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Thread: Moving van at Cooper House now (11/13/08)

  1. #151
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    Unhappy

    Warrkat,

    I agree with you statistically the finger points directly at BC, but evidence has yet to be presented showing his guilt. I have always had the feeling we were missing something, I have been concerned that CPD had tunnel vision toward BC and did not look elsewhere. I will be glad when trial arrives and we can see and hear the "concrete" evidence, it will put my mind at ease that we have the right man. BTW, in North Carolina only spouses can be recorded at Tenants by the entirety, if the couple is not married the most common type of recordation is tenants in common, joint tenancy is not as common, neither tenants in common or joint tenants allows for survivorship only tenancy by the entirety, in some states joint tenancy has survivorship but not in NC. I checked my reference last evening and I am right regarding the tenancy by the entirety, the whole amount of real property reverted to BC at the moment of NC's death. Regarding her personal property it is all his, as she died intestate and they were legally married and not separated at the time, regardless of their plans no legal agreement had been signed. I truly hate it for the girls, but it appears that BC was totally within his rights, and probably Sasser knew that when she ruled as she did regarding his property.

  2. #152
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    FWIW, my previous post was not so much about the LEGAL rights of Brad, but more so the MORAL rights. Same goes with the attorneys of the accused.
    I think the jury is out about 'rights' of inheritance regarding this case. (Michelle Young comes to mind.)

    JMHO
    fran



    http://www.hashemilaw.com/inheritance.htm

    If a person murders a relative, is he/she entitled to receive any of the victim's property? In most cases, the answer would be "no." Usually, a convicted killer cannot inherit a victim's property, even if he/she is a rightful heir or a named beneficiary.


    Required Characteristics
    To lose all rights to the dead relative's property, the criminal court will need to find that a killer:


    Intentionally murdered the person
    Was legally sane at the time of the murder
    <<<<<<<<<more at link>>>>>>>>



    http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0086.htm

    3. North Carolina allows the court to find that the person willfully and unlawfully killed or procured the killing by the preponderance of the evidence in a civil action brought within two years after the death. If a criminal proceeding is brought within the two years, the civil action can be brought within the later of two years or 90 days after a final determination by the criminal court. The burden of proof is on the party seeking to establish the killing.

    <<<<<<<<<more at link>>>>>>>>

  3. #153
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    Fran,

    You are exactly right, but BC moved assets prior to indictment, when he was legally entitled to do so, so ultimately the kids lose, again.

  4. #154
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    So the bottom line is, if the courts do not convict him, the Plantiffs will have to sue for wrongful death, unfortunately no simple solutions.
    Winning is not everything, but losing has nothing to recommend it

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by justthinking2008 View Post
    Fran,

    You are exactly right, but BC moved assets prior to indictment, when he was legally entitled to do so, so ultimately the kids lose, again.
    IMHO, a jury MAY find that it wasn't Brad's to give or assign, which COULD void any agreement with the attorneys. IMHO, that's why the attorneys moved so quickly upon the judge's ruling. Hopefully a jury will see beyond their actions and rule for the children. I trust the Rentzes have taken approporiate action against the attorneys responsible for the removal of the home contents and put a stop to them liquidating.

    You are right though, no matter what, the children have already lost.

    JMHO
    fran

    PS......FWIW, I'm not convinced Nancy did NOT have a will. The only source we have that Nancy didn't have one is Brad and he's already proven that he's not exactly reliable for telling the truth. One of Nancy's friends said she DID have a will. How hard would it be to 'shred' a will? when you're the only one with access? Hope LE looks for downloads of wills, while they're inspecting Brad and Nancy's computers..........fran

  6. #156
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    If a will for NC is or has been found that would be a smoking gun IMO. The sad thing is a civil trial can rule in favor of Plantiffs for wrongful death, but ever being able to collect is another thing, look at OJ Simpson.
    Winning is not everything, but losing has nothing to recommend it

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by justthinking2008 View Post
    Warrkat,

    I agree with you statistically the finger points directly at BC, but evidence has yet to be presented showing his guilt. I have always had the feeling we were missing something, I have been concerned that CPD had tunnel vision toward BC and did not look elsewhere. I will be glad when trial arrives and we can see and hear the "concrete" evidence, it will put my mind at ease that we have the right man. BTW, in North Carolina only spouses can be recorded at Tenants by the entirety, if the couple is not married the most common type of recordation is tenants in common, joint tenancy is not as common, neither tenants in common or joint tenants allows for survivorship only tenancy by the entirety, in some states joint tenancy has survivorship but not in NC. I checked my reference last evening and I am right regarding the tenancy by the entirety, the whole amount of real property reverted to BC at the moment of NC's death. Regarding her personal property it is all his, as she died intestate and they were legally married and not separated at the time, regardless of their plans no legal agreement had been signed. I truly hate it for the girls, but it appears that BC was totally within his rights, and probably Sasser knew that when she ruled as she did regarding his property.

