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The Killing Season - Websleuths

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  1. #1
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    Personal Reports from Members about the Crime Scene

    I am from nearby the Orlando area and had business in the Orlando today so I thought after I was finished I would take a tour of the crime scmene. I am close follower of the case and participated in the November searches.

    I choose to park my vehicle at a convenience store on the corner of Curry Ford and Chickasaw and walk to the site. I heard some mumbling somewhere about hassles parking near the scene so I decided to do this instead of worrying about the parking. Needless to say, it was a long walk, longer than I had estimated. The weather today though was beautiful so not a problem.

    I had known before, and the walk solidified this idea, that pretty much the entire surrounding area is low-middle income housing, with the A's house fairly in the middle range of what I saw on my walk. All the neighborhoods from where I parked to the actual scene where what I would term 'nice'. By that I mean I saw no cars on blocks, or ratty exteriors, or really bad lawns, etc. None. Interspersed here and there where a few upper middle class homes, and past Suburban drive there is a newer section with upper middle apts and homes. Orlando has more than one neighborhood like this where there is a mixture, in an integrated fashion, of houses with mixed income levels.

    I had actually parked South of Suburban first and started to walk from that direction but needed to pee so walked back to my car. Along that walk I past several open fields and noticed trails into them here and there and got the impression that these where formed from people entering from the sidewalk prior searches, some months ago. I saw a few wild elephant ear plants here and there that show up also in the crime scene photos. These plants are dark green are prominent near the wood fence. At this time, no water anywhere but significant evidence of past standing water. Joggers down the sidewalks.

    When I finally got Suburban, I could see all the way from Chickasaw some media vehicles across a retention pond perhaps 150 meters distant. At the time there where two of them. I rounded the corner of Suburban and Chickasaw and the impression registered on me, and as reported by the media, of how close everything is relative to my imaginings. It takes only about one minute on foot to traverse from Chickasaw/Suburban to the crime scene.

    I past a News 13 reported on the opposite side of the road from the crime scene on the sidewalk. He says nothing and I pass him. I study the retention pond water level and note just with my eyes it is about the same elevation as the crime scene some 20 meters in front and to the left. There is a concrete drain right off the sidewalk the empties into the pond and where this pipe originates from is a mystery, but the angle suggest it's source is across the road near the crime scene perhaps connected via the storm drain. From the map perspective, the drain orientation is southeast to northwest.

    The sidewalk is the standard 'small' width sidewalk, perhaps 3 feet wide. These are not normally the size sidewalks where there is a lot of jogging activity (it would be wider). I walk past the crime scene on the sidewalk on the opposite side of the road. In the back of my mind I picture the psychics video and connect it to what I am seeing now. The storm drain cover is significant landmark, there is one on both sides of the street and on the opposite side the manhole cover is less than 5 meters away from the crime scene. From what I can tell the psychic got out 25 meters up the road from the scene. I see a grassy area near there that looks like the place where she got out with the dog. I note that in her video the dog starts to act up a nearly the exact spot of the crime scene (where the kid say turn up the air, the dog is getting sick).

    I loop back around when past the crime scene and get on the opposite side of the road. I study the state of the woods say five meters off the road. The woods start in earnest just two meters off the road and I can see into the woods a good 20 meters in places (now, maybe not in summer). There is loads of trash in the woods; I see the ubiquitous beer bottle, a beach umbrella, some sort of plastic bin, a plastic laundry basket before I lose interest. If there some sort of significance attached to a solitary plastic bag, that is just BS. If I randomly jumped into the woods there and fell over I would probably land on one.

    There were what looked like water marks on the tree trunks, more like 18 inches rather than the waist deep the neighborhood kid reported. When I approached the crime scene, it looked as if a bush hog had scraped the entire area clean. There was some construction blocks nearby where I think the remains where found, and a small memorial. I did not look at the memorial that carefully.

    I did note that pulling of the road here would be a dicey proposition. Any car say 5 meters to 2 meters in front of the man hole cover would get stuck in on the dropoff that occurs just. The curb is too high at the manhole cover and necks down maybe a meter on either side. So, it seems like there is about a 3 meter swath just past the manhole where you could back into the woods with a car and get out without getting stuck. The only way to do that would be during daylight, otherwise you risk getting stuck.

