Cocoamom Theory #2

Mods/Admins - do whatever you need to this thread if it belongs elsewhere or not here - thanks!

To everyone else, please remember this is just a theory and is in VERY rough form. I was jumping up and down to put it up for you all so it needs some dates/times/order of things changes and corrections. I may be completely off on some of it so help me out OK?

This is a whole different way of thinking of it that fits - need links and references to interviews with LE, etc. Got your guns loaded? Shoot some holes in it please - that's what makes theories viable or not. Long so get your eyedrops out!Thanks!

This theory is so good I think that the “anti-Anthony-case” hubby even gave me the green light to spend whatever time I need doing this tonight so Ready, Set, GO:

• CA and KC fight with choking thing on 8th or 9th. That’s why the date stands out in everyone’s mind.
• KC and Caylee start sleeping every night at RM’s because that is the only place she knows that she can stay that somebody doesn’t mind a kid around.
• My bad on the Amy texts, I was confused and thought they were from KC to AH but it was the other way around. Forget about this.
• Night of the 14th, CA at sometime calls KC and tells her she wants to take Caylee to the great grandpa’s for Father’s Day. CA had to, in essence, crawl back to Casey whom she was mad at for whatever caused the big fight only a few days before (prob. Money). Caylee is KC’s control over CA and CA hates that because SHE is the control freak. Anyway, CA probably says I’ll be over early in the morning to get her. This explains RM not understanding where Caylee went – she was there when they went to bed and gone when he woke up.
• KC starts to date TL. He doesn’t want a kid around either. KC doesn’t want to go home – she wants to make mom mad and control her by “punishing” her for choking KC.
• KC starts to “drug “ Caylee and keep her in the trunk. Maybe a makeshift bed? Backseat folds down on one side for air, crack a window, etc. Don’t know what drug or chloroform, I don’t care, doesn’t matter – that isn’t what I think killed Caylee.
• She goes outside when she is on the phone says TL in his statement right? All she has to do is open the back door to her car to check on Caylee. It’s not that hot at night.
• During the days she 1) Goes home 2) cooks or whatever at TL’s 3)hangs at the church 4) hangs at Amy’s , etc. The night or two that she stayed at Amy’s with no Caylee – either of 2 things has happened 1) she is sick of this kid always having to sleep with her so far in her life and it’s nice to not have to worry about her so she drugged her again in the trunk bed thing she made or 2)she over did it a bit on the drugging and can’t get Caylee awake enough to bring her in so she leaves her.
• Out partying? Trunk bed. Date with TL? Trunk bed. Etc
• She does this trunk bed thing so much that she over does it with Caylee and the baby just won’t wake up. But SHE’S NOT DEAD.
• So much time in trunk and Caylee has accidents and maybe even vomits – on her doll’s dress too. It smells. “I must have run over something with my car” / “squirrel” story.
• Runs out of gas at Amscot. Knows it’s hot. Daytime. JG can’t help. Amy doesn’t answer. Oh crap! What do I do? Can’t call TL with Caylee with me half drugged, eventually he will notice that she never wakes up! I can leave her and check on her until I get a gas can. Take driver’s license, keys, phone etc. Leave purse so I have excuse to go back if friend can drive me. Undress Caylee from backseat so no one notices me in my trunk for a long time and maybe won’t smell that smell. Take off doll’s dress too. Throw all in dumpster or wherever. “They haven’t even found her clothes.” Do some sort of quick clean on trunk. Text Amy “got rid of that smell. Splattered under car” or whatever it is she said.
• TL picks up – KC on 27th. 2.6 days later, car is towed right? Doesn’t smell bad or like death or anything that a guy with a cold would notice. OR
• Car sits for 3 days, people undoubtedly go by it at some time, no smell – because CAYLEE IS STILL ALIVE.
• Spend the whole weekend trying desperately to find someone with a gas can and gas so I can get my car back and my daughter. Call JG, Call Amy, repeatedly ask TL if he has one but he says don’t worry about it, I’ll just drive you wherever. (made that part up)
• Somewhere in here they go to A’s to steal cans but lock on shed or they are empty or not enough gas, don’t know. Borrow shovel to try to break shed lock at some point too (before out of gas at Amscot but the Friday before)but it doesn’t work. Desperation for gas because can’t leave Caylee in the trunk or someone will find out. Carrying cans in car week before Amscot gives her opportunity to possibly steal gas from others??? Not sure here.
• Finally Amy takes her to buy can and gas. Return to Amscot – car towed. Oh crap! What now? Friends all think that sucks but have no idea how much. Tow truck driver doesn’t smell anything because 1) he has a cold? Maybe? More on that later 2) Caylee ISN’T DEAD YET. It’s the 30th. ??
• Why, if you want your car stolen or towed, do you try so hard to get gas and a can from your friends?
• Spends all time thinking of how to find out where car was towed to, how to get to it, panic sets in. Parties to relieve stress? Strange but this whole case is so who knows. Could call LA or GA maybe and tell the truth so he can think of an idea of how to get Caylee from that car? This time period is kind of up in the air for me right now – too much to figure out right now –that’s why you all are helping! But I feel that this time period with the FL heat in late June, early July – Caylee finally perished. SOB!
