This is the truth!

Prior to 12/26/96, the Ramseys were living the American Dream. They were a good Christian family who had obtained a certain level of success both together and individually. Overnight their world was turned upside down through the acts of one (or more) loser. Their one fault was they were too trusting, and let their guard down. The loser, once he came up with a plan, found it easy to obtain access to the home. Whatever his original motive was, he murdered an innocent defenseless child with a lot of potential. The Ramseys to this day have no idea who could have done this, or why they did it.

were very complimentary about the family. No one has a life with few blemishes, and all of a sudden become a sadistic killer of a beloved child--it doesn't happen. What changed? They got an attorney right away......and at least one lead detective didn't like it.....and took the law into his own hands, and was determined to find guilt, once he made his mind up that it was the parents.

Slain girl's father a top Boulder exec

By Charlie Brennan and Kevin McCullen





%%byline%%By Charlie Brennan and Kevin McCullen
News Staff Writers


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BOULDER -- Ramsey was a name well-known in Boulder long before it became linked to tragedy. John Ramsey, the 53-year-old father of 6-year-old slaying victim JonBenet Ramsey, had a big impact on the community since moving to town five years ago.
Ramsey had owned a Georgia-based computer company, Advanced Products Group, that merged with two other companies to form Access Graphics in 1989 in Boulder. Access Graphics, a subsidiary of Lockheed Martin Corp., distributes computer equipment and peripherals. Ramsey joined the company as vice president for sales and marketing and became president and chief executive officer in 1991.
He won the Boulder County Business Report's Esprit Entrepreneur of the Year award in 1995. He was well-liked by his employees.
JonBenet occasionally visited her father at Access Graphics. "She was an adorable child,'' said Laurie Wagner, a company vice president.
Her charm won her the title of Little Miss Colorado this year. Already she was following in the footsteps of her mother. Patricia "Patsy'' Ramsey reigned as Miss West Virginia in 1977. "They were so serious about this beauty-queen stuff, but they never put any pressure on her,'' said Dee Dee Nelson-Schneider. Al Cox, president of the Miss West Virginia pageant, said Patricia Ramsey and her family were close friends who contributed to a pageant scholarship every year.
"This is unbelievable,'' Cox said. "She is a real big supporter to our program and maintained close ties to us.'' The pain of the Ramseys' loss reverberated across town at High Peaks Elementary, the back-to-basics school JonBenet attended. The Boulder Valley School District dispatched counselors to the school, which was opened Friday for parents and students who wanted to talk about the tragedy. "She was a very bright child,'' said Barbara Chomko, director of secondary education for the district and former principal at High Peaks.
Students are on vacation until Jan. 6, and a team of grief counselors is scheduled to be at school that week, Chomko said.
The tragedy also stunned the close-knit neighborhood of narrow, tree-lined streets and well-appointed homes where the Ramseys settled in 1991. "She was a beautiful little girl,'' neighbor Diane Brumfitt said. "But her personality -- she was very engaging and charming.''
"They're such a nice family,'' neighbor Joe Barnhill said, petting Jacques, a bichon frise. The dog once belonged to JonBenet but has become a regular boarder with the Barnhills, who cared for the girl's dog this summer while the Ramseys vacationed at their summer home in Michigan.
"Why something like this would happen to such wonderful people,'' Barnhill said, "I'll never know.''


December 28, 1996

I don't think that there are many who believe the Ramseys are "sadistic" killers. I have seen VERY few posts over the years where someone thinks they actually planned it - about as many as there are people who think a cop did it or the al Quaeda.

I'm sorry Jayelles but I felt this section of text was a bit out of bounds.
So I had to edit it.

Accidents happen. People make mistakes - perfect families too.

By all means have a pro-Ramsey thread (despite spin to the contrary, this isn't an exclusively anti-Ramsey board after all) - but PLEASE keep things in persepctive.

Maikai said:

Prior to 12/26/96, the Ramseys were living the American Dream. They were a good Christian family who had obtained a certain level of success both together and individually. Overnight their world was turned upside down through the acts of one (or more) loser. Their one fault was they were too trusting, and let their guard down. The loser, once he came up with a plan, found it easy to obtain access to the home. Whatever his original motive was, he murdered an innocent defenseless child with a lot of potential. The Ramseys to this day have no idea who could have done this, or why they did it.

