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Thread: Caylee's "Big Trouble..." Shirt Incl. Photos *Merged*

  1. #401
    Analyst Karen Cowan found several t- shirts of the same brand-name (Circo) as the brand-name found with Caylee. The tag of one had RN74299 stamped on it. This is the same number off of the tag found on the shirt collar that was found with Caylee's body. (pages #3379 & #3380) http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photog...63_Page_02.htm

    1 pink shirt Caylee's room chest drawers 24 Months "I get my good looks from my mom" Circo The tag of one had RN74299 stamped on it. This is the same number off of the tag found on the shirt collar that was found with Caylee's body. page 1 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/3591-3640.pdf)

    "Good Looks" Circo t-shirt from Lot #RN74299:
    http://s975.photobucket.com/albums/a...OKST_SHIRT.jpg

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  3. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZlawyer View Post
    If Cindy really never saw this shirt, and yet Caylee is wearing it on both of the days on which Ricardo happened to take pictures of her at his apartment, perhaps this was an "extra" shirt that was kept at Ricardo's place--or in the car or in Caylee's backpack--for when she needed a change of clothes. It also seems to have been used as a "sleep" shirt, since the January photo was taken after 11 pm and the March photo was taken around 6 in the morning. (Ricardo's computer forensics start at p. 103 of this doc: http://media2.myfoxorlando.com/docum...0-anthony1.pdf.)

    Was Caylee changed into her "away from home sleep clothes" for some reason before...whatever happened? If so, why was she wearing shorts that were not the kind of thing you would put a toddler to sleep in? (Or were the shorts just "with" the remains and not worn at all?) And why did she still have the same spare outfit at age 34 months that she had at age 29 months? Did it really still fit? Most kids grow quite a bit during that time period.

    Or was she changed into the shirt after...whatever happened? Casey was doing laundry early in the morning July 2 at RM's house after making a 4 a.m. run out near the Anthony home in Tony's Jeep (while Tony was in New York). Could that possibly be connected?? I can't really imagine her putting the shirt on Caylee after Caylee had been dead for 2 1/2 weeks, though.

    Obviously I have no answers, only questions lol.
    I know AZ, me too LOL . Good point about it being used as a sleep shirt. NTS was saying the same thing to me a while back, I had not thought of it myself. I do think the evidence at the remains site seems like she might have been left in just the shirt, so maybe she was dressed for bed at the time. I.e. no shoes with the remains, shorts to one side of the remains, shorts less decomposed than the shirt which seems to have probably been on her body, (and her pelvis was moved off a distance IIRC but the shorts were not with it). So it looks like she could have been disposed of in just the sleep shirt but the shorts just disposed of too at the site (unless she had been dressed in the shorts as well but the shorts were removed, for example for a sexual assault.) Sad. It gives me the impression she could have been taken her from her bed. You know, that's weirding me out now because that other perp in those two attempted abductions (per story in the Orlando Sentinal around May 09 IIRC) took a 4 year old girl from her bed, and took shorts and a blanket from her room, took her to the garage before being interrupted and fled. Just a coincidence probably, I know. But still.
    Last edited by seagull65; 12-04-2010 at 02:57 AM.

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  5. #403
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    I was surprised to read, while trying to catch up recently, the thing about JPC having also sold pictures or attempted to, not just RM. Did we hear yet which pictures they were that JP took? Makes sense he might have taken photos with his phone or camera too at some point.

    I was always puzzled how he'd kept such a low profile all this time, since that was his townhome and everything. You'd think he would have been investigated in exactly the same manner as RM. Why selectively RM? I never understood what difference it made which one she was dating, they both lived there...there were other people who frequented the place too..

    Regarding the Tshirt photos at their place, I'm very puzzled why, after the same T shirt was found on her remains, there wasn't a police and FBI forensic search of the townhome. Not accusing JP or RM of anything of course they're not the only people who were in that townhome. And of course we don't know if the T-shirt remained there or was taken elsewhere after those pictures....but I don't understand why the townhome wasn't looked at in case any evidence/forensics could be found....at least I never heard of anything. I mean if I were the police I would have searched that home just because Caylee had been staying there so recently.... much less that!
    Last edited by seagull65; 12-04-2010 at 02:58 AM.

