View Poll Results: What day do you believe KC disposed of Caylee's body?

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  • on day of death (June 15-June 17)

    53 8.62%
  • June 18

    112 18.21%
  • June 19

    114 18.54%
  • after June 19

    336 54.63%
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Thread: Poll: Date of body disposal?

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfrohning View Post
    I remember reading somewhere in the inviewing that someone thought they seem her jogging. I search can not find might been in texts. Does anyone remember reading this?
    I remember that. When she called AL because she ran out of gas in a nearby subdivision, he picked her up running on Chickasaw Trail. That was on June 23.
    I also think someone else saw her jogging on Chickasaw at some point. It may have been Troy B? When he called and asked her if she had been running there, she said no.
    I read somewhere that she did often jog, and I wonder if she ran on Chickasaw between her house and Lee's.

  2. #127
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    Here is what I think (today, anyway):

    June 15: Visitation at nursing home, argument with Cindy, murder of Caylee. I do not believe CA tucked them into bed that night.

    June 16: KC moves in with TL - no Caylee in sight. (I believe the body was wrapped in the garbage bags it was eventually discovered in) and placed in a cooler in the back of the car with ice. This also happens to be the day KC is filmed renting movies with TL.

    June 17: At this point, KC is starting to tell people her car has 'broken down' and she is seen driving TL's jeep (for three days - from June 17 - June 19th). She doesn't want to drive around town in the car with her garbage-bagged daughters body in a cooler in the trunk. This day is critical, however, because the neighbor (Brian B - who is home on vacation from 6/17 -6/21) sees KC back her car into the garage for the first time. IMHO it was to refresh the ice in the cooler. Interestingly enough, this is the day that the real ZG visited the Sawgrass apartments.

    June 18: KC borrows a shovel from the vacationing BB at 1:30 pm. KC returns the shovel at 2:30 pm wearing the same clothes, and the shovel is not dirty. Weather for that day - heavy rain. I think she borrowed that shovel with the intention of burying the now-three-day-old body, but due to the weather and her nerves, she chickened out.

    June 19: KC and Tony meet about leasing an apartment together. KC does not have her ID - left in the car with the cooler and her daughter's body??? hmmmm....

    June 20: Car backed into the garage for the third time - again heavy rain. She had run out of gas, and AL had to take her to get the gas cans. Heavy rain again. Where the heck is the car when she isn't backing it into the garage??? Where was she parking it?? I think she had to keep backing it into the garage in order to replace and refresh the ice in the cooler. I think the cadaver dog hit in the back yard is where she dumped the ice/melted water from the cooler. I believe this is the day she dumped the body. It was raining and she was getting tired of removing the melted water from the cooler. I think the melted water is what eventually ended up stinking in the carpet of the trunk. Additionally, the cell phone pings indicate that she was close to the Anthony house from 1:44 pm until 2:18 pm that day. Before and after those times, she was near AL's apartment.

    In summary - body dumped between 1:44 pm and 2:18 pm on June 20th.

  3. #128
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    I believe it had to be the 19th or 20th IMO...I can't understand why people think it was as late as the 24th...the body farm info says at some point, something was left in the trunk to decompose, and when it was at approx 2.6 days decomp, it was removed from the trunk...so if the body was dumped as late as the 24th, your looking at a DOD of 6/21...when she was not at the A's at all, so this totally changes the crime scene...also, if that's the case, where is Caylee from 6/16 to 6/21 when no one sees her and there is no way a child survives in a car trunk for five days in Florida???? Plus, after the 20, she's not shovel borrowing anymore, not pulling in backwards anymore, not at the A's from 2-4 as she was every other day that week...it's a marked change in behavior which indicates to me that she's already disposed of the body...disposal on the 19 or 20 does gel better with body farm evidence if DOD was 6/16, which is the last day anyone sees her alive...

