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  1. #61
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    My bold, highlighting, etc. and snipping
    Quote Originally Posted by april4sky View Post
    Forensic Scientist's statement from the DVD

    Laboratory reference
    The lab reference of this case is 300655190
    Objects received
    According to the lab records of 7 August and 6 September 2007 the objects referred to in this report entered the FSS laboratory in Birmingham, having been remitted by the Police Science Laboratory of Portugal and by the Leicestershire (UK) Police, respectively.
    Objective
    The objective of my examination was to determine if down or hair was recovered from the Renault Scenic 59-DA-27 and, if affirmative, to determine if those may have come from Madeleine McCann.
    Examination and results
    Reference objects
    I received [obtained] information from the pillow-case SJM/1, the tops SJM2, 4 and 5, and the hairbrush SJM/36 belonging to Madeleine McCann or used by her. The hair found on these objects was used in substitution of [in place of] reference samples of her hair, [which were] not considered to be authentic samples of her hair.

    No hair was recovered from the pillow-case SJM/1 nor the hairbrush SJM/36. So the only hair used as comparison was the hair from the tops (which I assume means shirts?) Hair from a brush that was more than likely used by all the McCanns (just speculation here) but nontheless, not a reliable sample.

    A total number of twelve [12] hairs or hair fragments were recovered from the tops SJM/2, SJM/4 and SJM/5. All of these appeared to be hair and not down, being mainly blonde in colour. One of the hairs was brown and distinctly darker than the other hairs, suggesting, at the least, that this was a hair from someone else.

    The remaining eleven hairs/fragments varied in length from 4 millimetres to 45 millimetres [~1/8" to ~1,3/4"]. I could not conclude that all hairs were from the same person. So these hairs were used in substitution of the "reference" hairs - when there was no value to them???? If they had been from Madeleine McCann, then they are not representative/typical/characteristic of a sample of her hair, given the length of that seen in photographs of her.

    Objects from the Renault Scenic - licence plate 59-DA-27
    The following objects recovered from the scenic were subjected to examination:
    1A, 1B, 1C, 1D,
    2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 2E,
    3,
    4A, 4B, 4C,
    5A, 5B, 5C,
    6A, 6B, 6C,
    7A, 7B, 7C,
    8A, 8B, 8C,
    9 and
    11 (2 objects).

    There were more than two hundred hairs, down or fragments of hair and down. The majority appeared to be different from the blonde reference hairs recovered from SJM2, 4 and 5 which were unreliable samples, apparently to begin with. Furthermore, no blonde hair consistent with that seen in photographs of Madeleine McCann was found. So does this mean that this blonde hair was yellow blonde or red blonde or something different than Maddie's blond hair? What was the difference? It had to be a significant difference if the difference could be determined by a visual comparison with a photograph.

    Approximately 15 hairs, down or fragments were blonde and fair, presenting a similarity with the reference material. Which, see comments above, were UNRELIABLE. All were of insufficient length to make a solid [definitive] comparison. Furthermore, they are too short to do mitocondrial DNA tests. I'm not sure I believe this given the forensics done in the Caylee case. This facility is supposed to be tops in the world and for all intents and purposes I would say our Quintana FBI labs would knock these guys out of the water - no questions asked! Folicle root material is insufficient for standard DNA tests.

    Four hairs - one from 7B and three from 7C - were sent for Low Copy Number DNA testing. The results of those tests will be presented by my colleague John Lowe. So where are these results?

    Conclusion
    In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs similar to the reference hairs again, unreliable samples so why did they continue to use them for comparison???? from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine McCann. The forensics lab in the Caylee case put a hair under a microscope and announced that it was structurally similar to Caylee's hair. Why could this lab not do the same? Why were their samples so unreliable? Why could not the McCann's produce one reliable piece of hair from Maddie's head? It is obvious they brushed her hair, at least on occasion or it would not have been in pigtails.

    The conclusions expressed in the present deposition are based on information available at the date of the examination. In the case that there are changes to that information, or additional information becomes available, it may be necessary to reconsider my interpretation and conclusions. That re-evaluation will be most effective when done immediately prior to any judgement. Well, yes, it is necessary to reconsider this guy's interpretation because, myself, as a lay person, am completely astounded by this person's audacity in writting such a report that is worth less than the paper it is written on.

