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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Things that are Plaguing Me

    Lately I have taken some time to read about Jon Benet and the Ramsey’s, mostly out of curiosity. I have read as much as I can on various web sites, blogs, wiki's and forums and a few things are seriously bothering me.

    Before 5:52 AM Parents Checked on Burke. "After hearing Mrs. Ramsey's scream, Mr. Ramsey ran downstairs and met Mrs. Ramsey in the stairwell. Together, they checked on their son who appeared to be asleep in his room. (SMF P 18; PSMF P 18.)".

    This is the major detail I am having issues with right now. I have a 9 month old son and an 11 year old son. As a mother, if I awoke, as PR did, to a RN on my stairs at Pre-6am that stated that my youngest son had been kidnapped, I WOULD NOT leave my 11 (10) y/o son to sleep. My first instinct, after checking the baby’s room and calling for my husband, would be to check my eldest son’s room as PR/JR are said to have done. However I would have woken him up, asked him if he had seen his brother, checked every inch of his room, asked if he was playing a joke, ransacked his closet, the baby’s closet, every inch of the baby’s room. I would have had my 11 y/o son up and out of bed, as traumatic as it may well have been; he would have helped us look. Additionally, I would have scoured EVERY single room and closet, cupboard and spare room in our house. I would have read over the RN again and again in a flurry. Then again in the heat of things it's hard to know exactly what anyone would have done. I know for certain that I would not have left my 11 y/o sleeping thinking that that was the safest place for him. Perhaps he had heard something or seen something. That is a serious family emergency. Not exactly something he should just sleep through even though he is just a child.


    As for John finding JBR and carrying her up from the wine cellar, what better way to innocently “accidentally” contaminate the crime scene and her body? Removing the duct tape, denying LE the opportunity to photograph or analyse the crime scene. This could be construed two ways for me. One, JR was very upset and wanted to see if he could help her. He did just find his daughter in the worst way possible so thinking about cops taking photos and investigating untouched evidence was probably not on the forefront of his mind. Yet, it is widely known that when told to look through the house by LE, JR immediately went to the basement and found JBR. Is this a coincidence? Did he just start at the bottom, intending to work his way to the top? Or did he want to be the one to find her so that he could make sure nothing was out of place? Lastly, who trained the BPD? Why on earth would law enforcement ask the Ramsey’s and their friends to search the house? Is that typical? Am I wrong in thinking that that isn’t really all that professional?

    I may well be completely off base with some of these issues, but as I mentioned, these are things that have been bothering me lately about this case. I have been rolling that morning over and over in my mind. How I would have reacted and tried to place myself in the shoes of PR/JR and something just doesn’t make sense to me.

  2. #2
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    Jul 2006
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    ..it doesn't make sense alright.and you're correct..you would have acted the way any of us would have if you had a missing family member..it doesn't even have to be a child.I recall looking under the cars,calling everyone I knew asking if they'd seen him,checking and re-checking rooms and areas to see if anything was out of place or missing (practically tearing the rooms apart as I was doing so),pacing and running around continuously...it is impossible to sit down! there is far too much adrenaline going.. yet that's exactly what Patsy did...went and sat in the sunroom!
    Yet you will see the excuse for that is that not everyone reacts the same way...BUT...their behavior was SO far off the radar,it sent up red flags everywhere! the bottom line is,they simply did not know how to behave as if their daughter was missing..because she wasn't.

    One of the biggest giveaways,IMO,is that it took John 7 hours to find his daughter,in his own home...SEVEN HOURS..any of us w. a missing child would have ripped that house apart,(to the point of turning it inside out,upside down and shaking it)..and found her within a MUCH SHORTER period of time!

    ..and I think John said he searched outside for a period of about...30 secs.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  3. #3
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    Sep 2008
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    I agree,this doesn't makes sense and it reminds me of the Madeleine Mccann case,the mother discovers that the girl is missing/taken but she leaves the 2 other babies alone in an unlocked hotel room while she alerts the husband.
    Ramsey case: "Instead of being the DNA of one person, they have instead created a composite of someone who does not exist. "

  4. #4
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    And to call a Clergyman. Why, unless he was a very important family member, would they call a Pastor or clergyman? (I'm sorry I don't know what denomination he was)
    7.5 hours is how long my shift is at work! That's a rediculous amount of time to NOT have looked in the basement! EVERYONE GET OUT OF BED! WE NEED TO CHECK EVERY INCH OF THIS HOUSE.
    and you begin to notice that Holland has windmills....and Holland has tulips. Holland even has Rembrandts. - Emily Perl Kingsley


    My Heart is always with you Caylee Girl

  5. #5
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    Jun 2006
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    4,807
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssejors View Post
    Lately I have taken some time to read about Jon Benet and the Ramsey’s, mostly out of curiosity. I have read as much as I can on various web sites, blogs, wiki's and forums and a few things are seriously bothering me.

