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  1. #1
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    Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

    Discuss the family dynamics and psychological profiles of Casey and family in a constructive way, please do so here.
    thanks.

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70260"]Casey & Family Psychological Profile #1[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69987"]Casey & Family Psychological Profile #2[/ame]
    Last edited by BondJamesBond; 01-06-2011 at 11:32 PM.


  2. #2
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    kaRN wrote: Clearly Casey is extremely mentally ill. She'll fit in perfectly with the other 99% of whatever prison population she's placed in. That being said. Legally she has to prove she didn't know what she was doing was wrong because of her as yet to be diagnosed mental defect.
    I'd like to point out a few general things about mental illness and mental illness and the legal system, and I apologize in advance if this has already been discussed recently in this thread (I didn't see it if it was). First, because a person commits a crime it does not mean they are mentally ill. As for Casey, I personally have no idea what her mental health history is, or if she's mentally ill, as I'm not privy to the information that would be assessed to determine this.

    Second, the majority of incarcerated individuals are not diagnosed with an Axis I serious mental health disorder, such as Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder, Schizoaffective Disorder or Delusional Disorder, for example. I work for a major metropolitan felony probation department supervising offenders who have been diagnosed with a serious mental illness (SMI). We have approximately 4000 felony probationers on active supervision department-wide; of those, about 400 are supervised through the Mental Health Unit. Having a serious mental illness does not mean a person is more likely to be violent per se. Some individuals with a mental illness do experience homicidal, assaultive or aggressive behaviors, but this is by far not the norm. I can't agree with the assertion that 99% of all persons in prison have a mental illness.

    Third, personality disorders -- such as Antisocial, Borderline, Narcissistic, etc -- fall onto the Axis II diagnostic spectrum, not the Axis I. It is possible to have both an Axis I and an Axis II diagnosis, or just one or the other. Having an Axis II diagnosis alone does not qualify as person as "mentally ill." It just means they have a significant character defecit.

    Fourth, it is entirely possible to be mentally ill and actively experiencing psychotic, manic or otherwise debilitating symptoms of a mental illness at the time of the commission of a crime, and still not qualify as legally insane. Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity is a very specific finding -- it is rarely a successful defense, as you all probably know. Andrea Yates? Totally, unquestionably mentally ill -- Not Guilty/Insanity was a very appropriate verdict in that case, IMO.

    From what I've personally read/reviewed/watched in this case, I would not be overly surprised if Casey Anthony is found to have an Axis II diagnosis. I have no information about an Axis I diagnosis, though, and haven't come across any information that indicates Casey has an established history of Axis I mental illness. If anyone has read otherwise, please let me know (link plz'nthx!)


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  4. #3
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    You're not alone in your thoughts. There are several of us here who feel she has Axis II (one or more).


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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagull65 View Post
    (Uh, I still disagree that travel is a necessary component of someone experiencing fugue. Though if that happens it could certainly indicate fugue.)

    Regarding your second paragraph there, since you raised the subject, equally troubling are the people who are so attached to the theory of KC as vicious, psychopathic, premeditated murderer of her own child that they state this over and over as if it were proven fact, even insulting the others who are still keeping an open mind pending the many unanswered questions, the evidence being presented at trial, etc (they just aren't intelligent or informed enough to get it, they say!) Please!

    But anyway, back to the case.
    I interjected in the dissociative fugue discussion to clarify that sudden, unexpected travel is, as a point of fact, a necessary symptom for a diagnosis of dissociative fugue. The DSM requires it. I am familiar with this diagnostic criteria and its application because I am currently enrolled in a clinical practicum on the diagnosis of abnormal psychopathology.

    Also I am not personally attached to any particular psychological profile one might present of Casey. I am also not completely convinced Casey’s actions were premeditated. I do think she could probably be classed as a psychopath and I tend to refer to her as such within these forums. I would actually feel a sense of personal relief if I could see convincing signs pointing in another direction. Psychopathy is terrifying and the fewer psychopathic individuals, the better IMO!

    We all offer our personal opinions, for the purpose of learning and understanding. When discussing psychology, we’re processing our subjective interpretations of observed behavior within the framework of objective diagnostic criteria and, sometimes, subjective personal experience. I think we’re all here because we like to read others’ opinions and share our own. We like to discuss and understand things and learn new things. I sense you took my reply as a personal jab and I wanted to clarify that it was not intended to be. If I wanted to pick fights and feel bad about myself, I'd just spend more time with my family I'm teasing, but I hope to convey I wasn't making passive jabs-- I was just interested in the discussion.

