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  1. #1
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    AZ - Paul Vogen, 29, Phoenix, 8 Nov 1983


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    There is no resemblance for me to Mr. Kyle and this man. There is also a 4 inch height difference.
    Last edited by christine2448; 01-22-2009 at 11:14 PM.

  3. #3
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    Side by Side

    Paul Alan Vogen
    Phoenix, Arizona
    (carolwood)
    http://www.phoenix.gov/police/missing_paul_vogen.pdf


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    I say submitted, but I actually called LE and talked to him about Paul. Paul had no tatoo's, no scars, no fingerprints, but Paul has been missing for so long, that LE is looking into it, will check if the dentals were checked, then if he feels there may be something to go on, he will contact FBI Bill. He will contact me, one way or the other.

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    The nose doesn't match. The height is off.

  6. #6
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    This is a good example of profiles being incorrect. Above in charlie and doe on Paul Vogen's profile states height at 5'7" tall. In the Phoenix profile, it states his height of 5'11" tall.
    According to LE in Phoenix, Paul's file(LE file, I assume) show's height at 5'7" tall. After reviewing both individuals, LE does not consider Benjaman as a strong match for Paul, but he is contacting FBI Bill for dental comparsion.
    I assume to leave no stone unturned.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolwood View Post
    This is a good example of profiles being incorrect. Above in charlie and doe on Paul Vogen's profile states height at 5'7" tall. In the Phoenix profile, it states his height of 5'11" tall.
    According to LE in Phoenix, Paul's file(LE file, I assume) show's height at 5'7" tall. After reviewing both individuals, LE does not consider Benjaman as a strong match for Paul, but he is contacting FBI Bill for dental comparsion.
    I assume to leave no stone unturned.
    Profiles can and will be incorrect....the information on the missing report, held by LE should be what we are comparing by, give/take 1 inch..I'm not sure someone in my family could tell you my exact height...my sister my tell LE I am 5 5, my mom may say 5 4.

    And also a good example as to why it is so important to get the facts straight from LE (who is investigating the missing person) if online info is conflicting.

    No stone unturned is my motto...but let's get the right stones first and fast...then we can go back to ones that aren't matching...at least let's find similar stats and areas professionals believe he may be from.... first..then work out...yes?

    If you spoke to LE, what do they have on his missing as height on his actual missing report? Could you get them to fax you a copy for his 'file'?

    If it stats 5 7, IMO, we should move on to other closer to Mr Kyles size and then go back if needed after more liklies are compared and ruled out. Again, JMO, FWIW.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by christine2448 View Post
    Profiles can and will be incorrect....the information on the missing report, held by LE should be what we are comparing by, give/take 1 inch..I'm not sure someone in my family could tell you my exact height...my sister my tell LE I am 5 5, my mom may say 5 4.

    And also a good example as to why it is so important to get the facts straight from LE (who is investigating the missing person) if online info is conflicting.

    No stone unturned is my motto...but let's get the right stones first and fast...then we can go back to ones that aren't matching...at least let's find similar stats and areas professionals believe he may be from.... first..then work out...yes?

    If you spoke to LE, what do they have on his missing as height on his actual missing report? Could you get them to fax you a copy for his 'file'?

    If it stats 5 7, IMO, we should move on to other closer to Mr Kyles size and then go back if needed after more liklies are compared and ruled out. Again, JMO, FWIW.
    The orginal report as quoted to me by LE states "his file" shows 5'7" tall, and didn't know where Phoenix website got the 5'11" from.

    I am assuming: mental depression, family deceased, missing for so long, leads LE to contact for dentals, to leave no stone unturned.
    This is my opinion only.

    He has had the lead for over a week, given all websites of Ben and about Ben, and made his opinion from that. I didn't ask, but I am assuming there is somethings he cannot disclose.

    I also believe each case we handle and discuss has different circumstances, especially as in this one, family deceased, we would have never known this, so there is a possibilty he could be Ben.

    In my opinion, I believe we can move on to other persons.

    Question though, how long will dentals take to check?

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolwood View Post
    He has had the lead for over a week, given all websites of Ben and about Ben, and made his opinion from that. I didn't ask, but I am assuming there is somethings he cannot disclose.

    I also believe each case we handle and discuss has different circumstances, especially as in this one, family deceased, we would have never known this, so there is a possibilty he could be Ben.

    In my opinion, I believe we can move on to other persons.

    Question though, how long will dentals take to check?
    What opinion did he give you? Maybe there are clues in it, I didn't see it posted on this thread (may be on old discussion thread and missed it-sorry to ask for repeat).



    I would, in addition, start a thread on this guy in missing and research, IMO. What more do we know about him? How much has he been investigated via online resources? How much do ya know about this Paul? There isn't much here. If it leads back to Mr Kyle, fantastic...so far, I'm not seeing it.

    LE has been notified and are checking, so if it is him, ...I'll eat crow. (as that how ya say it?? )

    Dentals shouldn't take long at all. Does LE have them? What are the details of dentals, who is following, coordinating, who has them, who is waiting..yada yada?


    Thanks for all you are doing...you all can find him. I am praying for answers in 2009.

  10. #10
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    OOps-I am for sure confused...the way I read it LE does not think this is Paul Vogen, right?