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish_Eyes View Post
    I believe it had to be the 19th or 20th IMO...I can't understand why people think it was as late as the 24th...the body farm info says at some point, something was left in the trunk to decompose, and when it was at approx 2.6 days decomp, it was removed from the trunk...so if the body was dumped as late as the 24th, your looking at a DOD of 6/21...when she was not at the A's at all, so this totally changes the crime scene...also, if that's the case, where is Caylee from 6/16 to 6/21 when no one sees her and there is no way a child survives in a car trunk for five days in Florida???? Plus, after the 20, she's not shovel borrowing anymore, not pulling in backwards anymore, not at the A's from 2-4 as she was every other day that week...it's a marked change in behavior which indicates to me that she's already disposed of the body...disposal on the 19 or 20 does gel better with body farm evidence if DOD was 6/16, which is the last day anyone sees her alive...
    Caylee killed 16th and in trunk. Decomposition for 2-3 days (19th) then wrapped and bagged which stopped decomposition gases and fluids leaking into trunk.
    Dumped after near miss with GA and Gas Cans. 24th
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  5. #130
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    I know some people say that it doesn't make sense that the trunk still smelled on July 15 if she dumped the body early, but supposedly, the car STILL smelled when JB's team was allowed to inspect it and that was quite a while later...so either way, 20 or 24, the car still smelled for a long long time...

    Also, do you really think she was wrapped that airtight that no fluids or gasses leaked out after 2.6 days? Didn't the skull fall out when the meter reader nudged the bag? That would seem to suggest it wasn't wrapped terribly tightly and certainly not airtight...

    Finally, something I'm just wondering about...The body farm report first states there was pizza in the trunk, then corrects itself to say there was not pizza...we know there was a pizza box...In the first report, it states that the pizza in the trunk would have been decomposing aerobically... I thought that odd...I just assumed being in the trunk itself meant something would be decomposing anaerobically, but apparently there must still be enough oxygen in a trunk for aerobic decomposition to occur...The report states that an anaerobically decomposing human was in the trunk at the stage of 2.6 days decomp...This would mean that the body had to be in the garbage back for most of those 2.6 days to be decomposing anaerobically...also that the leaked fluids were transfered to the trunk at the 2.6 day point and not later or they would show a higher level of decomp...this probably happened when she moved the body...

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish_Eyes View Post
    I know some people say that it doesn't make sense that the trunk still smelled on July 15 if she dumped the body early, but supposedly, the car STILL smelled when JB's team was allowed to inspect it and that was quite a while later...so either way, 20 or 24, the car still smelled for a long long time...

    Also, do you really think she was wrapped that airtight that no fluids or gasses leaked out after 2.6 days? Didn't the skull fall out when the meter reader nudged the bag? That would seem to suggest it wasn't wrapped terribly tightly and certainly not airtight...

    Finally, something I'm just wondering about...The body farm report first states there was pizza in the trunk, then corrects itself to say there was not pizza...we know there was a pizza box...In the first report, it states that the pizza in the trunk would have been decomposing aerobically... I thought that odd...I just assumed being in the trunk itself meant something would be decomposing anaerobically, but apparently there must still be enough oxygen in a trunk for aerobic decomposition to occur...The report states that an anaerobically decomposing human was in the trunk at the stage of 2.6 days decomp...This would mean that the body had to be in the garbage back for most of those 2.6 days to be decomposing anaerobically...also that the leaked fluids were transfered to the trunk at the 2.6 day point and not later or they would show a higher level of decomp...this probably happened when she moved the body...
    Plenty of the really clever chaps here say 19th or 20th and I can see the arguement for that. My guess that it was 24th is because KC was only 1 min away from the dump site and she was obviously very worried about her father getting anywhere near her car's trunk.

    I have found stuff about aerobic etc. My reading is that of the 5 critical chemicals found, 4 appear in both aerobic and anaerobic decomp.
    A test compariason of mushroom and pepperoni pizza was done by placing in original box and left to decompose aerobically.
    Also some discussion of Fluorides being more readily produced in deprived oxygen conditions, but fluorides were not an important factor in this case. Hypothesised that a child will not have absorbed enough fluorides.

