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  1. #211
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    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by elliottness View Post
    Okay, I did some research on Bulova Accutron watches and here's what I found out:

    Serial numbers that began with a letter were made in the USA (ex. A12345). So, the watch that "Jock" was wearing had a serial number of H918803 which means it was made in the USA. Each watch had a serial number and underneath a 2-digit age marker made up of one letter and one number. Here are some examples:

    A9 = 1949 (this was the first dating done)
    L0-L9 - 1950's, L0 = 1950, L1 = 1951..... L9 = 1959
    M0-M9 - 1960's, M0 = 1960, M1 = 1961....etc... toM6 = 1966, etc.
    N0-N9 - 1970's. N3 = 1973, etc.

    According to the coroner's report, this watch was made in 1968 so I'm assuming the 2-digit age marker was M8 on the watch. Can anyone verify this?

    Also, production of this type of watch stopped in 1977. And this information comes from Bulova's website: "Starting in 1948 Bulova began marking the back of watch cases with the year of the watch. To determine the age of a watch made prior to 1948, you would need to send it to Bulova service, as the only year indication for these watches is inside the casing. For watches from 1948 and 1949 the actual year is printed. After that, a letter denoting the decade followed by the digit of the year is marked. This practice began in the '50s, with the letter L. M signified the '60s, N the '70s, P the '80s, T the '90s and A the '00s (2000). So, for example, if P9 is on the case back, the watch was manufactured in 1989. The only way to know the value of a watch, unfortunately, is to have it appraised by a professional jewelry appraiser."
    I also did some research on the watch earlier in the week. I found the same info about the Bulova watch serial #s and I'm confused, as I was when I looked this up a couple years ago too. I also found that the letter M was used to signify the 1960s. So how could the serial number on his watch start with an H? Shouldn't it be M918803? They started with As in the 1940s and skipped the letters B through K, using the letter L to signify watches made in the 1950s. And the M9 watch was made in 1969. Here is a link from one of the websites I found the info on:

    http://www.thewatchguy.com/pages/BulovaSerial.html

    I just don't understand how the serial # on Jock's watch could start with an H if they didn't use the letter H. Unless the watch was made in another country and overseas they used letters between B and K? I'm sorry if this was explained before and I missed it or forgot it. The only explanation I can think of is that possibly the watch was made and purchased overseas and had a different serial # than those made in the USA?
    Please Help Find Brian Shaffer!



    www.findbrianshaffer.com


  2. #212
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    150
    Quote Originally Posted by Cambria View Post
    I also did some research on the watch earlier in the week. I found the same info about the Bulova watch serial #s and I'm confused, as I was when I looked this up a couple years ago too. I also found that the letter M was used to signify the 1960s. So how could the serial number on his watch start with an H? Shouldn't it be M918803? They started with As in the 1940s and skipped the letters B through K, using the letter L to signify watches made in the 1950s. And the M9 watch was made in 1969. Here is a link from one of the websites I found the info on:

    http://www.thewatchguy.com/pages/BulovaSerial.html

    I just don't understand how the serial # on Jock's watch could start with an H if they didn't use the letter H. Unless the watch was made in another country and overseas they used letters between B and K? I'm sorry if this was explained before and I missed it or forgot it. The only explanation I can think of is that possibly the watch was made and purchased overseas and had a different serial # than those made in the USA?
    H918803 was the serial number, but there should have been an additional number on the watch besides this one. This number may have been M8, but it was not notated on the coroner's report.


  3. #213
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    893
    elliottness..Good find.
    Does anyone know if there is a picture of Jock's Bulova Accutron watch, front and back?
    Quote:
    October 25, 1960
    Bulova Accutron, the first watch to keep time through electronics, is introduced. It is the most spectacular breakthrough in timekeeping since the invention of the wristwatch. This revolutionary timekeeping concept of a watch without springs or escapement is operated by an electronically activated tuning fork.
    The Accutron watch goes on to become a presidential gift to world leaders and other dignitaries.
    President Johnson declares it the White House's official Gift of State.

    2000
    On October 4, Mayor Rudolph Giuliani proclaims Bulova Day in New York City, in recognition of Bulova’s 125th anniversary.

    ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’..
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds...What I write here, are my theories, speculation, opinions & deductive reasoning...not to be taken as 'fact'..