    Personally, I think it’s really important to recognize the difference between the mentally ill and the pathologically personality disordered. I think someone with an Axis I mental illness could be analogized to a person with diabetes— the person is just a regular person but some of their inner machinery isn’t working like everyone else’s, so they need some medical treatment to normalize their functioning. We can observe and measure the imbalance and we can usually medically correct it.

    To me, saying Casey Anthony seems to have killed her daughter because she has a serious mental illness doesn’t comport with all of her observable behaviors (and we have gotten to observe a lot), viewed in light of existing clinical research and guidelines.

    Bringing back the diabetes analogy: It’s like if I kick you in the shins, take your cupcake, smile and shrug, saying “I needed sugar” and you say “poor girl must have diabetes.”
    That’s just how I see it and it’s only my opinion, but I offer it in hopes that it might clarify why some of us get excited about drawing the line between mental illness and personality disorders.
    Last edited by nancy botwin; 12-15-2008 at 01:59 AM. Reason: struggles


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  8. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by nancy botwin View Post
    I interjected in the dissociative fugue discussion to clarify that sudden, unexpected travel is, as a point of fact, a necessary symptom for a diagnosis of dissociative fugue. The DSM requires it. I am familiar with this diagnostic criteria and its application because I am currently enrolled in a clinical practicum on the diagnosis of abnormal psychopathology.

    Also I am not personally attached to any particular psychological profile one might present of Casey. I am also not completely convinced Casey’s actions were premeditated. I do think she could probably be classed as a psychopath and I tend to refer to her as such within these forums. I would actually feel a sense of personal relief if I could see convincing signs pointing in another direction. Psychopathy is terrifying and the fewer psychopathic individuals, the better IMO!

    We all offer our personal opinions, for the purpose of learning and understanding. When discussing psychology, we’re processing our subjective interpretations of observed behavior within the framework of objective diagnostic criteria and, sometimes, subjective personal experience. I think we’re all here because we like to read others’ opinions and share our own. We like to discuss and understand things and learn new things. I sense you took my reply as a personal jab and I wanted to clarify that it was not intended to be. If I wanted to pick fights and feel bad about myself, I'd just spend more time with my family I'm teasing, but I hope to convey I wasn't making passive jabs-- I was just interested in the discussion.

    Personally, I think it’s really important to recognize the difference between the mentally ill and the pathologically personality disordered. I think someone with an Axis I mental illness could be analogized to a person with diabetes— the person is just a regular person but some of their inner machinery isn’t working like everyone else’s, so they need some medical treatment to normalize their functioning. We can observe and measure the imbalance and we can usually medically correct it.

    To me, saying Casey Anthony seems to have killed her daughter because she has a serious mental illness doesn’t comport with all of her observable behaviors (and we have gotten to observe a lot), viewed in light of existing clinical research and guidelines.

    Bringing back the diabetes analogy: It’s like if I kick you in the shins, take your cupcake, smile and shrug, saying “I needed sugar” and you say “poor girl must have diabetes.”
    That’s just how I see it and it’s only my opinion, but I offer it in hopes that it might clarify why some of us get excited about drawing the line between mental illness and personality disorders.
    You just keep on coming up with great stuff, don't you? Thanks SO much for this!
    Age. Fac ut gaudeam


  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twoapennything View Post
    I'd like to point out a few general things about mental illness and mental illness and the legal system, and I apologize in advance if this has already been discussed recently in this thread (I didn't see it if it was). First, because a person commits a crime it does not mean they are mentally ill. As for Casey, I personally have no idea what her mental health history is, or if she's mentally ill, as I'm not privy to the information that would be assessed to determine this.

    Second, the majority of incarcerated individuals are not diagnosed with an Axis I serious mental health disorder, such as Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder, Schizoaffective Disorder or Delusional Disorder, for example. I work for a major metropolitan felony probation department supervising offenders who have been diagnosed with a serious mental illness (SMI). We have approximately 4000 felony probationers on active supervision department-wide; of those, about 400 are supervised through the Mental Health Unit. Having a serious mental illness does not mean a person is more likely to be violent per se. Some individuals with a mental illness do experience homicidal, assaultive or aggressive behaviors, but this is by far not the norm. I can't agree with the assertion that 99% of all persons in prison have a mental illness.