    Thinking that you were mistaken about the survivorship of tenants in common, I went here http://www.rmlawgroup.com/Real/Topic...itle/index.htm to look it up. You're correct, but I thought it was kind of funny the way it is worded.

    "A common misconception about tenancy in common is that when one tenant dies, the other remaining tenants acquire the deceased tenant’s interest."

    That's me..... Miss Misconception!

    I've had a queasy feeling about this case from the beginning. It's hard to believe that LE would arrest him simply on the word of his in-laws and neighbors, but that's certainly how it sounds so far. We will probably have to wait until trial (if it comes to that) to see what they have. My concern is that if they do have the wrong person, there is still a killer out there, and valuable time has been lost in looking for that person.
    Last edited by warrkat; 11-24-2008 at 12:45 PM. Reason: spelling

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by justthinking2008 View Post
    If a will for NC is or has been found that would be a smoking gun IMO. The sad thing is a civil trial can rule in favor of Plantiffs for wrongful death, but ever being able to collect is another thing, look at OJ Simpson.
    Usually when a wrongful death suit is brought against an individual, especially if they're in jail, I believe the plaintiff believes they most likely will never collect. At the same time, they're insuring that the suspect will never profit from their crime. This would include any life insurance due upon the victim's demise.

    JMHO
    fran

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrkat View Post
    I've had a queasy feeling about this case from the beginning. It's hard to believe that LE would arrest him simply on the word of his in-laws and neighbors, but that's certainly how it sounds so far. We will probably have to wait until trial (if it comes to that) to see what they have. My concern is that if they do have the wrong person, there is still a killer out there, and valuable time has been lost in looking for that person.
    I don't think they arrested him on that 'evidence'. And - while police may arrest for flimsy things, remember the Grand Jury indicted him saying that there was enough EVIDENCE to charge him with first degree murder.

    A DA going for Murder 1 will want to be procedurally anal retentive and not hinge an entire case on hearsay.

    If they haven't arrested / indicted Jason Young on the evidence they have on him - I have to believe that there is quite a bit MORE in this case.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaleighNC View Post
    I don't think they arrested him on that 'evidence'. And - while police may arrest for flimsy things, remember the Grand Jury indicted him saying that there was enough EVIDENCE to charge him with first degree murder.

    A DA going for Murder 1 will want to be procedurally anal retentive and not hinge an entire case on hearsay.

    If they haven't arrested / indicted Jason Young on the evidence they have on him - I have to believe that there is quite a bit MORE in this case.
    I hope you're right, that they have good evidence, and that he will get a fair trial.

    Love your dog.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaleighNC View Post
    I don't think they arrested him on that 'evidence'. And - while police may arrest for flimsy things, remember the Grand Jury indicted him saying that there was enough EVIDENCE to charge him with first degree murder.

    A DA going for Murder 1 will want to be procedurally anal retentive and not hinge an entire case on hearsay.

    If they haven't arrested / indicted Jason Young on the evidence they have on him - I have to believe that there is quite a bit MORE in this case.
    Raleigh,

    I hope you are right, I have been wanting to separate fact from fiction and the truth from hearsay. I have read about the evidence in the Young case and he looks so very guilty, I have yet to see evidence in this case that will allow me to say the same, I am sure it must exist. A tighter lid has been kept on this case as opposed to the Young case one would have to think, based on what we have heard from police they have nothing, and that cannot be true or BC would not be in jail.
    Winning is not everything, but losing has nothing to recommend it

  12. #162
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    Cooper Home for Sale

    104 Wallsburg Court, the 12-room home was listed Monday on the Triangle real estate market at $349,900.

    http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4020694/

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by justthinking2008 View Post
    Raleigh,

    I hope you are right, I have been wanting to separate fact from fiction and the truth from hearsay. I have read about the evidence in the Young case and he looks so very guilty, I have yet to see evidence in this case that will allow me to say the same, I am sure it must exist. A tighter lid has been kept on this case as opposed to the Young case one would have to think, based on what we have heard from police they have nothing, and that cannot be true or BC would not be in jail.
    Different police depts in each of those cases. We have heard nothing from the Cary PD and that is on purpose--they do not ever discuss the evidence with the public...period. That's their policy, so the fact that you/we don't know exactly what they have is as designed. It protects the integrity of the case. The Wake County DA also never discusses his cases and evidence with the public, so again, until trial we'll hear nothing about the evidence. I realize that makes some people wary and left wondering if there is actually any evidence in a case, but if the DA didn't think he could prove his case in court, he wouldn't have proceeded forward. Therefore, he believes there is enough evidence (not hearsay, evidence) to win a conviction. BTW, thoughts/opinions of the family and friends is not considered evidence.

    Upon the release of the SWs in the Young case we learned they had a lot of incriminating evidence--those SWs had been sealed a lot longer than in the Cooper case.