    To me, the disposal HAD to be done by just pulling off to the side of the road. On the ground, even near the woods, that position would expose the vehicle to line of site of several homes and even as far as Chickasaw across the retention pond. It had to be a panic decision it seems to me to risk doing this, especially during daylight, or someone exceptionally daring. Also, it would be impossible to simply sling the load ... it had to be carried in, ny guess from a rabbit trail near the tree that had the police tape on it.

    I decided despite my feet to walk down HopeSpring and see the A home. Again, NICE neighborhood. Mature trees, and not just palms; neat yards; quiet. I did notice dogs barking near the corner and for a moment that caught my attention (could you park at the crime scene without setting this off?)

    My impression of the home, although having saw it numerous times on TV, was significant in that I felt 'non-plussed'. The exterior, relative to the others in the neighborhood, seemed only 'average' in terms of it's upkeep; the grass was middle of the road and there was a functioning basketball goal on the driveway, net intact (who uses this now, I wondered). The missing posters are still in the front door. This seemed to contrast with the pin neat pictures of the interior that I saw on the internet. If G was doing the outside and C the inside, this impression solidifies a lot of what I heard on threads concerning G. Nothing bad, just nothing that stood out either. There was one new truck on the lawn.

    What struck me after walking back from the home was the vibe I got about the relative LACK of INTEREST I felt in the neighborhood. Given that the entire world knows about this, I suspect that some guy in Germany knows more about it than the guy two doors down. The effort of the A's with the sign on the front door, seemed so not even half-assed. I did not see a similar sign anywhere else. Contrasting, the memorial, what remains, on Suburban and Hopespring, is a work of art, especially the artifacts of a religious bent. I did not start bawling or anything, but it to me was artful and powerful simultaneous. A got a tinge of what I felt when I visited Dealy [sp?] in Dallas. I notice a certain reverence when people approached the crime scene.

    Glad I made the trip.
    Last edited by JBean; 01-04-2009 at 03:07 PM.

  2. #2
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    So I drove past the crime scene this morning

    I had to pick someone up at the airport and arrived about 45 minutes early so I took a detour and followed Lee Vista to Chickasaw to Suburban. I had not been out there since Dec 12 and at that time you couldn't get near the scene. It was chaotic and highly energized. This time it was quiet and I was able to really feel the area.

    Once you turn on Chickasaw from Lee Vista, it's about two miles to Suburban. As I made that turn my stomach began to churn. And when I turned onto Suburban I began to shake. As I approached the intersection of Hopespring and Suburban I could see a memorial on each side of Hopespring.

    The area where Caylee was found is just beyond that intersection- maybe 20 yards or so. It is definitely much closer to Hopespring than to the dead end and well before the entrance to Hidden Oaks Elementary school.

    What surprised me is this- the area that was cleared was NO WAY even close to an acre. Not even 1/2 or 1/4 acre. It was about the size of a large above ground swimming pool. I know it was reported that they found evidence in an area an acre in size but I don't know how they did that. Caylee was very close to the road- definitely not 60 feet- maybe 30-40 feet at the most.

    However, the woods are very dense there. You cannot see clearly more than 4 or 5 feet into the untouched areas because of all the scrub and palmetto bushes. It is absolutely plausible to me that her body sat there with nobody noticing. When you turn right off of Hopespring onto Suburban it goes about 1/8 or 1/4 of a mile before it dead ends. There is nothing other than woods on the right and the bus loop entrance to the elementary school on the left at the very end.

    Once school closed at the end of May or beginning of June, there was no reason for anybody to pass by there as the entrance to the bus loop is gated and the main entrance to the school is on the other side. The playground/school grounds are not open to the public when the school is closed. I cannot imagine kids playing in or near those woods since it is so dense and low lying. So yes, I do believe Caylee would not have been noticed.

    I also think it would have been very easy for Casey to dump the body here without anybody noticing. Since nobody would have any reason to drive past there when school is closed she could have easily parked with her car facing Hopespring, opened the trunk and unloaded a bag with her daughter's remains in broad daylight and nobody would have seen her.

    I did not see anything round nailed to a tree but I did see what looked like a short (2ft hi) lattice type landscape fence that was propped up against a tree closer to the dead end. And I did notice the chain link fence closer to the dead end but not close to where Caylee was found. It is shiny and new- must have been put up very recently as those things tend to look tarnished and rusty after a year or so.

