View Poll Results: Which Listed Below Did Caylee Die From?

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  • Sedatives & Chloroform

    145 51.60%
  • Drowning

    32 11.39%
  • Casey Hitting Her

    10 3.56%
  • Smothered

    116 41.28%
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Thread: Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4

  1. #1
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    Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4

    Continue to post and discuss your theories here. Leave the attacks and off topic chit chat at the door.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    That would leave Caylee dead at most 1 hour 20 min. Possibly not enough time for the dogs to make a hit.
    So, Casey goes to Caylee, and she is dead. What would she do with her then? Maybe put her directly in the trunk? It's possible she brought her into the house, but the dogs didn't hit there. However, it was a month later when the dogs were there.
    We would be at app. 3:05 at earliest. That gives her 30 minutes to get over it, call AL at 3:35, and be driving away from the house by 4:18.
    I just don't know. Physically, it would be possible to do this in the time available, but wow.
    Lanie
    I am not sure I am following you here Lanie when you say she may not have been dead long enough for the dogs to make a hit.

    If you are talking about the backyard, I believe she was carried back there on the 18th with the intent of being buried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWG View Post
    I am not sure I am following you here Lanie when you say she may not have been dead long enough for the dogs to make a hit.

    If you are talking about the backyard, I believe she was carried back there on the 18th with the intent of being buried.
    What do you make of the alleged 2 hits in the backyard then JWG? Any thoughts on whether these both would have occurred on the same day or not?
    Oh what a tangled web we weave,
    when we set out to deceive!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWG View Post
    I am not sure I am following you here Lanie when you say she may not have been dead long enough for the dogs to make a hit.

    If you are talking about the backyard, I believe she was carried back there on the 18th with the intent of being buried.

    I believe some dogs can hit at one hour's decomp. could depend on body actually.

    I think 1.5 hours' death is enough for a dog to hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWG View Post
    I will throw another possibility out there that probably has been mentioned already - none of my material is ever all that original, after all.

    Assembling what I have read here recently, if KC did drive around with Caylee until she fell asleep at nap time and went home, it is possible she left a sleeping Caylee in the car. Suppose she came back to the home around 1:45, started taking some stuff out of the car and carrying them into the house, and calls Amy at the same time. The call with Amy lasts 36 minutes. Sometime during that period KC gets on the computer. Perhaps Amy said "OMG girl, you have to see what so-and-so just wrote on their Facebook" and KC rushed in to fire up the computer and see what it was.

    Long conversation, lots of computer activity - major distraction.

    KC remains distracted through the Jesse conversation. Then George calls and and during the brief conversation mentions Caylee's name, and suddenly KC remembers leaving Caylee in the car.

    Just a thought.
    Temperature at 1:45 PM was 92F. Went up to 94F by 2:30. 90F at 2:55.

    According to this website, lethal internal temperature can be reached in 10 minutes when the ambient air temperature is 90F. "Cracking" the windows makes little difference.

    Note also that 51% of the deaths studied were due to the caregiver forgetting they left the child in the car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devon View Post
    What do you make of the alleged 2 hits in the backyard then JWG? Any thoughts on whether these both would have occurred on the same day or not?
    I believe they both hit on the 18th. I think KC probably took Caylee to one spot, tried to dig, decided the soil was too tough, then took her to another spot and found the same thing.

    Even if Caylee drowned in the pool and KC placed her on the ground right after retrieving her, I don't think that would have been enough to cause a hit a month later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWG View Post
    Temperature at 1:45 PM was 92F. Went up to 94F by 2:30. 90F at 2:55.

    According to this website, lethal internal temperature can be reached in 10 minutes when the ambient air temperature is 90F. "Cracking" the windows makes little difference.

