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View Poll Results: When will suspect(s) be named & charges brought?

Voters
96. You may not vote on this poll
  • Believe someone will be charged soon (by 6/8/09)

    6 6.25%
  • Believe LE has suspects but needs more evidence

    38 39.58%
  • Believe this will be a cold case-no suspect little evidence

    33 34.38%
  • Believe this case may never be solved - Investigation/crime scene compromised

    17 17.71%
  • Don't have an opinion

    6 6.25%
Multiple Choice Poll.

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  1. #46
    Lauren - CA's Avatar
    Lauren - CA is offline The purpose of life is a life of purpose. Robert Byrne
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPA Magnet View Post
    Thank you for your greeting and your suggestion. However, I have followed this case since last June, including, but not limited to, watching Greta's and NG's coverage in the beginning, and reading several forums such as this. Last summer I found this forum and it is clearly the best one of several I followed. The compassion and intelligence of the posters is outstanding, and it is well-moderated. I stopped following the other forums in the fall, and joined this one on 10/1. FYI, I read every post on all of the Weleetka threads here and do appreciate everyone's prior efforts very much.

    As far as Greta, it seems that she has kept the Aruba case in the forefront, even when no news was forthcoming. That's great, and some people might agree that this case could use a little more national exposure, news or no news.

    So, in the "lull" I found email addresses for NG, Greta, Mark, Geraldo, John W from AMW, and wrote them (without mentioning this forum, of course) about this case. After the holidays, I'll write more, to newspapers and others who may be able to light a fire (figuratively speaking) about this. However, I understand JBean's post the other day, and maybe I was guilty of rabble-rousing, but I never intended to start any Websleuth letter-writing campaign. Well, a letter-writing campaign, yes, but not connected to this forum. Fifty or a hundred people writing at the same time might get someone's attention quicker than just one non-local person. So I'll just do it by myself.

    I'm sorry if I ruffled anyone's feathers.

    Your final paragraph was so on-the-money. Everyone there seems so resigned to accept what happened, and that's it. End of story. Very sad for the girls.

    Anyway, thanks TG for keeping an eye on things. MC and HNY to you.
    Very well stated XPA Magnet! Hope you have a wonderful holiday season!

  2. #47
    Ruflossn's Avatar
    Ruflossn is offline "Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn.", ~ George Bernard Shaw ~
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPA Magnet View Post
    Thank you for your greeting and your suggestion. However, I have followed this case since last June, including, but not limited to, watching Greta's and NG's coverage in the beginning, and reading several forums such as this. Last summer I found this forum and it is clearly the best one of several I followed. The compassion and intelligence of the posters is outstanding, and it is well-moderated. I stopped following the other forums in the fall, and joined this one on 10/1. FYI, I read every post on all of the Weleetka threads here and do appreciate everyone's prior efforts very much.

    As far as Greta, it seems that she has kept the Aruba case in the forefront, even when no news was forthcoming. That's great, and some people might agree that this case could use a little more national exposure, news or no news.

    So, in the "lull" I found email addresses for NG, Greta, Mark, Geraldo, John W from AMW, and wrote them (without mentioning this forum, of course) about this case. After the holidays, I'll write more, to newspapers and others who may be able to light a fire (figuratively speaking) about this. However, I understand JBean's post the other day, and maybe I was guilty of rabble-rousing, but I never intended to start any Websleuth letter-writing campaign. Well, a letter-writing campaign, yes, but not connected to this forum. Fifty or a hundred people writing at the same time might get someone's attention quicker than just one non-local person. So I'll just do it by myself.

    I'm sorry if I ruffled anyone's feathers.

    Your final paragraph was so on-the-money. Everyone there seems so resigned to accept what happened, and that's it. End of story. Very sad for the girls.

    Anyway, thanks TG for keeping an eye on things. MC and HNY to you.
    Very well written! I am so glad you are on WS. Please feel free to let me know the addresses and I will also assist you in writing letters. Like you, I will not involve WS in my correspondence.

    Have a great day~

  3. #48
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    Of course we are all free to write anyone we want about anything we want as long as we do not mention WS.

  4. #49
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    Yes, I too will write sans mentioning WS. It is not about WS, it's about keeping this case in the media.

  5. #50
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    To stay on topic: this case won't be solved. Hope I'm wrong.

