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Thread: Caylee's "Big Trouble..." Shirt Incl. Photos *Merged*

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devon View Post
    IF Caylee climbed into the pool with just a pull-up and T shirt on, then the shorts would not have been soaked in chlorinated water, and would not have then baked for days in a scorching car trunk - but the T shirt would have!

    It's not for no reason that swimwear manufacturers warn purchasers to always rinse their swimsuits after each use!

    Could this account for the mysterious near total rotting of the T shirt, but apparently good preservation of the shorts?

    Right - one at a time with the sharp sticks please!

    *resp. snipped.

    not even a pointy toothpick, scouts honour.
    why would casey put caylee's shorts on? if she wandered into the pool wearing pull-ups they'd have been drenched. if she was going to put the shorts on wouldn't she at least remove the soaking pull-ups? that doesn't make sense to me.
    people are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within.

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddeva View Post
    *resp. snipped.

    not even a pointy toothpick, scouts honour.
    why would casey put caylee's shorts on? if she wandered into the pool wearing pull-ups they'd have been drenched. if she was going to put the shorts on wouldn't she at least remove the soaking pull-ups? that doesn't make sense to me.
    We don't actually know what was 'on' Caylee when she died, only that certain clothes were found with the remains. IF she had found Caylee drowned in the pool, I think it's not unreasonable to think that she may have first got her out and laid her by the pool, perhaps trying to revive her, and then when she realised that it was too late (because of her own negligence) she may have got the blanket, wrapped Caylee, gathered up the shorts (red flag!) put the 'bundle' plus shorts in the trunk, and hit the gas as fast as she could!
    Oh what a tangled web we weave,
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  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devon View Post
    We don't actually know what was 'on' Caylee when she died, only that certain clothes were found with the remains. IF she had found Caylee drowned in the pool, I think it's not unreasonable to think that she may have first got her out and laid her by the pool, perhaps trying to revive her, and then when she realised that it was too late (because of her own negligence) she may have got the blanket, wrapped Caylee, gathered up the shorts (red flag!) put the 'bundle' plus shorts in the trunk, and hit the gas as fast as she could!

    it's possible, but i don't see how a mainly missing T-shirt really bolsters a drowning theory. i agree that any chemical present in the bag would have altered the enviroment there, but i don't personally believe that the chlorine from an above ground pool would be the crucial and defining element in causing the disintegration of the T-shirt. i still feel it's more likely that casey killed caylee and the shorts were just stronger.
    people are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within.

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  6. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddeva View Post
    it's possible, but i don't see how a mainly missing T-shirt really bolsters a drowning theory. i agree that any chemical present in the bag would have altered the enviroment there, but i don't personally believe that the chlorine from an above ground pool would be the crucial and defining element in causing the disintegration of the T-shirt. i still feel it's more likely that casey killed caylee and the shorts were just stronger.
    You may be right - I guess we need more forensic results. So many questions - so few answers!
    Oh what a tangled web we weave,
    when we set out to deceive!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devon View Post
    You may be right - I guess we need more forensic results. So many questions - so few answers!

    i couldn't agree w/ you more. i think i actually posted that and likely on this thread. we just don't have the information that we need to determine anything one way or the other. i do believe though that if something was amiss about the top LE would have known and looked into it. heck the body farm decomposed a pizza, why not a T-shirt? ok i know that sounds crazy but i honestly believe they'd take it that far just to make sure they'd covered everything.
    people are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within.

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  9. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by AquarianEssence View Post
    I really don't understand the shock that I would suggest LE should have searched the surrounding area since it is common knowledge that children are usually found within a mile of home, statistically speaking. Now, they went after the mother within the first 24 hours or the 911 call so they surely should have expected this to at least be a possiblitiy. Even if local law enforcement wasn't aware of this common denominator, the FBI was.
    What surprised me is that the A's didn't take a look in that area initially. It was after all a stone's throw from the house. All they seemed to be doing was sitting on their a##es, giving media appearances and begging for money. But then again, they didn't even bother to go to Sawgrass Apts per KC's first lie. Something very hinky when family members do nothing to assist in the search for their missing granddaughter.

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  11. #107
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    My thought on that is that George would likely have the cop attitude that the public should stay out of their way and let them do their job. They brought in a PI but may have felt they had to because there was very little looking for a live baby girl. Everyone reacts differently. Some would feel the need to be walking the fields and woods looking, others would feel they couldn't handle it if they found her or couldn't bear to do a woods search because that would mean having to consider the possibility she is dead. We all handle fear and grief differently.

