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Thread: WA - Two UID Green River Killer Victims (97UFWA & 98UFWA) - 1984-2003

  1. #1
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    WA - Two UID Green River Killer Victims (97UFWA & 98UFWA) - 1984-2003

    Gary Ridgway may have begun his spree as the Green River Killer in the 1970s -- years earlier than thought, a veteran investigator said Monday.

    That could mean Ridgway has even more victims.

    King County investigator Tom Jensen said that if the woman known in court papers as Jane Doe "B20" was killed in the 1970s, "it could open up a whole new range of people" Ridgway might have killed.

    Green River investigators are now asking for the public's help in identifying the woman, one of four Ridgway has admitted killing but whose remains so far have remained unidentified. Ridgway pleaded guilty in November 2003 to killing 48 women.

    Scientists concluded that the woman's body was dumped at the site 10 to 30 years ago -- but they believe it much more likely, Jensen said, that her remains had been there for close to 30 years, making her a victim in the 1970s.

    Jensen said that from Ridgway's recollections and other evidence, investigators believe that the woman was 16 to 26 years old when she was killed, that she was Caucasian or of mixed race, had a thin or medium build and had shoulder-length light brown hair but few other distinguishing features.

    Jensen also said he believed that the unidentified woman may not have been a prostitute -- a deviation from Ridgway's pattern that could explain why he's been reluctant to explain more about the killing.

    Yet during his hours of interviews with detectives in 2003, Ridgway admitted that it was "very possible" he had killed women in the 1970s while living in Maple Valley with his second wife, according to King County prosecutors.

    "Even after rigorous interrogation and a review of potentially relevant cases," prosecutors wrote, "Ridgway's first homicide(s) remain unknown."

    In a video recording of an interview detectives conducted with Ridgway on Sept. 2, 2003, Ridgway said he believed he killed the woman investigators are now trying to identify in 1982 or 1983. But he also told investigators he could have killed her in the 1970s.

    He killed her, he said, after picking her up somewhere on Pacific Highway South, then bringing her home.

    He said he then brought her the next day to a spot near the Kent-Des Moines Road, just east of Military Road South, and buried her, naked, after digging a makeshift grave with a shovel. Ridgway said he believed she was 16 to 20 years old.
    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...enriver09.html
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 04-08-2013 at 09:58 PM.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

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    When Green River killer Gary L. Ridgway was sentenced to life imprisonment in 2003 for the murders of 48 Seattle-area women, four of his victims were identified only as "Jane Doe."

    Yesterday, more than 1- years later, investigators made a plea to the public to help identify the four victims, known only as bones 10, 16, 17 and 20. They are asking individuals who may know about people who went missing in King County in the 1970s and 1980s to contact them.

    However, in the case of "Bones 20," investigators say they believe that the woman's remains could be as much as 30 years old, making this Ridgway's first-known victim and putting her slaying outside the time frame that Ridgway gave for his killing spree, said Jensen. Forensic anthropologists estimate that she was between 16 and 26 years old when she died.

    However, investigators cannot be certain of the date of her death she may have been killed as late as 1993 or as early as 1973, said Jensen.

    If Ridgway had begun killing in the '70s rather than in 1982, there are other remains from that time period to which he could be tied, said Jensen. Furthermore, he added, it brings into question the legitimacy of what he told investigators over six months of interrogation.

    If police could build a case around new victims, Ridgway could be tried for additional murders, said John Urquhart, King County sheriff's spokesman.

    Even if a person had been reported missing, it's possible that those records have been purged, especially if that missing person was a teen runaway, said Jensen. When the missing teen turned 18, the record was erased because that person was an adult.

    Other missing persons' records were simply erased after six or seven years of inactivity, Jensen said.
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...nriver09m.html
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

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    Ridgeway's Kill Count...

    While it is certainly possible that Ridgeway started killing earlier than he stated, or earlier than his first known victim, you have to consider two things that might argue against that. The first is that Ridgeway, once caught and nailed by hard evidence on a few of the killings, was persuaded to confess to ALL of his killings in exchange for a Life sentence. This means that IF another murder could be discovered and proven conclusively to have been committed by Ridgeway, that he would be elligible for the Death penalty for that one. The second consideration is that Ridgeway is a serial killer, and at this point in his life wants his "score" to be accurate for the record. In some cases, serial killers have "confessed" to murders that they did not commit - and that would be a more likely scenario than confessing to 48 and leaving out others.