    A recent post politely reminded us not to organize any efforts here; however, links to newspapers in Tulsa and Oklahoma City as well as to AMW are found right here on this forum. If anyone wishes to write them in an effort to...I don't know, maybe spark a renewed media interest in this case for example, please do it of your own volition, not as a result of anyone suggesting that you consider it. Especially not me. Thanks in advance. By the way, NG and Greta are easy to find on the net.

    In one recent post, someone (?) reminded us that around Aug. 11, OSBI claimed to have logged 10,000 hours in this investigation. Estimating the average agent's salary and benefits to be around $50/hour, that's a cool $500,000 of Boots' tax dollars (oops, sorry to drag you into this!). Since I live on the east coast, there's no point in my asking, "Hey, what did they get for their half a million bucks?" If I lived in OK, though, you can bet your last dollar I'd ask the governor (also easy to find) why we spent that kind of money and got absolutely nothing in return. That's right, absolutely nothing. Example: after the GJ probe ended in early September, an OSBI spokesperson said in a telephone interview, "We don't have any suspects." Has that changed?

    Other recent posts question OSBI's refusal to seek additional help. There is a newspaper article from July 22 paraphrasing the same spokesperson that the FBI, US Marshal Service, and the Okfuskee Co. sheriff's and district attorney's offices have been working on the case (I presume she meant "working together with OSBI" but draw your own conclusion.). ATF also brought in their dogs. The same article traces the claim, that DNA not belonging to either victim was collected from the scene, to the same spokesperson. This is just an unbelievable scenario. Ballistics from two weapons, DNA, witnesses near the scene, a very small population pool, and all the top LE in the area working on it?

    Going back to the beginning of this case, just to see if I missed anything, a second look at the videos of those questioned by the GJ: these are the types of people who are outsmarting top LE?

    A second look at the spokesperson's quotes: after the release of the autopsy reports, OSBI said (in a NewsOK article Aug. 9), "It tells the public the brutality, the determination of the killer or killers, by shooting the 11-year-old eight times and Taylor five times." Oh yeah? What about OSBI's determination? Hasn't OSBI essentially left town, with one token agent remaining, still not locating any suspects or POIs? Going out on a limb here, I'd say the determination level of the OSBI doesn't stack up to the determination level of the killer(s).

    I don't recall OSBI going to court in an attempt to seal the autopsy reports. The ME had to release them, without anyone's legal protest. Thus, the unspeakable details of the girls' deaths were released to the world with OSBI's tacit approval. Then, OSBI seems to have given up on them. Adding insult to injury?

    We don't know who did it, but we do know who didn't solve it. No one owes me anything, but Skyla and Taylor deserve justice; and if not, the good people of Oklahoma deserve an explanation. So I'll keep on writing to people who may be able to help. If anyone writes back with anything encouraging, I'll share it here, in some generic way. Thanks to all for your positive comments and your continued compassion for the girls.

  6. #51
    Great post, XPA! Thank you! We will all continue trying to keep this case alive. Thank you for joining us in that pursuit!

  7. #52
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    Wow!! XPA - you really nailed this!! Excellent post and observations.

    I disagree with your first comment. "This won't be solved - hope I'm wrong"..

    I disagree, not because of the way OSBI has conducted this investigation - but, in spite of it. Seems as if the majority agree these murderers are young. Probably, drugs play a part in it - those two things alone leave me to feel that young punks will get cocky, say too much and (no thanks to LE) we will, eventually, have justice for the girls.

    I'm not, by nature, a cock-eyed optimist - but, in this case, I really want to remain hopeful that somehow, even if by accident, we will find the truth to this horrid mystery.

    Thanks again for your very thought provoking and well written post.

  8. #53
    Lauren - CA's Avatar
    Lauren - CA is offline The purpose of life is a life of purpose. Robert Byrne
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPA Magnet View Post
    To stay on topic: this case won't be solved. Hope I'm wrong.

    A recent post politely reminded us not to organize any efforts here; however, links to newspapers in Tulsa and Oklahoma City as well as to AMW are found right here on this forum. If anyone wishes to write them in an effort to...I don't know, maybe spark a renewed media interest in this case for example, please do it of your own volition, not as a result of anyone suggesting that you consider it. Especially not me. Thanks in advance. By the way, NG and Greta are easy to find on the net.