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  7. #404
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    Well they already tried the 'let's investigate all her other innocent friends to see if they could cast suspicion on them' approach and that didn't pan out- then they tried to implicate Kronk - they may have figured out by now that flailing around in the direction of her friends who have been dragged unwittingly into this mess was not going to benefit them. People, and that would include a Jury, see right through this B.S.

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  9. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagull65 View Post
    I know AZ, me too LOL . Good point about it being used as a sleep shirt. NTS was saying the same thing to me a while back, I had not thought of it myself. I do think the evidence at the remains site seems like she might have been left in just the shirt, so maybe she was dressed for bed at the time. I.e. no shoes with the remains, shorts to one side of the remains, shorts less decomposed than the shirt which seems to have probably been on her body, (and her pelvis was moved off a distance IIRC but the shorts were not with it). So it looks like she could have been disposed of in just the sleep shirt but the shorts just disposed of too at the site (unless she had been dressed in the shorts as well but the shorts were removed, for example for a sexual assault.) Sad. It gives me the impression she could have been taken her from her bed. You know, that's weirding me out now because that other perp in those two attempted abductions (per story in the Orlando Sentinal around May 09 IIRC) took a 4 year old girl from her bed, and took shorts and a blanket from her room, took her to the garage before being interrupted and fled. Just a coincidence probably, I know. But still.
    Aren't you omitting the fact that GA saw ICA leaving with Caylee in her sole care, never to be seen again? By that evening ICA was with TL selecting movies and sleeping over- Caylee was gone...
    I feel sure if ICA could have come up with a home abduction/sexual assault scenario she would have at the time,but since GA was there when she left that poses a problem. Enter Zenaida...


  10. #406
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    I think the only one KC would EVER try to cover up for in Caylee's death would be herself. She has no reason to "protect" her friends. They all have jumped ship on her long ago. Not one of them visits. It is pretty clear after 2 1/2 years who was the last person to see Caylee alive. jmo

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  12. #407
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    The photo of Caylee in the BT shirt at RM's would be easy to date . It was not taken when Caylee went missing. Caylee was seen long after that photo was taken .
    CA has lied and changed her stories,even under oath and on video.Why should we believe her when she says she never saw the BT shirt? She has done her best to try and implicate others and this was probably a lie to do just that.CA has NO credibility.
    Always ,just my opinion

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  14. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZsaZsa View Post
    Well they already tried the 'let's investigate all her other innocent friends to see if they could cast suspicion on them' approach and that didn't pan out- then they tried to implicate Kronk - they may have figured out by now that flailing around in the direction of her friends who have been dragged unwittingly into this mess was not going to benefit them. People, and that would include a Jury, see right through this B.S.
    no, as far as I know (unless new stuff has come out very recently) police never investigated the Glenwood townhome or the Sutton Place apartment either one, no dogs taken through (even tracking dogs) or forensics done. The two known places where Casey had been staying and taking Caylee. Except for that fast police walk through of the Sutton Pl apt the first day to see if Caylee was staying there. And none of the people's vehicles were checked out except for the back of TL's jeep and shoes he had in the jeep being checked with luminol/bluestar and checked for hair. As far as I've seen in the docs.
    Last edited by seagull65; 12-04-2010 at 11:22 AM.

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  16. #409
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    anyone happen to have a link handy for the evidence photo of the blanket that was found next to Caylee's remains. The one that they thought was a towel at first, that was kind of stuck partly under the black plastic bag? I can't seem to find a working link to that group of pictures any more :/ When I was reviewing last night I did see the picture again of the blanket that was pink on one side and spotted/print on the other. That's not the same blanket, right? Can't believe it's been so long I'm starting to forget some of this lol. Maybe that is it.

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  18. #410
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    so we know a flannel Winnie blanket was at JP's at one point. Which Winnie blanket was it that was supposedly missing from the A's house or appeared to have been replaced, was it the bedspread/quilt from the set? TIA

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    Quote Originally Posted by seagull65 View Post
    so we know a flannel Winnie blanket was at JP's at one point. Which Winnie blanket was it that was supposedly missing from the A's house or appeared to have been replaced, was it the bedspread/quilt from the set? TIA
    I never heard the Winnie the Poo blanket was at JP's. Didn't CA say only one Winnie the Poo blanket was missing from Caylee's bed? It's been a long time so I'm not sure but sure I never heard about JP having Caylee's blanket.