    There is quite a bit of oxygen in a car trunk and not sealed airtight to the outside or the rest of the car. There were live flies in there and I am sure they required oxygen to survive

    I manage to seal our household garbage every week. Smell and liquid tight. I wouldn't expect it to still be intact after 6 months outside in all weather including hurricanes.
    Last edited by Rumpole; 01-02-2009 at 08:11 AM. Reason: Found a little more info.
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  7. #132
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    I think the 2.6 day decomposition estimate may be skewed because the decomposition could have been delayed by the body being on ice. I think KC freaked out about GA going near the trunk because KC new there was a stain in there and it WAS starting to smell bad, and she just didn't want Georgia to ask what the smell was and/or what the stain was from. Even in the absence of the body, the stain was enough to cause the steadily increasing horrible smell. Why else did KC back the car into the garage on three seperate days? What was she doing in the garage? Looking back over the timeline, I have another question. The car was first backed into the garage on June 17th. The documents indicate she was driving TL's jeep on June 17, 18, and 19 because her car was supposedly broken down. Where was it when it wasn't parked at the Anthony house??

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reannan View Post
    Here is what I think (today, anyway):

    June 15: Visitation at nursing home, argument with Cindy, murder of Caylee. I do not believe CA tucked them into bed that night.

    June 16: KC moves in with TL - no Caylee in sight. (I believe the body was wrapped in the garbage bags it was eventually discovered in) and placed in a cooler in the back of the car with ice. This also happens to be the day KC is filmed renting movies with TL.

    June 17: At this point, KC is starting to tell people her car has 'broken down' and she is seen driving TL's jeep (for three days - from June 17 - June 19th). She doesn't want to drive around town in the car with her garbage-bagged daughters body in a cooler in the trunk. This day is critical, however, because the neighbor (Brian B - who is home on vacation from 6/17 -6/21) sees KC back her car into the garage for the first time. IMHO it was to refresh the ice in the cooler. Interestingly enough, this is the day that the real ZG visited the Sawgrass apartments.

    June 18: KC borrows a shovel from the vacationing BB at 1:30 pm. KC returns the shovel at 2:30 pm wearing the same clothes, and the shovel is not dirty. Weather for that day - heavy rain. I think she borrowed that shovel with the intention of burying the now-three-day-old body, but due to the weather and her nerves, she chickened out.

    June 19: KC and Tony meet about leasing an apartment together. KC does not have her ID - left in the car with the cooler and her daughter's body??? hmmmm....

    June 20: Car backed into the garage for the third time - again heavy rain. She had run out of gas, and AL had to take her to get the gas cans. Heavy rain again. Where the heck is the car when she isn't backing it into the garage??? Where was she parking it?? I think she had to keep backing it into the garage in order to replace and refresh the ice in the cooler. I think the cadaver dog hit in the back yard is where she dumped the ice/melted water from the cooler. I believe this is the day she dumped the body. It was raining and she was getting tired of removing the melted water from the cooler. I think the melted water is what eventually ended up stinking in the carpet of the trunk. Additionally, the cell phone pings indicate that she was close to the Anthony house from 1:44 pm until 2:18 pm that day. Before and after those times, she was near AL's apartment.

    In summary - body dumped between 1:44 pm and 2:18 pm on June 20th.
    this is a really feasible theory to me (today anyway like you said). Was there ever a cooler found in connection with Casey? Was this her JC Penny purchase? i am thinking a cooler with wheels like you take to the beach.
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  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish_Eyes View Post
    I believe it had to be the 19th or 20th IMO...I can't understand why people think it was as late as the 24th...the body farm info says at some point, something was left in the trunk to decompose, and when it was at approx 2.6 days decomp, it was removed from the trunk...so if the body was dumped as late as the 24th, your looking at a DOD of 6/21...when she was not at the A's at all, so this totally changes the crime scene...also, if that's the case, where is Caylee from 6/16 to 6/21 when no one sees her and there is no way a child survives in a car trunk for five days in Florida???? Plus, after the 20, she's not shovel borrowing anymore, not pulling in backwards anymore, not at the A's from 2-4 as she was every other day that week...it's a marked change in behavior which indicates to me that she's already disposed of the body...disposal on the 19 or 20 does gel better with body farm evidence if DOD was 6/16, which is the last day anyone sees her alive...
    -------------------------------------------------