    In one recent post, someone (?) reminded us that around Aug. 11, OSBI claimed to have logged 10,000 hours in this investigation. Estimating the average agent's salary and benefits to be around $50/hour, that's a cool $500,000 of Boots' tax dollars (oops, sorry to drag you into this!). Since I live on the east coast, there's no point in my asking, "Hey, what did they get for their half a million bucks?" If I lived in OK, though, you can bet your last dollar I'd ask the governor (also easy to find) why we spent that kind of money and got absolutely nothing in return. That's right, absolutely nothing. Example: after the GJ probe ended in early September, an OSBI spokesperson said in a telephone interview, "We don't have any suspects." Has that changed?

    Other recent posts question OSBI's refusal to seek additional help. There is a newspaper article from July 22 paraphrasing the same spokesperson that the FBI, US Marshal Service, and the Okfuskee Co. sheriff's and district attorney's offices have been working on the case (I presume she meant "working together with OSBI" but draw your own conclusion.). ATF also brought in their dogs. The same article traces the claim, that DNA not belonging to either victim was collected from the scene, to the same spokesperson. This is just an unbelievable scenario. Ballistics from two weapons, DNA, witnesses near the scene, a very small population pool, and all the top LE in the area working on it?

    Going back to the beginning of this case, just to see if I missed anything, a second look at the videos of those questioned by the GJ: these are the types of people who are outsmarting top LE?

    A second look at the spokesperson's quotes: after the release of the autopsy reports, OSBI said (in a NewsOK article Aug. 9), "It tells the public the brutality, the determination of the killer or killers, by shooting the 11-year-old eight times and Taylor five times." Oh yeah? What about OSBI's determination? Hasn't OSBI essentially left town, with one token agent remaining, still not locating any suspects or POIs? Going out on a limb here, I'd say the determination level of the OSBI doesn't stack up to the determination level of the killer(s).

    I don't recall OSBI going to court in an attempt to seal the autopsy reports. The ME had to release them, without anyone's legal protest. Thus, the unspeakable details of the girls' deaths were released to the world with OSBI's tacit approval. Then, OSBI seems to have given up on them. Adding insult to injury?

    We don't know who did it, but we do know who didn't solve it. No one owes me anything, but Skyla and Taylor deserve justice; and if not, the good people of Oklahoma deserve an explanation. So I'll keep on writing to people who may be able to help. If anyone writes back with anything encouraging, I'll share it here, in some generic way. Thanks to all for your positive comments and your continued compassion for the girls.


  9. #54
    Lauren - CA's Avatar
    Lauren - CA is offline The purpose of life is a life of purpose. Robert Byrne
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    XPA, thank you for posting that. Please let us know if you do hear anything. It can't hurt.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boots-OK View Post
    Wow!! XPA - you really nailed this!! Excellent post and observations.

    I disagree with your first comment. "This won't be solved - hope I'm wrong"..

    I disagree, not because of the way OSBI has conducted this investigation - but, in spite of it. Seems as if the majority agree these murderers are young. Probably, drugs play a part in it - those two things alone leave me to feel that young punks will get cocky, say too much and (no thanks to LE) we will, eventually, have justice for the girls.

    I'm not, by nature, a cock-eyed optimist - but, in this case, I really want to remain hopeful that somehow, even if by accident, we will find the truth to this horrid mystery.

    Thanks again for your very thought provoking and well written post.
    Thank you very much. I'm just as hopeful as you are, but a lot more pessimistic. Nothing would make me happier than to come on here and apologize for my repeated criticisms. OSBI has worked very hard indeed. To untrained civilians, some of their moves may look misguided. I thought they spent too much time trying to eliminate people who didn't do it, rather than focusing on the one(s) who did it. Regardless, it seems they have given up. It is high time for an accounting of what they have found.

    Instead of retreating back to HQ and hoping no one notices, they might throw it all out there. Let the whole state see what they have. The argument of tipping off the perps (assuming more than one) can't be valid. The perps already know they did it, they know they are being sought, and they have long since disposed of guns, clothes, and maybe even a truck. They have sobered up, laid low, and know they can get away with murder if they just keep their mouths shut. They didn't outshoot six or seven ****s; they gunned down two defenseless little girls and they're not going to brag about it. They also know the heat is almost gone. A little while longer and it'll be ancient history. They're winning and they know it.

    Despite the relative lack of attention to this case, there is a lot of material on the net to read. Very little about evidence, but lots of opinions. Needless to say, the best ones are here. Some of the other forums...I think you have to fail a drug test to post. Anyway, after absorbing countless opinions and tidbits: (1) There are some very bad people in that area. Locals are terrified of them, whether they are involved or not. No one wants to stir up trouble, even the girls' families. The $30,000 reward is not nearly enough to risk life and limb, for most people. (2) The second gun might be the key. If it was a run-of-the-mill piece that everyone has or had at one time, there is no need to keep it a secret. However, if it's a unique item, one that would really narrow down the list of suspects...??? LE has a habit of not revealing some details that only the killers would know, which can be a great tool.