    Before 5:52 AM Parents Checked on Burke. "After hearing Mrs. Ramsey's scream, Mr. Ramsey ran downstairs and met Mrs. Ramsey in the stairwell. Together, they checked on their son who appeared to be asleep in his room. (SMF P 18; PSMF P 18.)".

    This is the major detail I am having issues with right now. I have a 9 month old son and an 11 year old son. As a mother, if I awoke, as PR did, to a RN on my stairs at Pre-6am that stated that my youngest son had been kidnapped, I WOULD NOT leave my 11 (10) y/o son to sleep. My first instinct, after checking the baby’s room and calling for my husband, would be to check my eldest son’s room as PR/JR are said to have done. However I would have woken him up, asked him if he had seen his brother, checked every inch of his room, asked if he was playing a joke, ransacked his closet, the baby’s closet, every inch of the baby’s room. I would have had my 11 y/o son up and out of bed, as traumatic as it may well have been; he would have helped us look. Additionally, I would have scoured EVERY single room and closet, cupboard and spare room in our house. I would have read over the RN again and again in a flurry. Then again in the heat of things it's hard to know exactly what anyone would have done. I know for certain that I would not have left my 11 y/o sleeping thinking that that was the safest place for him. Perhaps he had heard something or seen something. That is a serious family emergency. Not exactly something he should just sleep through even though he is just a child.


    As for John finding JBR and carrying her up from the wine cellar, what better way to innocently “accidentally” contaminate the crime scene and her body? Removing the duct tape, denying LE the opportunity to photograph or analyse the crime scene. This could be construed two ways for me. One, JR was very upset and wanted to see if he could help her. He did just find his daughter in the worst way possible so thinking about cops taking photos and investigating untouched evidence was probably not on the forefront of his mind. Yet, it is widely known that when told to look through the house by LE, JR immediately went to the basement and found JBR. Is this a coincidence? Did he just start at the bottom, intending to work his way to the top? Or did he want to be the one to find her so that he could make sure nothing was out of place? Lastly, who trained the BPD? Why on earth would law enforcement ask the Ramsey’s and their friends to search the house? Is that typical? Am I wrong in thinking that that isn’t really all that professional?

    I may well be completely off base with some of these issues, but as I mentioned, these are things that have been bothering me lately about this case. I have been rolling that morning over and over in my mind. How I would have reacted and tried to place myself in the shoes of PR/JR and something just doesn’t make sense to me.
    And I doubt you would have let your son go to a friend's house after the police had been called. Am I right?

  6. #6
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    I think most of us here feel the same way about these things. They are certainly not the actions of parents who just found a ransom note and their daughter is missing.
    Also, I always found it so aggravating that no one investigating this thought it odd that the Rs searched the house for their daughter. A child HIDING doesn't write itself a ransom note. And a kidnapper doesn't hide a child in the house.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  7. #7
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    I always thought it odd that the parents DID search the "entire" house at first, and came up with nothing...yet in the later hours they (JR) searched again and found her body in the basement...very weird.

    If it had been me- I probably would search my house, but I'd search every darn nook and cranny in the place from top to bottom...probably not so much for a body but for clues, anything to help find my kid.
    “Maybe that's what life is...a wink of the eye and winking stars.”- Kerouac
    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."- Tyler Durden, Fight Club
    "Work like you don’t need money, love like you’ve never been hurt, and dance like no one’s watching"- Unknown

  8. #8
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    Jan 2009
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    69
    I always thought it odd that the parents DID search the "entire" house at first, and came up with nothing...yet in the later hours they (JR) searched again and found her body in the basement...very weird.