• Have you ever gotten a certified mail notice in your mailbox or on your door? I have, it ALWAYS says who the sender is. GA and CA see the notice, CA thinks “good, she has no car now. I just talked to her and she said Caylee is sleeping so I know they are alright, I’ll just let her suffer for a while with no car.” Control now goes to CA. CA tells in interview that “it was a few days with the holiday in there before GA got to the Post Office to get the letter.” He took this stab from her on TV because he had to. More on that later too. CA was probably still mad from KC controlling her over her vacation when she didn’t get to see Caylee. At that time KC had the control.
• They finally go to get the car. Here I get a little sketchy, several scenarios are possible. GA leaves CA in the office to pay and goes to the car. Smells like death. Now here are possibilities:
o Caylee is still in trunk deceased. GA pays off or bribes tow yard guy and drives away with Caylee in the back.
o Caylee is still in trunk deceased and GA knows it by how strong the stench is but she is hidden in the boot of the car maybe and the tow yard guy doesn’t know it?
o The body is already gone because GA or LA somehow got in there to try to “rescue” Caylee but she had already deceased. Unlikely due to “dirt” in trunk.
o The body is in a suitcase or bag in the back seat or trunk and tow guy doesn’t notice?
• Tow guy throws bag with pizza box over fence and GA drives away. Back home, CA says “what died?” then says “it’s the pizza right George?” How did she know about the pizza? The box went over the fence in the bag. You are a nurse, you KNOW what decomp smells like. YOU KNOW what has happened. GA mentioned somewhere that the “Arm & Hammer detergent, pizza box, other trash like we have at our house…” Someone from their house put that bag in there to disguise the smell and I don’t think it was Casey, I think it was GA!
• Today the 15th of July is 2.6 days since Caylee died or decomp issue happened. Or the stench in vehicle is worse because the decomp leakage sat there for so long after Caylee was removed.
• You are 20 years ex-homicide cop. Your grand daughter has not been heard from in weeks and you smell that smell in her mother’s car and YOU DON’T CALL THE COPS? You roll the windows down, go home, open the car up and GO TO WORK???
• They picked up the car late morning right? So why didn’t CA go get KC immediately after they got the car home? She and Amy didn’t go get her til around 7PM right? Or even 4PM? What happened in all those hours? GA didn’t normally go to work until around 2 or so right? Obviously CA had Amy’s number because she called her right? Why did she wait so long?
• On way home, 911 calls about “theft of car and money”. Daughter, want to bring her in, yayayaya. No mention of the smell in the car until home again and THIRD call to 911. She already knew of the smell because she asked GA about the pizza thing right? He was at work when she got home with KC so she couldn’t have asked him then right? No mention of the smelly car to 911 until THIRD CALL.By now she wants to seal herself in control so she calls with the “smells like a dead body was in the damn car.” This seals KC’s fate. KC is good, but not as fast thinking as mom.
• One theory: Body was still in car, came home, CA/GA have hysterical crying jag over dead Caylee then decide it’s partially their fault because they didn’t get the car sooner. CA blames GA for not getting the letter sooner. She tells him to get rid of the body – he’s the cop who knows how after all. We can’t lose our daughter TOO! NO, we can’t call police! Casey knows Caylee couldn’t possibly be alive any longer – CA has control again over KC and GA. Thus the on TV jab that he took about not getting the notice from the Post Office.
• GA considered burying in back yard laid it down then reconsidered, gathered some tools/plastic/whatever – Rubbermaid tub? Put body in container. Go to “work” dumping body in whatever way a 20 year homicide detective knows to do to get rid of it forever. Dirt in trunk? Cops give up on finding body because of this…
• Another theory: LA got in to tow yard or KC or friend and got the body out and got rid of it. I don’t think this is the case because of that phone call to home from jail – “what do you mean you don’t know my role in this” (Misquote I know – that’s why you are helping me guys). CA – “well, you aren’t telling me where she is sweetheart.”. You are CA, you think your grand daughter is DEAD at the hands of your daughter and you call her SWEETHEART???
• KC - “I’M NOT TELLING YOU WHERE SHE IS BECAUSE I DON’T F###NG KNOW WHERE SHE IS” – one of KC’s few truths. KC’s next thought was probably “but you do don’t you mom?” KC doesn’t know because:
o Mom came and got her from TL’s – oh crap, they got the car and found her body. I’m toast.
o Come home, see car, no body – WTF? Where is she?
o Bro comes over – private conversation – she tells him, “I knocked her out all the time with Xanex or chloroform but car ran out of gas and got towed. She was alive in the trunk last time I saw her!!” Bro knows death smell. Bro figures it out after a few weeks and knows that KC did what she did and parents did what they did and “I’m outta this mess!!!” Thus the disappearance of Lee. Refuses to help cops so CA and GA don’t try to throw him under the bus. Stays as far away from case as possible because he knows and doesn’t want to be the bad guy who rats out his whole family.
o Mom pops head in door with Lee there and says “who took her, who took her?” Mom telling Casey in code to go with a kidnapping story. KC runs with it. After all, KC can’t tell the cops “I drugged my daughter but she was alive in the trunk when the car was towed.” She would get the needle for that. CA and GA can’t tell that they found the body and dumped it or they go down forever and KC still doesn’t get off. Best bet? KC is a liar and keeps mouth shut. No body, no death penalty, not much evidence so good chance of no conviction at all. Play the poor grandparents. Put on a good act. CA sort of gives KC a “script” to go by. I have never seen any member of the Anthony family cry on TV (except KC’s fake tears). Watch again the videos – read the body language of GA and CA – are these really terrified grandparents? I don’t think so. LA is the only one I ever felt “looked” genuine on TV.

