06-03-2004, 10:31 PM #76
I did not know WS had a board for Brooke.
I have been deeply disturbed by Brooke's disappearance for several reasons. First, I live 30 mins from where she was abducted. Second, I am LDS also and she is an outstanding LDS youth. One who truly lived her faith. Third, because I am always touched by missing cases. Fourth, I feel horrible for her fiance who is on a mission in Venezeula. I can only imagine the horror he is going through.
Someone asked about the CTR ring. I know it has been answered but it is very similar to the WWJD (What Would Jesus Do) that mainstream Christians wear on items. The CTR (Choose the Right) is given at a young age, but it is a cheap ring given at that time. Many of us active LDS people buy the more expensive rings of 14k gold or sterling silver to wear as a constant reminder. I bought all 4 of my kids the expensive ones for Christmas one year. They all loved them.
I am totally amazed at how much faith Brook's family is showing. They are a total inspiration to me.
I pray each and every day, several times a day to help bring some kind of news of her whereabouts. I think of her often, just like I did Laci, Miranda, Ashley, Elizabeth, and so many more.
I so want to have this turn out happy like with Elizabeth, but I don't have a good feeling about this.
06-04-2004, 02:52 AM #77
Hey, Hi Calikid! I'm glad you decided to post here, as there are some really special people that you will meet - probably already knowing them by heart by now, reading since January!
An interesting post you have written, to boot! Oregon. Land of the Empire Builders, home of the brave and free! Yes, it seems that we should be way beyond this, being able after all this time as a state to inspire people to be fair and lawful. The real estate code of ethics in Oregon is do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The Golden Rule. And yet we have our fair share of henious crimes, as every other state must have.
What is it? I don't think it is our particular environment and collection of people that is responsible for these crimes. Are you a Cali Kid transplanted in Oregon? It might be that you hear more about local crimes if you live here. I think every state has more than its share of murder, and everything pretty well equals out.
But there is another factor too. For some reason the public picks up on certain crimes and follows them faithfully, feeling some unknown affiliation with the crime, taking justice for the victim/s to heart. It is probably because in some way, there go but I, or my niece who resembles her so much, or this ape of a man who looks just like my next door neighbor - whatever the reason. The All-American gal, like Laci, who we would all love to know.
And Cali, we might have an exceptional press force in our state with outstanding connections to the media. Everyone hears routinely across the nation what happens in our state. A pretty evenly balanced state - not too much to the left or the right, but rather a gentle mix of both, depending what time frame you are talking about.
Because of this, we are heard loudly. And our problems are known to many. And some of our crimes have been illustrious and horrible. Burying 2 bodies in your backyard who were the friends of his daughter, raping them in her presence, and now fallen victim himself to mental disease, although I could believe in a quick second that faking insanity is a far better out, living in a state hospital than on death row in a 6 x 8 cell 23 hours a day, forever until you walk down that last stretch to the table. But there is Manson in Califas, and as many more like this in every state. We just don't hear about these crimes as much. We are concentrating on our own little corner of the world, just like they are in theirs.
06-04-2004, 03:05 AM #78Former Member
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
No I'm in Southern California, although I have family in the Portland area.
My biggest interest, apart from the sorrow of all these missing kids, is that my ex bought a house in Klamath Falls and plans to move there, and my children will be visiting him on holidays and during the summer. He's not a very good dad and doesn't really pay attention.
Naturally, I don't want one of my kids popping up missing, and like I said there seems to be a lot of missing children and teens in Oregon. Maybe it's all the open area to hide bodies in.
06-04-2004, 03:12 AM #79
Good to hear from you, a fellow Oregonian!
I've somehow got this feeling in my gut that this crime happened because someone lusting after women looking like Brooke, chose a college town environment to find his victims. There would be many to choose from, and most gals are flattered by seeing someone glance over and give a smile, having no suspicions at all they were being surveyed as potential candidates for a night they would never forget out behind the trees on a lonely stretch of road. They are young, gullible, serious students but love their off-study time being just girls.
I think that is one reason they have singled in on Kim. He fits all of these thoughts. And he has hung out at and walked beside many a gal at other universities north of Corvallis in the greater Portland area.
I think the police do know much more than they are letting on. Right off the bat, 5 days into the crime, there was a bit of sanity and release of tension. They learned some things and they fit together like a puzzle.
So Anngelique stay away from campus areas, and if you have daughters that are the right age, keep them away too. This outrageous thief in the daylight is still there, walking among you. It would scare the living daylight out of me if I was there. Or in Eugene. Same as Corvallis. Just watch your back all the time until this perv is caught. Promise?
To me theft by daylight gives a bold and stalking feeling. Serious business.