    Note also that 51% of the deaths studied were due to the caregiver forgetting they left the child in the car.
    Nothing to back it up, but sometimes...just to give myself a painless, non-horrific scenario, I try to convince myself that Casey put the car in the garage to conceal it while she was @ home (since she wasn't supposed to be there) and may have just put Caylee back in her seat to leave...started the car to cool it down w/ A/C or just ran back into the house to get some things...and Caylee sucumbed to the carbon monoxide. Owing to her smaller body scale Casey may've noticed the fumes, but, it does little more than maybe make her dizzy and she shrugs it off and just figures Caylee fell asleep again and, hey...that's just a bonus in Casey's eyes...why ruin a good thing and try to wake her now?!?!?

    Flurry of calls all related to "we won't be home" or "ZFG can't sit tonight and I gotta work" or something similar....and...late Monday PM narcissistic-Casey finally decides Caylee's slept too long...and Casey's all-'bout me just might fit this otherwise-ridiculous line of thinking/action.

    ...and then I think....naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BondJamesBond View Post
    Nothing to back it up, but sometimes...just to give myself a painless, non-horrific scenario, I try to convince myself that Casey put the car in the garage to conceal it while she was @ home (since she wasn't supposed to be there) and may have just put Caylee back in her seat to leave...started the car to cool it down w/ A/C or just ran back into the house to get some things...and Caylee sucumbed to the carbon monoxide. Owing to her smaller body scale Casey may've noticed the fumes, but, it does little more than maybe make her dizzy and she shrugs it off and just figures Caylee fell asleep again and, hey...that's just a bonus in Casey's eyes...why ruin a good thing and try to wake her now?!?!?

    Flurry of calls all related to "we won't be home" or "ZFG can't sit tonight and I gotta work" or something similar....and...late Monday PM narcissistic-Casey finally decides Caylee's slept too long...and Casey's all-'bout me just might fit this otherwise-ridiculous line of thinking/action.
    BondJamesBond, I posted a similar theory about carbon monoxide about a week ago with no replies. Basing it on an almost all-nighter for KC on her phone, sleep-deprived, etc., that she leaves Caylee in the car, while in the house & loses track of time. If that took place, she may have grabbed her & ran to the pool to cool her down/revive her so to speak. The ladder was left up, pool box containing shock & pool chemicals, had been moved & the gate was open. How would carbon monoxide show up in tests, or combined with chlorine from the pool? Just a thought!

    ...
    Last edited by JBean; 01-15-2009 at 01:30 AM.


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    I am trying to triangulate a bit on when KC returned home on the 16th and fit it into the possibility that Caylee died in the car.

    GA says he last saw Caylee around 12:50 PM when she and KC left for "work". Cell pings indicate they stayed in the vicinity. Desktop and laptop computer activity cease during this period of time, supporting the notion KC is not at the Anthony home.

    Very light computer activity occurs between 1 and 2 PM on the laptop. Then very heavy computer activity occurs between 2 and 3 PM on the desktop. The activity seems to be indicative of KC being on the two computers and not GA. This further implies KC returned to the home just before 2 PM and had enough time to do a small amount of work on the laptop after returning, and later hitting the desktop. GA was not around, so he likely had left for work.

    When did GA start work? I have heard 2 PM, and I have heard 3 PM. Travel time for GA was about 20 minutes, so unless he was doing errands before work, he would not be leaving until about half an hour before work. I think the computer evidence supports GA leaving the home before 2 PM, probably because his job started then on that day.

    KC calls Amy at 1:45 and speaks with her until 2:21. Sometime between 1:45 and 2 PM, KC is back at her parents. Where is Caylee?

    Now we can flesh this out with some speculation:


    • Caylee falls asleep soon after leaving the A's because it is nap time. KC occupies herself with Tony texting somewhere near the A's, maybe Lee's...maybe the elementary school.


    • KC calls Amy at 1:45, then while on the phone, heads back to the A's.


    • KC and a sleeping Caylee arrive at the A's just before 2. KC grabs a few items from the car but is otherwise deep into her conversation with Amy. She sees a sleeping Caylee and notes to herself that she needs to come back out immediately and get Caylee and take her to bed.