    My thought, if everyone believes G.A. story regarding the 24th that K.A. came to the house and threw the cans at him this would make sense to me. G.A. said that he got within 3 ft of the car at the tow yard and smelled the car. If you believe his story regarding the 24th he made no mention of the car smelling. That leads me to believe that Caylee died on the 16th. K.A. had to have her in the backyard for at least a day, maybe in the sandbox, for the dogs to hit in the area. She came back to the house on the 17th and borrowed the shovel. Put Caylee in the trunk and possibly placed her at the park where her cell phone pings. On the 24th she got nervous after being confronted by G.A. regarding Caylee and went back to where she had placed the body. She put her in the trunk and Caylee was there until the 27th. K.A. placed her in the area Caylee's body was found, went to the A's home, got groceries, dumped the car and call T.L. to come and get her. Makes sense as A.H. said K.A. started talking to her about the smell in the car. If G.A. isn't telling the truth, then she probably left her in the trunk for 3 days and the smell got so bad, that she finally decided where to put her and dumped her body on the 19th or 20th.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerFan View Post
    -------------------------------------------------

    My thought, if everyone believes G.A. story regarding the 24th that K.A. came to the house and threw the cans at him this would make sense to me. G.A. said that he got within 3 ft of the car at the tow yard and smelled the car. If you believe his story regarding the 24th he made no mention of the car smelling. That leads me to believe that Caylee died on the 16th. K.A. had to have her in the backyard for at least a day, maybe in the sandbox, for the dogs to hit in the area. She came back to the house on the 17th and borrowed the shovel. Put Caylee in the trunk and possibly placed her at the park where her cell phone pings. On the 24th she got nervous after being confronted by G.A. regarding Caylee and went back to where she had placed the body. She put her in the trunk and Caylee was there until the 27th. K.A. placed her in the area Caylee's body was found, went to the A's home, got groceries, dumped the car and call T.L. to come and get her. Makes sense as A.H. said K.A. started talking to her about the smell in the car. If G.A. isn't telling the truth, then she probably left her in the trunk for 3 days and the smell got so bad, that she finally decided where to put her and dumped her body on the 19th or 20th.
    There were 3 weeks between 24th June and 15th July. Smell much worse.

    In your timeline when did KC go back to Tony's to get a bag of his rubbish?
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  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hercule Poirot View Post
    There were 3 weeks between 24th June and 15th July. Smell much worse.

    In your timeline when did KC go back to Tony's to get a bag of his rubbish?
    -------------------------------------------

    K.C. stayed with T.L. the week of 22-28. I would think it would have been one of those mornings during that week
    that she put the trash in her trunk. Maybe someone has the answer to that question.

  12. #137
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    I think the park as a potential dump site at one point is a definite possibility, as she kept telling LE that is one of the places ZG frequented with Caylee. The cooler theory is a good one. Is it possible that the cooler itself was dumped in a dumpster near the park?

    I think Caylee was dumped the 1st time around the 20th. KC got nervious, took some garbage bags, and retrieved Caylee very soon thereafter and dumped her in the last location on the 24th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hercule Poirot View Post
    There were 3 weeks between 24th June and 15th July. Smell much worse.

    In your timeline when did KC go back to Tony's to get a bag of his rubbish?
    I believe the body was stored in a cooler in the trunk of her car on June 17, 18, and 19 because that was when her car had supposedly broken down, and she drove Tony's jeep those three days. We know her car wasn't broken down however, because the neighbor saw her on the 18th back her car into the garage for the first time. If she was driving Tony's jeep those three days, she probably got the bag of trash during one of those days. I can't figure out why she got his trash, and why she placed it in the trunk of her car - unless she also got a cooler from Tony?? Ideas??

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hercule Poirot View Post
    There were 3 weeks between 24th June and 15th July. Smell much worse.

    In your timeline when did KC go back to Tony's to get a bag of his rubbish?
    I believe the body was stored in a cooler in the trunk of her car on June 17, 18, and 19 because that was when her car had supposedly broken down, and she drove Tony's jeep those three days. We know her car wasn't broken down however, because the neighbor saw her on the 18th back her car into the garage for the first time. If she was driving Tony's jeep those three days, she probably got the bag of trash during one of those days. I can't figure out why she got his trash, and why she placed it in the trunk of her car - unless she also got a cooler from Tony?? Ideas??
    Last edited by Reannan; 01-02-2009 at 09:56 PM.