    The physical response I had to being in that area was intense. My body was shaking when I drove past there and it took about 30 minutes after I left before I felt normal again. That area is absolutely full of strong signs that something horrible happened there. I felt no peace, I felt a very angry vibration in the air. I can't explain it and I won't even try to speculate or place a source for that deep feeling- but it is not restful and calm. It is highly charged in a way I've never felt before. And I don't know if I can imagine that area ever feeling peaceful again.

    And I am generally a very calm person- I rarely react so physically to anything- and if I do, it doesn't last as long as this did.

    I wonder if any other sleuthers felt the same when/if they visited the area.

  3. #3
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    Nov 2008
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    270
    I agree that it would be difficult/impossible to see anything from the road as you walk or drive by. I drove past the Anthony home a few months ago and I turned onto Suburban to make a u-turn. I was very creeped out when I learned later that Caylee was there. I didnt have any "feelings" but of course that was before they found her and I am not one to have psychic type feelings or anything.

    I have been planning on driving past again but havent gotten over there yet. Its about 20 min away from me.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirate View Post
    I had to pick someone up at the airport and arrived about 45 minutes early so I took a detour and followed Lee Vista to Chickasaw to Suburban. I had not been out there since Dec 12 and at that time you couldn't get near the scene. It was chaotic and highly energized. This time it was quiet and I was able to really feel the area.

    Once you turn on Chickasaw from Lee Vista, it's about two miles to Suburban. As I made that turn my stomach began to churn. And when I turned onto Suburban I began to shake. As I approached the intersection of Hopespring and Suburban I could see a memorial on each side of Hopespring.

    The area where Caylee was found is just beyond that intersection- maybe 20 yards or so. It is definitely much closer to Hopespring than to the dead end and well before the entrance to Hidden Oaks Elementary school.

    What surprised me is this- the area that was cleared was NO WAY even close to an acre. Not even 1/2 or 1/4 acre. It was about the size of a large above ground swimming pool. I know it was reported that they found evidence in an area an acre in size but I don't know how they did that. Caylee was very close to the road- definitely not 60 feet- maybe 30-40 feet at the most.

    However, the woods are very dense there. You cannot see clearly more than 4 or 5 feet into the untouched areas because of all the scrub and palmetto bushes. It is absolutely plausible to me that her body sat there with nobody noticing. When you turn right off of Hopespring onto Suburban it goes about 1/8 or 1/4 of a mile before it dead ends. There is nothing other than woods on the right and the bus loop entrance to the elementary school on the left at the very end.

    Once school closed at the end of May or beginning of June, there was no reason for anybody to pass by there as the entrance to the bus loop is gated and the main entrance to the school is on the other side. The playground/school grounds are not open to the public when the school is closed. I cannot imagine kids playing in or near those woods since it is so dense and low lying. So yes, I do believe Caylee would not have been noticed.

    I also think it would have been very easy for Casey to dump the body here without anybody noticing. Since nobody would have any reason to drive past there when school is closed she could have easily parked with her car facing Hopespring, opened the trunk and unloaded a bag with her daughter's remains in broad daylight and nobody would have seen her.

    I did not see anything round nailed to a tree but I did see what looked like a short (2ft hi) lattice type landscape fence that was propped up against a tree closer to the dead end. And I did notice the chain link fence closer to the dead end but not close to where Caylee was found. It is shiny and new- must have been put up very recently as those things tend to look tarnished and rusty after a year or so.

    The physical response I had to being in that area was intense. My body was shaking when I drove past there and it took about 30 minutes after I left before I felt normal again. That area is absolutely full of strong signs that something horrible happened there. I felt no peace, I felt a very angry vibration in the air. I can't explain it and I won't even try to speculate or place a source for that deep feeling- but it is not restful and calm. It is highly charged in a way I've never felt before. And I don't know if I can imagine that area ever feeling peaceful again.

    And I am generally a very calm person- I rarely react so physically to anything- and if I do, it doesn't last as long as this did.

    I wonder if any other sleuthers felt the same when/if they visited the area.
    Thank you for your post. It does clear up how her body could have laid there. Because no one would really be in that area with school closed it would also help explain why no odor was noticed. Makes me wonder though why would the meter reader be there? Could you see any reason for it?

    I am sorry the scene gave off such bad vibes, I guess a normal's persons reaction would be similar to yours. KC could probably gone to the area & chatted on her cell & not had a care in the world. I pray Caylee's gentle soul has crossed over peacefully.