    I've thought about Casey's statement a lot too, about them not even finding her clothes yet. To me, it felt like she was saying they haven't EVEN found her belongings that were with her, let alone finding her. The way I see it there are several things missing. I don't believe the white backpack has shown up in the car or the house. The body of the shirt is missing, not dissolved. There are no shoes. As others have said, most mothers never leave the house without a full day's worth of supplies. For one of my kids I had a small diaper bag and also took another bag. Whether using diapers or training pants I had as many as would fit with a couple changes of clothes, a couple plastic bags to hold dirty diapers and clothes, wipes, my Caley Cream, a bag of chex or something similar, something to drink, small toys. There were only two pull ups and no clothes in the bag they found and it wasn't white. I believe there is still a bag out there. She probably had two backpacks in the car that day, one left in there and the freshly packed one. I had one with toys and extra diapers I just left in the car. As much as Casey was on the road she likely had multiple bags going on too, especially if they were small.

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  13. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by AquarianEssence View Post
    I've thought about Casey's statement a lot too, about them not even finding her clothes yet. To me, it felt like she was saying they haven't EVEN found her belongings that were with her, let alone finding her. The way I see it there are several things missing. I don't believe the white backpack has shown up in the car or the house. The body of the shirt is missing, not dissolved. There are no shoes. As others have said, most mothers never leave the house without a full day's worth of supplies. For one of my kids I had a small diaper bag and also took another bag. Whether using diapers or training pants I had as many as would fit with a couple changes of clothes, a couple plastic bags to hold dirty diapers and clothes, wipes, my Caley Cream, a bag of chex or something similar, something to drink, small toys. There were only two pull ups and no clothes in the bag they found and it wasn't white. I believe there is still a bag out there. She probably had two backpacks in the car that day, one left in there and the freshly packed one. I had one with toys and extra diapers I just left in the car. As much as Casey was on the road she likely had multiple bags going on too, especially if they were small.
    *respectfully snipped by me*

    A loving, caring mother may or may not use more than one bag to hold their child's belongings. Therefore, you may have a point and there may be a bag still out there somewhere. If indeed there was more than one bag in use, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts the missing one has long-since been disposed of where it will never be found.

    However, if KC left the house knowing full well that Caylee would never need anything ever again (nicest way I can say/think it ) she wouldn't be worried about packing or toting the heavier bag. My feeling is the bag found with her was one that usually stayed in the car, and KC just grabbed it and got rid of it at the same time.

    On-Topic: I use rags made from the same material most t-shirts are (jersey knit cotton) for cleaning my hot-tub. When the snow melted this year, I found one that had been missed being picked up before the snows arrived. I was amazed at the amount of degradation the material had gone through during the winter. As such, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the remainder of the t-shirt had degraded to mere threads due to the elements and animal activity.

    As always, JMO.

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  15. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaerieB View Post
    *respectfully snipped by me*

    A loving, caring mother may or may not use more than one bag to hold their child's belongings. Therefore, you may have a point and there may be a bag still out there somewhere. If indeed there was more than one bag in use, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts the missing one has long-since been disposed of where it will never be found.

    However, if KC left the house knowing full well that Caylee would never need anything ever again (nicest way I can say/think it ) she wouldn't be worried about packing or toting the heavier bag. My feeling is the bag found with her was one that usually stayed in the car, and KC just grabbed it and got rid of it at the same time.

    On-Topic: I use rags made from the same material most t-shirts are (jersey knit cotton) for cleaning my hot-tub. When the snow melted this year, I found one that had been missed being picked up before the snows arrived. I was amazed at the amount of degradation the material had gone through during the winter. As such, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the remainder of the t-shirt had degraded to mere threads due to the elements and animal activity.

    As always, JMO.
    The problem is the bag they found doesn't match the one seen go out the door with her so isn't likely the main one as shown by not much in there. But more importantly, if she were going to dispose of what she had with her along with her daughter she surely would have disposed of the momma doll and car seat.

    Freezing and thawing puts enormous wear and tear on anything. It doesn't freeze and thaw in the summer and fall in Florida. Even in the winter they get no more than heavy frost and slight freeze. But my point still stands that even denim shorts would show similar decay, although not as extreme as a lighter weight fabric. By the way, I just picked up a towel that had been out through half a Michigan summer, complete fall and winter and it was still in one piece, not even a hole. It was in the shade most of the day which might have helped. It wouldn't hold up to laundering though, so I threw it out. I've found a lot of fabric items laying around over the years, even a year later. The ones in the sun with a lot of rain degrade the fastest but not fast enough for the whole body and sleeves to disappear unless there is a lot of acid rain in their hurricanes.

