do this, she could have simply dropped Caylee off with her mother and run off to do whatever she pleased.

    she killed the baby out of spite, hatefulness and selfishness.

    there is no way you can paint this as a nice accident, it was 1st degree murder of the most vicious kind against a helpless innocent.
    My thoughts keep going back to the fight on Father's day between Cindy and Casey. Considering it had to do with Casey stealing from the grandparents Assisted Living account I believe it was a very heated arguement like the neighbor stated.
    If I remember correctly, Cindy had to convince her parents not to press charges against Casey. I'm wondering if Cindy finally gave Casey an ulitmatum that night, like get your act together or we will go to court and get custody of Caylee and show you're an unfit mother. That would fit in with Cindy's 911 call when she said "I've already given you a month"

    What keeps nagging at me is just how angered was Casey after this fight? Angry enough to do harm to Caylee? It was reported she wanted to go to Tony L's apartment, he said yes but Caylee could not come over. Did that anger her even further?


  8. #158
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    Intermezzo: My thoughts keep going back to the fight on Father's day between Cindy and Casey. Considering it had to do with Casey stealing from the grandparents Assisted Living account I believe it was a very heated arguement like the neighbor stated.
    If I remember correctly, Cindy had to convince her parents not to press charges against Casey. I'm wondering if Cindy finally gave Casey an ulitmatum that night, like get your act together or we will go to court and get custody of Caylee and show you're an unfit mother. That would fit in with Cindy's 911 call when she said "I've already given you a month"

    What keeps nagging at me is just how angered was Casey after this fight? Angry enough to do harm to Caylee? It was reported she wanted to go to Tony L's apartment, he said yes but Caylee could not come over. Did that anger her even further?


    I, too have focused in on the fight and KC's plans that night--particularly since latest theory being tossed about re KC being told by TL she could come over eve of June 15 but only "w/out Caylee." My post was corrected and I was informed that it was not TL but the other TonyR who said this? Although I had my doubts it was immaterial since I was still left asking the question: If true, that it was after the fight on night of June 15, then are we to believe GA who, for all his public denial has been otherwise officially cooperative w/ LE, is lying re seeing Caylee alive and well the am of June 16? JMO
    Last edited by kiki the parrot; 10-27-2008 at 05:32 PM.


  9. #159
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    We don't know if there was a fight on Father's Day.


  10. #160
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    OK....I hate to even go here, because the thought absolutely turns me inside out.....but what if???......Lets pretend that Caylee was found by KC after some kind of accident (be it drowning, OD, whatever)...what if KC believed her child deceased (couldn't find a pulse/hear a heartbeat...) and she put her in the trunk. What if Caylee was salvageable at that point....and maybe even for a few days.....this could also push the timetable....once decomp began, KC tried to dispose of her---first thought, bury her under her fave playhouse--but surety of her eventually being unearthed drove her to package the remains and find an alternate disposal...??


  11. #161
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    regarding Father's day
    you know what I found strange
    and I don't know if it evens means anything
    remember Casey first claimed June 9 was the day that Caylee disappeared
    if you read the transcript of the interview with Cindy'S mother
    I read it recently
    she says, a couple times, regarding the date, "I thought it was the 8th "
    "I keeping thinking it was the 8th but it was the 15th"
    something to that affect
    I just find it odd the Casey was a week off and the great grandmother was also a week off regarding that day


  12. #162
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    Post 2.6 Days- Arguing forensice evidence?

    I am wondering if any of you with more experience could please explain something...

    I heard part of the report that shows there was human decomposition in the trunk of Casey's car, there was a hair whose mitochondrial DNA matches Casey's, and there is post mortem banding on the hair. In addition, the report says that the decomposition existed for 2.6 days in the trunk of that car.

    Since this info is so specific, can someone explain how a defense team would argue this????? I mean, they know to the HOUR that baby Caylee's body was dead, in that trunk based on the evidence.

    Is it arguable? Could there possibly be any reasonable doubt at this point?


  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMCDAD View Post
    regarding Father's day
    you know what I found strange
    and I don't know if it evens means anything
    remember Casey first claimed June 9 was the day that Caylee disappeared
    if you read the transcript of the interview with Cindy'S mother
    I read it recently
    she says, a couple times, regarding the date, "I thought it was the 8th "
    "I keeping thinking it was the 8th but it was the 15th"
    something to that affect
    I just find it odd the Casey was a week off and the great grandmother was also a week off regarding that day
    Was she too confused about the date? I thought she was one of the few in the family that had it straight. I still think it is crazy that they all had the wrong date.


  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmyinTheHam View Post
    Was she too confused about the date? I thought she was one of the few in the family that had it straight. I still think it is crazy that they all had the wrong date.
    I'm telling you, if you get a chance take a look
    maybe its just me


  15. #165
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    Mrs.G: In addition, the report says that the decomposition existed for 2.6 days in the trunk of that car.

    I understood this to mean the decomp, while inside the trunk, was estimated to be at an approx. stage of 2.6 days (as opposed to the period of time it was in this location) Hope I'm not wrong about that...
    Last edited by kiki the parrot; 10-28-2008 at 12:00 AM.


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