    • While inside Amy says something that prompts KC to flip open the laptop. Next she starts up the desktop. She and Amy talk and surf real time until 2:20 PM.


    • KC is sucked into the computer by now and uses it heavily until JG calls a half hour later at 2:53 PM.


    • KC and JG converse intently until KC gets a very rare call from GA at 3:04 PM. KC takes the call. Sometime during the conversation GA says "Caylee", and a little light bulb goes off in KC's head. "Caylee ..."


    • KC gets off the phone with her dad as she rushes out to the car...

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    I wonder if Casey could have been hiding out at the abandoned Gonzalez house, waiting for her dad to leave for work? Could this be why the PI's were searching there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWG View Post

    Note also that 51% of the deaths studied were due to the caregiver forgetting they left the child in the car.
    51 percent of 361 hyperthermia deaths from 1998 to 2007 resulted because a caregiver forgot a child, Kids and Cars reports.According to the American Anthropological Association, more than 200 women kill their children in the United States each year. Three to five children a day are killed by their parents. Homicide is one of the leading causes of death of children under age four.
    "Please note - this is a message board, not a blog. Thank you"... Sincerely, Tricia Griffith and the Websleuths Family

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    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Rose View Post
    I wonder if Casey could have been hiding out at the abandoned Gonzalez house, waiting for her dad to leave for work? Could this be why the PI's were searching there?
    It's all possible but it seems strange that if she was using this home as a hide-out, that no one would have noticed??? None of the neighbors would have seen her come and go???

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    Quote Originally Posted by reeseeva View Post
    BondJamesBond, I posted a similar theory about carbon monoxide about a week ago with no replies. Basing it on an almost all-nighter for KC on her phone, sleep-deprived, etc., that she leaves Caylee in the car, while in the house & loses track of time. If that took place, she may have grabbed her & ran to the pool to cool her down/revive her so to speak. The ladder was left up, pool box containing shock & pool chemicals, had been moved & the gate was open. How would carbon monoxide show up in tests, or combined with chlorine from the pool? Just a thought!

    ...
    Doesn't CM poisioning make the skin cherry red? Seeing the hightened flush on Caylee, KC could have assumed it was the heat and tried the pool to cool her off. Just trying to help the story along. Don't think it really happened this way though.
    JMO



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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Panther View Post
    It's all possible but it seems strange that if she was using this home as a hide-out, that no one would have noticed??? None of the neighbors would have seen her come and go???
    Right.
    I think somebody stashed something here, who and why are the mystery, but it is entirely implausible for Casey to have been going in and out of this house, with or without Caylee. This house doesn't look like it's been "vacant" for very long.
    I'm not sure about the owners going to Puerto Rico story, either. It looks like a meth lab house. And the convoluted connection to Universal is interesting, too.
    Errrgg.
    The silence from Le on this house is intriguing, don't you think?
    Last edited by sweetwater; 01-15-2009 at 02:57 AM. Reason: incomplete first go round

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paintr View Post
    Doesn't CM poisioning make the skin cherry red? Seeing the hightened flush on Caylee, KC could have assumed it was the heat and tried the pool to cool her off. Just trying to help the story along. Don't think it really happened this way though.
    I am intrigued by these recent theories about napping in the car and passing that way. I could see this happening, leaving her to nap in the car and redness of the face (from heat is more likely IMO) causing a panic and a dunk into the pool before realising the awful truth.

    but again and again and again Casey ruins all the theories with not calling 911 and her cold horrible behaviour afterwards. I go with the flow mentally in accident scenarios til that first phone call from jail pops into my head.

    you know, if she had changed her behaviour in any way that friends or family noticed, even one crying spell one time, I would keep thinking this had to be an accident. yes there were the nightmares, late in june, and the fact that they were late in june makes me think they were about the decomposition and not grief.