    I guess we'll just have to wait for the expert report on the condition of the stitching in the neck band. If the SA fails to do it I'm sure the defense will. An expert will be able to see if the stitching is broken from a tear or if it is deteriorated, along with comparing to the shorts stitching, the same thread likely used. If it was deterioration the shorts seams will be separated.

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    A cotton t-shirt may very well decompose quicker, along with the body. The shorts, possibly made of a more durable denim type material, even if they were white with stripes, might have been able to better withstand the elements and the decomp of the body.

    Sorry to be gross and morbid but what do we know of clothing found on skeletanized remains?

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  18. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by AquarianEssence View Post
    The problem is the bag they found doesn't match the one seen go out the door with her so isn't likely the main one as shown by not much in there.
    Snipped,

    Unfortunately, it's most probable that GA is mistaken about what Caylee was wearing when he last saw her on June 16. The shorts and T shirt found with the remains are not the ones he described, so it's likely that he was also wrong about the backpack. The one found in the car was a Dora the Explorer one, not white with monkeys on, as he described.
    Oh what a tangled web we weave,
    when we set out to deceive!

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  20. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devon View Post
    Snipped,

    Unfortunately, it's most probable that GA is mistaken about what Caylee was wearing when he last saw her on June 16. The shorts and T shirt found with the remains are not the ones he described, so it's likely that he was also wrong about the backpack. The one found in the car was a Dora the Explorer one, not white with monkeys on, as he described.
    GA was "mistaken" or telling an Anthony "mistruth".......

    (Reminder: The last time Caylee was seen alive by non-family members, ie impartial witnesses was the late morning/early afternoon of June 15, 2008. This IS important!)

  21. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
    A cotton t-shirt may very well decompose quicker, along with the body. The shorts, possibly made of a more durable denim type material, even if they were white with stripes, might have been able to better withstand the elements and the decomp of the body.

    Sorry to be gross and morbid but what do we know of clothing found on skeletanized remains?


    I agree about the type of material. Even if both were 100% cotton, there are different weight cottons, and different methods of binding the fibers (woven vs. knit, for instance). There are so many variables, (water, wind, animal activity, heat) I don't see how it could be confidently determined that the shirt is missing rather than deteriorated without further info. In addition, the position of the remains in the bag(s) could factor in. Water or decomp. fluids might pool at one end of the bag for instance, subjecting some of the clothing to more staining and deterioration. If this is the case, (the shirt in the pooled fluid) animals might have been more attracted to it than the shorts, chewed and torn the shirt and carried pieces away. Any remnants that were dropped, could certainly be blown away by the wind.

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  23. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devon View Post
    Snipped,

    Unfortunately, it's most probable that GA is mistaken about what Caylee was wearing when he last saw her on June 16. The shorts and T shirt found with the remains are not the ones he described, so it's likely that he was also wrong about the backpack. The one found in the car was a Dora the Explorer one, not white with monkeys on, as he described.
    Caylee was found in a pink shirt and he stated she had a pink shirt on. He also said he had jean shorts(skirt) and white shoes.

    It is not improbable that he was correct. Casey could have changed her shorts back at the house that afternoon to the white and pink striped shorts and took her shoes off. ( She could have wet herself or had a accident during potty training.) We also do not know if Caylee during the day was starting to wear "big girl" panties and were put in pull-ups during her name.
    I used to change my little girls bottoms at least 2 times a day during the first part of potty training.

    Dora Explorer backpack could very well have BOOTS THE MONKEY on the backpack and that is what he noticed. Do we have a picture in the documents of the backpack?
    ~~~~ There is a fine line between being a busybody and a sleuth.~~~~

