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  1. #1
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    Casey- Jesse Grund

    Ok this thread is basically about her relationship with Jesse and how she's changed according to him.

    First of all, I think a woman that would murder a born child wouldn't have a problem murdering an unborn child (abortion has less consequence and social stigma). So why didn't she abort Caylee? Jesse says she used to be different - and then something changed.

    I know it's common for exboyfriends to talk about their exgirlfriends this way - "that's not the girl I dated". However, we can look at Casey's actions and deduce she was different.

    The way she was: She did not abort Caylee - she didn't party - she was faithful to Jesse - She stayed in a long-term relationship; they got engaged - she had a job as assistant manager at a Kodak Store (according to Jesse Grund).

    The new casey: Many boyfriends, inconsistent relationships - partying - alleged promiscuity - accused of murder, child abuse, & obstruction of justice - NO job - steals money.

    So what do you think something snapped? I think it's related to Jesse Grund. Allegedly they broke up twice, the second time because Casey thought Jesse loved Caylee more. I don't know why they broke up the other time, but I think its significant. An engagement is a big deal, and their relationship was serious. I know serious relationships often times take years to get over. Remember how she tried to pin it on Jesse when speaking to her mom. "I don't trust Jesse, I want him as far away as possible." Could this be related to motive? Was this a way to get back at Jesse? It would help to know why they broke up in the first place. Any input is appreciated.
    "I left work around 5pm, and went back to the apartment to pick up my daughter. However, after reaching the apartment, I realized that niether Zenaida, Caylee, or either of her two roomates were home."
    -Casey Anthony.

  2. #2
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    Interesting question Ego.
    My guess (admittedly I dont know Casey Anthony or Jesse so its just that.) But it possible that she didnt reveal her true self to him until she couldnt hide it anymore.
    Sociopaths have an uncanny abilty to become a'mirror' as such and reflect what people want to see back at themselves.
    They feel a need to 'belong' in alot of ways for alot of reasons and can be real chamelions when it suits them.
    For awhile.
    He wouldnt be the first person to become intimately involved with a schizoid borderline then be stunned when they start engaging in all manner of anti-social 'uncharacteristic' behavior.
    Ill bet we have folks right here on this board who could tell us just such stories.
    Its not unusual for the sociopath to be the model employee who impresses his bosses and charms his coworkers....until they stop showing up for work embezzle funds and wreck the company car with two hookers in the front seat with them.
    Everyone around them is as stunned as Jesse.
    It almost like they get bored and have to shoot themselves in the foot and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
    Same story with personal relationships.
    I think this syndrome may be one explanation.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egoslayer View Post
    Ok this thread is basically about her relationship with Jesse and how she's changed according to him.

    First of all, I think a woman that would murder a born child wouldn't have a problem murdering an unborn child (abortion has less consequence and social stigma). So why didn't she abort Caylee? Jesse says she used to be different - and then something changed.

    I know it's common for exboyfriends to talk about their exgirlfriends this way - "that's not the girl I dated". However, we can look at Casey's actions and deduce she was different.

    The way she was: She did not abort Caylee - she didn't party - she was faithful to Jesse - She stayed in a long-term relationship; they got engaged - she had a job as assistant manager at a Kodak Store (according to Jesse Grund).

    The new casey: Many boyfriends, inconsistent relationships - partying - alleged promiscuity - accused of murder, child abuse, & obstruction of justice - NO job - steals money.

    So what do you think something snapped? I think it's related to Jesse Grund. Allegedly they broke up twice, the second time because Casey thought Jesse loved Caylee more. I don't know why they broke up the other time, but I think its significant. An engagement is a big deal, and their relationship was serious. I know serious relationships often times take years to get over. Remember how she tried to pin it on Jesse when speaking to her mom. "I don't trust Jesse, I want him as far away as possible." Could this be related to motive? Was this a way to get back at Jesse? It would help to know why they broke up in the first place. Any input is appreciated.
    She wasn't faithful to JG. JG's dad caught her loving up another guy on MySpace, and talking about getting together with him, "When you come home." (I think I remember he was military).

    Nothing "snapped." She morphed into a religious homebody for JG. My guess is that JG's quiet lifestyle didn't suit her. CA also didn't like the Gs. Another poster opined that CA didn't want to share Caylee. Also, KC was angry that JG wouldn't put his name on the birth cert.