    A.L. Palmer
    *******
    None of the hair tested could be identified as Madeleine's.

    And I wonder who started the "rumour," and why? that the FSS in Birmingham were not equipped to test hair.
    I started that "rumor" and I stand by it (actually maybe I didn't start it, but I wholeheartedly continue to support it). This "expert" couldn't even compare Maddie's hair structure under a microscope. I firmly believe the FSS duped the PLE in this testing of forensic evidence.

    Nothing amazing here.........

    Salem

  2. #62
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    I know, I have seen all this stuff before April and I remain, the same as I ever was.

    Other than the quote of the day I try to post mostly "new" news...

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by april4sky View Post
    Forensic Scientist's statement from the DVD

    ~snip

    Conclusion
    In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs similar to the reference hairs from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine McCann.

    ~snip
    None of the hair tested could be identified as Madeleine's.

    And I wonder who started the "rumour," and why? that the FSS in Birmingham were not equipped to test hair.
    To me that reads like the FSS was unable to perform the tests not that they performed the test with negative results.

    That's probably where the "rumor" originated....

  4. #64
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    april4sky is offline It is not who is right, but what is right, that is of importance
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    My bold, highlighting, etc. and snipping I started that "rumor" and I stand by it (actually maybe I didn't start it, but I wholeheartedly continue to support it). This "expert" couldn't even compare Maddie's hair structure under a microscope. I firmly believe the FSS duped the PLE in this testing of forensic evidence.

    Nothing amazing here.........

    Salem
    They could only test the samples they were given Salem! Who collected the samples?

    Your theory only works if you buy into "conspiracy theories"....and therefore read into the results whatever you choose....and for that you don't need "evidence"

    Many people have been smeared with accusations that they have supposedly lied and conspired to save the McCanns....
    ....Even Prime minister Gordon Brown, Clarence Mitchell, the British media in its entirity, the Tapas 9, some of the MW staff, the Ocean Club staff and others.

    It's no surprise then that this list now includes the World Renowned FSS in Birmingham......Oh yes the FSS are going to jeopardize their well deserved reputation to help the McCanns.
    I don't think so!!

    Wasn't there another false "rumour" doing the rounds too that the FSS in Birmingham were not equipped to test hair?
    Amazing how quiet it's gone about this particular claim.

    Even for you Salem isn't it all begining to sound more than a little ridiculous.
    Last edited by april4sky; 01-29-2009 at 06:12 AM. Reason: spelling correction

    .....Madeleine McCann.....

  5. #65
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    april4sky is offline It is not who is right, but what is right, that is of importance
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    Quote Originally Posted by colomom View Post
    To me that reads like the FSS was unable to perform the tests not that they performed the test with negative results.

    That's probably where the "rumor" originated....
    Here are some pictures of the (broken, smashed, jemmied) shutters I have collected Tex:



    Close-up of the only fingerprint found, Kate McCann's:



    Crime scene picture:

    __________________
    Or maybe it started here colomom.

    You claimed it was Kate's fingerprint.....Post No. 6 on the "Looking back thread."

    You can't have seen any "confirmation" that it was Kate's fingerprint.

    .....Madeleine McCann.....

  6. #66
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    april4sky is offline It is not who is right, but what is right, that is of importance
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claycat View Post
    Wow, that's interesting information about the hair and the fingerprints, April!
    Hi Claycat.

    It is interesting now that we're getting the hear the actual truth of what was found.

    It backs up the conclusion in the Final Report.

    .....Madeleine McCann.....

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by april4sky View Post
    Here are some pictures of the (broken, smashed, jemmied) shutters I have collected Tex:



    Close-up of the only fingerprint found, Kate McCann's:



    Crime scene picture:

    __________________
    Or maybe it started here colomom.

    You claimed it was Kate's fingerprint.....Post No. 6 on the "Looking back thread."

    You can't have seen any "confirmation" that it was Kate's fingerprint.
    Setting aside the fingerprint issue for a minute, those shutter photos are the same ones already posted, April.

    They don't look damaged, smashed, or jemmied to me. JMO.

    FWIW ,the last time, the correct spelling is "jimmied."

    I don't know why that bothers me.

  8. #68
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    Hi April, Salem, Colomom and Texana,

    I've been taking a bit of a break from the case but always check in to see what you guys have to say and see whaz up!