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hercule Poirot View Post
    There were 3 weeks between 24th June and 15th July. Smell much worse.

    In your timeline when did KC go back to Tony's to get a bag of his rubbish?
    I believe the body was stored in a cooler in the trunk of her car on June 17, 18, and 19 because that was when her car had supposedly broken down, and she drove Tony's jeep those three days. We know her car wasn't broken down however, because the neighbor saw her on the 18th back her car into the garage for the first time. If she was driving Tony's jeep those three days, she probably got the bag of trash during one of those days. I can't figure out why she got his trash, and why she placed it in the trunk of her car - unless she also got a cooler from Tony?? Ideas??

  16. #141
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    I have asked the following elsewhere but it is very relevant to what KC did with the body and the date of disposal.

    CA in interview with Greta describes moving a plant in the back garden. That act might provide 2 spots where recent digging is covered up/explained.

    The excuse given for the "landscaping" is so that the pool equipment box can be moved away from the pool. Worried that Caylee might climb up and fall in pool.
    But.........
    The equipment box was still next to the pool during the interviews and still there in a photo taken around that time.

    It would be very helpful if somebody has info of when the Landscaping was done.
    CA says a couple of weeks prior, so between when Caylee went missing and KC's arrest
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  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hercule Poirot View Post
    Plenty of the really clever chaps here say 19th or 20th and I can see the arguement for that. My guess that it was 24th is because KC was only 1 min away from the dump site and she was obviously very worried about her father getting anywhere near her car's trunk.

    I have found stuff about aerobic etc. My reading is that of the 5 critical chemicals found, 4 appear in both aerobic and anaerobic decomp.
    A test compariason of mushroom and pepperoni pizza was done by placing in original box and left to decompose aerobically.
    Also some discussion of Fluorides being more readily produced in deprived oxygen conditions, but fluorides were not an important factor in this case. Hypothesised that a child will not have absorbed enough fluorides.

    There is quite a bit of oxygen in a car trunk and not sealed airtight to the outside or the rest of the car. There were live flies in there and I am sure they required oxygen to survive

    I manage to seal our household garbage every week. Smell and liquid tight. I wouldn't expect it to still be intact after 6 months outside in all weather including hurricanes.
    Food for thought...thanks, hp!

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reannan View Post
    I believe the body was stored in a cooler in the trunk of her car on June 17, 18, and 19 because that was when her car had supposedly broken down, and she drove Tony's jeep those three days. We know her car wasn't broken down however, because the neighbor saw her on the 18th back her car into the garage for the first time. If she was driving Tony's jeep those three days, she probably got the bag of trash during one of those days. I can't figure out why she got his trash, and why she placed it in the trunk of her car - unless she also got a cooler from Tony?? Ideas??
    Why introduce a "cooler" that we have no information about? Did KC buy it? What evidence? Did the A's already have it? What evidence? Where is it now? Do the A's have an industrial ice-maker to keep supplying it? Was KC buying several sacks of ice? No evidence of that.

    If you had a tank, larger than Caylee sized, full of water(melted ice) you could not easily lift it off the ground. Maneuvering it in an out of a trunk probably impossible, certainly impractical.

    It seems likely to me that the bag of Tony's rubbish was placed in the trunk after the body was gone, but with the smell still getting worse, to cover up/provide an excuse for the smell. Similarly KC left the car near a dumpster on purpose to provide an excuse for the smell.
    The time line I questioned had the body being dumped 27th and then driving to Amscot. No mention of going to AL's to get rubbish and that did not happen.
    Last edited by Rumpole; 01-02-2009 at 07:35 PM. Reason: More thoughts
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    There is absolutely no evidence of a cooler being used anywhere - it is the only explanation I can think of to explain why the body wasn't smelling so horrible between the 15th and 20th that the whole neighborhood smelled it! I have also never been comfortable with the thought of KC leaving Caylee's body in the back yard. That just seems too risky to me. We know the cadaver dogs hit in the back yard, but LE investigated that yard thoroughly, and they found no evidence of any grave being dug, or even an attempt to dig a grave. If ice and melted water which had been in contact with a dead body had been dumped out of a cooler in the back yard, it would be an explanation for the cadaver dog hit in the yard.