  5. #5
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    Aug 2008
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    Central Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirate View Post
    I had to pick someone up at the airport and arrived about 45 minutes early so I took a detour and followed Lee Vista to Chickasaw to Suburban. I had not been out there since Dec 12 and at that time you couldn't get near the scene. It was chaotic and highly energized. This time it was quiet and I was able to really feel the area.

    Once you turn on Chickasaw from Lee Vista, it's about two miles to Suburban. As I made that turn my stomach began to churn. And when I turned onto Suburban I began to shake. As I approached the intersection of Hopespring and Suburban I could see a memorial on each side of Hopespring.

    The area where Caylee was found is just beyond that intersection- maybe 20 yards or so. It is definitely much closer to Hopespring than to the dead end and well before the entrance to Hidden Oaks Elementary school.

    What surprised me is this- the area that was cleared was NO WAY even close to an acre. Not even 1/2 or 1/4 acre. It was about the size of a large above ground swimming pool. I know it was reported that they found evidence in an area an acre in size but I don't know how they did that. Caylee was very close to the road- definitely not 60 feet- maybe 30-40 feet at the most.

    However, the woods are very dense there. You cannot see clearly more than 4 or 5 feet into the untouched areas because of all the scrub and palmetto bushes. It is absolutely plausible to me that her body sat there with nobody noticing. When you turn right off of Hopespring onto Suburban it goes about 1/8 or 1/4 of a mile before it dead ends. There is nothing other than woods on the right and the bus loop entrance to the elementary school on the left at the very end.

    Once school closed at the end of May or beginning of June, there was no reason for anybody to pass by there as the entrance to the bus loop is gated and the main entrance to the school is on the other side. The playground/school grounds are not open to the public when the school is closed. I cannot imagine kids playing in or near those woods since it is so dense and low lying. So yes, I do believe Caylee would not have been noticed.

    I also think it would have been very easy for Casey to dump the body here without anybody noticing. Since nobody would have any reason to drive past there when school is closed she could have easily parked with her car facing Hopespring, opened the trunk and unloaded a bag with her daughter's remains in broad daylight and nobody would have seen her.

    I did not see anything round nailed to a tree but I did see what looked like a short (2ft hi) lattice type landscape fence that was propped up against a tree closer to the dead end. And I did notice the chain link fence closer to the dead end but not close to where Caylee was found. It is shiny and new- must have been put up very recently as those things tend to look tarnished and rusty after a year or so.

    The physical response I had to being in that area was intense. My body was shaking when I drove past there and it took about 30 minutes after I left before I felt normal again. That area is absolutely full of strong signs that something horrible happened there. I felt no peace, I felt a very angry vibration in the air. I can't explain it and I won't even try to speculate or place a source for that deep feeling- but it is not restful and calm. It is highly charged in a way I've never felt before. And I don't know if I can imagine that area ever feeling peaceful again.

    And I am generally a very calm person- I rarely react so physically to anything- and if I do, it doesn't last as long as this did.

    I wonder if any other sleuthers felt the same when/if they visited the area.
    Thanks Pirate. My DH described the area just as you did. No way the area they cleared out where the remains were found, was even close to an acre in size. DH described it as about 30 feet wide, by about 17 ft. deep, 15 ft. in from the road, which sounds like what you've described.

    Not sure why, but I just can't seem to get myself to go over there just yet. I have no doubt that the area is a highly negatively energized place to be.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaKatz View Post
    Thanks Pirate. My DH described the area just as you did. No way the area they cleared out where the remains were found, was even close to an acre in size. DH described it as about 30 feet wide, by about 17 ft. deep, 15 ft. in from the road, which sounds like what you've described.

    Not sure why, but I just can't seem to get myself to go over there just yet. I have no doubt that the area is a highly negatively energized place to be.
    I don't know much about this sort of stuff, but isn't something like sage supposed to cleanse an area of evil? Maybe someone here knows a lot about what can be done to bring more positive energy there & let little Caylee know she can be at peace.

  7. #7
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    You guys are so brave.

    I can read and listen to everything about this case, but I know I couldn't go there.

    TY for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

  8. #8
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    Since it is well known most mom's dispose of their children's bodies very close to home, I wonder why tracking dogs were not used, starting at the home & following them out. I know they did search an area out by the school but I saw LE with dogs in a pretty wide open area with woods on the sides. Why would they not have used dogs from the home to see where they led?