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  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phumi View Post
    I agree about the type of material. Even if both were 100% cotton, there are different weight cottons, and different methods of binding the fibers (woven vs. knit, for instance). There are so many variables, (water, wind, animal activity, heat) I don't see how it could be confidently determined that the shirt is missing rather than deteriorated without further info. In addition, the position of the remains in the bag(s) could factor in. Water or decomp. fluids might pool at one end of the bag for instance, subjecting some of the clothing to more staining and deterioration. If this is the case, (the shirt in the pooled fluid) animals might have been more attracted to it than the shorts, chewed and torn the shirt and carried pieces away. Any remnants that were dropped, could certainly be blown away by the wind.
    Animals would have been more attracted to the body, where the real food is rather than the clothing. The body wasn't scattered in the way that animals would have scattered, some of the larger bones being found in or still very near the bag. If you read very carefully where each of the bones listed were found and read about the way scavengers treat remains you will see what I mean. The description sounds more like the bones were washed away down hill, that is, if the pelvis would easily float. It will be interesting to see what the experts have to say on this one. Also, animals usually start at the head and hers was perfectly upright, not the way an animal would leave it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AquarianEssence View Post
    Animals would have been more attracted to the body, where the real food is rather than the clothing. The body wasn't scattered in the way that animals would have scattered, some of the larger bones being found in or still very near the bag. If you read very carefully where each of the bones listed were found and read about the way scavengers treat remains you will see what I mean. The description sounds more like the bones were washed away down hill, that is, if the pelvis would easily float. It will be interesting to see what the experts have to say on this one. Also, animals usually start at the head and hers was perfectly upright, not the way an animal would leave it.

    Well, that would support the tearing of the shirt even more. Tear through the shirt to get to the body.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phumi View Post
    Well, that would support the tearing of the shirt even more. Tear through the shirt to get to the body.
    The largest muscles and organs within the body, most attractive to the animal arew within the shorts, the buttocks, thighs, liver...They are also the hardest to get at when dressed and would require more tearing. The top just lifts up.

  29. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by AquarianEssence View Post
    The largest muscles and organs within the body, most attractive to the animal arew within the shorts, the buttocks, thighs, liver...They are also the hardest to get at when dressed and would require more tearing. The top just lifts up.

    Of course we don't know she was dressed, do we? The clothes could have been just thrown in the bag. I'm sorry, for me, there is just no good reason to suspect anything other than animal activity, or disintegration from the elements. Also you said animals start at the head--so then they just skip the torso and go straight for the lower regions? Are you talking about larger animals? Much of the animal activity comes from insects and very small rodents. I don't believe they necessarily follow the pattern you have indicated.

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  31. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by AquarianEssence View Post
    Animals would have been more attracted to the body, where the real food is rather than the clothing. The body wasn't scattered in the way that animals would have scattered, some of the larger bones being found in or still very near the bag. If you read very carefully where each of the bones listed were found and read about the way scavengers treat remains you will see what I mean. The description sounds more like the bones were washed away down hill, that is, if the pelvis would easily float. It will be interesting to see what the experts have to say on this one. Also, animals usually start at the head and hers was perfectly upright, not the way an animal would leave it.
    Kronk stated when he poked at the bag, the skull rolled out.
    so who really knows how the skull was, if left untouched

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  33. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phumi View Post
    Of course we don't know she was dressed, do we? The clothes could have been just thrown in the bag. I'm sorry, for me, there is just no good reason to suspect anything other than animal activity, or disintegration from the elements. Also you said animals start at the head--so then they just skip the torso and go straight for the lower regions? Are you talking about larger animals? Much of the animal activity comes from insects and very small rodents. I don't believe they necessarily follow the pattern you have indicated.
    Yes, here I was referring to larger animals and birds. They wouldn't have need to tear the shirt up, but may the shorts. All of the smaller creatures I've observed go for the entrails. The lower abdomen is the easiest way into the body without bone obstruction.

    Sumbunny, the detective said her skull could not have rolled out as Kronk stated and that makes perfect sense to me. It isn't very likely that it would land perfectly upright having the center of gravity on the mouth area. Remember, there was extra weight attached there. Plus the hair was spread around and on top and the ground looked as though it had been there for a period of time, not just landing there that day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sumbunny View Post
    Kronk stated when he poked at the bag, the skull rolled out.
    so who really knows how the skull was, if left untouched
    While that was what he initially said, he recanted that statement and said the skull was uncovered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AquarianEssence View Post
    Yes, here I was referring to larger animals and birds. They wouldn't have need to tear the shirt up, but may the shorts. All of the smaller creatures I've observed go for the entrails. The lower abdomen is the easiest way into the body without bone obstruction.