    If it had been me- I probably would search my house, but I'd search every darn nook and cranny in the place from top to bottom...probably not so much for a body but for clues, anything to help find my kid.
    “Maybe that's what life is...a wink of the eye and winking stars.”- Kerouac
    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."- Tyler Durden, Fight Club
    "Work like you don’t need money, love like you’ve never been hurt, and dance like no one’s watching"- Unknown

  9. #9
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    Jul 2006
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    for sure,like first,see if any of her clothes or toys/fav items are missing.clothes esp. indicate someone is planning to keep her...and alive,at that.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  10. #10
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    I agree,this doesn't makes sense and it reminds me of the Madeleine Mccann case,the mother discovers that the girl is missing/taken but she leaves the 2 other babies alone in an unlocked hotel room while she alerts the husband.
    the mccann case reminds me of this one in many ways - hinky meter going off up the wazoo and nothing at all seems to come of it. (LE very different in each case IMO)

    But I agree, BR supposedly sleeping through this stinks. PR screams on the first floor, JR on the top floor hears and comes running, but BR on the second floor keeps a-sleeping? maybe so, my older boy would sleep right through me screaming and never wake

    but if I couldnt find one child, you would have to pry my other out of my cold dead hands before I would let go. let him sleep it out?! not on your life.

    Plus the fact that they lied and said BR slept all the way through it, whereas actually he at least was awake when they called 911. and they send him back to his room? are you kidding me? how terrified would a 9 year old boy be in this situation? and they send him away? does make me consider Burke did it scenarios.

    That's the stuff that puts these people on a radar to begin with. Why lie? Why would you ever lie if there was nothing sneaky going on? I am talking to you, Ramseys, McCanns, and Casey Anthony.

    And Pasty on her buttski in the sunroom? Yeah, right? YOUR DAUGHTER IS MISSING and all you can manage to do is sit on your buttski?
    Last edited by 2goldfish; 01-14-2009 at 02:01 PM. Reason: thought of something else


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2goldfish View Post
    the mccann case reminds me of this one in many ways - hinky meter going off up the wazoo and nothing at all seems to come of it. (LE very different in each case IMO)

    But I agree, BR supposedly sleeping through this stinks. PR screams on the first floor, JR on the top floor hears and comes running, but BR on the second floor keeps a-sleeping? maybe so, my older boy would sleep right through me screaming and never wake

    but if I couldnt find one child, you would have to pry my other out of my cold dead hands before I would let go. let him sleep it out?! not on your life.

    Plus the fact that they lied and said BR slept all the way through it, whereas actually he at least was awake when they called 911. and they send him back to his room? are you kidding me? how terrified would a 9 year old boy be in this situation? and they send him away? does make me consider Burke did it scenarios.

    That's the stuff that puts these people on a radar to begin with. Why lie? Why would you ever lie if there was nothing sneaky going on? I am talking to you, Ramseys, McCanns, and Casey Anthony.

    And Pasty on her buttski in the sunroom? Yeah, right? YOUR DAUGHTER IS MISSING and all you can manage to do is sit on your buttski?
    bolded by me

    Exactly,never bought that part and I just can't get one thing out of my head.It is mentioned in "Perfect murder,perfect town".Burke says at some point that if you tell a secret it's no longer a secret.Who taught him that and WHEN?

  12. #12
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    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    bolded by me

    Exactly,never bought that part and I just can't get one thing out of my head.It is mentioned in "Perfect murder,perfect town".Burke says at some point that if you tell a secret it's no longer a secret.Who taught him that and WHEN?
    Well, that's the $64,000 question, isn't it?
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    5,299
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssejors View Post
    Lately I have taken some time to read about Jon Benet and the Ramsey’s, mostly out of curiosity. I have read as much as I can on various web sites, blogs, wiki's and forums and a few things are seriously bothering me.

    Before 5:52 AM Parents Checked on Burke. "After hearing Mrs. Ramsey's scream, Mr. Ramsey ran downstairs and met Mrs. Ramsey in the stairwell. Together, they checked on their son who appeared to be asleep in his room. (SMF P 18; PSMF P 18.)".

    This is the major detail I am having issues with right now. I have a 9 month old son and an 11 year old son. As a mother, if I awoke, as PR did, to a RN on my stairs at Pre-6am that stated that my youngest son had been kidnapped, I WOULD NOT leave my 11 (10) y/o son to sleep. My first instinct, after checking the baby’s room and calling for my husband, would be to check my eldest son’s room as PR/JR are said to have done. However I would have woken him up, asked him if he had seen his brother, checked every inch of his room, asked if he was playing a joke, ransacked his closet, the baby’s closet, every inch of the baby’s room. I would have had my 11 y/o son up and out of bed, as traumatic as it may well have been; he would have helped us look. Additionally, I would have scoured EVERY single room and closet, cupboard and spare room in our house. I would have read over the RN again and again in a flurry. Then again in the heat of things it's hard to know exactly what anyone would have done. I know for certain that I would not have left my 11 y/o sleeping thinking that that was the safest place for him. Perhaps he had heard something or seen something. That is a serious family emergency. Not exactly something he should just sleep through even though he is just a child.