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Hey IMHO if you can live with that "thought" and BELIEVE it...more power to ya. IMHO it's putting BLINDERS on because it's safe but not true. :HappyBday
I believe Sylvia Browne/John Edwards in the saying/thought: There are no accidents...everything happens for a reason. :blushing:
IMHO, it was planned (premeditated) like Patsy said; Why, I don't know but have a general idea. Read "The Franklyn Cover-Up" and it talks about the trauma-induced mind-controll of children and a place in Colorado...the Franklyn Cover-Up happened in my hometown and it was played out to be a hoax ... remember knowledge is neutral ... it's an interesting read FWIW!

Maikai said:

Prior to 12/26/96, the Ramseys were living the American Dream. They were a good Christian family who had obtained a certain level of success both together and individually. Overnight their world was turned upside down through the acts of one (or more) loser. Their one fault was they were too trusting, and let their guard down. The loser, once he came up with a plan, found it easy to obtain access to the home. Whatever his original motive was, he murdered an innocent defenseless child with a lot of potential. The Ramseys to this day have no idea who could have done this, or why they did it.

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So, how do you really know the R's "have no idea" ... share?

Since when does the American dream include cancer, divorce, infidelity, the death of one child and the sexual exploitation of another? It only appears they were living the American Dream to those that are not. Success isn't measured by the square footage of one's home or how many toys are in the garage. It's measured by the interpersonal relationships to those around us. They were failing weither the death was an accident they couldn't handle or the reaction of an intruder.

John was emotionally bankrupt from the death of Beth and Patsy wasn't the hormonally intact and balanced woman she had been due to cancer treatments.

Comments such as these are not required...

popcorn said:

Since when does the American dream include cancer, divorce, infidelity, the death of one child and the sexual exploitation of another? It only appears they were living the American Dream to those that are not. Success isn't measured by the square footage of one's home or how many toys are in the garage. It's measured by the interpersonal relationships to those around us. They were failing weither the death was an accident they couldn't handle or the reaction of an intruder.

John was emotionally bankrupt from the death of Beth and Patsy wasn't the hormonally intact and balanced woman she had been due to cancer treatments.

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Excellent post!

Remember, there are many people in prison, mental hospitals, etc. who were living the American Dream.

John was living the American dream when he was married to Lucinda.

There are people living the American dream today, as were on 9/11, who are currently planning the next attack on America.

That mantra of living the American dream is a pure waste of the alphabet when used in this context!

Hmmm.....if their one fault was that they were too trusting...just WHY did they lawyer up before their child was cold???? One would think that if a person were too trusting that they may want to co operate with the police in the matter of finding the killer of their child......just thinking out loud.....

Maikai said:

Prior to 12/26/96, the Ramseys were living the American Dream. They were a good Christian family who had obtained a certain level of success both together and individually. Overnight their world was turned upside down through the acts of one (or more) loser. Their one fault was they were too trusting, and let their guard down. The loser, once he came up with a plan, found it easy to obtain access to the home. Whatever his original motive was, he murdered an innocent defenseless child with a lot of potential. The Ramseys to this day have no idea who could have done this, or why they did it.

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They were NOT a good Christian family. Good Christian families don't sexualize their children. Good Christian families don't prank women stating their husbands have a mistress. Good Christian families wouldn't associate with the type of friends (The Stines) who would steal a man's wallet through a crack in their front door, call the police and have the man arrested, nor would they associate with those who would impersonate a police officer, nor would they drink and drug themselves during a police investigation so that they could not be helpful. GOOD CHRISTIANS don't arrange a photo op at the memorial service of their daughter's tragic death. GOOD CHRISTIANS don't worry about looking like Jackie Kennedy during a funeral! GOOD CHRISTIANS don't go from salon to salon until they find one to DYE THE HAIR OF A SIX YEAR OLD CHILD! GOOD CHRISTIANS DON'T LIE. GOOD CHRISTIANS TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND DON'T BLAME EVERYONE BUT THEMSELVES FOR THEIR MISTAKES! And finally.........GOOD CHRISTIANS DON'T BRAG ABOUT BEING GOOD CHRISTIANS!!!