    But that's not working in this case. Not that LE should listen to me, but if they had the means to bump up the reward to $50K, then had the notion to let everyone see what evidence they had, they just might get what they need to close this case. We're all rooting for the good guys here but it seems like they gave up after the GJ. Since then, no effort at all (it seems). And still they maintain the same investigative tactics that have produced absolutely nothing.

    How can we be optimistic if those in charge keep plying the same ineffective methods, or worse, quit?


  11. #56
    Lauren - CA's Avatar
    Lauren - CA is offline The purpose of life is a life of purpose. Robert Byrne
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPA Magnet View Post
    Thank you very much. I'm just as hopeful as you are, but a lot more pessimistic. Nothing would make me happier than to come on here and apologize for my repeated criticisms. OSBI has worked very hard indeed. To untrained civilians, some of their moves may look misguided. I thought they spent too much time trying to eliminate people who didn't do it, rather than focusing on the one(s) who did it. Regardless, it seems they have given up. It is high time for an accounting of what they have found.

    Instead of retreating back to HQ and hoping no one notices, they might throw it all out there. Let the whole state see what they have. The argument of tipping off the perps (assuming more than one) can't be valid. The perps already know they did it, they know they are being sought, and they have long since disposed of guns, clothes, and maybe even a truck. They have sobered up, laid low, and know they can get away with murder if they just keep their mouths shut. They didn't outshoot six or seven ****s; they gunned down two defenseless little girls and they're not going to brag about it. They also know the heat is almost gone. A little while longer and it'll be ancient history. They're winning and they know it.

    Despite the relative lack of attention to this case, there is a lot of material on the net to read. Very little about evidence, but lots of opinions. Needless to say, the best ones are here. Some of the other forums...I think you have to fail a drug test to post. Anyway, after absorbing countless opinions and tidbits: (1) There are some very bad people in that area. Locals are terrified of them, whether they are involved or not. No one wants to stir up trouble, even the girls' families. The $30,000 reward is not nearly enough to risk life and limb, for most people. (2) The second gun might be the key. If it was a run-of-the-mill piece that everyone has or had at one time, there is no need to keep it a secret. However, if it's a unique item, one that would really narrow down the list of suspects...??? LE has a habit of not revealing some details that only the killers would know, which can be a great tool.

    But that's not working in this case. Not that LE should listen to me, but if they had the means to bump up the reward to $50K, then had the notion to let everyone see what evidence they had, they just might get what they need to close this case. We're all rooting for the good guys here but it seems like they gave up after the GJ. Since then, no effort at all (it seems). And still they maintain the same investigative tactics that have produced absolutely nothing.

    How can we be optimistic if those in charge keep plying the same ineffective methods, or worse, quit?
    I always wondered why the reward money wasn't "enough" to bring someone forward. You would think that since the median household income in that area is much lower than that, that it would bring someone forward. But it hasn't.

    I agree with what you have said about the second gun. If the .40 Glock wasn't unique enough, I guess the second must be. Why are they still withholding that information??

    I remember reading after the closure of the GJ that another GJ would be formed in the New Year and if no answers came from this one that hopefully it would the next round. Huh? This is a brutal, cold, senseless murder of two young girls we're talking about here.

    I agree with you, it does feel like they (OSBI) have given up. But I am hoping (and praying) that there is a reason for that. Like you said, these killers have laid low, are pretty darn close to thinking that they've gotten away with it, maybe, just maybe they will talk??

  12. #57
    "Instead of retreating back to HQ and hoping no one notices, they might throw it all out there. Let the whole state see what they have. The argument of tipping off the perps (assuming more than one) can't be valid. The perps already know they did it, they know they are being sought, and they have long since disposed of guns, clothes, and maybe even a truck. They have sobered up, laid low, and know they can get away with murder if they just keep their mouths shut. They didn't outshoot six or seven ****s; they gunned down two defenseless little girls and they're not going to brag about it. They also know the heat is almost gone. A little while longer and it'll be ancient history. They're winning and they know it."

    Excellent, XPA! That is exactly what they should do! OSBI, if you are still monitoring this site, XPA has some very good advice! Just give us what you've got!

