807 users online (134 members and 673 guests)  


Websleuths News


Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    See above ^
    Posts
    596

    Talking Temporary Custody Order Published

    Judge Sasser certainly had the luxury of not having to publish the custody order until AFTER his indictment / arrest - obviously it would have looked quite different and she would have had to have made some "conclusions" regarding his involvement. Wonder if that one was ever written? Or - did she know an arrest would happen within the time allotted to publish?

    Oh - and favorite line / phrase of the order:

    'jail or other penal institution in which he resides'

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    118

    Reasonable Conclusions

    While I disagree with the judge on her conclusion, I believe they are reasonable. It is her job to draw a reasonable conclusion and she has done so, I personally do not see anything in her conclusions that violate his civil rights. In reading the order she states that mistakes have been made on both sides, and she renders solutions for both sides. I wish the girls could have more contact with their father, but under the circumstances they do not need to be in the limelight, subject to media attention or in a jail. Keeping them away from jail keeps them from asking "why is daddy in jail", so it keeps their minds clean in the event that Cooper is found not guilty. With BC now being in jail, it is in the girls best interest to keep them away from all of it until after the trial. BTW on another subject, I do not believe he should get the death penalty if found guilty, I think the girls when they are old enough deserve to have him answer the question, "why did you kill our mom", which would be harder than dying, IMO.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    4,078
    What do you believe her conclusion should have been then? Who should the girls be residing with?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    118
    I believe he should have had the children up until indictment. To clarify, I did not agree with initial ex-parte order. Under the conditions of the current temporary custody order, her conclusions are reasonable as BC cannot reasonably care for the girls at this time. IMO, I think she knew that an arrest was imminent and moving the girls back to NC would have been pointless. I know nothing more of the case than the items that have been published by the media, IMO I did not see a reason for the ex-parte order based on what was known, I also will lend credence to the thought that perhaps the Lister's and Rentz's know more regarding the investigation that what is known to the general public. Regardless of my personal opinion which is "I have no idea if he is guilty or not", I have to believe the Plaintiffs in this case presented more to Judge Sasser than their personal feelings, I expect we will see all of the information at trial and it will make it easier to understand why the ex-parte order was issued to begin with, at least that is what I hope. I believe that if personal feelings would do it, then Jason Young would have lost custody of his daughter by now, as her parents firmly believe he is guilty, once again more information regarding the Young case has been made available than regarding this case, not to digress but I think he is guilty as can be, based on what I have read, and have no idea why he is still walking around a free man.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    4,078
    thanks for clarifying your stance! I agree w/your assessment on the Young situation. Keep in mind though that the Fishers did not contest or try to get custody of Cassidy after the murder. There was no emergency hearing in that case.

    As for Judge Sasser's decision on the emergency ex-parte hearing, I believe she had reasons for why she ruled the way she did. Don't forget that the defense team agreed to continue the temporary custody arrangement on July 25 for the next 3 months, and that was outside of the judge/courtroom.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    118
    I can also justify in my mind why BC agreed to the July 25th extension, as the media circus was heating up and he did not want the girls subject to that, I believe he loves his children and they love him, this was also addressed in the Judge's order. As I have said all along the biggest losers in this situation are Bella and Katie, regardless they have lost their mother and now possibly their father too.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    118
    I have to admit I am a bit perplexed as to why the defense team did not want the Judge's order to be public. I did not see anything in the order that I think would bias anyone in the case, to the contrary I think the it may actually help how the public perceives BC, nothing jumped out at me as being overly aggressive or biased. My only concern would be that she basically chastised him for maintaining his 5th amendment rights.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Knightsbridge
    Posts
    16,856
    Quote Originally Posted by justthinking2008 View Post
    I can also justify in my mind why BC agreed to the July 25th extension, as the media circus was heating up and he did not want the girls subject to that, I believe he loves his children and they love him, this was also addressed in the Judge's order. As I have said all along the biggest losers in this situation are Bella and Katie, regardless they have lost their mother and now possibly their father too.
    The only problem with this thought is that the Judge also outlines that Brad wanted to expose the girls to the media back in the beginning and that it was one of Nancy's friends that talked him out of it. Line 81 of the temporary custody order outlines this rather plainly. Based on this I can find no way to accept that he simply signed off on the 25th of July to avoid the media. I'm not sure the biggest losers right now are the children, they are alive and being cared for and will continue to be cared for. Nancy is long removed from life.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    118
    My reason for the saying the children are the biggest losers has more to do with what they have lost, not what they have gained. Prior to the murder NC created a loving nurturing environment for the children that in my opinion can never be replacated. While the children are in a safe loving home, they will never again have their mother's love, and nothing can replace a mother's love IMO. IMHO, these girls have suffered a "primal wound" that will never completely heal, and what is really sad is the fact that their father may have created this situation. While it is truly awful that NC lost her life, IMO it is worse that the girls lost their mother, and now their dad, life can never be the same for them again. While I do not know this for a fact, I can reasonably think at their age NC had never discussed death with them, and having to learn about it at an early age and loss being that of their mother will only compound the loss. It is bad enough to lose a parent at any age, even if they die of old age and natural causes, but to lose a parent to a violent murder would just be worse, of course I speak here only from my thoughts.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    4,078
    I agree with that. I cannot imagine the pain those kids have suffered.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    See above ^
    Posts
    596
    Honestly - they were not in a loving and nurturing environment over the past few months that Nancy was alive. The hostility was palpable. they were screaming at each other in front of the children (so much so a neighbor came over - good Lord!) The children were asking and crying why Daddy hated Mommy.

    Children are little sponges - and they could not help but absorb some of that venom.

    Was there not an affidavit that said that Bella was regressing in her potty training or someone was having accidents? If Nancy was sleeping in their room with the door locked - they'd have figured out that something was very much not right.

    They were likely told that they would be going to live in Canada with the Listers, and then told things changed.

    It was a very tough time for those kids.

    Getting them away from that mess was a huge win for the well being of those kids, IMO. I only wish Nancy had been able to find a way to get away sooner. My gut tells me that Kristin knew something bad was going to happen - call it twin intuition or whatever - and Nancy was too close to the situation and downplayed her instincts, or felt she cold handle things.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Knightsbridge
    Posts
    16,856
    With a bit of experience, I have learned how incredibly resilient very young children can be when removed from a terrible situation and placed in a good situation. The pain comes later when the grown ups decide to get the truth out.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    118
    Thanks Sleuthy, regardless these kids will have an awful situation to deal with, I pray they will get the help they need.



Similar Threads

  1. Temporary Womb Transplants?
    By Linda7NJ in forum Up to the Minute
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 03-13-2014, 09:30 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-29-2010, 04:51 AM
  3. K&B Ask for custody order to be sealed
    By RaleighNC in forum Nancy Cooper
    Replies: 100
    Last Post: 11-08-2008, 07:57 PM