    It is so hard to see almost nothing cookin', and thought the wheels were supposedly grinding away behind closed doors. Hopefully that is happening and we just haven't heard yet.

    Is there any news about the Cipriano case and Amaral? Anything more about the paper Justine left under the couch in the villa and the possibility Madeleine is at rest near the Spanish border?

    I am ready for something BIG to BREAK. Good Golly Miss Molly, ain't it about time for that?


    Scandi

  9. #69
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    april4sky is offline It is not who is right, but what is right, that is of importance
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texana View Post
    Setting aside the fingerprint issue for a minute, those shutter photos are the same ones already posted, April.

    They don't look damaged, smashed, or jemmied to me. JMO.

    FWIW ,the last time, the correct spelling is "jimmied."

    I don't know why that bothers me.
    I know the photo's have been posted before Texana.
    It's the claim below the picture that is the issue so I don't think we can set it aside.

    That's because as part of the "big picture" it's claims like this one that have damaged the search for Madeleine IMO.

    I wonder how many people believed it?

    I think we need to remember that these are real people's lives that are being affected.

    I don't know where colomom picked up this particular smear...but just a couple of guesses....it's either a hate forum or a hate blog.

    It's impossible for us to tell if the shutters had been Jemmied/Jimmied. We also don't know the condition of them, as in worn/poor.

    Not sure of the correct spelling Texana ...it's possibly just an across the pond pronunciation difference, as in "Tomato."
    But Jemmied sounds right to me.

    Just checked on google...
    Noun 1. jemmy - a short crowbar; "in Britain they call a jimmy and jemmy"
    .....So I guess both are correct.

    "If" Kate herself made the statement about the shutters there's nothing wrong with that. I have only read this particular word attributed to her but I would think it would have been perfectly natural under the awful circumstances to wonder if an abducter had entered or left that way.
    Last edited by april4sky; 01-29-2009 at 06:15 AM. Reason: added

    .....Madeleine McCann.....

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by april4sky View Post
    I know the photo's have been posted before Texana.
    It's the claim below the picture that is the issue so I don't think we can set it aside.

    That's because as part of the "big picture" it's claims like this one that have damaged the search for Madeleine IMO.

    I wonder how many people believed it?

    I think we need to remember that these are real people's lives that are being affected.

    I don't know where colomom picked up this particular smear...but just a couple of guesses....it's either a hate forum or a hate blog.

    It's impossible for us to tell if the shutters had been Jemmied/Jimmied. We also don't know the condition of them, as in worn/poor.

    Not sure of the correct spelling Texana ...it's possibly just an across the pond pronunciation difference, as in "Tomato."
    But Jemmied sounds right to me.

    Just checked on google...
    Noun 1. jemmy - a short crowbar; "in Britain they call a jimmy and jemmy"
    .....So I guess both are correct.

    "If" Kate herself made the statement about the shutters there's nothing wrong with that. I have only read this particular word attributed to her but I would think it would have been perfectly natural under the awful circumstances to wonder if an abducter had entered or left that way.
    Isn't that strange how that happens. You read a statement from so many sources that you forget where it originally came from. I did a basic search and while there were many hits, you were right, most were from blogs (I wouldn't goes as far as referring to them as "a hate forum or a hate blog") and I could not easily put my hands on another source. I suppose even if I could find one someone would find a reason to discredit that source. Besides, so what...Kate's fingerprint "may" have been found on the shutter of the apartment they had been living in....that does not prove a thing. She could have touched the window, opening it from the inside 2 or 3 days earlier. While some might consider it more appropriate to phrase the caption like this: "Close-up of the only fingerprint found, which was allegedly Kate McCann's"

    I seriously doubt if my posting on an insignificant (to the McCanns) forum will be the end of them. They probably could care less. I know I would have much more important things on my mind. Like what people were saying in my own country.

    So it is a good thing that my posts are all signed: All of my posts are simply, my opinion. I just want to make sure there is no misunderstanding.

    And finally, I would hope that no one would make any kind of final judgements about anybody involved in this case based on a forum post. One would hope that people would take the time to read as much as they could get their hands on and then decide for themselves what they think may have happened. Then they can post their ideas on a forum and people can discuss/dismiss/agree/disagree....


  11. #71
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    Respectfully snipped ~
    Quote Originally Posted by april4sky View Post
    They could only test the samples they were given Salem! Who collected the samples?