• KC really doesn’t know where she is because someone else got rid of her. “Close” means family close, not necessarily physically close.
• Cell forensics on GA have never been released. He was called to Grand Jury. He didn’t know what was said by others before he got there right? Maybe his “story” he told them gave them the idea that a conviction was possible. Maybe tow guy cracked and told truth. Doesn’t it seem strange that tow guy would go out and crawl around in the dumpster looking for the bag in the middle of the night instead of just calling and waiting for cops by the dumpster?
• They never released that visit GA had with KC in jail did they?
• CA elbowed GA during interview “went to work right?”
• CA has control now – KC has some control too. They are both OK with this but KC doesn’t like being the one in jail I’m sure. But she sees no way out other than getting off. What she doesn’t realize is that she could plea bargain with that info!
• KC is an excellent actress – where did she learn that? MOM!
• LE hasn’t arrested GA or CA because 1) not enough evidence 2) they had until today a Criminal Attorney who told them to shut up. Why a criminal attorney when you aren’t a suspect? Because you committed a criminal act that’s why! Attorney thinks he’s there for their publicity rights or whatever but how convenient if they get arrested right?
• LE released info that would send media and us and all of America on a wild goose chase trying to understand Casey when she is simply the offspring of the real criminal minds.
• KC’s CALLS are way more important than her texts. May vs late June/early July calls to dad and bro would be super important if we see an increase in calls to either of them.
• At some point, KC knows that there is no way Caylee is alive any more and she has to run because they WILL eventually find the body. She works on stealing money left and right and finding an ex-boyfriend who will take her in. She wanted “one more day” to get out of Dodge. This is why I don’t think KC knew the body was gone out of the car until she got home that night.
• I think KC thought Caylee died in the trunk at the tow yard and was still there. She didn’t know mom and dad had done this until she got home.
• If you were KC and your daughter was stuck in the trunk of your car at the tow yard, wouldn’t you have found a way to at least get the body out? You wouldn’t have been partying, you would have been panicked. She was partying to get closer to people to steal from so she could run!
• This theory makes me “understand” as Baez said, quite a bit. I almost feel sorry in a way for KC because she had to grow up with THAT for a mother and a father who was willing to let it happen. No matter what, I am convinced that KC is the way she is because of her twisted mother – sorry – didn’t want to bash CA but this theory is all about CA’s craving for control and KC learning that and trying it. So sad that Caylee is the one who paid the biggest price for both of their egos!