TOO TRUSTING??? They had convinced themselves within the first HOURS of the investigation that the police were after them and got lawyers and then refused to grant an interview with the very people who could investigate this crime. They left town AND DIDN'T COME BACK. I don't call that trusting at all! :liar:

The Ramseys were extremely lucky that the BPD bungled this crime scene! :behindbar

I am an avowed fence sitter, but the mere fact that the Rs lawyered up to the degree that they did has always made me very suspicious. Even if that can be chalked up to taking someone else's advice, then the fact that they themselves did not constantly bombard the police station makes me suspect. I realize that their attorneys reportedly advised them not to do that, however, John was a big CEO and capable of making decisions. I think they have to take responsibility for their lack of "cooperation" with the police. Within a few hours of finding their child's body, they lawyered everyone up to the inth degree....and started their own investigation, counter to the police. Something about that picture seems very out of place, to me.

And now we have Haddon and Co, in another part of Colorado, claiming that the police bungled Kobe Bryant's case. Is there a pattern here, by the R's attorneys, to create a diversion?

IMO

Nehemiah said:

I am an avowed fence sitter, but the mere fact that the Rs lawyered up to the degree that they did has always made me very suspicious. Even if that can be chalked up to taking someone else's advice, then the fact that they themselves did not constantly bombard the police station makes me suspect. I realize that their attorneys reportedly advised them not to do that, however, John was a big CEO and capable of making decisions. I think they have to take responsibility for their lack of "cooperation" with the police. Within a few hours of finding their child's body, they lawyered everyone up to the inth degree....and started their own investigation, counter to the police. Something about that picture seems very out of place, to me.


IMO

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And going on CNN with JonBenet not dead a week later to claim their innocence (amazing how they managed to put themselves together for the interview) And to state they'd work with police. Then wait months to talk to the very people who were trying to catch the killers of their daughter.

John said he'd take a polygraph and when the BPD asked him to, he said he was INSULTED. Why? Why not clear your name?

Of course the list goes on and on...John says 'this' and John says "that" and John does nothing.

Nehemiah said:

Within a few hours of finding their child's body, they lawyered everyone up to the inth degree....and started their own investigation, counter to the police. Something about that picture seems very out of place, to me.IMO

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It wasn't long before it was known the people the Ramseys turned to for help (BPD) in the very early hours had also made mistakes in those crucial early hours. Hiring of experts was not done to counter the police, but to help them. The experts were offered to the BPD on a silver platter. JR as a CEO relied on experts in various fields in his business. Why should this have been any different? They had no clue how they were suppose to act, and were in no condition to make their own decisions.

Maikai said:

It wasn't long before it was known the people the Ramseys turned to for help (BPD) in the very early hours had also made mistakes in those crucial early hours. Hiring of experts was not done to counter the police, but to help them. The experts were offered to the BPD on a silver platter. JR as a CEO relied on experts in various fields in his business. Why should this have been any different? They had no clue how they were suppose to act, and were in no condition to make their own decisions.

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Wrong again Maikai. The hiring of experts was to keep them out of prison. They themselves have admitted that. They were in no condition to make their own decisions, yet they made the decision to appear on LKL. They state to this day that they spoke with police, etc AGAINST THEIR LAWYER'S ADVICE. So how very convenient that they make very selective decisions when it is to their advantage, but not for JonBenet's advantage. :boohoo:

AND THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN A CONDITION! No excuses. There are no other parents of murder victims who drugged and drank themselves into a condition that prevented them from talking to police! Find me any parent of a murder victim who claimed to be "in no condition" to speak with police. And to top it off, were in a condition to go on national tv and to arrange a photo op at their own child's memorial service. :sick:

What a load of !

Maikai said:

They had no clue how they were suppose to act, and were in no condition to make their own decisions.

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No clue how to act???
How about acting like INNOCENT people!

If you want to see how INNOCENT people act when a child is taken and murdered, just look at the Van Damms, and the Klass and Walsh famlies.

The Ramseys are involved in their daughter's death up to their eyeballs, and they acted accordingly from the moment they made the 911 call.

Maikai said:

It wasn't long before it was known the people the Ramseys turned to for help (BPD) in the very early hours had also made mistakes in those crucial early hours.