    Sumbunny, the detective said her skull could not have rolled out as Kronk stated and that makes perfect sense to me. It isn't very likely that it would land perfectly upright having the center of gravity on the mouth area. Remember, there was extra weight attached there. Plus the hair was spread around and on top and the ground looked as though it had been there for a period of time, not just landing there that day.
    We also have to consider water creatures that may have been there during the flooding. Birds that will take scraps of fabric for nest building and further animal activity after the soft tissue was gone as well. As I stated before, just too many variables , in my opinion, to consider the missing shirt fabric suspicious.

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  38. #123
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    the ~ L I E S ~ caused even more trouble ! ! !

    Quote Originally Posted by doogiesgirl View Post
    [/B]

    Above bolded by me.

    In Haleigh's case, the reason LE searched the woods next to her home is that Haleigh was taken from her home, her bed, in the middle of the night. In Caylee's case, KC left the Anthony home with Caylee 31 days before she was reported missing to LE, KC told LE that she dropped Caylee off at Sawgrass, then the story switched to Blanchard Park. I believe LE does their very best in those critical first hours and days with what is being reported to them. Why would they search the woods by Caylee's home those first few days when according to her mother, she dropped her off somewhere else 31 days before? Also KC and her family were insisting that Caylee was alive. And didn't LE or/and TES try to search that area? jmo

    SEE........ KC's lies.... more trouble again !!!!!!!

    makes me so angry !

    The Lies and web of lies & WEB OF LIES UPON TOP OF ~ L I E S !!!

    that
    should make a jury take a good hard L@@K !!!!!!

    JMO
    God Bless!
    jjgram


    *** I think it is disgusting !

    KC U deserve to be
    ***Seeking ~JUSTICE~ PRAYING FOR PEACE & JOY FOR THOSE WHO NEED IT * * * ONE DAY @ A TIME ! ! !:Justice:

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  40. #124
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    True for Parents & Grandparents !!! Extra Clothes in case of Emergency !

    Quote Originally Posted by AquarianEssence View Post
    My thought on that is that George would likely have the cop attitude that the public should stay out of their way and let them do their job. They brought in a PI but may have felt they had to because there was very little looking for a live baby girl. Everyone reacts differently. Some would feel the need to be walking the fields and woods looking, others would feel they couldn't handle it if they found her or couldn't bear to do a woods search because that would mean having to consider the possibility she is dead. We all handle fear and grief differently.

    I've thought about Casey's statement a lot too, about them not even finding her clothes yet. To me, it felt like she was saying they haven't EVEN found her belongings that were with her, let alone finding her. The way I see it there are several things missing. I don't believe the white backpack has shown up in the car or the house. The body of the shirt is missing, not dissolved. There are no shoes. As others have said, most mothers never leave the house without a full day's worth of supplies. For one of my kids I had a small diaper bag and also took another bag. Whether using diapers or training pants I had as many as would fit with a couple changes of clothes, a couple plastic bags to hold dirty diapers and clothes, wipes, my Caley Cream, a bag of chex or something similar, something to drink, small toys. There were only two pull ups and no clothes in the bag they found and it wasn't white. I believe there is still a bag out there. She probably had two backpacks in the car that day, one left in there and the freshly packed one. I had one with toys and extra diapers I just left in the car. As much as Casey was on the road she likely had multiple bags going on too, especially if they were small.
    I agree !
    this is a very good ~ helpful ~ post !

    *** Although ~ I will say... I do NOT believe KC was a
    good mother !
    Because any mother... would call 911 or at least get her
    own parents/family to search for the missing TODDLER !!!

    not dialing 911
    Not Telling family is the ultimate RED FLAG

    and the shirt....... missing clothes NOT BEING FOUND>...

    disgusting statement by KC !!!!!

    *** Clothing today is NOT made strong... to last like clothing
    of the past... TODAY's Clothing is made to last a season....
    or maybe enough for one / child/ or brother and sister to wear....
    but
    not to last like clothing of the PAST !!! JMO that is why
    the $$$$ Prices are less !!!!
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    ***Seeking ~JUSTICE~ PRAYING FOR PEACE & JOY FOR THOSE WHO NEED IT * * * ONE DAY @ A TIME ! ! !:Justice:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devon View Post
    We don't actually know what was 'on' Caylee when she died, only that certain clothes were found with the remains. IF she had found Caylee drowned in the pool, I think it's not unreasonable to think that she may have first got her out and laid her by the pool, perhaps trying to revive her, and then when she realised that it was too late (because of her own negligence) she may have got the blanket, wrapped Caylee, gathered up the shorts (red flag!) put the 'bundle' plus shorts in the trunk, and hit the gas as fast as she could!

    And what about the chloroform?

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