END OF THEORY –

Please tear it up and put holes in it – that’s how we find out how viable a theory is. Add to it, correct it. I know the order of some things is wrong and maybe some dates. This is just a fast as I could do it draft! Also, THIS IS ONLY A THEORY for us to work – if you are willing!

Ready, set GO!

Hey CCM - In the beginning I think there "may" (not sure until I go back and look at the LE discovery dates & times) be some dates and times that are a little off, but other than that, I think the grand scheme of the theory is as (or more) plausable than any other one I've read.

One question - when do you find time to eat and sleep ?

Just caught up on the church theory thread - you guys are REALLY good, especially considering the fact that I totally screwed up and thought that Amy's texts to KC were actually KC texting Amy!! The texts mean nothing now that I know I was "in a backwards sort of way"....sorry bout that.

BUT I DO love the Amy's car idea - fits in with where "someone" may have put Caylee's body. Also, I was a little too kind to Lee - that 2 hours to get her stuff is too weird - maybe they are ALL involved??? The keys? Good one - never could figure that out either. Amy's apt? I have no doubt that she went there whenever Amy wasn't - just one more place to hide. After all, gotta get out of the heat, mosquitos and rain at the church sometimes right?

You all are good! My theory also explains why YM may have been less than interested in the church theory - because they already know that Caylee was alive when towed? They know that the other A's are involved?

Thanks FLKatz for the hint about the "no odor" when towed - that was left out of my theory too. I could have captured everything but I kept getting interrupted by my PM box, phone calls, emails and all that! LOL You all wanted it NOW so here it is in rough draft.

One correction regarding dates. The night that Caylee slept over but wasn't there in the morning - for some reason my post ended up in June and I believe that the correct date for that should have been May 31rst. In LE's interview with CA, they ask her if she had called KC to bring Caylee home on the night of May 31rst. I have asked JBean to correct this information on the calendar.

I think this theory is very plausible. There are two things I would bet money on in this case:
1.) Everyone of the A's is implicated in the cover-up. None of them can say much of anything without implicating themselves.
2.) The one thing Casey says that I believe is true is that she dosen't know where Caylee is.

So, are you saying that you think KC drugged her every night and left her in the car all night every night while she was sleeping over at TL's or partying?

Pink Panther said:

One correction regarding dates. The night that Caylee slept over but wasn't there in the morning - for some reason my post ended up in June and I believe that the correct date for that should have been May 31rst. In LE's interview with CA, they ask her if she had called KC to bring Caylee home on the night of May 31rst. I have asked JBean to correct this information on the calendar.