  9. #9
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    Pirate, I moved another posters very detailed description of their tour of the crime scene. this is an interesting topic. Since their post was before yours, it merged it into the top spot, so sorry if I messed up your chi Just trying to put this most interesting discussion together.

  10. #10
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    Thank you for describing the scene/area to those of us who live on the other side of the country, and wish we could have a better idea of how it looks/feels etc. I sure hope Caylee will be able to rest in peace also. Maybe peace will come when her so-called mother will be made to pay for what she has done to poor little sweet Caylee. We can only hope and pray that justice will be served. We love you Caylee.

    Jodi


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirate View Post
    However, the woods are very dense there. You cannot see clearly more than 4 or 5 feet into the untouched areas because of all the scrub and palmetto bushes. It is absolutely plausible to me that her body sat there with nobody noticing.

    This is interesting in relation to the meter reader. Why couldn't, or didn't, he say what that suspicious round white thing was - if he was only 4-5 feet away from it?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLe1953 View Post
    I don't know much about this sort of stuff, but isn't something like sage supposed to cleanse an area of evil? Maybe someone here knows a lot about what can be done to bring more positive energy there & let little Caylee know she can be at peace.
    You are right, sage is considered to be very cleansing in certain belief systems. If I recall correctly, though, sage is usually burned and waved around an area to cleanse it. Unfortunately, as it is private property, there is no chance of anyone being able to burn sage there or even plant some in and around the site. That's a shame because it might be worth doing and leave a pretty memorial (some sage blooms with tiny purple flowers) at the same time.
    Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.
    Euripides

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLe1953 View Post
    Thank you for your post. It does clear up how her body could have laid there. Because no one would really be in that area with school closed it would also help explain why no odor was noticed. Makes me wonder though why would the meter reader be there? Could you see any reason for it?

    I am sorry the scene gave off such bad vibes, I guess a normal's persons reaction would be similar to yours. KC could probably gone to the area & chatted on her cell & not had a care in the world. I pray Caylee's gentle soul has crossed over peacefully.

    I tend to be sensitive to my sixth sense but I am far from psychic- maybe I would be better described as intuitive and very empathetic. I don't have a hard time trying to feel someone elses pain or hurt. I've been that way since I was a child. And it's not happy feelings that I absorb- it's sadness. Very strange, because overall I'm a happy and positive person. I've considered talking with a paranormal expert to find out why I do this but I'm afraid......

    My point is, I wonder if the MR has a similar sensitivity to mine. I've never been compelled to search for a body but I've also never been in a position that might have led me to one either. From the beginning I've believed that something not of this world was pulling him to that place. For me, it's hard to talk about my senses because I'm afraid people will think I'm a little loony- that could easily explain why he let it go for four months but returned in December.

    However, it's also very plausible that during his work reading meters this would have been a quiet, out of the way place for him to stop and eat lunch and have enough privacy to take a bathroom break. There are not public bathrooms or businesses with bathrooms within 2-3 miles of that area.


    As for the last sentence of your post that I bolded, I'm really afraid that the unrest I felt in that area may be a sign that Caylee has not passed over peacefully. I don't know much about spirits and passing over. I'm not even sure what I believe with regard to that. But what I felt today may be evidence that Caylee or somebody else's spirit is sticking around for a while. Maybe once Caylee is laid to rest appropriately the area will be less charged.

  14. #14
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    Makes me wonder though why would the meter reader be there? Could you see any reason for it?
    Keeping in mind that I drove past the area before I knew it was relevant - and therefore didnt pay a whole lot of attention - I cant remember seeing anything that would call for a meter reader. That is something that has bugged me since we first heard of him.

  15. #15
    Thanks for your first hand account of the area and the size of where they cleared it out. Maybe they didn't need to strip the entire thing like they did in the area directly surrounding the body. It doesn't mean they didn't search the entire area only that they didn't take it back to the bare roots.

    Did you happen to notice what the area behind the school looked like? This is what I think Kio was actually referring to when she spoke of where they hung out instead of the swampy area where Caylee was found.

    The Meter reader acknowledged the school was part of his route at the time and would make it more plausible he would be aware of the place he could relieve himself without being seen. (Btw~ most chain link fences I see don't rust.)
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

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