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  1. #1
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    Forensic Botany

    I saw some interesting questions being asked on another thread and with the report today regarding plant growth through the skeletal remains...well...this seems a threadworthy topic IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by kageykaren View Post
    We know the 2 plants dug up in A's backyard by LE were the hibisus & the pink flower plant? Would the seedlings of these plants mature in Caylees skeleton over the last 7 and half months?
    *snipped*

    ETA: For reference...

    Quote Originally Posted by 21merc7 View Post
    http://www.clickorlando.com/news/18444680/detail.html#-

    "Sources close to the Casey Anthony case told Local 6 News on Thursday that they have overwhelming evidence showing that she intentionally killed her young daughter, Caylee, and was solely responsible for the toddler's death."

    "Sources also said investigators have now established a time frame of death that dates back to June, according to reports returned by forensic botanists and entomologists brought in to anaylize the terrain and insect growth where Caylee's remains were found. Sources said plants were growing through the skeleton and bug evidence was also recovered, both of which helped scientists reach their conclusion."

    Forensics are going to do it again!
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel Who Cares View Post
    They released a video now:
    Sources: Casey Anthony Intentionally Killed Caylee: Video
    http://www.clickorlando.com/video/18445076/index.html
    Disposal site crime scene photos here. Closer views start @ 195831.jpg
    http://www.rsxtaci.com/Caylee/
    Quote Originally Posted by doogiesgirl View Post
    NG Show Jan. 9 Sticky Thread, Show Trans. and Videos, Page 6, Post #144
    At the 3:35 to 5:35 mark, a botanist explains how they get the date body was placed there.
    Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeMIq0bQdH4
    Last edited by BondJamesBond; 01-10-2009 at 03:08 PM.

  2. #2
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    I too, thought this was an interesting question. In forensic botany, can it be determined that one plant has come from seedlings of another? Or are all hibiscus plants the same?

  3. #3
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    FWIW, I just Googled "hibiscus germination" and w/o too much reading found at least one source stating 7-21 days.

    http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...015724304.html

    "Yes! I always nick the seeds and soak them for about 24-48 hours before planting. They should come up in 7-21 days maybe longer. Hibiscus are one of my favorite plants."

    I'm not suggesting the conditions are the same...just that some focused Google-time might yield some answers regarding when the hibiscus will seed, etc.

    Happy sleuthing!

  4. #4
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    KageyKaren,

    Can you provide a link that shows that they removed plants? I have never seen the confirmation of that.

  5. #5
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    sharpar is offline If dogs dont go to heaven I want to go where they are
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    its possible - and plants also have dna with the A bush
    to compare they would be able to prove beyond any doubt that is where
    the new plant came from.

    Plants like bugs have standard life cycles if conditions are adaquate.
    They have requirements but if those are met then plant grows blooms
    seeds and either goes dormant or dies.

    I believe the bug and plant guys will be the most important witnesses
    in this trial . What they are going to be able to prove will seal her fate
    and astound many.

    Its going to be fascinating to watch

  6. #6
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    Other FWIW, I believe the early reports indicated the bag had been stowed up under some palmettos...IIRC.

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    Carrying over from another thread, I said that Dioscorea bulbifera which is called air potato vine is literally all over the bushes and trees in area little Caylee was dumped. It can grow fast and THICK making it hard to see her little bones.

    BJB, the AIR potato vine variety.

    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AG112

  8. #8
    kageykaren's Avatar
    kageykaren is offline Lindsey Love, Universal Child your are the star & wondeful you are!
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    So would those mature plants have been visible to the human eye from the street. Would these plants stand out amongest the natural growth wher the body was found? If we compare the videos from the PI heck even the psychic would we see these plants? Am I way off base thinking that these plants may be able to tell if the videos mentioned are from the eact area?

  9. #9
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    Using forensic botany it is possible to show that Casey was in the woods (where the remains are found) by finding soil with pollen that she could have trailed to the Pontiac.