Click to expand...

What was her answer? Did she call her to bring Caylee home? Was that Memorial Day weekend? I wasn't sure about a lot of the dates and was just aiming for the general time frame. The main gist of the theory was that she was alive the last time KC saw her and alive when car was towed.

Is it possible that the tow people discovered her maybe still alive barely and got rid of her due to liability of towing a car with a child locked inside? I don't know, getting far fetched here maybe...thinking out loud.

The timeline needs a little tweaking, but overall plausible. It would explain one of several things that has stuck in my craw since the beginning and continues to gnaw at me.

When CA says, "I don't know what you're talking about sweetheart" (or something close to that), KC replies, (and I again I'm paraphrasing) "Oh, right, like you don't know!"

I'm convinced that was an honest response.

I'll comment further after I've had time to mull it over a bit. Great work, CCM!

distracted said:

So, are you saying that you think KC drugged her every night and left her in the car all night every night while she was sleeping over at TL's or partying?

Click to expand...

Yes, or at least every night that she didn't have CA and GA watching her. I also think it worked for a while so she thought it was a good idea - not hurting Caylee because she always wakes up fine in the morning, keeps control over CA, still being "mommy" to someone totally dependent on her, etc.

I don't think she left her in there during the day - too hot. Just enough Xanax to get her through the night. I can see KC's twisted reasoning "what's the difference? Bed at home or close to mommy in fun trunk bed!"

Brain cramps, finger cramps, eyeballs falling out - going to bed...

Will try to get on tomorrow...if Yuri calls anyone and wants my number for a job offer, feel free to give it to him! LOL

Hope I'm not right - this would mean we may never find Caylee. This also justifies so MANY searches by LE and TES down by Lee Vista Blvd and East - even where she didn't ping!! She wasn't the one dropping the body! I think GA is a very good actor and CA is the twisted brains behind it all. Probably nightmares tonight -

bye for now! tear it up!

cocoamom said:

Yes, or at least every night that she didn't have CA and GA watching her. I also think it worked for a while so she thought it was a good idea - not hurting Caylee because she always wakes up fine in the morning, keeps control over CA, still being "mommy" to someone totally dependent on her, etc.

I don't think she left her in there during the day - too hot. Just enough Xanax to get her through the night. I can see KC's twisted reasoning "what's the difference? Bed at home or close to mommy in fun trunk bed!"

Click to expand...

So, that would mean that she did this every night for almost two weeks. That doesn't seem likely to me. Nobody saw Caylee again after the 15th of June. If she didn't drug her during the day, then she would have taken her someplace.

It also doesn't seem likely to me that KC would risk her being found alive in the trunk. She would have to give her a lot of something to ensure her sleeping through the night. If she did wake up and start to cry, somebody might hear her. I just don't see KC taking that risk. I also don't think she could go out and party like she did and not worry that someone might hear Caylee in the trunk. Those photos taken of her at the club show a girl who didn't have a care in the world.

Good theory. I just don't think that Caylee would have made it through more than a couple of hot hours in the car during the day without passing away. So, if she was alive the day KC ran out of gas and "abandoned" the car at the Amscot, she would not still be alive even the next day, much less days later. I do agree that GA and CA found her and began the cover up, though.

The only part that is semi-implausible to me is that if she were in the trunk that much and for that long SOMEONE would hear her...she would most certainly be crying if she was there for that long, even if she had been drugged. Overall, great theory CCM! I love all of the though, time and effort you put into all of this!

From CCM's Theory above:

• They picked up the car late morning right? So why didn’t CA go get KC immediately after they got the car home? She and Amy didn’t go get her til around 7PM right? Or even 4PM? What happened in all those hours? GA didn’t normally go to work until around 2 or so right? Obviously CA had Amy’s number because she called her right? Why did she wait so long?