    Your theory only works if you buy into "conspiracy theories"....and therefore read into the results whatever you choose....and for that you don't need "evidence"

    Wasn't there another false "rumour" doing the rounds too that the FSS in Birmingham were not equipped to test hair?
    Amazing how quiet it's gone about this particular claim.

    Even for you Salem isn't it all begining to sound more than a little ridiculous.
    Well April - in this particular case, I am going with the conspiracy theory on why the McCanns were not held accountable. I read the report and highlighted the discrepancies and the "expert's" doubletalk. Read the report critically - the expert blatently tells you why there were no results. AND I stand by the "rumour" that the FSS apparently is not equipped to test hair. They traded unreliable samples for uncertain samples. Apparently they could not review the hair with a working microscope.... the report goes on. If I performed science like this, I wouldn't expect to get results either. So why weren't the tests performed in an acceptable, scientific manner? And why wasn't it explained in a manner that was easily understandable? It is my firm opinion, which will not change without further explanation from the FSS, that the FSS purposely cluttered up these tests in order to hide either the truth of the matter or protect the McCanns for whatever reason. I don't know why they would do that, but as far as I am concerned, the EVIDENCE is in the very report you posted earlier and I responded to in red because the whole thing makes me angry! I have no faith in the FSS!

    Quote Originally Posted by scandi View Post
    Hi April, Salem, Colomom and Texana,

    I've been taking a bit of a break from the case but always check in to see what you guys have to say and see whaz up!

    It is so hard to see almost nothing cookin', and thought the wheels were supposedly grinding away behind closed doors. Hopefully that is happening and we just haven't heard yet.

    Is there any news about the Cipriano case and Amaral? Anything more about the paper Justine left under the couch in the villa and the possibility Madeleine is at rest near the Spanish border?

    I am ready for something BIG to BREAK. Good Golly Miss Molly, ain't it about time for that?


    Scandi
    Hi Scandi

    I am ready for a break also! Anything! I want this baby to come home NOW!

    Salem

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    Respectfully snipped ~

    Well April - in this particular case, I am going with the conspiracy theory on why the McCanns were not held accountable. I read the report and highlighted the discrepancies and the "expert's" doubletalk. Read the report critically - the expert blatently tells you why there were no results. AND I stand by the "rumour" that the FSS apparently is not equipped to test hair. They traded unreliable samples for uncertain samples. Apparently they could not review the hair with a working microscope.... the report goes on. If I performed science like this, I wouldn't expect to get results either. So why weren't the tests performed in an acceptable, scientific manner? And why wasn't it explained in a manner that was easily understandable? It is my firm opinion, which will not change without further explanation from the FSS, that the FSS purposely cluttered up these tests in order to hide either the truth of the matter or protect the McCanns for whatever reason. I don't know why they would do that, but as far as I am concerned, the EVIDENCE is in the very report you posted earlier and I responded to in red because the whole thing makes me angry! I have no faith in the FSS!



    Hi Scandi

    I am ready for a break also! Anything! I want this baby to come home NOW!

    Salem


    YaYa min vann


    About that hair. I still have reservations as to what FSS learned about it.


    I think we will agree there was great impetus on the part of the McCann's and their staff to minimize anything about the case that might implicate them or even make them look bad. Pressures from their powerful friends for instance. And I think FSS also felt the brunt of their agressive tactics.

    The reason I say that is there was a link stating the hair found in the boot of the car was Madeleine's. It was in mid-September soon after they were made Arguidos. Plus, at ForMadeleine we had a poster who was affiliated with the GNR in Portugal who confirmed to us this was true. He had also given us this info a few days before it was published in the paper.

    The way I look at it, what the public knows about these particulars means nothing even tho we want to know everything! The Prosecutor has all the facts and correct info which is what counts.

    Someday when the political pressures in the case from both England and Portugal are relaxed the truth will come out IMO. I was so hoping both Tony and Amaral's hard work in the case would be the breakthrough to open things up.

    Hope springs eternal, and I won't give up on this happening so Madeleine will finally have her JUSTICE.