  4. #214
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    893
    Quote Originally Posted by JaneInOz View Post
    This is another photo of him with another photo of Jock as a insert to compare

    Date Last Seen: June 08, 1975
    Place Last Seen: His residence in Coleman, Alberta
    Age at Time of Disappearance: 27 years
    Red shirt; blue denim jeans; blue denim jacket
    Additional Information:
    ARCAND left his residence in Coleman, Alberta driving his 1969 Ford Falcon
    stationwagon.
    On July 15, 1975 his car was found abandoned 50 miles north of
    Coleman.

    The Hairline Eyebrows Nose Jaw all seem to fit...
    JaneInOz...good find! I'm inclined to believe this is our 'Jock", both have teeth missing and Jock had a appendectomy scar??...while Joseph Arcand had a Hernia scar...easily mistaken for a appendix scar.....what are the odds?
    ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– –––––
    Notice, "our S.C.Jock" does have some missing teeth, and a 'bridge where some missing teeth were.
    and a 4” (10 cm) appendectomy scar and two 2” (5 cm) scars on his right shoulder.
    'Jock' had very elaborate and expensive dental work with bridges and crowns.
    Jock had an acrylic or porcelain crown on the left front tooth and fillings in most upper teeth.
    He also had some missing teeth in top and bottom but noticeable in top back left. He was missing his lower wisdom teeth.
    Last edited by Mysterylover; 02-02-2009 at 08:08 PM.

    ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’..
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds...What I write here, are my theories, speculation, opinions & deductive reasoning...not to be taken as 'fact'..


  5. #215
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    32

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by justthinkin View Post
    Shadetree, the map will only give me a satellite view, no street view.

    I wouldn't worry about the spelling on Locklair, it's still just a form of Locklear.

    Here's something I found, and although it doesn't directly relate to this case, it still may be of some interest here.

    Robeson County, NC marriage records from 1799-1868

    http://www.mountainpress.com/books/n.../fi-1037w.html

    Here are all the different spellings of Locklear contained within.

    LOCKELEAR LOCKLAER LOCKLAIR LOCKLEAR** LOCKLEER LOCKLEIAR LOCKLIAR LOCKLIER

    How this happens is that many people in the US were illiterate back then, and didn't have an idea how to spell their last name so it was up to the census taker to determine the spelling or the bank or whatever entity with which they had business. Various spellings may have also served to distinguish 4 Locklear guys named John living in the same county. I'm just using that as an example.

    Today, those with the spelling Locklair, may pronounce it as it sounds, different pronounciation for different spellings. However, those who are proud of their Lumbee heritage may pronounce it Locklear no matter the spelling. Still others may have abandoned their spelling variation in favor of the spelling Locklear. Bet you didn't want a genealogy lesson.
    More knowledge is never a bad thing!
    You don't see the little "Google Man" on the map (where you can drag to increase or decrease your view)?

    If you do see him, just drag him and drop him on the map where you want to "virtually" walk around. I think it's pretty cool, but then sometimes I'm pretty easily amused!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Obsessed with trying to do the right thing...


  6. #216
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    893
    Quote Originally Posted by rmf View Post
    The emphasis on the Jane Doe's facial moles has been stressed by the former coroner, Mrs Moore, who has been working on this case for years. She has used this characteristic to rule out potential matches and that is why I felt it noteworthy to mention it here......
    The more details the better when searching for anyone...details solve cases!

    I believe Jocks 4 inch scar called a appendectomy scar is too long for an appendix scar and is in fact is a possible hernia scar..
    Notice this sentence below, some reports had overlooked or left out the word 'undergoing'..."He was undergoing extensive dental reconstruction and had two scars on his left shoulder."

    Quoting Ms. Moore:

    Both were white, with olive tones to their skin and were between 18 and 26 years old.

    She was 5-foot-6, weighed about 105 pounds and had brown hair, blue-grey eyes, long eyelashes and two small moles to the left of her mouth.

    She wore a white blouse over a peach halter top and blue Levi's jeans cut off into shorts with a floral scarf as a belt. She wore purple and pink wedge shoes and three silver rings with embedded gems.

    He was just over 6 feet and weighed about 150 pounds. He had brown hair, brown eyes and bushy eyebrows.

    He was undergoing extensive dental reconstruction and had two scars on his left shoulder.
    He wore a red Coors T-shirt, blue jeans and brown sandals. He had a Bulova Accutron gold watch and a gold ring with a gem and the engraved letters JPF.