_______________________
IIRC the Pontiac was picked up around 2 pm

Re: GA: Since the Toll road invoices were released, it has bothered me that IIRC, GA's vehicle (the black one) paid a toll and was travelling around 5:30-ish on July 15th, the day the Pontiac was picked up. I thought it was said that GA left for work right away after getting home with the car. So, why was he on a toll road (or at least his car was) if he was at work? Or did he not leave for work until later in the afternoon?

Gee, I really shouldn't even be posting -- I don't have time to look up the links to the toll records. I also will be guilty fo posting and running -- I've got to get everything ready for my grandbaby's visit and they get here tomorrow!

CocoaMom - you are quite the thinker! I need time to digest this . . . .

Bobo said:

From CCM's Theory above:

• They picked up the car late morning right? So why didn’t CA go get KC immediately after they got the car home? She and Amy didn’t go get her til around 7PM right? Or even 4PM? What happened in all those hours? GA didn’t normally go to work until around 2 or so right? Obviously CA had Amy’s number because she called her right? Why did she wait so long?

_______________________
IIRC the Pontiac was picked up around 2 pm

Re: GA: Since the Toll road invoices were released, it has bothered me that IIRC, GA's vehicle (the black one) paid a toll and was travelling around 5:30-ish on July 15th, the day the Pontiac was picked up. I thought it was said that GA left for work right away after getting home with the car. So, why was he on a toll road (or at least his car was) if he was at work? Or did he not leave for work until later in the afternoon?

Gee, I really shouldn't even be posting -- I don't have time to look up the links to the toll records. I also will be guilty fo posting and running -- I've got to get everything ready for my grandbaby's visit and they get here tomorrow!

Click to expand...

Is that toll bridge the one that has the alligators below, some poster wrote that she could see 20 alligators below on that bridge. Do you think maybe as much as George loved Caylee, he loved Casey too, do you think he could have thrown Caylees body over that bridge, knowing the alligators would eat her.

Great post! How does the "31 days missing" fall into play in this theory?

Wow, you put some serious time in on this. Great work! I really enjoyed reading it...very interesting ideas. Lots to mull over.

I agree with part and disagree with others. Personally, I feel that she intended to set the car on fire and wanted the gas to cover the car with. Fire would destroy all the forensics! When that plan failed, I think she left the car at the Amscot in HOPES it would be stolen...hence why she didn't actually call her parents about the incident. If it had been stolen, then the whole decomp issue could have been pawned off on the theft party.
I also dont think Caylee was alive but unconcious in the trunk for multiple days without waking. It just goes against what I feel would be reasonable given the circumstances. Id need to know more I guess. The decomp smell wouldnt have been "knock you on your butt" powerful after only 2-3 days. I've worked around bodies that have been dead 3 days...they dont smell terrific, but its tolerable. A body thats been sitting for a week or more, especially in high heat and humidity however is positively GHASTLY.

Thank you Cocoamom! I love this....(must read over again when Im not so sleepy)

Great theory but 2 questions???? Didnt Cindy drive George to tow yard to get the car? Wouldnt she have seen George throw pizza box over the fence or tow guy or whoever threw it ???
And if Caylee was in trunk still alive , wouldnt she have been crying to get out UNLESS she was drugged and dieing at that precise time and too weak to cry???????

Lisa-Rachelle said:

I agree with part and disagree with others. Personally, I feel that she intended to set the car on fire and wanted the gas to cover the car with. Fire would destroy all the forensics! When that plan failed, I think she left the car at the Amscot in HOPES it would be stolen...hence why she didn't actually call her parents about the incident. If it had been stolen, then the whole decomp issue could have been pawned off on the theft party.

Click to expand...

Setting the car on fire makes complete sense to me. She wanted that car to go away.

I've thought about your theory some more, CCM. The last half is plausible but I just can't make the first half work. Two weeks is a long time. I just don't see KC being able to pull it off.

Sorry. I still think you're onto something with the church theory, however.