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  21. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagull65 View Post
    no, as far as I know (unless new stuff has come out very recently) police never investigated the Glenwood townhome or the Sutton Place apartment either one, no dogs taken through (even tracking dogs) or forensics done. The two known places where Casey had been staying and taking Caylee. Except for that fast police walk through of the Sutton Pl apt the first day to see if Caylee was staying there. And none of the people's vehicles were checked out except for the back of TL's jeep and shoes he had in the jeep being checked with luminol/bluestar and checked for hair. As far as I've seen in the docs.
    Not sure why LE would be looking there when KC specifically said ZFG had Caylee. KC should know who had her child.......or, not. jmo

    ETA: Also LE can't just walk in and search an apartment/home/dwelling without a search warrant unless given permission by the owner. Without a reason to search a warrant would not be granted by the judge. Innocent people have rights, too, not just the guilty. lol
    Last edited by LambChop; 12-04-2010 at 11:43 AM.

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  23. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZsaZsa View Post
    Aren't you omitting the fact that GA saw ICA leaving with Caylee in her sole care, never to be seen again? By that evening ICA was with TL selecting movies and sleeping over- Caylee was gone...
    I feel sure if ICA could have come up with a home abduction/sexual assault scenario she would have at the time,but since GA was there when she left that poses a problem. Enter Zenaida...
    I have no way of knowing if George's recollection is accurate or not, and I don't know when exactly Caylee went missing or died. I don't take witness statements as gospel fact LOL, I think everyone except the perp would be trying their best to recall accurately, but witnesses can sometimes (often) be mistaken in their recollections. JG originally said he'd heard Caylee in the background of a phone call later than that, so did KioTC. What was accurate, what wasn't? Who knows.

    No I don't rule out a sexual assault at all.

    Wouldn't want to discuss further because it would take us off topic from the T-shirt/T-shirt photos etc although it's an interesting question
    Last edited by seagull65; 12-04-2010 at 12:27 PM.

  24. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    Not sure why LE would be looking there when KC specifically said ZFG had Caylee. KC should know who had her child.......or, not. jmo

    ETA: Also LE can't just walk in and search an apartment/home/dwelling without a search warrant unless given permission by the owner. Without a reason to search a warrant would not be granted by the judge. Innocent people have rights, too, not just the guilty. lol
    you're not sure why LE would look into the places where Casey had been and where she'd had Caylee leading up to the disappearance? Even after pictures surface of the T-shirt from the remains scene having been at one of these places? OK, we're of a different mind there.

    Yes of course with a search warrant LOL That goes without saying. Seems like it would be quite straightforward to get a search warrant for the places where the mother (their chief suspect) had been staying, and where Caylee had been so shortly before the disappearance.
    Not just the apartments themselves, also the apartment complex dumpsters etc etc. Seems to me they would have examined all of these asap to prevent potential loss of evidence.They seemed doubtful about her ZFG story from the beginning and thought it was just a red herring so you'd think they'd investigate the places their prime suspect had been staying and where she'd had the missing child etc. IMO
    Last edited by seagull65; 12-04-2010 at 12:26 PM.

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  26. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    I never heard the Winnie the Poo blanket was at JP's. Didn't CA say only one Winnie the Poo blanket was missing from Caylee's bed? It's been a long time so I'm not sure but sure I never heard about JP having Caylee's blanket.
    you can see a flannel winnie the pooh blanket in some of the photos taken at JP's, it's down at the lower left corner of pictures of Caylee/Casey on the blue couch, near Caylee's elbow (not the guitar pictures).

    I think Cindy did say only one Winnie blanket was missing but I'm not sure either, I'm beginning to forget some of this lately
    Last edited by seagull65; 12-04-2010 at 12:41 PM.

  27. #416
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by seagull65 View Post
    you're not sure why LE would look into the places where Casey had been and where she'd had Caylee recently? Even after pictures surface of the T-shirt from the remains scene having been at one of these places? OK, we're of a different mind there.