    Their autopsy notes describe the couple simply: "slender, attractive" and "well-developed, well-nourished."

    Three decades after he first saw them, Dr. Garvin once again returned to the couple's remains. He took bone samples he hopes will yield DNA.

    Without something to compare the DNA with, however, it will be of little help. That means hope in Sumter County again turns to Canada.

    "If someone in Canada came forward and said, ‘I think that is my brother or sister,' or whatever, then we could obtain an oral sample from them to compare. It's our best bet," Sgt. Mackessy said.

    Added Ms. Moore: "I cannot understand how two young people disappeared from somewhere and that their parents would not be looking for them. It is unreal that after all this time - it will be 32 years this summer - that nobody seems to be looking for them."

    Or maybe they have just been looking in all the wrong places.

    ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’..
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds...What I write here, are my theories, speculation, opinions & deductive reasoning...not to be taken as 'fact'..


  7. #217
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    893
    Guys, I hope someone mentions this case to the Vidocq Society Members, this is a mysterious case that definitely needs solving..
    Quote:
    Vidocq Society Members (V.S.M.'s) evaluate, investigate, refocus, revivify and solve the unsolved deaths officially brought to them.

    V.S.M.'s are forensic professionals and motivated private citizens who, as a public service, donate deductive, scientific and other talents for the common good.
    A long-unsolved homicide or death is the focus of a Vidocq Society meeting during which the case and its evidence are dissected for members and invited guests, all with an eye towards rekindling or refocusing the investigation......

    ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’..
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds...What I write here, are my theories, speculation, opinions & deductive reasoning...not to be taken as 'fact'..


  8. #218
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    893
    Quote Originally Posted by elliottness View Post
    Okay, I did some research on Bulova Accutron watches and here's what I found out:

    Serial numbers that began with a letter were made in the USA (ex. A12345). So, the watch that "Jock" was wearing had a serial number of H918803 which means it was made in the USA. Each watch had a serial number and underneath a 2-digit age marker made up of one letter and one number. Here are some examples:

    A9 = 1949 (this was the first dating done)
    L0-L9 - 1950's, L0 = 1950, L1 = 1951..... L9 = 1959
    M0-M9 - 1960's, M0 = 1960, M1 = 1961....etc... toM6 = 1966, etc.
    N0-N9 - 1970's. N3 = 1973, etc.

    According to the coroner's report, this watch was made in 1968 so I'm assuming the 2-digit age marker was M8 on the watch. Can anyone verify this?

    Also, production of this type of watch stopped in 1977. And this information comes from Bulova's website: "Starting in 1948 Bulova began marking the back of watch cases with the year of the watch. To determine the age of a watch made prior to 1948, you would need to send it to Bulova service, as the only year indication for these watches is inside the casing. For watches from 1948 and 1949 the actual year is printed. After that, a letter denoting the decade followed by the digit of the year is marked. This practice began in the '50s, with the letter L. M signified the '60s, N the '70s, P the '80s, T the '90s and A the '00s (2000). So, for example, if P9 is on the case back, the watch was manufactured in 1989. The only way to know the value of a watch, unfortunately, is to have it appraised by a professional jewelry appraiser.".........
    elliottness, very good find! I agree, something is wrong with the information we have about the gold, Bulova watch..

    NOtice the information given on this 1974 Bulova watch I found forsale on the net.
    (for example only)
    Vintage Gold Filled Bulova Accutron #2032 Tuning Fork Watch
    Manufacturer: Bulova
    Condition: Excellent
    Model: Accutron #3410 Size: 30mm x 26mm
    Movement: 2032 Tuning Fork
    Serial Number: 612,873
    Case: Gold Filled
    Crystal Type: Plastic
    Estimated Date of Manufacture: 1974

    ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’..
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds...What I write here, are my theories, speculation, opinions & deductive reasoning...not to be taken as 'fact'..


  9. #219
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    2,526
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterylover View Post
    JaneInOz...good find! I'm inclined to believe this is our 'Jock", both have teeth missing and Jock had a appendectomy scar??...while Joseph Arcand had a Hernia scar...easily mistaken for a appendix scar.....what are the odds?
    ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
    Notice, "our S.C.Jock" does have some missing teeth, and a 'bridge where some missing teeth were.
    and a 4” (10 cm) appendectomy scar and two 2” (5 cm) scars on his right shoulder.
    'Jock' had very elaborate and expensive dental work with bridges and crowns.
    Jock had an acrylic or porcelain crown on the left front tooth and fillings in most upper teeth.
    He also had some missing teeth in top and bottom but noticeable in top back left. He was missing his lower wisdom teeth.
    Yes I think so too.