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    In the case of "Bones 20" or B-20 this article says they were found in August 2003

    http://www.kirotv.com/greenrivermurders/2630157/detail.html


    I am assuming this is her, update from the Doe Network
    http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/found.html


    Marie Annette Malvar
    Marie Malvar was last seen on April 30, 1983 in Seattle, WA. Her skeletal remains were located and identified in September 2003. She may have been a victim of the Green River Killer.

    Marie Malvar was 18 years of age and was last seen getting into a truck at a 7-11 store at South 216th Street and Pacific Highway South.

    Her body was found September 27, 2003 in the 29200 block of 65th Avenue South.

    So her bones were 20 years old.


    There are still 4 unidentified bodies that have been found that are thought to be killed by the Green River Killer.

    1) Died before May 1983 - White
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/97ufwa.html

    2) Died Dec 1980-Jan 1984 - no race indicated
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/98ufwa.html

    3) Died unknown-thought to be 1983 - White (ModNote: ID'd as Angela Marie Girdner)
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/100ufor.html

    4) Died 1984-Black (ModNote: ID'd as Sandra Denise Major)
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/99ufwa.html


    There are 9 woman that may, or may not, be linked to the Green River Killer. Once identified, they may match some of the remains which were found. Authorities are trying to find their real names or locate them.

    http://www.metrokc.gov/sheriff/news/green_river/know/


    There are 4 women who are missing who's cases have been linked to the Green River Killer.

    http://www.metrokc.gov/sheriff/news/...still_missing/


    To read the whole story, including photos of the located/identified victims

    http://www.metrokc.gov/sheriff/news/...hotos_victims/
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 04-05-2013 at 11:32 PM.

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    My understanding is that they're trying to pin more on him because his "SWEETHEART DEAL" only includes the 49 he plead too. IF they can confirm other murders, they want to seek the death penalty. Which is the LEAST he should get.

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    What do you think about photo 4 at http://www.metrokc.gov/sheriff/news/green_river/know/ and http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/100ufor.html? They resemble each other to me

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    Photo #4 on left, Jane Doe on Right

    2Sisters they do indeed look like each other, and I suspect the authorities think they are the same person. Both have been identified as possible victims of the Green River Killer.

    Problem is they don't know the identity of either person. In the first case, Photo #4 they know there was a girl going by the name Angel or Angela. They are trying to find out who she actually was - as in her real name. If they do that, they can they try to match that ID to the body of Jane Doe (sadly that is going to be tough... did you read about what happened to the body?).



    Its the same story for this case:
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/99ufwa.html


    Photo #6 on left, and Jane Doe on right

    Again both victims are identified as possible victims of the Green River Killer. It addition their height matches. Photo #6 may go by the name Patricia. Is Jane Doe Patricia too?
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 04-05-2013 at 11:35 PM.

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    Sadly, there probably isn't much family out there looking for these girls. There could be but more than likely they were estranged from family. If girl #4 is the Jane Doe from Oregon and then he could get the death penalty in theory b/c he has no deal with the authorities there right?
    Yes, I read that the remains were lost so I'm guessing that means she won't ever be IDed? Sadly that was they was the case with a couple Ted Bundy victims as well.

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    I don't know how the deal was worded.... so I don't know if they could prosecute him after an ID would be made.

    They do have partial fingerprints so maybe that would be enough???? Don't know.

    It would be nice if SOMEONE who knew these girls would come forward. It doesn't have to be family. Maybe a friend? A former teacher? A store owner that cashed a check because they knew the girl from the neighborhood? Even a former boyfriend! Just point the authorities in the right direction and they WILL check it out! These girls were part of society. Someone DOES know them.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PonderingThings
    I don't know how the deal was worded.... so I don't know if they could prosecute him after an ID would be made.

    They do have partial fingerprints so maybe that would be enough???? Don't know.