    The facts that I know as of this date over and over point to a deliberate death no matter how much I still naively wish it to have been an accident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2goldfish View Post
    I am intrigued by these recent theories about napping in the car and passing that way. I could see this happening, leaving her to nap in the car and redness of the face (from heat is more likely IMO) causing a panic and a dunk into the pool before realising the awful truth.

    but again and again and again Casey ruins all the theories with not calling 911 and her cold horrible behaviour afterwards. I go with the flow mentally in accident scenarios til that first phone call from jail pops into my head.

    you know, if she had changed her behaviour in any way that friends or family noticed, even one crying spell one time, I would keep thinking this had to be an accident. yes there were the nightmares, late in june, and the fact that they were late in june makes me think they were about the decomposition and not grief.

    The facts that I know as of this date over and over point to a deliberate death no matter how much I still naively wish it to have been an accident.
    I agree, goldfish, and for the same reasons. Every now and then I try to imagine an alternate story, but I keep coming back to a deliberate act. I also think premeditated most of the time.
    JMO



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    Quote Originally Posted by 2goldfish View Post
    I am intrigued by these recent theories about napping in the car and passing that way. I could see this happening, leaving her to nap in the car and redness of the face (from heat is more likely IMO) causing a panic and a dunk into the pool before realising the awful truth.

    but again and again and again Casey ruins all the theories with not calling 911 and her cold horrible behaviour afterwards. I go with the flow mentally in accident scenarios til that first phone call from jail pops into my head.

    you know, if she had changed her behaviour in any way that friends or family noticed, even one crying spell one time, I would keep thinking this had to be an accident. yes there were the nightmares, late in june, and the fact that they were late in june makes me think they were about the decomposition and not grief.

    The facts that I know as of this date over and over point to a deliberate death no matter how much I still naively wish it to have been an accident.
    I agree, goldfish, and for the same reasons. Every now and then I try to imagine an alternate story, but I keep coming back to a deliberate act. I also think premeditated most of the time.
    JMO



    RIP Travis Alexander

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    As a mom who can get distracted on the computer, see addiction thread , if something happened to one of my dc...I would call 911 immediately.

    I don't buy the accident theories...UNLESS...KC is soooo into herself she didn't want the death to spoil her life.

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    Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

    Quote Originally Posted by JWG View Post
    I am trying to triangulate a bit on when KC returned home on the 16th and fit it into the possibility that Caylee died in the car.

    GA says he last saw Caylee around 12:50 PM when she and KC left for "work". Cell pings indicate they stayed in the vicinity. Desktop and laptop computer activity cease during this period of time, supporting the notion KC is not at the Anthony home.

    Very light computer activity occurs between 1 and 2 PM on the laptop. Then very heavy computer activity occurs between 2 and 3 PM on the desktop. The activity seems to be indicative of KC being on the two computers and not GA. This further implies KC returned to the home just before 2 PM and had enough time to do a small amount of work on the laptop after returning, and later hitting the desktop. GA was not around, so he likely had left for work.

    When did GA start work? I have heard 2 PM, and I have heard 3 PM. Travel time for GA was about 20 minutes, so unless he was doing errands before work, he would not be leaving until about half an hour before work. I think the computer evidence supports GA leaving the home before 2 PM, probably because his job started then on that day.

    KC calls Amy at 1:45 and speaks with her until 2:21. Sometime between 1:45 and 2 PM, KC is back at her parents. Where is Caylee?

    Now we can flesh this out with some speculation:


    • Caylee falls asleep soon after leaving the A's because it is nap time. KC occupies herself with Tony texting somewhere near the A's, maybe Lee's...maybe the elementary school.


    • KC calls Amy at 1:45, then while on the phone, heads back to the A's.


    • KC and a sleeping Caylee arrive at the A's just before 2. KC grabs a few items from the car but is otherwise deep into her conversation with Amy. She sees a sleeping Caylee and notes to herself that she needs to come back out immediately and get Caylee and take her to bed.


    • While inside Amy says something that prompts KC to flip open the laptop. Next she starts up the desktop. She and Amy talk and surf real time until 2:20 PM.