    So what next ? can we send it somewhere ? to see if it is ?


  10. #220
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,631
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterylover View Post
    Guys, I hope someone mentions this case to the Vidocq Society Members, this is a mysterious case that definitely needs solving..
    Quote:
    Vidocq Society Members (V.S.M.'s) evaluate, investigate, refocus, revivify and solve the unsolved deaths officially brought to them.

    V.S.M.'s are forensic professionals and motivated private citizens who, as a public service, donate deductive, scientific and other talents for the common good.
    A long-unsolved homicide or death is the focus of a Vidocq Society meeting during which the case and its evidence are dissected for members and invited guests, all with an eye towards rekindling or refocusing the investigation......
    Why don't you contact them about this case? I know from another case that people wanted to submit on WS that according to the rules on their website you have to have the cooperation of the LE unit that is investigating the case and also permission from the families of the victims. Unfortunately, we don't know who the families are, but in this situation I would hope they would make an exception. I don't know if they investigate unidentified victims or only murder victims or missing persons whose identities are known. They are very highly thought of all over the world so it would be worth a shot.
    Please Help Find Brian Shaffer!



    www.findbrianshaffer.com


  11. #221
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,224
    I don't know if it helps, but I found out from a Bulova watch repairman that the watch is a 218 caliber Bulova Accutron, a later production than the 214, and earlier than the 219 caliber.

    I say go ahead and get Arcand checked out because otherwise you'll always have doubts--so put an end to them!

    I've been wondering how other than coming from a well to do family Jock may have come by his dental work. So I wonder, could he have been a veteran, and received the dental work while in the armed services? If he'd done a tour of duty in Vietnam, I feel sure the Army would've seen to it, that any dental issues would have been corrected before shipping him off.

    Anyone have any other ideas? I mention this because this may be an additional route to helping find out who he is. It could explain why no dentist came forward to id their work.


  12. #222
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    2,526
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterylover View Post
    elliottness..Good find.
    Does anyone know if there is a picture of Jock's Bulova Accutron watch, front and back?
    .
    I believe this is the front of it

    http://translate.google.com.au/trans...ial%26hs%3DVf7

    Scroll down

    I haven't found back yet although I thought i did see a pic somewhere

    i will have another look


  13. #223
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,224
    Arcand's dental isn't matching up with Jock Doe's. Where Jock Doe has a porcelain crown, Arcand has the tooth missing. Also Arcand has his wisdom teeth.

    Alberta Missing Persons:

    Edward Arcand was last seen leaving his residence in Coleman on June 8, 1975. Arcand left his residence in Coleman driving his 1969 Ford Falcon stationwagon. On July 15, 1975 his car was found abandoned 50 miles north of Coleman on Highway 940.
    • Howard Booth was last seen near Coleman, on July 17, 1977, Booth’s truck was located in the Kananaskis Country, 44 miles north of Coleman


    It appears from where the two men's vehicles wound up, they may have been murdered by the same person.
    Arcand is described as a small man too, and Jock is 6 ft. tall.

    Bummer, I was hoping Arcand might really be Jock Doe.


  14. #224
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,224
    Got a huge favor to ask of one of you sleuthers from SC. Can you find out if either old issues of the Sumter Item or any other newspaper there and the newspaper in Florence are on microfilm? It might help if we can read newspaper clippings on the case from when they were originally published. Perhaps the original articles may be of some use.

    I'm not asking someone to go through any available microfilms, just find out if they exist.


  15. #225
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    150
    Quote Originally Posted by justthinkin View Post
    Got a huge favor to ask of one of you sleuthers from SC. Can you find out if either old issues of the Sumter Item or any other newspaper there and the newspaper in Florence are on microfilm? It might help if we can read newspaper clippings on the case from when they were originally published. Perhaps the original articles may be of some use.

    I'm not asking someone to go through any available microfilms, just find out if they exist.
    Have you ever tried this site: http://www.newspaperarchive.com/

    It requires you to join, but it has an archive of newspaper records.


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