    KC was promiscuous before and after JG. Ryan, who knew her since she was five or six, would not give JB a character reference for KC.

    She could've aborted, but I doubt that she thought about how much time and energy children need, or how totally they impact one's lifestyle. When she found out, she killed Caylee. CA suddenly demanded that KC get a job, move out, and become a responsible mother. We know what KC's response was.

    KC got engaged to JG. Lately, she wanted to be married to TL, when she had only known him a month. LE found a piece of paper where she was practicing her married name with Tony-- and she didn't even know how to spell his last name. That's how serious KC is. It's about "Mr. Right Now."

    She had one job in her whole life. The management liked her, and were considering her for management training. However, they also had a problem with her coming in late, sometimes, after partying. When she got bored with the job, she just stopped coming in.

    No secrets, no trauma. She's just a common, shallow-as-a-teaspoon sociopath.
    Age. Fac ut gaudeam

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brini View Post
    She wasn't faithful to JG. JG's dad caught her loving up another guy on MySpace, and talking about getting together with him, "When you come home." (I think I remember he was military).

    Nothing "snapped." She morphed into a religious homebody for JG. My guess is that JG's quiet lifestyle didn't suit her. CA also didn't like the Gs. Another poster opined that CA didn't want to share Caylee. Also, KC was angry that JG wouldn't put his name on the birth cert.

    KC was promiscuous before and after JG. Ryan, who knew her since she was five or six, would not give JB a character reference for KC.

    She could've aborted, but I doubt that she thought about how much time and energy children need, or how totally they impact one's lifestyle. When she found out, she killed Caylee.

    KC got engaged to JG. Lately, she wanted to be married to TL, when she had only known him a month. LE found a piece of paper where she was practicing her married name with Tony-- and she didn't even know how to spell his last name. That's how serious KC is. It's about "Mr. Right Now."

    No secrets, no trauma. She's just a common, shallow-as-a-teaspoon sociopath.
    I dont see a Snap either.
    One face for Jesse one for her parents one for the club ect.ect.ect.
    Pretty common.
    It doesnt mean Jesse or anyone else is niave.
    People like Casey are Acadamy Award contenders when they want to be.

  5. #5
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    You would have to have lived with a sociopath to understand the complication of their personalities. I have one in my family and let's just say that the calm times are bearable and the other times it is a "**** storm".

    You can never anticipate what one day will be like with a sociopath. They do not conform to the norms of anticipated behavior. Just when you think things with them are leveling out...they can act out and simply spiral downwards with their behavior. My loved one does a lot of faking to appear as she thinks someone expects her to behave. They can change their spots in a moments time.

    They can change for any occasion...they can adapt to every person they encounter...they are the best at manipulation and cunning and change to suit whatever is called for at the moment in time.

    Lady Sleuth
    jmho
    What are the three words guaranteed to humiliate men everywhere?...."Hold my purse".

  6. #6
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    The thing about sociopaths is that they don't form genuine relationships. They present to each person what they believe that person wants and needs. This allows them to get what THEY want from the relationship--which is their sole aim. They don't seek mutual fulfillment; they seek self-gratification.

    It's very possible that Casey wanted a sweet, domestic relationship with Jesse. That she play-acted that role. She may have even been content with it for quite a while. It certainly seems as though this was the case.

    It's also quite possible that at that very same time, she was acting monstrously in other relationships.

    It depends on what she wanted and "needed" at the time. It's perfectly reasonable to think she, like everyone else on the planet, went through periods of neediness and periods of relative calm. When things were rolling along okay, one wouldn't expect a plethora of misbehavior.

    Relationships with sociopaths are very confusing. While I realized my father (a sociopath) was not quite "normal" by the time I was a very young teen, I didn't really put two and two together until I had been out of his house for about 20 years! And I didn't gain full perspective until I severed ties and was able to process things with my sibs.

    It's very possible to feel loved and nurtured by a sociopath. It is purely false--there is no love. There may be nurturing acts, if they serve the sociopath's purpose or amuse him at the moment.

    It's very, very hard to understand this---I've felt loved by a sociopath, but know the confusion of feeling, the very next second, as though he'd happily kill me.

