Page 26 of 67 FirstFirst ... 16 24 25 26 27 28 36 ... LastLast
Results 376 to 390 of 992
  1. #376
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    871
    Quote Originally Posted by gord View Post
    The one thing that even from the beginning made me think that even if the parents had been involved - I dont see how they could have disposed of the body in the time frames that they had. I dont believe for a minute the more outlandish theories that she was killed days before hand and this was a carefully staged plan. There were independent witnesses that saw Madeleine upt 5.30 that night.

    I certainly dont believe for a minute that this is a cover up. If so this would have to involve two goverments , two judicaries , two police forces all from different nations .all lying to protect who and why - it is too much. and to make it even stranger the ver goverement or country that colluded in the cover up is nopw spending millions on a police review and trying to persuade the Portugese to open the case again ?

    The only logical expalnation I can offer is that an abductor ( and unfortunately we all know these people do exsist ) took an opportune moment to take M from her bed. In a boot of a car they would have been in spain within two hours . We all know from the various reports that the golden first hour was handled badly. The crime site was not sealed , there was no checks on any borders - but this is history now - Even the most partisan of people who say the Mcaans are guilty must recognise that the initial police handling was chaotic at best.

    There has been 1000's of words written about this case on many sites, To answer the point about the 15 DNA markers - I doubt the person is a forensic expert , I am not either . I will post here a copy of the email sent by the FSS to Amaral . Before people ask, this is taken from another site . It is pretty well taken as a genuine email from the police reports that were available to all. I just put it here as is and for people to read. - but in the nature of the net I cant give 100% authenciticy -sorry.
    The jist of the mail was that Swabs from the apartment didnt even isolate what type of fluid it waslet alone a 100% match -

    Anyway it is still all a mystery


    Mr Lowes Email to Sr Amaral.

    Firstly here are the 3 results you are expecting.

    An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than 1 person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of M. M....LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive, it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid.

    There is no evidence to support the view that MM contributed DNA to the swab 3B.

    A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least 3 people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL 10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of MM there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine MM has inherited the same DNA components from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20.
    Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to 5 contributors.

    In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.


    Why?.....

    Well let's look at the question that is being asked.

    "Is there DNA from MM on the swab?"

    It would be very simple to say "yes" simply because of the number of components within the result that are also in her reference sample.

    What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether the match is genuine and legitimate; because M has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether M merely appears to match the result by chance. The individual components in M profile are not unique to her; it is the specific combination of 19 components that makes her profile unique above all others. Elements of M profile are also present within the profiles of many of the scientists here in Birmingham, myself included.

    It's important to stress that 50% of M profile will be shared with each parent. It is not possible in a mixture of more than 2 people, to determine or evaluate which specific DNA components pair with each other. Namely we cannot separate the components out into 3 individual DNA profiles.

    Therefore, we cannot answer the question: is the match genuine or is it a chance match.

    The same applies to any result that is quoted as being too complex for meaningful inclusion/interpretation.

    What questions will we never be able to answer with LCN DNA profiling?

    When was DNA deposited?
    How was DNA deposited?
    What body fluid(s) does the DNA originate from?
    Was a crime committed?

    These along with all other results, will be formalised in a final report.
    Taken from those e-mails:

    "Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to 5 contributors."

    If I'm reading correctly, and I might not, since I'm not a DNA expert, some of those samples contain DNA from 3 people, but 15 of 19 are the same from Maddie. So, let's see (and here is where I might be wrong), 3 people and up to five. Well, there's the mother and father, and their still alive. There are the twins, and their still alive, now WHO does that leave out?

    Maddie.

    If I'm wrong (since I'm no DNA expert), someone who might be more familiar with this, please correct me.

    and, about the cover up, I didn't mean the Portugal Police or government are in on the cover-up, I meant The British only. As to why their re-opening the case, well, to please the McCann's, but I'm under the impression the Portugal government is well aware of who they think are the perps.


  2. The Following User Says Thank You to rpgman For This Useful Post:


  3. #377
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    765
    from what I understand on this - there was no 100% match on Maddies DNA - we all as humans share the same DNA - what makes DNA unique is the specific order and combination of DNA samples that make a match that would be billion to one chance of being wrong. From what we read here they couldnt even get down to saying it was her DNA - it could have been but it could have been up to 5 other people - and when you think she shares 50% DNA with both parents and siblings - that is not surprising . So as I interpret this - the FSS could not say that this was a match to Maddy. - it might have been but it might have been parents - they just didnt know

    The other point that I always thought of is IF a dead Maddy had been transported in the boot/trunk of the car - you would not have needed a microscope for LCN DNA analysis - you could probably scooped it up by hand !!