    XOX

  13. #73
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    april4sky is offline It is not who is right, but what is right, that is of importance
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    Quote Originally Posted by colomom View Post
    Isn't that strange how that happens.
    Er! no I don't think so.
    (I wouldn't goes as far as referring to them as "a hate forum or a hate blog")
    I'm sure you wouldn't colomom.
    and I could not easily put my hands on another source.
    Well not on a hate site.
    Besides, so what...Kate's fingerprint "may" have been found on the shutter
    And this from someone who proclaimes by her name that she is "Seeker of the Truth" Sorry colomom but I think you "may" have lost your way a loooong time ago
    While some might consider it more appropriate to phrase the caption like this: "Close-up of the only fingerprint found, which was allegedly Kate McCann's"
    Allegedly by whom? But even that would have been more in keeping with someone who was seeking the truth.
    I seriously doubt if my posting on an insignificant (to the McCanns) forum will be the end of them. They probably could care less. I know I would have much more important things on my mind. Like what people were saying in my own country.
    Mmmmm. But then it's not you who's on the receiving end of false information/accusations.
    So it is a good thing that my posts are all signed: All of my posts are simply, my opinion. I just want to make sure there is no misunderstanding.
    Well it's certainly handy but has nothing to do with false claims as they are not opinions.
    And finally, I would hope that no one would make any kind of final judgements about anybody involved in this case based on a forum post. One would hope that people would take the time to read as much as they could get their hands on and then decide for themselves what they think may have happened. Then they can post their ideas on a forum and people can discuss/dismiss/agree/disagree....
    I would hope that too colomom, but we both know that life isn't like that....you only have to read back a few posts to know that.

    And if you don't believe me that posting or printing their theories/opinions without making it very clear that's all they are, you could "if you choose to of course" check this out.

    As posted on the.....
    http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/talk...canns-856.html
    Post 8557.

    This is part of a letter that Tony Bennett says he received from someone after reading his Er! “pamphlet”

    *****
    “I have an eBay site where I carried a Maddie McCann missing poster since week one, as I have worldwide customers. I have now removed it”

    *****

    If this is a genuine letter he received as a result of his “pamphlet” of “theories” it proves that the search for Madeleine has been damaged.

    He doesn’t seem fazed that Madeleines poster has been removed because of his “pamphlet”….in fact he seems eager to share the news.
    Unbelievable that this particular point doesn’t even seem to have registered with him…


    Madeleine”…….


    ......It should be all about finding her….No matter what happened…..
    How sad/sick that it’s come to this!!!

    For the record I am not a member of the forum…though Tony Bennett is.
    It’s not a Madeleine site but a Political forum….And not normally my cup of tea.
    Google led me there and this particular thread is the only one discussing Madeleine’s case.....It seems to have started after a poster asked a question...But boy has it caught fire!! Over 900 pages to date!
    And very, very, enlightening so far.
    Last edited by april4sky; 01-30-2009 at 06:54 AM. Reason: amended

    .....Madeleine McCann.....

  14. #74
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    I'm not thinking any of the posters put out to find Madeleine would have ever done the job. I think it is very telling they used photos that were not current, showing a much younger girl to the world than she was. WHY?

    Even the tennis ball photo. I have read it most likely was not taken on that Holiday as the lighting is wrong for Portugal at that time of year.

    Madeleine from age 2.5 up to 3.5 was one adorable little beauty, especially photogenic. As she approached age 4 she began to change to have more of a 'big girl look'. That wasn't the image the parents wanted to project to the public IMO. They used what they thought best to raise $$'s and create a media love affair with the precious sweetheart she was in her younger years.


    All my opinion and giving respect to everyone's ideas on the case ;}

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    Quote Originally Posted by scandi View Post
    I'm not thinking any of the posters put out to find Madeleine would have ever done the job. I think it is very telling they used photos that were not current, showing a much younger girl to the world than she was. WHY?

    Even the tennis ball photo. I have read it most likely was not taken on that Holiday as the lighting is wrong for Portugal at that time of year.

    Madeleine from age 2.5 up to 3.5 was one adorable little beauty, especially photogenic. As she approached age 4 she began to change to have more of a 'big girl look'. That wasn't the image the parents wanted to project to the public IMO. They used what they thought best to raise $$'s and create a media love affair with the precious sweetheart she was in her younger years.


    All my opinion and giving respect to everyone's ideas on the case ;}

    Interesting point and I think well worth considering.

    Especially if they didn't actually need to find Madeleine because they knew where she was--

    Again--Maddie's height and weight were never released. Never. Look at any missing child photo and see if that information is left out.

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