    Third, personality disorders -- such as Antisocial, Borderline, Narcissistic, etc -- fall onto the Axis II diagnostic spectrum, not the Axis I. It is possible to have both an Axis I and an Axis II diagnosis, or just one or the other. Having an Axis II diagnosis alone does not qualify as person as "mentally ill." It just means they have a significant character defecit.

    Fourth, it is entirely possible to be mentally ill and actively experiencing psychotic, manic or otherwise debilitating symptoms of a mental illness at the time of the commission of a crime, and still not qualify as legally insane. Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity is a very specific finding -- it is rarely a successful defense, as you all probably know. Andrea Yates? Totally, unquestionably mentally ill -- Not Guilty/Insanity was a very appropriate verdict in that case, IMO.

    From what I've personally read/reviewed/watched in this case, I would not be overly surprised if Casey Anthony is found to have an Axis II diagnosis. I have no information about an Axis I diagnosis, though, and haven't come across any information that indicates Casey has an established history of Axis I mental illness. If anyone has read otherwise, please let me know (link plz'nthx!)
    Couldn't agree more. I am getting sick of people calling her psychotic.


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  11. #7
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    Scared Monkeys broadcast from 12-15 discusses Casey Anthony case.

    Guests include:
    Clint Van Zandt, retired FBI agent, and criminal profiler
    Stacy Dittrich, police officer, author and investigator
    Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch
    Pat Brown, criminal profiler
    Mark Williams, Orlando radio outlet News Director

    Click here for media player or download options. (76 minute broadcast)


  12. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egoslayer View Post
    Couldn't agree more. I am getting sick of people calling her psychotic.
    ..or a "victim."
    Age. Fac ut gaudeam


  13. #9
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    My mother and daughter are bipolar - This is definately the AXIS I diagnosis - AXIS II diagnosis are normally personality disorders etc. As someone mentioned above - AXIS I diagnosis can normally be treated with medication - AXIS II diagnosis unfortunately are much harder to treat - the main problem is normally getting the patient to admit there is something wrong with them (instead of the problem is everyone else...) - this type of behaviour does remind me of KC - however, it does not excuse what she had done - and I doubt highly that you could win a mental insanity plea based on it.

    Even if KC does have an AXIS I disorder it can still be difficult to prove that she was mentally insane - my daughter was diagnosed when she was 17 - now while it has certainly had an effect on her school and work life - she quite aware that her choices affect her life - and if she were to get in legal trouble it would be no different.

    KC is nothing like Andrea Yates IMO - and therefore, I doubt that she can get off on an insanity plea.

    Lastly, I realize KC more than likely grew up in a dysfunctional family - but so did the majority of the population (including myself) - but this is no excuse for what she has done.


  14. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twoapennything View Post
    I'd like to point out a few general things about mental illness and mental illness and the legal system, and I apologize in advance if this has already been discussed recently in this thread (I didn't see it if it was). First, because a person commits a crime it does not mean they are mentally ill. As for Casey, I personally have no idea what her mental health history is, or if she's mentally ill, as I'm not privy to the information that would be assessed to determine this.

    Second, the majority of incarcerated individuals are not diagnosed with an Axis I serious mental health disorder, such as Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder, Schizoaffective Disorder or Delusional Disorder, for example. I work for a major metropolitan felony probation department supervising offenders who have been diagnosed with a serious mental illness (SMI). We have approximately 4000 felony probationers on active supervision department-wide; of those, about 400 are supervised through the Mental Health Unit. Having a serious mental illness does not mean a person is more likely to be violent per se. Some individuals with a mental illness do experience homicidal, assaultive or aggressive behaviors, but this is by far not the norm. I can't agree with the assertion that 99% of all persons in prison have a mental illness.

    Third, personality disorders -- such as Antisocial, Borderline, Narcissistic, etc -- fall onto the Axis II diagnostic spectrum, not the Axis I. It is possible to have both an Axis I and an Axis II diagnosis, or just one or the other. Having an Axis II diagnosis alone does not qualify as person as "mentally ill." It just means they have a significant character defecit.

    Fourth, it is entirely possible to be mentally ill and actively experiencing psychotic, manic or otherwise debilitating symptoms of a mental illness at the time of the commission of a crime, and still not qualify as legally insane. Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity is a very specific finding -- it is rarely a successful defense, as you all probably know. Andrea Yates? Totally, unquestionably mentally ill -- Not Guilty/Insanity was a very appropriate verdict in that case, IMO.