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"It wasn't long" was only a very few hours after finding the body of their child. To what do you refer when you say this? We are talking about a very very short time~~not even "days".

Naturally, I don't know the truth. I AM personally familiar with people creating diversions, and this "appears" to be such a time. And now, with Haddon & Co. crying police foul-up in another high profile case, it makes me go hmmm.....

I do not think the Rs in any way premeditatedly murdered their daughter. I can't get off the fence on their side for any length of time due to the reasons I have cited on this thread. I wish I could; I really do.

IMO

Barbara said:

There are no other parents of murder victims who drugged and drank themselves into a condition that prevented them from talking to police! Find me any parent of a murder victim who claimed to be "in no condition" to speak with police. And to top it off, were in a condition to go on national tv and to arrange a photo op at their own child's memorial service. :sick:

What a load of !

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They were with the police 24/7 at the Stines house---isn't it interesting that no leaks have come out about the conversations that went on then. I can name a family who cooperated with police and both ended up on trial, with the husband ending up in prison---the Dowaliby's. The husband was eventually released, when it came out that they were railroaded. The investigation of the Ramseys could have been scripted from what happened to the Dowalibys.

BTW: How does a good Christian act?

I think it's obvious from some of the responses that some just don't like the Ramseys-----it's possible the perp was of a similar mindset--he/she just didn't like them for some reason, which is why they were targeted--and the beauty queen daughter would have been the perfect victim.

Maikai said:

They were with the police 24/7 at the Stines house---isn't it interesting that no leaks have come out about the conversations that went on then. I can name a family who cooperated with police and both ended up on trial, with the husband ending up in prison---the Dowaliby's. The husband was eventually released, when it came out that they were railroaded. The investigation of the Ramseys could have been scripted from what happened to the Dowalibys.

BTW: How does a good Christian act?

I think it's obvious from some of the responses that some just don't like the Ramseys-----it's possible the perp was of a similar mindset--he/she just didn't like them for some reason, which is why they were targeted--and the beauty queen daughter would have been the perfect victim.

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They were with police 24/7 at the Stines house? And where, pray tell, can we get proof of that??? One has to have something to leak about before it can be leaked. They would have to answer questions for there to be a leak!

You have mentioned the Dowaliby family, but still haven't answered to where we can find parents who did not speak to the police because they were in "no condition". The Ramseys were not the Dowalibys and the Ramseys had a team of lawyers, which is conveniently forgotten when you like to speak of railroading. I doubt Haddon, et al would allow "railroading". Yet another poor excuse. Isn't that why families are allowed to have lawyers???????

How does a good Christian act??? Like a good Christian. I have made a list that tells how a good Christian does NOT act, so I guess that leaves the Ramseys out. Like I said before, Good Christians don't brag about being Good Christians! Good Christians don't prank to intentionally hurt others and brag and laugh about it. You draw your own conclusions.

Actually, if one wants to see a perfect example of how NOT to behave like a good ........anything, one only has to read the moron Ashley's post at the end of the timeline thread at Webbsleuths. Now there's someone the Ramseys can be proud of!

It is true that many do not like the Ramseys. However, it is not for the reasons you have talked yourself into believing. It is because they are not the people they brag about being and it has been shown time and time again. It could also be because they are covering up a MURDER!

Maikai said:

I can name a family who cooperated with police and both ended up on trial, with the husband ending up in prison---the Dowaliby's.

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Yeah, well in case you don't know it, David Dowaliby is just as guilty as the Ramseys and OJ. He may have gotten off on appeal, but that doesn't make him innocent. The police consider their case "closed". They know he did it, but there will never be enough evidence to put him back in prison.

And where did you get the idea the Dowaliby's cooperated with the police? They did until they found out they were the prime suspects then they pulled a Ramsey.

Where are they now? Just like the Ramseys, they show no real interest in solving their daughter's murder. The Dowaliby's changed their name, moved out of the state they were living in, and David got a nose job so nobody else could identify him and connect him to the crime.

That was a good choice of example, Maikai. If any other people prove guilty people ACT GUILTY like the Ramseys, it's the Dowaliby's.

Wow Thanks Shylock

Since I didn't follow the Dowaliby case, I couldn't speak to that, but I'm glad you cleared that up.

OMG, OJ's GUILTY!!!!?????