    If we say it was just the British who covered this up - is this the police and goverment ? and they would still have had to involve somone in the Portugese system as they had the case in their country under their law - so it would stil, involve collusion between two nations at high levels - again the 100$ question why ??

    In the Uk at the moment we are going through a huge scandal with phone hacking where the press were found to have hacked mobile phones lots coming out with resignations everywhere - I just think that if there was a sniff of something illegal here someone would have found out
    Last edited by gord; 05-09-2012 at 09:23 AM. Reason: spelling


  4. The Following User Says Thank You to gord For This Useful Post:


  5. #378
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    871
    Quote Originally Posted by gord View Post
    So as I interpret this - the FSS could not say that this was a match to Maddy. - it might have been but it might have been parents - they just didnt know
    Exactly...that's what I was getting at.

    You have a cadaver hit, then you test the DNA and it can be one of 5 people.
    Maddie, the twins, or the parents. That's the 5.

    Guess who is still alive and accounted for?

    The parents and twins. So, who could have been the cadaver?
    Well, there's only one out of the 5 not accounted for, and that's Maddie.

    It's the same as the Caylee Anthony case. Who's death hair was in the trunk that also had a cadaver hit from a dog?

    Well, it could have been one of 3 people, and two are still living, Casey and her mom. So, the assumption is it's Caylee's death hair.

    The same for the DNA samples in the Maddie case....all the rest she shared DNA with are alive and accounted for.


  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to rpgman For This Useful Post:


  7. #379
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    765
    It doesn't work like that the samples they found all could have come from the parents our siblings it want a dead persons DNA it was just a minute sample of body fluid or tissue they couldn't just discount the parents. If this was a match then the parents would have been charged I think.the parents and siblings DNA was all over that car. The fss couldn't tell the diff


  8. The Following User Says Thank You to gord For This Useful Post:


  9. #380
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    871
    Quote Originally Posted by gord View Post
    It doesn't work like that the samples they found all could have come from the parents our siblings it want a dead persons DNA it was just a minute sample of body fluid or tissue they couldn't just discount the parents. If this was a match then the parents would have been charged I think.the parents and siblings DNA was all over that car. The fss couldn't tell the diff

    I know it doesn't work that way, but the way I see it is, you have a cadaver dog hit on the spot they get DNA from.

    No one died there previously (that according to records of the resort).

    Then, you have a missing child, and 4 of the 5 who match the DNA are accounted for.

    In my mind, that leaves a deceased Maddie being there at one point.

    I know it's not enough to convict though.

    JMO.


  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to rpgman For This Useful Post:


  11. #381
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,649
    Quote Originally Posted by rpgman View Post
    I know it doesn't work that way, but the way I see it is, you have a cadaver dog hit on the spot they get DNA from.

    No one died there previously (that according to records of the resort).

    Then, you have a missing child, and 4 of the 5 who match the DNA are accounted for.

    In my mind, that leaves a deceased Maddie being there at one point.

    I know it's not enough to convict though.

    http://www.mccannfiles.com/id268.html
    A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

    Why?...

    Well, lets look at the question that is being asked

    "Is there DNA from Madeline on the swab?"

    It would be very simple to say "yes" simply because of the number of components within the result that are also in her reference sample.


    What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether the match is genuine and legitimate; because Madeline has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether Madeline merely appears to match the result by chance.
    If that material was indeed taken from the spot in the luggage compartment where the cadaver (!) dog alerted, it strikes as odd that Lowe seems to ignore the crucial significance which this has for the report.


  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to rashomon For This Useful Post:


  13. #382
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    871
    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon View Post
    If that material was indeed taken from the spot in the luggage compartment where the cadaver (!) dog alerted, it strikes as odd that Lowe seems to ignore the crucial significance which this has for the report.
    Exactly.
    But the question is WHY does he ignore it?

    The only answer I can come up with is a cover up.

    Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2


  14. The Following User Says Thank You to rpgman For This Useful Post:


  15. #383
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    17,953
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...stigation.html

    Earlier this week, the Olive Press launched their own investigation into Sissal’s sighting and discovered that a German couple had checked into the campground on May 6, three days after Madeleine’s disappearance. The family had originally booked for two adults and two children, but the campground confirmed that they paid an extra fee to add a third child at the time they checked.

    They registered under the name Karsten Mayer and stayed at the campground until May 18, 2007. The campground confirmed to the Olive Press that their car license-plate number was registered in Germany and started with BE—which may mean it was a fake plate since those letters have not been issued in Germany since 1974, and the car they were driving was a blue 1996 Mercedes Vita minivan. They were also towing a camping trailer.

    Campground officials told the Olive Press that they have still never been contacted by investigators from any country about Sissal’s sighting.