    It would be nice if SOMEONE who knew these girls would come forward. It doesn't have to be family. Maybe a friend? A former teacher? A store owner that cashed a check because they knew the girl from the neighborhood? Even a former boyfriend! Just point the authorities in the right direction and they WILL check it out! These girls were part of society. Someone DOES know them.
    I personally know that they're actively seeking to pin another murder onhim to get the death penalty. I can't believe there wasn't more uproar when they gave him the sweetheart deal of life in prison....

    but it was agreed upon with Ridgway that he confesses to the 49 WITHOUT getting further / future preference for anyother crimes NOT DISCLOSED TO HIM. It was to get him to close the books on as many as possible. The problem with him is that his 'memory' wasn't great. He couldn't remember many names OR even their faces when it came to determining how many he killed. Even he has admitted that it's probably far more than whats on the books. Theres probably MANY missing prostitutes that are not officially considered dead, just missing.....

    Its a horror show all around.

  11. #11
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    One of the very things that attracts a serial killer to prostitutes is because no one (including LE) pays attention. They go missing, it is assumed that they met a man or moved on somewhere, and that is that. Thus they can keep on killing without suspicion. Unless or until bodies start showing up, no one notices, often they are never reported missing.
    In Vancouver,
    Pickton killed more than 60, and there was a public outcry, before LE would even look at it. Even then, they tried to put it off. Many families were also slow to report them missing....there were a couple victims the LE had to track down the families to ask them to complete the missing reports.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

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    WA - Three Unidentified Green River Killer Victims - 1984-2003

    Unidentified Female
    BODY FOUND: 3/21/1984
    DOB:
    APPROXIMATE AGE: 12-15
    HEIGHT: 5'2"-5'9"
    WEIGHT:
    HAIR:
    EYES:
    RACE: White</STRONG>

    CONTACT: Detective Tom Jensen
    King County Sheriff's Office
    Major Crimes Unit
    Green River Homicides Investigation
    206-296-7530
    Thomas.Jensen@kingcounty.gov
    SUMMARY: White female 12-15 years of age. 5 2 5 9, possibly left handed, crooked and overlapping front teeth.These remains were found 03-21-84 at South 146 and 16 Ave South, in swampy area west of a Little League baseball field in the Burien area near Des Moines Memorial Drive. Death probably occurred in the Spring or Summer of 1983. Dental records are available and a DNA profile has been developed by the University of North Texas and placed into CODIS. A new facial reconstruction was done by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.GARY LEON RIDGWAY admitted to this murder, pled guilty and is serving life in prison.

    http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/UTA...edpersons.html
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 06-19-2012 at 06:56 PM.

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    IDENTIFIED - Sandra D. Major
    BODY FOUND: 12/30/1985
    DOB:
    APPROXIMATE AGE:
    HEIGHT:
    WEIGHT:
    HAIR:
    EYES:
    RACE: African American

    CONTACT: Detective Tom Jensen
    King County Sheriff's Office
    Major Crimes Unit
    Green River Homicides Investigation
    206-296-7530
    Thomas.Jensen@kingcounty.gov
    SUMMARY: Black (African American) or mixed raced female 18 24 years of age. 51-54.These skeletal remains were found 12-30-85 in wooded ravine near Mountain View Cemetery in Auburn, close to remains of Bones #17 and another identified Green River victim. Death probably occurred in the Spring or Summer of 1983. Dental records are available and a DNA profile has been developed by the University of North Texas and placed into CODIS. A new facial reconstruction was done by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. GARY LEON RIDGWAY admitted to this murder, pled guilty and is serving life in prison.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 06-19-2012 at 02:51 PM. Reason: Added Identified Flag

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    Unidentified Female
    BODY FOUND: 1/2/1986
    DOB:
    APPROXIMATE AGE: 14-18
    HEIGHT: 5'4"-5'8"
    WEIGHT:
    HAIR:
    EYES:
    RACE: White


    CONTACT: Detective Tom Jensen
    King County Sheriff's Office
    Major Crimes Unit
    Green River Homicides Investigation
    206-296-7530
    Thomas.Jensen@kingcounty.gov
    SUMMARY: White female 14 18 years of age. 54-58. These skeletal remains were found 1-2-86 in wooded ravine near Mountain View Cemetery in Auburn, close to remains of Bones #16 and another identified Green River victim. The victim was found during an evidence search around bones #16. Death probably occurred in the Spring or Summer of 1983. Dental records are available and a DNA profile has been developed by the University of North Texas and placed into CODIS. A new facial reconstruction was done by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. GARY LEON RIDGWAY admitted to this murder, pled guilty and is serving life in prison.