    The bag may have some grains of soil that are foreign to the wooded area and can be traced back to the A's yard.

    The fact that we now know that roots were growing through the remains can show how long the remains were in that area. If they were moved or not.

    There are many possibilities.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theonly1 View Post
    Carrying over from another thread, I said that Dioscorea bulbifera which is called air potato vine is literally all over the bushes and trees in area little Caylee was dumped. It can grow fast and THICK making it hard to see her little bones.

    BJB, the AIR potato vine variety.

    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AG112
    Thanks, Theonly1. Since, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"...I'm a vewy, vewy dangerous man.

    FWIW, I deleted my post on the vine since you nailed it...just tryin' to kick-start the thread w/ what I'd seen.


  11. #11
    kageykaren's Avatar
    kageykaren is offline Lindsey Love, Universal Child your are the star & wondeful you are!
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    Deb I can't link the exact source of the LE crw taking the plants so hopefully someone will help me with that. Even if the FBI didn't remove plants Caylees body may have had pollen on it from transfering Caylee at some point. Even seedlings are difficult to see & were probably not washed off of Caylee at that time. KC wouldn't have thought of that during her panicked moment.

  12. #12
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    Perhaps KC carried some sort of identifiable insectiside or lime from the yard to the dumping site?

    I always wondered obout those bottles being removed...

  13. #13
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    Question does anyone recall way back in the beginning of the case Cindy had either moved one o

    The mention of the grows into the skull has really hit a nerve. So, this means the poor body was there all this time and nobody ever found it. I had to take a deep breath and try to do a little research on what Forensic Botany is. Though I would share this link below. As for the plants taken from the yard, does anyone recall way back in the beginning of the case Cindy had either moved one of her plants and claimed she was in the process of re-doing her yard? That is when the talk of cement came in but turned out to be paver's. could those white broken items at the crime scene be paver's from the yard and that is why the body was so hard to find and the storm broke them up or who ever knew the body was there broke it up? I have a gut feeling that is going to come into discussion again.
    It is said a criminal always leaves something at the crime scene, or takes something away. Very often, trace botanical evidence can link an object or suspect to the scene of a crime, A plant's anatomy and its ecological requirements are in some cases species-specific; correct interpretation of botanical evidence can give vital information about a crime scene or the whereabouts of a suspect or victim.
    The first botanical testimony to be heard in a North American court concerned the analysis of the wood grain of the ladder used in the kidnapping of Charles Lindbergh Jr., and led to the conviction of Bruno Hauptmann for the crime in 1935. Today, forensic botany encompasses numerous Transverse section of spruce, Picea sp.
    subdisciplines of plant science: palynology, anatomy and dendrochronology, limnology, systematics, ecology, and molecular biology.

    This site briefly reviews the techniques used in these areas and their applications to criminal and civil cases, and includes a selection of relevant literature and links. http://myweb.dal.ca/jvandomm/forensicbotany/

  14. #14
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    whiteangora is offline I'm on the right track baby. I was "Born This Way"
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    Quote Originally Posted by debs View Post
    KageyKaren,

    Can you provide a link that shows that they removed plants? I have never seen the confirmation of that.
    There is some video of LE carrying 2 large plants in the middle of the road to one of their vehicles.
    Neighborhood Watch is...
    NOT the Vigilante Police
    http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigati...PowerPoint.pdf





  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kageykaren View Post
    So would those mature plants have been visible to the human eye from the street. Would these plants stand out amongest the natural growth wher the body was found? If we compare the videos from the PI heck even the psychic would we see these plants? Am I way off base thinking that these plants may be able to tell if the videos mentioned are from the eact area?
    Det. Allen did say the videos were very helpful. If the FBI can use the video to compare plant size/growth from mid-November to the size/growth on Dec. 11th, this could be a significant help.

    I don't think you are off base at all.

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