    • KC is sucked into the computer by now and uses it heavily until JG calls a half hour later at 2:53 PM.


    • KC and JG converse intently until KC gets a very rare call from GA at 3:04 PM. KC takes the call. Sometime during the conversation GA says "Caylee", and a little light bulb goes off in KC's head. "Caylee ..."


    • KC gets off the phone with her dad as she rushes out to the car...
    This scenerio, has played out in my mind many times...
    With all information from your work & JamesBondJames, there is only 30 mins. between the call from George to her call to Tony @3:35pm. This is why the premeditation doesn't work for me. We know that there was an argument on the 15th, which is substantiated in the Docs., Supplemental Report, Pg 2499, by Mark F to LE. The basis of that argument stemmed from Cindy's visit on Father's Day, & her conversation with her mother about the checks, & her mother's admonition to throw KC out. I think this was building & festering with Cindy on the ride home & she finally unleashes all of this on Casey, coupled with her being an irresponsible & unfit mother to Caylee & believe it was a huge blowout. Considering this with her all-night activity with TL (very little sleep) & combined with feelings of worthlessness, it explains, why, if an accident did occur, she could not face the fact that her mother was right. If this had been injected into KC's mind over & over again & then it actually happened, here is the Self-Fullfilling Prophecy manifested into reality! I think we can all relate to some incident in life where we've seen this occur, & it is Shocking! Maybe, if this unfortunate set of circumstances had happened without the assault from the previous night's altercation, her course of action after the fact, may have been different.

    The cover-up now begins. Caylee is beyond anyone's help at this point & only thru some momentary neglect on KC's part did this occur. She exonerates herself. This is also when she literally "drops out of sight" from her usual group of friends (too many reminders of Caylee) & fills her world with new people & distractions. She does not feel guilt, she is thinking the child is hers to do with, what she deems necessary, for her own survival.

    As crazy as this may sound to some people, (including myself) I see young people today, as not viewing death the way previous generations do. Witnessing KC's Facebook & MySpace, paints a fatalistic portrait of her views on life & death. I do not condone, in any way shape or manner, her actions on how she disposed of her daughter, I'm just trying to step outside & look at why or how this may have happened!


    "There are two kinds of fools: those who can't change their opinions, and those who won't" ..... Josh Billings

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamabear1963 View Post
    As a mom who can get distracted on the computer, see addiction thread , if something happened to one of my dc...I would call 911 immediately.

    I don't buy the accident theories...UNLESS...KC is soooo into herself she didn't want the death to spoil her life.
    yeah - either way you end up dealing w/ a sociopath. i believe that's what casey is and while this case is littered w/ coinky-dinks i just don't think she's 'lucky' enough to have a happy turn of chance remove caylee from her life.

    (please note that i do not think anything here is 'lucky' or 'happy'. i'm coming at it from casey's point of view)
    people are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reeseeva View Post
    respectfully snipped

    As crazy as this may sound to some people, (including myself) I see young people today, as not viewing death the way previous generations do. Witnessing KC's Facebook & MySpace, paints a fatalistic portrait of her views on life & death. I do not condone, in any way shape or manner, her actions on how she disposed of her daughter, I'm just trying to step outside & look at why or how this may have happened!
    This is true, our culture has become way to desensitized to death/dying and the reality of it all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reeseeva View Post
    This is also when she literally "drops out of sight" from her usual group of friends (too many reminders of Caylee) & fills her world with new people & distractions. She does not feel guilt, she is thinking the child is hers to do with, what she deems necessary, for her own survival.
    *respectfully snipped
    i also think that a great part of casey 'dropping out of sight' and filling her world w/ new people. was through necessity. all her old friends would have noticed immediately the very conspicuous absence of caylee, but the new ones didn't know how casey chose to raise her daughter and would be far more likely to buy the nanny nonsense.
    people are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWG View Post
    I am trying to triangulate a bit on when KC returned home on the 16th and fit it into the possibility that Caylee died in the car.

    GA says he last saw Caylee around 12:50 PM when she and KC left for "work". Cell pings indicate they stayed in the vicinity. Desktop and laptop computer activity cease during this period of time, supporting the notion KC is not at the Anthony home.

    Very light computer activity occurs between 1 and 2 PM on the laptop. Then very heavy computer activity occurs between 2 and 3 PM on the desktop. The activity seems to be indicative of KC being on the two computers and not GA. This further implies KC returned to the home just before 2 PM and had enough time to do a small amount of work on the laptop after returning, and later hitting the desktop. GA was not around, so he likely had left for work.

    When did GA start work? I have heard 2 PM, and I have heard 3 PM. Travel time for GA was about 20 minutes, so unless he was doing errands before work, he would not be leaving until about half an hour before work. I think the computer evidence supports GA leaving the home before 2 PM, probably because his job started then on that day.

    KC calls Amy at 1:45 and speaks with her until 2:21. Sometime between 1:45 and 2 PM, KC is back at her parents. Where is Caylee?

    Now we can flesh this out with some speculation:


    • Caylee falls asleep soon after leaving the A's because it is nap time. KC occupies herself with Tony texting somewhere near the A's, maybe Lee's...maybe the elementary school.

    • KC calls Amy at 1:45, then while on the phone, heads back to the A's.

    • KC and a sleeping Caylee arrive at the A's just before 2. KC grabs a few items from the car but is otherwise deep into her conversation with Amy. She sees a sleeping Caylee and notes to herself that she needs to come back out immediately and get Caylee and take her to bed.

    • While inside Amy says something that prompts KC to flip open the laptop. Next she starts up the desktop. She and Amy talk and surf real time until 2:20 PM.

    • KC is sucked into the computer by now and uses it heavily until JG calls a half hour later at 2:53 PM.

    • KC and JG converse intently until KC gets a very rare call from GA at 3:04 PM. KC takes the call. Sometime during the conversation GA says "Caylee", and a little light bulb goes off in KC's head. "Caylee ..."

    • KC gets off the phone with her dad as she rushes out to the car...
    Great attention to detail, JWG. I always enjoy reading your theories! With this theory, there are two things I wonder: how would this account for the high levels of chloroform in the trunk? Also, how would this fit in with Jesse's account of hearing Caylee in the background?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Panther View Post
    It's all possible but it seems strange that if she was using this home as a hide-out, that no one would have noticed??? None of the neighbors would have seen her come and go???
    None of the neighbors saw her coming and going from the Anthony house either in all the time since she had been fired from Universal, with the exception of the day she backed her car into the Anthony garage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo View Post
    Great attention to detail, JWG. I always enjoy reading your theories! With this theory, there are two things I wonder: how would this account for the high levels of chloroform in the trunk? Also, how would this fit in with Jesse's account of hearing Caylee in the background?
    Someone mentioned on Part 3 of the thread, near the end, that KC could have been viewing the father's day video of Caylee or some other video of Caylee on the computer while speaking with Jesse. Certainly plausible, but we don't have enough information from the computer forensics to determine if this occurred. I believe media players do save a history, so the information might be there.

    Another possibility is that Jesse was mistaken, as he was in recounting the conversation he had with KC on the 24th. It was not unusual for him to hear Caylee in the background, but it did not always happen. Given it had been some time since he had seen Caylee, I believe there is room for poor recall here on his part.

    As for the chloroform, it is still possible that a combination of cleaners (specifically dry-cleaning solution) and / or pesticides or fumigants (to kill flies and maggots) could have left behind the chloroform signature. Chemical analysis of the items seized from the parental home should determine whether or not this is a possibility. Given the seizure took place 5 months after the fact, there is room for doubt, meaning there could be an argument made that the cleaners/pesticides were used up prior to December and the containers long since discarded.

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    Last Post: 10-14-2008, 01:47 AM

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