    This dichotomy caused my siblings and I to sort of wryly conclude that there's no one better able to make you happy to be abused than a sociopath.

    When it's "good," it's very, very good. When it's bad, it's terrifying.

    Jesse got the "good."

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brini View Post
    She wasn't faithful to JG. JG's dad caught her loving up another guy on MySpace, and talking about getting together with him, "When you come home." (I think I remember he was military).

    Nothing "snapped." She morphed into a religious homebody for JG. My guess is that JG's quiet lifestyle didn't suit her. CA also didn't like the Gs. Another poster opined that CA didn't want to share Caylee. Also, KC was angry that JG wouldn't put his name on the birth cert.

    KC was promiscuous before and after JG. Ryan, who knew her since she was five or six, would not give JB a character reference for KC.

    She could've aborted, but I doubt that she thought about how much time and energy children need, or how totally they impact one's lifestyle. When she found out, she killed Caylee. CA suddenly demanded that KC get a job, move out, and become a responsible mother. We know what KC's response was.

    KC got engaged to JG. Lately, she wanted to be married to TL, when she had only known him a month. LE found a piece of paper where she was practicing her married name with Tony-- and she didn't even know how to spell his last name. That's how serious KC is. It's about "Mr. Right Now."

    She had one job in her whole life. The management liked her, and were considering her for management training. However, they also had a problem with her coming in late, sometimes, after partying. When she got bored with the job, she just stopped coming in.

    No secrets, no trauma. She's just a common, shallow-as-a-teaspoon sociopath.
    i agree w/ everything. this is exactly what i would have said, but brini said it better.
    people are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egoslayer View Post
    Ok this thread is basically about her relationship with Jesse and how she's changed according to him.

    First of all, I think a woman that would murder a born child wouldn't have a problem murdering an unborn child (abortion has less consequence and social stigma). So why didn't she abort Caylee? Jesse says she used to be different - and then something changed.

    I know it's common for exboyfriends to talk about their exgirlfriends this way - "that's not the girl I dated". However, we can look at Casey's actions and deduce she was different.

    The way she was: She did not abort Caylee - she didn't party - she was faithful to Jesse - She stayed in a long-term relationship; they got engaged - she had a job as assistant manager at a Kodak Store (according to Jesse Grund).

    The new casey: Many boyfriends, inconsistent relationships - partying - alleged promiscuity - accused of murder, child abuse, & obstruction of justice - NO job - steals money.

    So what do you think something snapped? I think it's related to Jesse Grund. Allegedly they broke up twice, the second time because Casey thought Jesse loved Caylee more. I don't know why they broke up the other time, but I think its significant. An engagement is a big deal, and their relationship was serious. I know serious relationships often times take years to get over. Remember how she tried to pin it on Jesse when speaking to her mom. "I don't trust Jesse, I want him as far away as possible." Could this be related to motive? Was this a way to get back at Jesse? It would help to know why they broke up in the first place. Any input is appreciated.
    We don't know what Caseys plan was when she was pregnant with Caylee. She seemed to be totally ignoring and not accepting the fact she was pregnant for several months, no prenatal care etc and denying she was pregnant when her parents finally started asking. If she had been able to deny it and gave birth I wonder what she would have done then? imo she may well have tried to get rid of the baby then. Why not go and get an abortion? Getting an abortion would have meant admitting to someone she was pregnant, also the possibility her parents could find out also the expense, easier for her right at that moment to try and ignore it and go on as usual, then she was to far along to have one.

    We have no way of knowing how faithful she was to Jesse. For a while he was coming in handy but then he dared to have the paternity test done, that showed he stood up to her and called her on something, that is something imo Casey was not used to, in her mind he should have just accepted he was the father and never had that test done. After he did that his days were numbered.

    Casey molded herself into who she needed to be in the moment. I do not think Casey ever let Jesse know who she really was.
    Casey reminds me of a young child who will keep pushing the boundaries, her stealing got bolder, her sleeping around with multiple partners etc. she just kept getting deeper into all of it and no boundaries ever came down until now with her sitting in jail. She never learned she could not lie and steal with her parents, maybe she now knows that those things don't work with the police.