06-04-2004, 06:30 AM #80Registered User
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
- nashville, tennessee
just wondering if any of you all remember hearing of a prostitution ring in colorado that hosted mostly young girls, some as young as 13. I believe that there is an outfit somewhere in mid west that is the reason that alot of americas children turn up missing. I believe that there are people out shopping for the next victim to sell or trade on this so called sex market. to many perverts out there that makes xxx videos of young girls and boys. if only the law enforcement could locate more of these outfits then maybe our children and loved ones would be a bit safer in there own back yards. the prostitution ring in colorado is probably just one of many in this country, I am glad the police busted this one, maybe if they looked deep enough into these people they might find out a whole lot. maybe even find some of the girls that have been missing in the usa for sometime now. since the age of the internet this problem will only become worse as time goes on, all porn sites should be banned from the internet, and those that harbor such websites should be jailed. of course there is that freedom of speech and all that other hipe, but the fcc regulates much of the internet since it is a communication system connected to telecommunications line. the above is just my own opionion and thoughts.
06-04-2004, 01:32 PM #81Inactive
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
Thanks for all of the kind welcomes. It is very appreciated.
Scandi, you are asking a lot of the same questions that I've been asking. Specifics of the investigation into the "persons of interest" have been purposely vague, which is understandable as the investigators don't want to show all their cards.
The stalking question came up, and when Kim was questioned he had said "no" but since his is the only word on the subject, who is to know for sure? That angle is being investigated. The problem is the inclusion of names with some pairs of the undergarments. Rhetorically, is that a sign of stalking before the theft, of potential stalking after the theft, or is he o.c.d?
There are some off record things some of us were told regarding the character of Kim and I can only say he is someone who bears watching.
Also regarding sex offenders who are required to register their address-19 in Benton County (Corvallis is the county seat) are unaccounted for. They cannot be located.
Sex offender break outs (I can't find the exact notes I had on this but I roughly remember the #'s) 160+ in Benton County and 550+ in Linn County.
The Linn County line is just across the Willamette River from Corvallis. Albany, which is only about 10-12 miles from Corvallis, is the Linn County seat.
The latest on the efforts to find Brooke:
Yesterday Brooke's mother, Cammie, made a plea to the kidnapper to bring Brooke back. She is still holding out hope that her daughter is still alive. She also thanked those who have been searching. Many of the searchers have had to take personal time from their jobs and school to search for Brooke. Cammie strikes me as a very classy woman, who under the circumstances, has held up much better than I believe most of us could while facing the press. I'm sure at home she's having a hard time, but publicly she handles herself with a simple grace.
On the searches: A big change starting today (Friday).
The large grid type shoulder to shoulder searches thru blackberry berms, poison oak, thistles, grass, and plenty of pollen (to name some of the things that have made this search so ugly for the volunteers) have now ended. A little over 3000 acres have been searched. Part of the reason the main reason the searches have come to an end is that many of the volunteers have jobs they must attend to and it's finals week for students. Those volunteering will now start a new effort canvassing with a new flier with some different photos of Brooke. They will also resume the use of "hasty teams."
Hasty teams have been used since about day 4 of the search. They are teams of three travelling by car, boat, bicycle, horse, atv, and foot. They travel fast compared to their gridsearch counterparts. They are armed with gps units and digital cameras. They quickly scan areas looking for anything that could be suspicious like bits of clothing, transient camps, porn (yes, they have found a bunch of it), anything that could be considered out of the ordinary. The hasty team will jot down coordinates, take pictures and head out for more searching. They then return to the information to investigators who follow up on these locations. A couple of things of note the hasty teams have found include an outdoor meth lab and some pot farms.
The new hasty teams will be made up of professional searchers including trackers who will be on call 24/7 to follow up on tips, and will evidently be doing some searching independent of tips as well.
Talk about fortuitous! I just talked to the PIO for CPD. The nuts and bolts latest (as of a few minutes ago) are the following:
Still five persons of interest. Kim is one of them. Contrary to what I wrote earlier besides Kim, there is another who is not a convicted sex offender and as to the reason he is being questioned is not being stated.
It was confirmed to me that there is some specific information that is being held back to be used as part of future interrogations should a suspect be caught. (A couple of things I've been quizzing them about for about a week.)
The bookings from the nearby hotel have been checked and are being rechecked. No confirmation as to whether anyone at the hotel at the time, has a criminal history or anything else to indicate something amiss.
The FBI agents assigned to this case-one in Oregon and one in Quantico- have yet to come up with a profile because of the lack of hard evidence. One of the t.v. stations supposedly had an FBI profile, but it wasn't an official one done by anyone with information to ALL the details.
CPD will continue with their press conferences until "people stop coming."
And for what it's worth-CPD has 8 or 9 theories they are working on.
MysteryMomma---I've expressed my concerns about the search pattern. I'm still waiting to hear about one place in particular that bugs me everytime I drive by it.
I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but the Wilberger family, in particular Greg (the dad), is in daily contact with the Smart family. From what Greg says they have offered moral support and advice, and have been a great comfort to the Wilbergers.
Calikid asks why all the missing/murdered kids and teens in Oregon. Sometime pick up the book "The Day America Told The Truth". It's about 10 years old now. It's a book dealing with demographics broken down by region on a variety of subjects that generally aren't the arena of pollsters or researchers. My recollection is that the Pacific Northwest led the nation in the per capita percentage of sociopaths. Go figure.
Best wishes to all, and thanks again for the warm welcome.