    FWIW, you can ask why he believes it is not compelling-it is a great way to learn what to look for in the future. Did you ask him to let you know definitively? If he calls you back-BK is supposed to be in NCIC now which would automatically load his dentals so that the detective you are speaking with should have access to them for comparison purposes.

    They are physically in the hands of CBI-if your detective is looking for a physical copy because they have not yet been loaded into CBI, he will not be able to get them from FBI.
    email me


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    Amazon: Purchase Long Lost Love $1.99


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    “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
    ― Maya Angelou


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by believe09 View Post
    OOps-I am for sure confused...the way I read it LE does not think this is Paul Vogen, right?

    FWIW, you can ask why he believes it is not compelling-it is a great way to learn what to look for in the future. Did you ask him to let you know definitively? If he calls you back-BK is supposed to be in NCIC now which would automatically load his dentals so that the detective you are speaking with should have access to them for comparison purposes.

    They are physically in the hands of CBI-if your detective is looking for a physical copy because they have not yet been loaded into CBI, he will not be able to get them from FBI.

    Thanks for clarifying believe09...I personally understood the details on Mr Kyle's side, I wasn't sure were it stood on the comparison side, where exactly the dentals were, if they had 'em, who had 'em. But I wasn't clear and should have explained in detail how easy it would be for comparison to be done now that all this is order on Mr Kyles side, phew (good for sleuthers reference and LE following....yer so smart.)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by christine2448 View Post
    What opinion did he give you? Maybe there are clues in it, I didn't see it posted on this thread (may be on old discussion thread and missed it-sorry to ask for repeat).



    I would, in addition, start a thread on this guy in missing and research, IMO. What more do we know about him? How much has he been investigated via online resources? How much do ya know about this Paul? There isn't much here. If it leads back to Mr Kyle, fantastic...so far, I'm not seeing it.

    LE has been notified and are checking, so if it is him, ...I'll eat crow. (as that how ya say it?? )

    Dentals shouldn't take long at all. Does LE have them? What are the details of dentals, who is following, coordinating, who has them, who is waiting..yada yada?


    Thanks for all you are doing...you all can find him. I am praying for answers in 2009.
    He gave no opinion. Only thing he said " I reviewed the file on Paul Vogen and I do not consider Benjamin Kyle to be a strong match", via email.
    It is my opinion that the reason being for him checking the dentals, is due to the family being deceased.
    The only thing I could find on Paul, were some addresses in CA. LE said this was known, and it was place of deceased relatives.
    I did send him a email and asked him to let me know one way or the other, and if Paul is not Ben, then I would start a thread for Paul. LE does not have the dentals as of 1-27-2009. He is requesting them as of 1-27-2009.
    No Christine, I don't feel that way, you eating crow..., I have to learn the right way to approach things, and I am learning. I feel with this case, I did okay, should have asked more questions, especially the height deal. But I never caught it, though, LE did. Probably why it took him a week to look at all the info on Paul and BK, and not having anyone left to check the stats. Just not sure, should of asked this question. I'll do it next time though.
    We will have an answer this year, and soon. You have to believe to receive. I say it all the time.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by believe09 View Post
    OOps-I am for sure confused...the way I read it LE does not think this is Paul Vogen, right?

    FWIW, you can ask why he believes it is not compelling-it is a great way to learn what to look for in the future. Did you ask him to let you know definitively? If he calls you back-BK is supposed to be in NCIC now which would automatically load his dentals so that the detective you are speaking with should have access to them for comparison purposes.

    They are physically in the hands of CBI-if your detective is looking for a physical copy because they have not yet been loaded into CBI, he will not be able to get them from FBI.
    LE believes he is not a strong match.
    I have taken these notes and will be using them on the next one. He should let me know definetly. But If I don't hear from him in a week or so, I will shoot an email to him.
    He said he would contact FBI for dental comparison, maybe due to fact the doe flyer says to, not sure, but he did know the dentals were in NCIC. I am thinking that maybe the dentals aren't there? Not sure on this one.
    If the dentals aren't loaded in CBI, he will find this out when he contacts FBI, right?
    OK, so what to do now?
    I hope if there is any problem, he will contact me. I feel though, he will.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolwood View Post
    LE believes he is not a strong match.
    I have taken these notes and will be using them on the next one. He should let me know definetly. But If I don't hear from him in a week or so, I will shoot an email to him.
    He said he would contact FBI for dental comparison, maybe due to fact the doe flyer says to, not sure, but he did know the dentals were in NCIC. I am thinking that maybe the dentals aren't there? Not sure on this one.
    If the dentals aren't loaded in CBI, he will find this out when he contacts FBI, right?
    OK, so what to do now?
    I hope if there is any problem, he will contact me. I feel though, he will.
    Well-the FBI does not have his dental XRAYS, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation has the films themselves. However, if the detective found BK in NCIC then copies of the films should be there because that is part of the work of loading the profile: Height, weight, distinguishing features, dental XRAYS, DNA databases etc...so like you said, if he has any problems he will contact you.

    Feel free to PM me with his name and address in the event that he actually needs the physical films for comparison...only if he contacts you and says he is having trouble finding them.

    Peace!
    email me


    Long Lost Love: The Bob Harrod Story Disappeared/ID Network
    Amazon: Purchase Long Lost Love $1.99


    Bob Harrod SAR


    “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
    ― Maya Angelou

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolwood View Post
    You have to believe to receive. I say it all the time.
    I like that!

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