    As for John finding JBR and carrying her up from the wine cellar, what better way to innocently “accidentally” contaminate the crime scene and her body? Removing the duct tape, denying LE the opportunity to photograph or analyse the crime scene. This could be construed two ways for me. One, JR was very upset and wanted to see if he could help her. He did just find his daughter in the worst way possible so thinking about cops taking photos and investigating untouched evidence was probably not on the forefront of his mind. Yet, it is widely known that when told to look through the house by LE, JR immediately went to the basement and found JBR. Is this a coincidence? Did he just start at the bottom, intending to work his way to the top? Or did he want to be the one to find her so that he could make sure nothing was out of place? Lastly, who trained the BPD? Why on earth would law enforcement ask the Ramsey’s and their friends to search the house? Is that typical? Am I wrong in thinking that that isn’t really all that professional?

    I may well be completely off base with some of these issues, but as I mentioned, these are things that have been bothering me lately about this case. I have been rolling that morning over and over in my mind. How I would have reacted and tried to place myself in the shoes of PR/JR and something just doesn’t make sense to me.
    I think I see your point. Consider the R's as innocent for a moment: once the RN was discovered and read, BR wouldve been instantly ruled out as 'playing a prank'. They knew at that moment there was a serious crime. That their daughter had been removed from the house. They knew their 10 year old son was incapable of the RN.

    Didn't you?

    That makes it more than just a 'family' emergency, as if they were missing a pet or something. Innocent parents would've known it to be a serious crime.

    Placing myself in that position, however, calling 911 would've happened first and without hesitation. The reason for this is because the perp could be retarded or insane, and that means every minute a child is with them puts them more at risk.

    Many RDI wouldn't have called 911 right away, apparently preferring to gamble with a child's life instead by putting faith into the perps hands, and assuming the RN to be factual.

    Thats pretty odd considering how outlandish the RN was!

    RDI has multiple and varied claims of the R's 'not reacting the way I would'.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    I think I see your point. Consider the R's as innocent for a moment: once the RN was discovered and read, BR wouldve been instantly ruled out as 'playing a prank'. They knew at that moment there was a serious crime. That their daughter had been removed from the house. They knew their 10 year old son was incapable of the RN.

    Didn't you?

    That makes it more than just a 'family' emergency, as if they were missing a pet or something. Innocent parents would've known it to be a serious crime.

    Placing myself in that position, however, calling 911 would've happened first and without hesitation. The reason for this is because the perp could be retarded or insane, and that means every minute a child is with them puts them more at risk.

    Many RDI wouldn't have called 911 right away, apparently preferring to gamble with a child's life instead by putting faith into the perps hands, and assuming the RN to be factual.

    Thats pretty odd considering how outlandish the RN was!

    RDI has multiple and varied claims of the R's 'not reacting the way I would'.
    well you'd have to be a bit off to believe that ridiculous note!
    and yes,the R's threw up red flags with their outlandish behavior,it would have to have gone something like this:

    John: ok,well,we found this note and JonBenet isn't here...so,why don't we just let Burke sleep?? I don't think we need to wake him;no need to ask him if he saw or heard anything last night.For that matter,there is no need to search his room.(now you have to wonder how they know this..).

    Patsy: sure,I'll just go call 911.Burke needs his rest.Nevermind his sister is missing and he might know something..he needs his sleep.

    John: that's a great idea,even though the note says not to contact police,and these kidnappers are watching us and have threatened to behead JonBenet 6x if we so much as speak to a stray dog..
    Hey and while you're at it,why don't you call a couple families over,how about the White's and the Fernie's..and call Rev. H as well...the more,the merrier!weren't you just on your way to make coffee anyway??

    Patsy: why yes,John.I'll get 911 on the phone,then I'll make the other calls after that.silly kidnappers! I just won't let them ruin our get-together.


    Uh-huh...just doesn't add up,no matter how you slice it.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  15. #15
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    ..and don't forget the R's avoiding LE,(yet going on CNN),and Patsy rattling off reasons JB was better off dead..i.e.-she was looking for reasons to be able to lay her head on her pillow at night.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

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