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    NO PHOTO AVAILABLE
    Unidentified Female
    BODY FOUND: 6/2003
    DOB:
    APPROXIMATE AGE: 13-24
    HEIGHT:
    WEIGHT:
    HAIR:
    EYES:
    RACE: White


    CONTACT: Detective Tom Jensen
    King County Sheriff's Office
    Major Crimes Unit
    Green River Homicides Investigation
    206-296-7530
    Thomas.Jensen@kingcounty.gov
    SUMMARY: Female 13 – 24 years of age.
    These remains were found after extensive searching of site pointed out by GARY RIDGWAY in June of 2003. Minimal skeletal remains were recovered ( 23 bones and three teeth; no skull or mandible). Dental records are available and a DNA profile has been developed by the University of North Texas and placed into CODIS. DNA is consistent with female. Anthropologists could not determine race. Deceased between 10 and 20 years and could date back to the 1970’s. DOB range would therefore be between 1957 and 1980. GARY LEON RIDGWAY admitted to this murder, pled guilty and is serving life in prison.

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    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/100ufor.html


    The Doe Network:
    Case File 100UFOR


    Sketch of Victim
    Unidentified White Female Located on April 22, 1985 in Tualatin, Oregon
    Cause of death was homicide.
    She is believed to be a victim of the Green River Serial Killer.

    Vital Statistics

    • Estimated age: 17 - 19 years old
    • Approximate Height and Weight: 5'4 - 5'7"
    • Distinguishing Characteristics: Unknown
    • Dentals: Available (partial)
    • Fingerprints: Not Available
    • DNA: Not Available


    Case History
    The victim was found next to a golf course in Tualatin, Oregon. Next to her remains were the remains of Tammie C. Liles, who had last been seen June 9, 1983, at Third Avenue and Pine Street in downtown Seattle.
    Investigators may never know the identity of the victim called "Oregon 1" or "Tualatin 1" for the past 17 years. The remains have gone missing, and the Oregon state Medical Examiner's Office in Portland can't account for them.
    She is believed to be a victim of the Green River Serial Killer Gary Ridgeway


    Investigators
    If you have any information concerning this woman's identity, please contact:
    Washington County Sheriff's Department
    Violent Crimes Unit
    Sgt. O'Connell
    503-846-2500

    You may remain anonymous when submitting information.
    Agency Case Number:
    85-06094

    NCIC Number:
    U-262722740

    Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case. Source Information:
    Seattle Times
    The Green River Killer Home Page
    Washington County Sheriff's Department
    ALL EVIL NEEDS TO SUCCEED IS FOR GOOD PEOPLE TO DO NOTHING!!!!

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    The remains have GONE MISSING! I wonder how often that happens?

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    Question Possible Match?

    Not much to go on.

    I see some similarities. What do you think?


    Quote Originally Posted by christine2448 View Post
    Unidentified Female
    BODY FOUND: 1/2/1986
    DOB:
    APPROXIMATE AGE: 14-18
    HEIGHT: 5'4"-5'8"
    WEIGHT:
    HAIR:
    EYES:
    RACE: White


    CONTACT: Detective Tom Jensen
    King County Sheriff's Office
    Major Crimes Unit
    Green River Homicides Investigation
    206-296-7530
    Thomas.Jensen@kingcounty.gov
    SUMMARY: White female 14 18 years of age. 54-58. These skeletal remains were found 1-2-86 in wooded ravine near Mountain View Cemetery in Auburn, close to remains of Bones #16 and another identified Green River victim. The victim was found during an evidence search around bones #16. Death probably occurred in the Spring or Summer of 1983. Dental records are available and a DNA profile has been developed by the University of North Texas and placed into CODIS. A new facial reconstruction was done by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. GARY LEON RIDGWAY admitted to this murder, pled guilty and is serving life in prison.
    ================================================== ====
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63845

    MISSING:Shelly Anne Bacsu
    Missing since May 3, 1983 from Hinton, Alberta, Canada.
    Classification: Non-Family Abduction

    Vital Statistics
    Date Of Birth: April 7, 1967
    Age at Time of Disappearance: 16 years old
    Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'0; 90 lbs
    Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; brown eyes.
    Medical Conditions: Bacsu has rhumatoid arthritis and a hearing impairment.
    Marks, Scars: Bacsu has freckles on her face and a small scar on her forehead.
    Clothing: A gray jacket, a purple sweater, a red sweater, blue jeans and blue/gray cougar runners. She had a ring with a green stone, opal stone earings and a necklace with two red hearts.
    Dentals: Her teeth were in perfect condition at the time of her disappearance
    AKA: Shelly Anne Urban