    VB
    Boyfriends and girlfriends are not Babysitters.
    Just because you want to be with somebody does not mean they will take care of your children.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brini View Post
    She wasn't faithful to JG. JG's dad caught her loving up another guy on MySpace, and talking about getting together with him, "When you come home." (I think I remember he was military).

    Nothing "snapped." She morphed into a religious homebody for JG. My guess is that JG's quiet lifestyle didn't suit her. CA also didn't like the Gs. Another poster opined that CA didn't want to share Caylee. Also, KC was angry that JG wouldn't put his name on the birth cert.

    KC was promiscuous before and after JG. Ryan, who knew her since she was five or six, would not give JB a character reference for KC.

    She could've aborted, but I doubt that she thought about how much time and energy children need, or how totally they impact one's lifestyle. When she found out, she killed Caylee. CA suddenly demanded that KC get a job, move out, and become a responsible mother. We know what KC's response was.

    KC got engaged to JG. Lately, she wanted to be married to TL, when she had only known him a month. LE found a piece of paper where she was practicing her married name with Tony-- and she didn't even know how to spell his last name. That's how serious KC is. It's about "Mr. Right Now."

    She had one job in her whole life. The management liked her, and were considering her for management training. However, they also had a problem with her coming in late, sometimes, after partying. When she got bored with the job, she just stopped coming in.

    No secrets, no trauma. She's just a common, shallow-as-a-teaspoon sociopath.



    Great post.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetsyB View Post

    >snip

    Jesse got the "good."
    I don't believe it.

    There is a problem with Jesse and IMO it appears recently the Grunds have jumped fence. Makes me wonder why.

    Does anyone remember that early on, his father painted the picture that Casey took his son for a ride. He said Casey lied about her pregnancy to everyone including Jesse, and told them she has some sort of tumor, which Jesse initially believed as well (but RG didn’t and set him straight). Then Casey goes on to convince Jesse he is Caylee’s father. Caylee was born in Aug/05 and Jesse says he first met Casey in Jan/05 when they both worked at Universal. The math doesn’t fit.....thus the DNA paternity test which proved Casey lied to Jesse. (But Jesse doesn’t care....)

    Both lies are pretty significant IMO and would send most young men running for the hills. But not Jesse.....

    And Jesse says he knew this wonderful Casey (who he knows lies) and she just “recently” changed. Huh?


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Sleuth View Post
    You would have to have lived with a sociopath to understand the complication of their personalities. I have one in my family and let's just say that the calm times are bearable and the other times it is a "**** storm".

    You can never anticipate what one day will be like with a sociopath. They do not conform to the norms of anticipated behavior. Just when you think things with them are leveling out...they can act out and simply spiral downwards with their behavior. My loved one does a lot of faking to appear as she thinks someone expects her to behave. They can change their spots in a moments time.

    They can change for any occasion...they can adapt to every person they encounter...they are the best at manipulation and cunning and change to suit whatever is called for at the moment in time.

    Lady Sleuth
    jmho
    Yes, you are so right. I have a couple of them in my life and, believe me, it's hell. You can't believe a word they say. They will make nice and lie and cry, and promise, and get on their bellies and crawl like a reptile if they want something. But, the minute you don't supply their needs, they cut you off until they need you again. They never change, they just change their story to suit the moment and they are sooooo believable.

  12. #12
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    To put it in a nutshell: I think getting older had a lot to do with it, perhaps she felt like time was running out of time to get what she wanted out of life which I think was either being, at least, semi famous & also snagging a man who could give her the lifestyle she yearned for. She wasn't getting any younger...The "single mom" card was no longer working to her advantage and the novelty was fast wearing off. Meaning that she could no longer just use Casey to get attention and then dump her off on Grandma. Cindy was cracking down.

    The second option is drugs. Plain and simple, drugs can change a person. But, of course, I don't know for sure if her drug use was purely "recreational" or if she was beginning to have major problems.