    Yes of course with a search warrant LOL That goes without saying. Seems like it would be quite straightforward to get a search warrant for the places the child had been staying recently and where the mother (their chief suspect) had been staying.
    Not just the apartments themselves, also the apartment complex dumpsters etc etc. Seems to me they would have examined all of these asap to prevent potential loss of evidence.They seemed doubtful about her ZFG story from the beginning and thought it was just a red herring so you'd think they'd investigate the places their prime suspect had been staying and where she'd had the missing child etc. IMO
    *bbm*

    Don't forget the T-shirt had no significance until the remains were found 6 months later. By that time SA was pretty sure of the evidence they had and the lack of any evidence that ZFG ever existed. The fact that KC lied about facts of the case and continued to lie up until the time of her arrest shows intent on KC's part not to let LE know exactly what happened to Caylee. It was "not in KC's best interest to tell LE the whereabout of her child" (paraphrased). This came from the mouth of her attorney, JB. When someone lies to LE about an important issue such as a missing child why would LE ever, ever think someone else had something to do with the child being missing. The child was KC's responsibility, in KC's care and KC can't come up with a reason why she no longer has this child. With all the information disclosed to date LE was right on with their suspect. The fact that there is no evidence, none whatsoever, that points to another person is significant. KC needs to wake up. We're not in "fairyland" as JB puts it. The facts speak for themselves. KC is in big trouble this time.

    As far as my question in a previous post about the blanket being at JB's. That information didn't come from CA, did it? jmo
    Last edited by BondJamesBond; 12-05-2010 at 12:26 AM. Reason: Fixed broken quote & added "*bbm*"

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  29. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagull65 View Post
    you can see a flannel winnie the pooh blanket in some of the photos taken at JP's, it's down at the lower left corner of pictures of Caylee/Casey on the blue couch, near Caylee's elbow (not the guitar pictures)
    I thought the guitar pictures were taken at RM's apartment. I don't recall seeing the blanket in those pictures.

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  31. #418
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    the small packages photos from JP's are from January and March, it's just that Cindy said she didn't recognize the T-shirt and we never found any photos of Caylee in that T-shirt anywhere else, no one else mentions that Tshirt although they're not questioned directly about it in interviews, we kind of wondered here if maybe the tshirt was just left at JP/RM's for use while there. But you never know

  32. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    I thought the guitar pictures were taken at RM's apartment. I don't recall seeing the blanket in those pictures.
    Yes the guitar pictures are from JP's townhome (where RM, AH and JP were roommates). The flannel Winnie blanket is not in the guitar pictures but other pictures taken at JP's on that same couch

  33. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagull65 View Post
    Yes the guitar pictures are from JP's townhome (where RM, AH and JP were roommates). The flannel Winnie blanket is not in the guitar pictures but other pictures taken at JP's on that same couch
    I'm sure it was probably there I just don't recall seeing it in the picture. If Caylee had it with her in the picture I would imagine since CA said it was her favorite blanket she slept with it and KC would have made sure she had it with her if she knew they were staying the night. My daughter had a blue dog at Caylee's age and we were visiting his uncle's home about 40 miles from our home and we accidently left the dog (Boo) behind. She cried so Dad had to drive all the way back to fetch the dog because we knew she would not go to sleep without it. So I could see the blanket going with her when they went out. As far as CA saying she never saw the shirt. Taking into consideration the statement on the shirt, CA never sees what she does not want to see even if it were right in front of her. I don't think CA ever saw Caylee as a problem. That shirt was probably bought with CA's money but by KC. jmo

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  35. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    Not sure why LE would be looking there when KC specifically said ZFG had Caylee. KC should know who had her child.......or, not. jmo

    ETA: Also LE can't just walk in and search an apartment/home/dwelling without a search warrant unless given permission by the owner. Without a reason to search a warrant would not be granted by the judge. Innocent people have rights, too, not just the guilty. lol
    you're not sure why LE would look into the places where Casey had been and where she'd had Caylee recently? Even after pictures surface of the T-shirt from the remains scene having been at one of these places? OK, we're of a different mind there.