    Circumstances of Disappearance
    Bacsu was last seen at approximately 8:30 PM on May 3, 1983 as she walked down Highway 16 towards her home near Highway 40 in Hinton, Alberta.
    Following her disappearance, articles of her clothing were found near the Athabasca River, but she has never been recovered.
    At first, authorities suspected that she had run away, but after the articles of her clothing were found, they believe foul play may be involved.





  19. #19
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    Hi
    I think it would be good to have them checked.

    suzanne
    ALL EVIL NEEDS TO SUCCEED IS FOR GOOD PEOPLE TO DO NOTHING!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms Suzanne View Post
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/100ufor.html


    The Doe Network:
    Case File 100UFOR


    Sketch of Victim
    Unidentified White Female Located on April 22, 1985 in Tualatin, Oregon
    Cause of death was homicide.
    She is believed to be a victim of the Green River Serial Killer.

    Vital Statistics

    • Estimated age: 17 - 19 years old
    • Approximate Height and Weight: 5'4 - 5'7"
    • Distinguishing Characteristics: Unknown
    • Dentals: Available (partial)
    • Fingerprints: Not Available
    • DNA: Not Available


    Case History
    The victim was found next to a golf course in Tualatin, Oregon. Next to her remains were the remains of Tammie C. Liles, who had last been seen June 9, 1983, at Third Avenue and Pine Street in downtown Seattle.
    Investigators may never know the identity of the victim called "Oregon 1" or "Tualatin 1" for the past 17 years. The remains have gone missing, and the Oregon state Medical Examiner's Office in Portland can't account for them.
    She is believed to be a victim of the Green River Serial Killer Gary Ridgeway


    Investigators
    If you have any information concerning this woman's identity, please contact:
    Washington County Sheriff's Department
    Violent Crimes Unit
    Sgt. O'Connell
    503-846-2500

    You may remain anonymous when submitting information.
    Agency Case Number:
    85-06094

    NCIC Number:
    U-262722740

    Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case. Source Information:
    Seattle Times
    The Green River Killer Home Page
    Washington County Sheriff's Department
    The victim is Angela Marie Girdner. She was identified this december.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/tualatin/i...dentified.html

    http://www.salem-news.com/articles/d.../murder_85.php
    "There Is a Light That Never Goes Out." (The Smiths)

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  22. #21
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    I notice in the article that they seem to have doubts now about whether Ridgeway killed her.

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    From what I can tell, there are still three unidentified victims of Ridgeway, all of which are mentioned on this thread. The fourth, mentioned earlier in this thread (400UFOR) was identified as Angela Marie Girdner.

    97UFWA http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/97ufwa.html


    98UFWA http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/98ufwa.html


    99UFWA http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/99ufwa.html (IDENTIFIED)
    .

    ETA: I put up a possible for 98UFWA (Pollyanne Carter), but I deleted it out after realizing that although this UID was said to have been found in 1986, some of the remains were found in 1984 prior to the MP's disappearance.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-12-2012 at 11:25 PM.

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  25. #23
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    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/19...est=latestnews

    Published June 19, 2012


    Q13 Fox reports the remains of 20-year-old Sandra Denise Major were identified by matching DNA samples taken from her family.
    I think that Sandra may be one of the 4 women on this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Stardust View Post
    The victim is Angela Marie Girdner. She was identified this december.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/tualatin/i...dentified.html

    http://www.salem-news.com/articles/d.../murder_85.php
    Was she the "Angie" referred to on the King County website who was a friend of Tammy Liles or that is someone else?

    No photo available. We are trying to identify a possible missing female known only as Angie. Angie was an associate of Green River victim Tammie Liles. She was last seen in downtown Seattle in the summer of 1983. Angie was last known to be from the Marysville area.

    Here's her description: White female, 17 to 18 years of age at the time of contact, 5' 4" in height, 110 pounds, with curly shoulder length light brown hair and greenish-blue eyes. She's been described as "very pretty" and "a Barbie doll." She was wearing blue jeans when she was last seen.
    http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/she...reenRiver.aspx

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