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren - CA View Post
    I always wondered why the reward money wasn't "enough" to bring someone forward. You would think that since the median household income in that area is much lower than that, that it would bring someone forward. But it hasn't.

    I agree with what you have said about the second gun. If the .40 Glock wasn't unique enough, I guess the second must be. Why are they still withholding that information??

    I remember reading after the closure of the GJ that another GJ would be formed in the New Year and if no answers came from this one that hopefully it would the next round. Huh? This is a brutal, cold, senseless murder of two young girls we're talking about here.

    I agree with you, it does feel like they (OSBI) have given up. But I am hoping (and praying) that there is a reason for that. Like you said, these killers have laid low, are pretty darn close to thinking that they've gotten away with it, maybe, just maybe they will talk??
    Every society has a criminal undercurrent. Those people don't think like people in the mainstream do. To them, it is a badge of honor to have information and not rat other criminals out, no matter what the offense. To them, those who snitch are beneath contempt. To some, retaliation against snitches is a very noble thing.

    Suppose you can't find work or make $12K a year, in a very small community, and some of your neighbors are somewhat disreputable. You may be friendly with some of them, to keep the boat from rocking. Some of them may be involved with meth. Your own reputation may not be lily-white. You have a family, and other relatives nearby. You also have something for LE. Maybe it's a casebreaker and that $30K would be yours. By the way, it is subject to Federal income tax and maybe OK tax, too. Ballpark guess: $23K net. Don't even think about remaining anonymous, even with LE's cooperation. You collect, and the whole community will eventually find out. Buy that new car or add on that room, and you might as well paint a bull's-eye on it. For every citizen who pats you on the back or LE who winks at you, there is some derelict (and/or relative of the killers) who hates you and your whole family. $23K isn't enough to move you and your whole family several states away to safety, but $40K (net, estimate) might be, or it could provide some measure of security if you stay around the area. It's a very tough call for those who could help LE.

    Again, LE might be keeping a lid on the second gun because if someone ID's it to them, LE will know the information is accurate. But gun people know who has the odd, the unusual, the unique pieces. If LE shared the make/model, they might get a lead.

    The perps won't talk, Lauren. They know what awaits them if they get caught. Going to prison is bad enough. Baby-killers are the bottom rung in prison society. Every single day they would face the threat of violence or death from inmates who would become instant heroes forever in the inmate hierarchy.

  14. #59
    Ruflossn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPA Magnet View Post
    Every society has a criminal undercurrent. Those people don't think like people in the mainstream do. To them, it is a badge of honor to have information and not rat other criminals out, no matter what the offense. To them, those who snitch are beneath contempt. To some, retaliation against snitches is a very noble thing.

    Suppose you can't find work or make $12K a year, in a very small community, and some of your neighbors are somewhat disreputable. You may be friendly with some of them, to keep the boat from rocking. Some of them may be involved with meth. Your own reputation may not be lily-white. You have a family, and other relatives nearby. You also have something for LE. Maybe it's a casebreaker and that $30K would be yours. By the way, it is subject to Federal income tax and maybe OK tax, too. Ballpark guess: $23K net. Don't even think about remaining anonymous, even with LE's cooperation. You collect, and the whole community will eventually find out. Buy that new car or add on that room, and you might as well paint a bull's-eye on it. For every citizen who pats you on the back or LE who winks at you, there is some derelict (and/or relative of the killers) who hates you and your whole family. $23K isn't enough to move you and your whole family several states away to safety, but $40K (net, estimate) might be, or it could provide some measure of security if you stay around the area. It's a very tough call for those who could help LE.

    Again, LE might be keeping a lid on the second gun because if someone ID's it to them, LE will know the information is accurate. But gun people know who has the odd, the unusual, the unique pieces. If LE shared the make/model, they might get a lead.

    The perps won't talk, Lauren. They know what awaits them if they get caught. Going to prison is bad enough. Baby-killers are the bottom rung in prison society. Every single day they would face the threat of violence or death from inmates who would become instant heroes forever in the inmate hierarchy.
    XPA~
    Your explanantion is fabulous.
    I am not sure where you came form, but, I sure am glad you came to this forum/thread.

    Flossie

  15. #60
    Lauren - CA's Avatar
    Lauren - CA is offline The purpose of life is a life of purpose. Robert Byrne
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    Baby-killers are the bottom rung in prison society.

    You'd think they would be in the "real world" too, huh?

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