    If you find yourself having any doubt about the way this DA operates (or just mere curiosity), I urge you to read Amanda Lamb's book, "Deadly Dose," which details the investigation and arrest of Ann Miller for poisoning her husband in 2000, and inner workings of the DA's office, including our current DA, Willoughby, and Cooper case ADA, Howard Cummings. A fascinating look at the Wake County system, and a fast read.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post

    <snip>

    Upon the release of the SWs in the Young case we learned they had a lot of incriminating evidence--those SWs had been sealed a lot longer than in the Cooper case.

    <snip>
    Therein lies the difference - in the Michelle Young case there are numerous warrants which have been released, in this case there are only enough to count on one hand. What evidence is known in the Young case has come from reading the warrants only, nothing direct from the mouth of LE. So there is no significant difference in how the two different LE departments have managed information.

    Funny how some think JY is guilty because there are a ton of warrants and can't fathom BC being guilty because only a few warrants exist. In the Young case it is obvious something is missing for the DA, perhaps in the Cooper case, nothing is missing from the DA's perspective. Enough time expired between the warrants and BC's arrest to have received forensics back, I suspect there is much less missing in the jailed one's case, hence he sits in jail.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogWood View Post
    104 Wallsburg Court, the 12-room home was listed Monday on the Triangle real estate market at $349,900.

    http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4020694/
    That didn't take long - thanks for the info. Given the current economic outlook, it may be on the market for quite some time since the order requires it to be sold at fair market value.

  16. #166
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    At $349.9K it's priced a bit lower than it might have listed otherwise, for that neighborhood, with comparable size houses, but with it's history that's not unexpected, and the price is within fair market range. IIRC in the separation paperwork they were looking to list at a target around $370K, but the market has slowed, as it has in many places.

  17. #167
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    Actually, I do not think it is priced low. That neighborhood in Lochmere is starting to age in that some of the "builder" grade roofs are soon needing replacement, the home needs exterior paint, the yard is not well-landscaped. It's "just a yard". The inside is probably nicer than the outside. That particular neighborhood has the homes built really close by each other.

    There are much more upscale neighborhoods in Lochmere. This isn't one of them.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    At $349.9K it's priced a bit lower than it might have listed otherwise, for that neighborhood, with comparable size houses, but with it's history that's not unexpected, and the price is within fair market range. IIRC in the separation paperwork they were looking to list at a target around $370K, but the market has slowed, as it has in many places.
    The house directly across the street from the Cooper house is on the market for $429,900.
    http://www.fizber.com/north-carolina...e-2073476.html

  19. #169
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    and priced too high...note that listing was opened 1/5/2008. Almost an entire year on the market.

  20. #170
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    For Lochside Glen, the home across the street from the Cooper home is priced too high, I agree. However is appears to have more of a quality facade than the Cooper home/yard. The Cooper home has one of the "crappiest" yards on the street. It could be finessed into a lovely place with the right owner who knows how to do landscaping. The view from behind the Cooper home (from the street) is ghastly. Leyland cypress trees have died, leaving gaping holes in the line of privacy trees. There are still a few dead ones.

    Obviously BC didn't do anything to make the landscaping nice, or know how, or have the money to pay someone to do it. Of course we know that he was too busy with his job, travel, school, Ironman, oh yes...and FAMILY.

  21. #171
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    Interestingly, 106 Wallsburg sold 6 months ago (when the market was much better) for only $319,000 with very similar square footage. It appears to perhaps be the same floor plan as the $429K house.

    It's quite possible that some of these home have vastly different upgrades since they were essentially tract homes from a production builder when first installed. the neighborhood can certainly support upgrading and it's probably why we're seeing pretty wide pricing differentials.

    Ultimately, though - the $429K house is going to have issues appraising, and the appraisers are driving the market due to the banks not wanting to have the loan go underwater. Now's not the time to be trying to break high price points for sales....

  22. #172
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    Wow, that's a big range of prices on that street. I suppose it depends how motivated a seller is to get things moving, along with the condition of the house, the market, etc, etc.

  23. #173
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    Master Bdr photo

    NC's master bedroom. It appears the entire home is painted in shades of gray.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain~

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by momto3kids View Post
    NC's master bedroom. It appears the entire home is painted in shades of gray.
    Good Morning Mom, and welcome back - you have been missed!

    Thanks for the pic - I don't think I care much for this shade of gray, but everyone has their own ideas.
    As I received information, and relayed it to the defendant after her arrest, she continued to claim ignorance and at times, laughed at the situation. She still failed to show any outward signs of remorse or concern for her missing two year old daughter.
    --Yuri Melich, arrest warrant, July 16, 2008

  25. #175
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    Thanks for the photo Mt3K. Interesting room.

    Star, be careful about not liking grey - you might end up with some bad karma for that opinion.

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