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reannan View Post
    There is absolutely no evidence of a cooler being used anywhere - it is the only explanation I can think of to explain why the body wasn't smelling so horrible between the 15th and 20th that the whole neighborhood smelled it! I have also never been comfortable with the thought of KC leaving Caylee's body in the back yard. That just seems too risky to me. We know the cadaver dogs hit in the back yard, but LE investigated that yard thoroughly, and they found no evidence of any grave being dug, or even an attempt to dig a grave. If ice and melted water which had been in contact with a dead body had been dumped out of a cooler in the back yard, it would be an explanation for the cadaver dog hit in the yard.
    You don't think watering the gaden daily with 20 gal of corpse water would smell a bit? KC would probably need 2 strong blokes to lift the tank in and out of the trunk and They would have to fish a corpse out of it each time.
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  21. #146
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    I don't think that KC moved her body to different locations. I think that she did the easy thing she could do. I think that she put her in the sandbox to begin with. on the 16th She was worried that someone would be in the backyard possibly with the dogs, so she knew that she had to move her. especially before the weekend came. On the 19th or 20th she put her in double trash bags and put her in the trunk. She didn't think about the smell, until it started to stink. She tried to seal the opening with duct tape, so it would cut down on the smell. Either right after that or on the 24th she went to the dump site and threw her out, but the bag leaked, thus the stain. Didn't LE say that they knew what position that she was laying in the trunk?

    It was probably wrapped tight, but the critters and flood waters ripped the bag to pieces.

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    I don't think that KC moved her body to different locations. I think that she did the easy thing she could do. I think that she put her in the sandbox to begin with. on the 16th She was worried that someone would be in the backyard possibly with the dogs, so she knew that she had to move her. especially before the weekend came. On the 19th or 20th she put her in double trash bags and put her in the trunk. She didn't think about the smell, until it started to stink. She tried to seal the opening with duct tape, so it would cut down on the smell. Either right after that or on the 24th she went to the dump site and threw her out, but the bag leaked, thus the stain. Didn't LE say that they knew what position that she was laying in the trunk?

    It was probably wrapped tight, but the critters and flood waters ripped the bag to pieces.

  23. #148
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    I think she was killed around the 15th 16th of June and then buried for a few days in the backyard. She was then held in the trunk for a few days until casey disposed of her, possibly on June 24, 2008.
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    I believe she died on the 16th and she temp. put her in the backyard, I believe she had to be in the trunk on the 19th for the decomp fluid to spill (2.6), and than she was put into the bag or bags and possibly taped up. I think she may have sprayed her with pesticide to try to kill the maggots. Which would explain why LE to Pesticide from the home. I think the body was in the car for at least a week because the smell seemed to be so strong weeks later. I still think it was the 27th the day she abandoned the car, because she told AH she finally got rid of the squirrel smell that day. I think she than left the car at the amscott because she new ToNe needed a ride to the airport and there was no way she was going to take him in that car with the smell, but on the 30th as soon as she drops him off at the airport she is getting AH to buy her a gas can so she can go get her car, but it was too late. Car had already been towed away.

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    I strongly believe Caylee died on the 15th/16th of June. There is no way that tash bags alone would have kept the smell contained whether the body was in the sand box or the trunk of the car. No way. I KNOW this for a fact. I work in health care - Pathology to be exact. In hospital situations, we don't deal with dead bodies that are very "old". As soon as someone dies in the hospital, they are placed in a cooler in the morque, and everything is pretty much fine until they start to warm up, but we don't let that happen. The funeral home comes, and they have their own means of controlling the situation. We had an elderly lady that had fallen into a large trash container off of her deck as she was emptying trash, and she died, only to be found a day latter. For some reason, they brought the body to us at the hospital. The morque is located on the first floor of the hospital. Before we could get the body into a cooler, the odor was so strong that you could smell it for a few days- on the second floor of the hospital in some offices....even after the body was removed. Unmistakable odor that you will never forget or mistake for anything else. For those who are not faint of heart, look at this link for an hour to hour, and day to day description (some with pictures) of what happens after death:
    http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Death/Stages.html

    This is what KC was dealing with.......

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