  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Donjeta For This Useful Post:


  17. #384
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,295
    Quote Originally Posted by rpgman View Post
    Exactly.
    But the question is WHY does he ignore it?

    The only answer I can come up with is a cover up.

    Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2
    Yup. Agreed.


  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Robin Hood For This Useful Post:


  19. #385
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,476
    Robin hood,
    Are you accusing lowe of lying or being part of a conspiracy.

    And from what I can see here there is a misunderstanding of how DNA works.

    The FSS found a tiny sample that contained the DNA of three to five people. This sample was made up of 37 components.
    Madeleine's DNA is made up of 19 components, which she will also share with her relatives. However she will also share these components with a large percentage of the general population, including member sof the FSS and lowe himself. DNA components are in no way unique to one person, it is only the actual sequence that is unique.

    In the 37 components some components were found to be shared by madeleine, but according to Lowe these components could have come from any of her relatives, or any of the general population who share these components. Lowe states quite clearly that no DNA sequence was identified and the DNA could not be established as belonging to any named person or persons.
    Martin Grimes the dog handler who conducted the search stated that there was no reliable indication or evidence that a cadaver had been present. This was supported by another search expert called harrison (I think).
    i really cannot see the British police and forensic science service faking a lack of evidence, plus if there was evidence against them they would have been arrested and charged. The Portugues prosecutor stated there was no evidence against them and making them aguidos was too hasty.


  20. #386
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    282
    Police probe Madeleine grave theory.

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-prob...215231168.html


  21. #387
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,476
    Whether she is alive or dead I hope they find her. But I am sure this guy has been involved in searching for her before. I am not certain, but the south africa bit rings a bell.


  22. #388
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    On Battleship Hill
    Posts
    3,133
    Quote Originally Posted by brit1981 View Post
    Whether she is alive or dead I hope they find her. But I am sure this guy has been involved in searching for her before. I am not certain, but the south africa bit rings a bell.
    You are thinking of Daniel Krügel who was used by the McCanns in the beginning of the case. He had some type of machine.

    Boy does this case bring the nutters out of the woodwork
    England's dancing days are done...


  23. #389
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,476
    Quote Originally Posted by badhorsie View Post
    You are thinking of Daniel Krügel who was used by the McCanns in the beginning of the case. He had some type of machine.

    Boy does this case bring the nutters out of the woodwork
    That was it. Bit of a coincidence them both being from SA.
    I think you are right people really want to to involve themselves in this case for some reason.


  24. The Following User Says Thank You to brit1981 For This Useful Post:


  25. #390
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,649
    Quote Originally Posted by brit1981 View Post
    Madeleine's DNA is made up of 19 components, which she will also share with her relatives.
    This is not what the report says.
    The report merely speaks of 20 components within the DNA profile of Madeleine that appear as 19 components on a chart because at one of the areas of DNA they routinely examine, Madeleine inherited the same DNA component from both parents:

    http://www.mccannfiles.com/id268.html
    Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20.
    Quote Originally Posted by brit1981 View Post
    However she will also share these components with a large percentage of the general population, including member sof the FSS and lowe himself.
    Again, this is not what Lowe says.
    For he does not say that these nineteen components 'as a whole' are shared with large percentage of the population; he only speaks of "individual" components. BIG difference.

    Of these 19 components in Madeleine's DNA profile,
    15 were found in the DNA result obtained from the cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment.

    Quote Originally Posted by brit1981 View Post
    Lowe states quite clearly that no DNA sequence was identified and the DNA could not be established as belonging to any named person or persons.
    What Lowe clearly states is this:
    http://www.mccannfiles.com/id268.html
    What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether the match is genuine and legitimate; because Madeline has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether Madeline merely appears to match the result by chance.
    Lowe verbatim speaks of a match, given the number of components found in the DNA from the car: 15 out of 19 that are also in Madeleine's DNA obtained from a reference sample.


  26. The Following User Says Thank You to rashomon For This Useful Post:


Page 26 of 67 FirstFirst ... 16 24 25 26 27 28 36 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 25
    By colomom in forum Madeleine McCann
    Replies: 627
    Last Post: 12-29-2008, 11:45 AM
  2. Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 23
    By christine2448 in forum Madeleine McCann
    Replies: 596
    Last Post: 08-04-2008, 02:46 PM
  3. Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 21
    By colomom in forum Madeleine McCann
    Replies: 529
    Last Post: 05-06-2008, 11:16 AM
  4. Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 20
    By colomom in forum Madeleine McCann
    Replies: 373
    Last Post: 03-13-2008, 10:07 AM
  5. Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 19
    By chicoliving in forum Madeleine McCann
    Replies: 388
    Last Post: 01-16-2008, 05:53 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •