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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Northeastern US
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    No fingerprints found on skull duct tape

    I continue to see speculation on the board as to whether or not KC's fingerprints were found on the duct tape covering the skull, and that the FBI will surprise us at a later date with the bombshell evidence. The confusion arises, I believe, due to the very dry manner in which the FBI produces reports.

    Here are extracts from the FBI report in question (discovery pages 3781 and 3782):

    First we begin with nothing more than an inventory of the items received by the FBI:

    The items listed below were examined in the Latent Print Operations Unit:
    ITEMS FROM MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE
    Q62-Q64 Tape
    ITEMS FROM RESIDENCE
    K10 Elimination fingerprints of GEORGE A. ANTHONY
    K11 Elimination fingerprints of CYNTHIA M. ANTHONY
    K12 Elimination fingerprints of LEE A. ANTHONY
    This report is being issued by the Latent Print Operations Unit.

    The three pieces of duct tape represented above were all found on the skull. Not included in this submission is the piece of Henkel's duct tape found around noon on the 12th near the original location of the skull, nor the piece of Henkel's duct tape found on the gas can.

    So, standard operating procedure would be to first determine if there are any prints on the tape. Next would be to compare with the elimination prints to see if any person not suspected of being party to the crime but who had reason to handle the tape (such as at home for normal use) might have left their print on the tape. Lastly, if no elimination match, compare with the FBI database, starting with KC.

    Results of Examinations:

    The requested latent print examinations were conducted, but no latent prints were detected.


    I think the FBI is pretty clear here: "no latent prints were detected". It does not say no elimination latent prints were found. They found nothing, and therefore did not need to do any further comparisons.

    While a disappointing result, it is not surprising. That tape was exposed to the elements for quite some time and had begun to deteriorate. We are lucky they found sticker residue. We can hold out hope that prints might be found on the other two pieces mentioned above, but other forensic evidence is needed from the skull duct tape because the fingerprints are not there.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    385
    Results of Examinations:

    The requested latent print examinations were conducted, but no latent prints were detected.
    This is speaking of pieces of plastic from the laundry bag in the FBI report just released last Friday http://www.clickorlando.com/download...9/19802052.pdf page 6600 or page 11 of 14 in PDF format

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,629

    Myth: Kronk's supervisor lived on Hopespring Drive

    In some of the attempts to discredit Roy Kronk and his find, a rumor/myth cropped up that his supervisor, "Scott", lived on Hopespring and had sent Kronk to look for Caylee.

    http://www.wftv.com/pdf/18740699/detail.html

    Fact: no mention of "Scott" or Hopespring Drive among water department employees.


    "Alex Roberts, Blue Earth Ct, Orlando...is Roy Kronk's direct supervisor."

    "David Dean, Rouse Rd, Orlando ...with Roy Kronk the day he first saw suspicious items..."

    "Christopher Gibson, Bo Jeremy Dr, Orlando...with Roy Kronk the day he first saw suspicious items..."

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,629

    MYTH: Roy Kronk was once indicted for kidnapping

    In Kronk's own words, seemingly unchallenged:

    In the early 1990s, while on duty with the U.S. Coast Guard in Key West, Florida, I had a girlfriend who made the decision to discontinue her relationship with me and move to South Carolina to reside with another man. At some time after her departure, she called me and asked me to come to South Carolina and help her move away from that individual. I travelled to South Carolina to assist her. Upon my arrival in South Carolina, the man she was living with engaged me in a confrontation. As a result of that confrontation, I was arrested based on false allegations that I had kidnapped my former girlfriend. The matter was submitted to a grand jury in South Carolina. The grand jury determined that there was no probable cause to bring charges against me. In recognition of the falsity of these allegations, all records relating to this arrest were expunged by the South Carolina court
    Last edited by JBean; 11-01-2009 at 04:20 PM. Reason: removed some info

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Dana Point,CA
    Posts
    52,752
    you guys would save yourself a lot of aggravation if you started using this thread for listing hard facts that seem to be disputed on the board. When asked for a link you could just cite this thread if it was full of good stuff.
    My tip of the day

    PLease read the opening post to understand how this thread should work.
    Last edited by JBean; 12-18-2009 at 04:26 PM.

  6. #36
    There was no meat or any other food product in the trash bag.

    From Gerardo Bloise's report
    ,

    page 22 http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0121/18530363.pdf
    Monday, August 25, 2008

    At approximately 1100 hours I met with ASL Michael Vincent regarding a white trash bag with blue handle which said bag contained several items.(Art #1, Item #H-51-976)

    ASL Vincent asked if inside the trash bag contained pizza or any type of meat. I informed ASL Vincent that when I checked inside the trash bag on July 16, 2008, I did not find any pizza or any type of meat.After said conversation, ASL Vincent instructed me to go to the Evidence Unit and retrieve art # 1 in order to re-check the trash bag again. At approximately 1153 hours I arrived at the Evidence Unit and I collected a sealed box containing the trash bag. At approximately 1300 hours I arrived at the Forensics lab and proceeded to open the sealed box.

    Myself and ASL Vincent re-inspected the trash bag. No pieces of pizza or meat were found.

    TRASH BAG INVENTORY

    http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20321119/detail.html

    PICTURES OF TRASH FROM THE TRASH BAG http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20320624/detail.html

    E-MAIL BETWEEN OCSO AND ARPAD VASS ABOUT THE TRASH:

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
    Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:30 PM
    To: Vass, Arpad Alexander
    Subject: **Exempt**

    Doc,

    I check the trash that was in the vehicle there was no meat products in the trash. There were pieces of a pizza box and other food containers. I will be emailing you a picture of the items first thing tomorrow.

    ASL/CSI Michael J. Vincent
    OCSO/Forensics Unit

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
    Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:33 PM
    To: Vincent, Michael
    Subject: RE: **Exempt**




    Mike, not sure how I got that there was a pizza in the trunk – sorry about that one, but can you send me an itemized list of stuff that was in the trunk at the time the car was searched? Also, were the maggots on the pizza box?? Arpad

    Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
    Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:40 PM
    To: 'Vass, Arpad Alexander'
    Subject: RE: **Exempt**

    The pizza story came from the mother, who told reporters the smell was from pizza in the trunk. A local news station left a half of pizza in a trunk for seven days, there results were no smell, no maggots, just dried out pizza. I will send you the list along with the pictures.

    ASL/CSI Michael J. Vincent
    OCSO/Forensics Unit

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
    Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:40 PM
    To: Vass, Arpad Alexander
    Cc: Yuri.Melich@ocfl.net
    Subject: **Exempt**

    Doc,
    Attached is a list of items that was in the trash bag in the vehicle. Also attached are pictures of the items. If there is anything else I can help you with please let me know.


    ASL/CSI Michael J. Vincent
    OCSO/Forensics Unit

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ll#post4081938

    On
    FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2008
    Atapproximately 1018 hours the following persons arrived at the Forensics office;

    1.Dr.Henry C. Lee,
    2. Mr.Jose Baez fromthe Baez law Firm Defense Attorney.
    3. Mr.Edward E. Phlegar fromthe Baez Law firm.

    and met for a conference meeting with this investigator and the following parties named below;

    1. Assistant Squad Leader Michael Vincent from Forensic Unit.
    2.Sargeant john Allen from Missing Person.
    3. Detective Corporal yuri Melich from Missing Person.
    4.Detective Corporal William Edwards from homicide unit.
    5. Special Agent Nick SAvage from the FBI.

    met and viewed items from the white trash bag. page 22 http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0121/18530363.pdf

    Lee wasn't denied access. He wasn't restrictred to viewing pictures. He found hairs in the garbage. But not meat or food.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Dana Point,CA
    Posts
    52,752

    George did tell Yuri about the decomp odor right away

    Myth being busted:
    It is thought that YM was not notified by the Anthony's about the decomp odor in the Pontiac when he first met with them.



    George Anthony did tell Yuri Melich that there was an odor that smelled like something died in the back of the car when he first saw George Anthony. Hopefully we can put at least this myth to rest.

    http://cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Anthony%20%20George0724.pdf

    Yuri Melich:
    One thing I’ve been meaning to ask, and I apologize maybe this isn’t a good time, but only because this might be the only, I don’t know how often we’ll be able to sit and talk. When I first saw you that night when I first came to your house there was a mention of the car. And there was a mention of what you smelled in the car.


    GA: Uh-hum (affirmative).

    YM: Do you remember what you told me?

    GA: I, I, I believe that there’s something dead back there. And I hate to say the word human.......

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    7,763
    MYTH: When they went to the OCSO forensics garage to examine the car, Henry Lee and Baez left for "lunch" and never returned.

    FACT: They did return from lunch, and in fact didn't look at the vehicle until AFTER lunch. But they didn't spend much time looking at the vehicle.

    November 14, 2008

    10:18 a.m. Henry Lee, Baez and Baez's in-house PI arrive at the Forensics office of OCSO. They meet with Michael Vincent (OSCO Forensics), Officers Allen, Melich, and Edwards, and Nick Savage from the FBI.

    10:40 a.m. Henry Lee began inspection of right & left trunk liners and spare tire cover (which had been removed from the car and placed in sealed boxes). The inspection of the trunk liners and spare tire cover, which probably had the strongest smell of anything from the vehicle and quite a few strange stains, lasted about 2 hours.

    12:48 pm Henry Lee, Baez, and Baez's PI left for lunch.

    2:15 pm Henry Lee, Baez and Baez's PI returned from lunch and began to examine the items that were removed from the white trash bag that the tow yard guy had removed from Casey's trunk and thrown in the dumpster. The inspection of the items from the trash bag lasted about an hour and a half. 3 hairs were found on the items from the trash bag.

    3:40 pm Henry Lee began to examine the car. The inspection of the car lasted about a half-hour. Lee found one hair in the trunk.

    4:10 pm Henry Lee, Baez and Baez's paralegal left.

    Forensics officer Bloise decided to look over the trash and vehicle again since Henry Lee had found 4 hairs. Over the next couple of days, Bloise found 7 more hairs on items from the trash and 7 more hairs on items from the trunk.

    Timeline beginning on p. 33:
    http://blogs.discovery.com/files/18530237.pdf

    "It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    CT/NC
    Posts
    21,160
    Myth: That the skull had roots growing through it to indicate it had been on the ground for some time. The roots were reported as growing through the bags that were on the ground.


    DOCUMENTS RELEASED: Sheriff's Office Crime Scene Reports
    http://www.wftv.com/_blank/18740668/detail.html

    Page 2

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Dana Point,CA
    Posts
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    Myth: LE needed a search warrant to seize the car.

    According to YM they simply asked GA and CA to turn over the car on the 16th and they turned it over cooperatively; so no search warrant was necessary.

    Page 2

    According to Yuri Melich at the bond hearing he did not need a SW to take the car. As a matter of fact, he seemed to be making a point that he was working cooperatively with CA and GA and did not want to force them to give anything up by way of a search warrant. he did not want them to think he was viewing them in a bad light. So he just asked for what he needed and they were more than happy to oblige in an effort to aid the investigation to find their granddaughter. There us also a copy of the affadavit signed by george at 9:30pm on the 16th in the very first doc dump.(I think it is the first one)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwU6B--gSG4"]YM at Bond Hearing[/ame]


  11. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    109

    Unhappy fact: roots were growing through bones

    Casey Anthony crime scene where Caylee was found released 5 March 09

    http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4787465/...sed-5-March-09

    Page 2 of report, bates #3811, page 10 of pdf

    "On 23 december 2008, I examined six medical Examiner, case 2008-001567, photographs (photos 293, 294, 300, 302, 303, 308) showing roots on and through bones. The smaller of these roots indicate approximately two to three months since the bones were decomposed to the point that roots could grow on and through them. The largest of the roots (appro. 2.0mm in diameter), in my estimation, could indicate a minimum period of approximately four months."

    I know I read that roots were growing through vertibrae, but was unable to find it.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    109
    Adding to my post above:
    REPORT OF OSTEOLOGICAL ANALYSIS (page 9 of 11)
    by: Dr. Shultz
    PDF page 10, Bates page 23527
    "Multiple minute rootlets have grown into and around multiple vertebral centra."
    http://www.cfnews13.com/static/artic...edocRedact.pdf

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    906
    I see many people saying that it was determined that the duct tape on Caylee's mouth/hose was placed post mortem (after death), and some that say it was determined that the tape was placed before death. What the report actually says is "This duct tape was clearly applied prior to decomposition, keeping the mandible in place".

    Link to autopsy exam: http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801498/detail.html

    The sentence is strangely worded (imo), but if you look at the sentence structure... the reason being given for the determination that "this duct taped was clearly applied prior to decomposition" is because it kept the mandible in place. In the early stages of decomp, no tape would be needed to keep the mandible in place, as the soft tissue would do that. It is only after severe decomp of soft tissue or skeletonization that the mandible would fall away from the rest of the skull. All that considered, it seems that the tape could have been placed EITHER before death OR after death ( before the soft tissue had completely decomposed).

  14. #44
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    Dec 2008
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    CT/NC
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    21,160
    "Signs of death may happen suddenly or they may happen slowly.

    Movement, sensation and muscle tone are lost. This most often starts in the feet and legs and then spreads all over the body. The mouth muscles relax, the jaw may drop, and the mouth may stay open..."

    I think this is what Dr. G. was referring to in her report. It was done prior to the jaw dropping. The soft tissue would not hold it my place, the muscles do and once they relax the jaw drops.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    906
    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    "Signs of death may happen suddenly or they may happen slowly.

    Movement, sensation and muscle tone are lost. This most often starts in the feet and legs and then spreads all over the body. The mouth muscles relax, the jaw may drop, and the mouth may stay open..."

    I think this is what Dr. G. was referring to in her report. It was done prior to the jaw dropping. The soft tissue would not hold it my place, the muscles do and once they relax the jaw drops.
    Lambchop, I suppose you could be right, but that's not what I think she was talking about, at all. The report also states: "mandible still in approximate anatomic position with no visible attached soft tissue beneath the duct tape." The reason this is mentioned at all, is because it's important. It's important because it was still attached in the approx. anatomic position, because of the tape... even with no soft tissue being present. If the tape had not been there, or not secured as tightly as it was, the mandible would not have stayed in the approx. anatomic position. I took that to mean that if the tape had not been there, the mandible would have been completely detached from the skull, not just "dropped". Some one else will have to weigh in on this.

    Also, to clarify, when I mentioned "soft tissue" I was including muscles in with that. I should have specified.
    Last edited by crucibelle; 05-02-2011 at 08:43 PM.

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