    From what I've personally read/reviewed/watched in this case, I would not be overly surprised if Casey Anthony is found to have an Axis II diagnosis. I have no information about an Axis I diagnosis, though, and haven't come across any information that indicates Casey has an established history of Axis I mental illness. If anyone has read otherwise, please let me know (link plz'nthx!)
    Bolding is mine:
    ITA with everything you said, but i'd just like some clarification on one point.
    The part that i bolded, are you saying that specifically in terms of the law?
    Because those axis II diagnosis are condidered mental ilnesses in the mental health sector.
    On another note , I'm suprised to see schizoaffective disorder as Axis 1. Thats really interesting.
    thanks for the imput


  15. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by butwhatif? View Post
    Bolding is mine:
    ITA with everything you said, but i'd just like some clarification on one point.
    The part that i bolded, are you saying that specifically in terms of the law?
    Because those axis II diagnosis are condidered mental ilnesses in the mental health sector.
    On another note , I'm suprised to see schizoaffective disorder as Axis 1. Thats really interesting.
    thanks for the imput
    Many psychologists call Axis II disoders "characterological disorders," not "mental illnesses." This because "mental Illness" implies psychosis, to many people.

    Why are you surprised re: schizoaffective disorder?
    Age. Fac ut gaudeam


  16. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by butwhatif? View Post
    Bolding is mine: ITA with everything you said, but i'd just like some clarification on one point. The part that i bolded, are you saying that specifically in terms of the law? Because those axis II diagnosis are condidered mental ilnesses in the mental health sector. On another note , I'm suprised to see schizoaffective disorder as Axis 1. Thats really interesting. thanks for the imput
    I do know that the community mental health treatment organizations here in the Denver Metro area will not open a person for services based solely on an Axis II diagnosis -- the person must have an Axis I diagnosis in order to qualify for community mental health treatment (by this, I mean treatment providers who work with Medicare/Medicaid and/or indigent populations). For what it's worth, by far the most common Axis II diagnosis I deal with as a PO is Borderline Personality Disorder. The law does not speak to the categorization of mental health disorders and mental illness, so, no, it's not in terms of the law. And perhaps this varies state to state, but Axis II diagnoses are not considered mental illness per se, at least not here in Colorado.


  17. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Twoapennything View Post
    I do know that the community mental health treatment organizations here in the Denver Metro area will not open a person for services based solely on an Axis II diagnosis -- the person must have an Axis I diagnosis in order to qualify for community mental health treatment (by this, I mean treatment providers who work with Medicare/Medicaid and/or indigent populations). For what it's worth, by far the most common Axis II diagnosis I deal with as a PO is Borderline Personality Disorder. The law does not speak to the categorization of mental health disorders and mental illness, so, no, it's not in terms of the law. And perhaps this varies state to state, but Axis II diagnoses are not considered mental illness per se, at least not here in Colorado.
    Would you happen to know if Cindy (yes, Cindy, Casey's mother) was seeing a therapist? She mentioned once that someone, ( a counselor? a social worker? don't remember who) told her she should start custody proceedings for Caylee since she was so worried about her welfare. Can anyone help me out on this information? TIA


  18. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wishicouldhelp View Post
    Would you happen to know if Cindy (yes, Cindy, Casey's mother) was seeing a therapist? She mentioned once that someone, ( a counselor? a social worker? don't remember who) told her she should start custody proceedings for Caylee since she was so worried about her welfare. Can anyone help me out on this information? TIA
    The only person who has ever mentioned this is her brother Rick who has posted on forums about the case and who provided information to Greta (anonimously - without appearing in person on the show.)

    Rick wrote that CA had started seeing a counselor and had been working toward getting custody of Caylee.

    MOO


  19. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by wishicouldhelp View Post
    Would you happen to know if Cindy (yes, Cindy, Casey's mother) was seeing a therapist? She mentioned once that someone, ( a counselor? a social worker? don't remember who) told her she should start custody proceedings for Caylee since she was so worried about her welfare. Can anyone help me out on this information? TIA
    Yes, the therapist told CA to start custody proceedings, and throw KC out of the house. Tell her to get a job, and grow up.
    Age. Fac ut gaudeam


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