06-04-2004, 01:33 PM #82Inactive
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
By the way, sorry for the length of my posts.
06-04-2004, 01:38 PM #83
thanks, newsperson, for the excellent and very informative post. i learned more from reading your one post than i have scouring the media day in & day out. everything you said about Soo was reported in today's paper -and, boy is it some creepy stuff. great to see you here and thanks for sharing your info/insight into this terrible crime.
btw, i don't think anyone followed up on my "panties in the park" lead but these underwear were not labeled (i gave them a hard stare!). like i said, probably some overzealous teenagers celebrating a holiday weekend.
06-04-2004, 01:52 PM #84Inactive
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
My understanding is that a lot of reports, like yours have been made by the public and the searchers. It could be they did go look. You bring up an interesting aspect for me, and that is how the tip line is prioritizing certain calls or e-mail.
If I were you I would call them and ask, particularly if it's bother you.
06-04-2004, 02:37 PM #85
Newsperson, I am not up on Oregon law, but can they ask any of these "persons of interest", particularly Kim, to take a polygraph? I mean, I know they can ask...but I wonder if it's something being considered.
06-04-2004, 02:54 PM #86Inactive
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
In some cases it's already been done. Honestly, I never really looked at the polygraph question quite from your angle. Convicted sex offenders do have certain requirements that legally they must abide by that other ex-cons do not in our state. For instance registering where they live with the county and local authorities. I'm not sure though whether they can be required to take a polygraph (doubtful actually) because that information isn't admissible in court. They can be asked to take a polygraph. Whether a sex offender can be REQUIRED is another question, but I will check.
So I know it has been used and that some of the original persons of interest moved off the list IN PART because of the polygraph.
I have a suspicion, (MY OPINION ONLY AND PURE SPECULATION) that members of the family may have been polygraphed. It has to do with body language exhibited during one of the late evening press conferences when the topic came up. I have to reiterate I am only speculating and the speculation is not based on anything anyone said.
You people ask good questions. I will follow up on some of them.
06-04-2004, 03:07 PM #87Inactive
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
Just found out the Salt Lake City FBI are interviewing BYU students and asking if Brooke was having any problems that might have made her run away and disappear or for someone to harm her. No details on how many people were interviewed, nor when the interviews took place. Seems I remember something about SLPD assisting in a general way from last week. They say none of the interviews proffered anything useful.
06-04-2004, 03:52 PM #88
Thanks, Newsperson. Let us know what you find out about the polygraphs!!
06-04-2004, 04:22 PM #89Inactive
- Join Date
- May 2004
Just thinking here...
Jon Krakauer wrote a book called "Under the Banner of Heaven" which is about Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints. He makes sure to emphasize that these fundamentalists are most definitely separate from the true LDS church, so I mean no offense to any real Mormons, but I wanted to throw it out there. These fundamentalists are zealous about things like plural marriage and subservience of women. Krakauer also goes on to describe the two major sects of the fundamentalists, one of which is based in British Colombia, but has a lot of followers peppered around the Pacific NW region.
This case seems kind of like Elizabeth Smart to me, in that the girl is accomplished, family-oriented, and beautiful. The guy who abducted/"married" Elizabeth Smart was not in one of those organized sects, but it did not prevent him from doing what he did. It's not inconceivable that the same type of thing could have happened to Brooke. What do you guys think?
06-05-2004, 01:59 AM #90
Well Dugie, aren't you a breath of fresh air coming in out of cyber space! A hearty welcome to you!
I lived and breathed the Elizabeth Smart case. I was my first venture into forum-world, so to speak. In general we all felt that LE was not effective in going about solving the crime as they kept the public out of their doings and didn't make the public a part of the project solving her disappearance. Then Sgt Corona hit America hard with team sprited investigations, which did so much for LE all over America. Still SLCPD was slow going and never did get a handle on the crime. It was solved by a call to the tip line, not through investigation.
So as it equates to this case, Le has been very sincere in including the public in ways that they can to help find her. In Elizabeth's case, I venture forth in saying the Morman church took a strong play in the crime and/or coverup of it, that is only in forum world. We learned so many things about the church that were horrid - taking their young girls into captivity to be sacrificed - that just can't be true. How they controled the police dept decisions and also that of any other civic entity in the city, which I probably think is mostly true.
But we were so far off in Elizabeths case, that I often hope that maybe we have learned a lesson here. The Morman church had nothing to do with her captivity. The parents were not in collusion with the church to have Elizabeth spirited off to have a baby! It was a simple case of a chance meeting between her and an utter nut from Butternut, who then pursued her, kidnapped her for his own, covered her with his scent so the dogs that were nearby wouldn't discover her and molded her mind to make her think the way he wanted her to.
This case parallels her case so much, and I would hate to see us fall into the same pitfalls.
What do you bet it is someone with a perverted mind that stalked her, learned her modus operandi and then snatched her when the time was ripe. For all we know she is somewhere up in the hills being held captive, covered with his scent so she will not be discovered.
But whoever took her will make some mistake and someone will call the tip line. She will be found, and I just hope for her dear ones that she comes home alive.
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