    Yes of course with a search warrant LOL Wouldn't it ordinarily be easy to get a search warrant for the places the child had been staying and spending time recently and where the mother (their chief suspect) had been staying?
    Not just the apartments themselves, also the apartment complex dumpsters etc etc. Seems to me they would have examined all of these asap to prevent potential loss of evidence.They seemed doubtful about her ZFG story from the beginning and thought it was just a red herring so you'd think they'd investigate the places their prime suspect had been staying and where she'd had the missing child etc. IMO

  36. #422
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    here are the ones with the flannel Winnie blanket Lambchop, in post #4 at that above link, the first 3 pictures are on the blue couch at JP's, you can see the flannel Winnie blanket in the first and third one ( lower left corner).

    I wonder, looking at these pictures again now, in the picture on the bed where Caylee is in the small packages Tshirt, what is that directly behind Caylee on the floor, is that the blanket again, I can't tell. I never noticed it before. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/att...achmentid=6593
    Last edited by seagull65; 12-04-2010 at 01:41 PM.

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  38. #423
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    Fascinating questions seagull65 so I called home to my "in house reference text", DH, retired State trooper & "homicide specialist" (yeah, how lucky are we both, getting to "see/be with" HCL in action but in his HALCYON DAYS of fame!)
    1. The case was a missing person case, victim abduction by KNOWN assailant, information provided by parent/guardian of record.
    2. The informant provided ALL relevant information to investigators which is what they were using to SEARCH for the victim & perp.
    3. The process of interrogation starts with the informant, then as if you imagine a stone thrown into a lake, ripples out to family and friends/acquaintances BUT QUESTIONING by skilled LE helps FOCUS the investigation.

    NOW huge props to Lambchop from the DH (he wants you to consider LE as a career, you'd write great "5s" {reports}) for the following: Don't forget the T-shirt had no significance until the remains were found 6 months later. By that time SA was pretty sure of the evidence they had and the lack of any evidence that ZFG ever existed. The fact that KC lied about facts of the case and continued to lie up until the time of her arrest shows intent on KC's part not to let LE know exactly what happened to Caylee. It was "not in KC's best interest to tell LE the whereabout of her child" (paraphrased). This came from the mouth of her attorney, JB. When someone lies to LE about an important issue such as a missing child why would LE ever, ever think someone else had something to do with the child being missing. The child was KC's responsibility, in KC's care and KC can't come up with a reason why she no longer has this child. With all the information disclosed to date LE was right on with their suspect. The fact that there is no evidence, none whatsoever, that points to another person is significant. EDITED BY ME from post @11:36

    seagull65: The LE had created a timeline of the last DOCUMENTED observance of Caylee which was not within the habitation time at RM's apt. IF it had been determined that the phantom nanny existed, THEN all bets would have been off regarding the LE and their intensive searching most if not all of the high spots in the inmate's travels. The LIES/FABRICATIONS/MISTRUTHS/COVER-UPS are EXACTLY what got the inmate where she deserves to be: awaiting trial for the murder of her child.

    PS: last paragraph=IMO!
    “Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succure vitae”– Giovanni Margagni

    "This is the place where death rejoices to teach those who live."-
    Giovanni Margagni

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  40. #424
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    you know, talking about how Caylee looks different sizes in different pictures, I really forget how small Caylee actually was sometimes looking at pictures where she's alone or where she's next to Casey (who is very small herself). When you see a picture like that one where she's on RM's lap playing the drum, I see how small she actually was, she looks tiny and babylike.

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  42. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagull65 View Post
    you know, talking about how Caylee looks different sizes in different pictures, I really forget how small Caylee actually was sometimes looking at pictures where she's alone or where she's next to Casey (who is very small herself). When you see a picture like that one where she's on RM's lap playing the drum, I see how small she actually was, she looks tiny and babylike.
    Yes it pays to reflect on that. We can get quite academic on here, dissecting the evidence and the minutiae of the story, but this was a helpless little toddler, asphyxiated with duct tape by her mother, in what must have been a rage, and not reported 'missing' ( ie dead)by her mother until she was forced to. Justice for CAYLEE is the aim of all our examinings.


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