    BUT, I don't think she had fallen too far with drugs or she would have figured out another way to cash Amys checks and use the $$$ for drugs, rather than spending money at Target.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas Bride View Post
    We don't know what Caseys plan was when she was pregnant with Caylee. She seemed to be totally ignoring and not accepting the fact she was pregnant for several months, no prenatal care etc and denying she was pregnant when her parents finally started asking. If she had been able to deny it and gave birth I wonder what she would have done then? imo she may well have tried to get rid of the baby then. Why not go and get an abortion? Getting an abortion would have meant admitting to someone she was pregnant, also the possibility her parents could find out also the expense, easier for her right at that moment to try and ignore it and go on as usual, then she was to far along to have one.

    We have no way of knowing how faithful she was to Jesse. For a while he was coming in handy but then he dared to have the paternity test done, that showed he stood up to her and called her on something, that is something imo Casey was not used to, in her mind he should have just accepted he was the father and never had that test done. After he did that his days were numbered.

    Casey molded herself into who she needed to be in the moment. I do not think Casey ever let Jesse know who she really was.
    Casey reminds me of a young child who will keep pushing the boundaries, her stealing got bolder, her sleeping around with multiple partners etc. she just kept getting deeper into all of it and no boundaries ever came down until now with her sitting in jail. She never learned she could not lie and steal with her parents, maybe she now knows that those things don't work with the police.

    VB
    It's interesting to contemplate why KC did not simply abort an unwanted pregnancy. Obviously, she was not involved in a longterm relationship that had gone sour, since late in the term she was going with JG.

    What is the law in FL regarding abortion? It isn't at all uncommon for young girls to go into denial about being pregnant until it's too late to abort. Also, are there free clinics that she could have utilized or would she have had to use her mother's insurance? If the latter, she may have thought that her mother would be told.

    Who really knows? At this point, all this speculation is moot. KC found her own way to free herself from parenthood.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaF513 View Post
    Also, are there free clinics that she could have utilized or would she have had to use her mother's insurance? If the latter, she may have thought that her mother would be told.
    I doubt money for an abortion was a problem. KC was resourceful when it came to "finding" money.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egoslayer View Post
    Ok this thread is basically about her relationship with Jesse and how she's changed according to him.

    First of all, I think a woman that would murder a born child wouldn't have a problem murdering an unborn child (abortion has less consequence and social stigma). So why didn't she abort Caylee? Jesse says she used to be different - and then something changed.

    I know it's common for exboyfriends to talk about their exgirlfriends this way - "that's not the girl I dated". However, we can look at Casey's actions and deduce she was different.

    The way she was: She did not abort Caylee - she didn't party - she was faithful to Jesse - She stayed in a long-term relationship; they got engaged - she had a job as assistant manager at a Kodak Store (according to Jesse Grund).

    The new casey: Many boyfriends, inconsistent relationships - partying - alleged promiscuity - accused of murder, child abuse, & obstruction of justice - NO job - steals money.

    So what do you think something snapped? I think it's related to Jesse Grund. Allegedly they broke up twice, the second time because Casey thought Jesse loved Caylee more. I don't know why they broke up the other time, but I think its significant. An engagement is a big deal, and their relationship was serious. I know serious relationships often times take years to get over. Remember how she tried to pin it on Jesse when speaking to her mom. "I don't trust Jesse, I want him as far away as possible." Could this be related to motive? Was this a way to get back at Jesse? It would help to know why they broke up in the first place. Any input is appreciated.
    She lied to Jesse that he was the father of her child, then she tried to manipulate him into not taking a paternity test IIFC. She let Jesse play father to her child and then yanked them apart. That seems like pretty standard KC fare for the KC we've met through this tragedy. She seems to have moved on from Jesse to TonE, with a couple of stops in between. I think she was looking for a guy to get her away from her situation at the Anthony's, pretty much any guy, but she doesn't seem to have any particular feelings for Jesse. She said she 'didn't trust' Jesse, but she also said she worked at Universal as an event planner, that Caylee was with her parents or a babysitter for 31 days after she'd very probably been double-bagged and thrown away like trash. She also said Zanny had been her babysitter for years, had been referred to her by Jeff, who she told her mom was considering becomming a family with her. She said she had a friend nammed Juliet and that Zanny and her sister Sam had been in an accident. Later, she told people that Zanny took Caylee from the Sawgrass, or from Jay Blanchard Park. I really can't put much faith in anything KC says. In fact, if KC said we shouldn't trust Jesse, I'd probably take that as proof we should!

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