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  1. #1
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    Talking A question about JB's head wound

    If I'm not mistaken, the fracture to JB's skull was on the right side. Speculating that JB was facing her killer, wouldn't this mean that the person was left-handed? I've read a couple of the bks about the case, but I don't remember this being mentioned. Of course, if the killer was standing behind JB at the time or if JB was face-down on the floor, a right-handed killer could also strike the blow on the right side of the head. Just something I've been wondering about.
    dalcanton

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalcanton View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, the fracture to JB's skull was on the right side. Speculating that JB was facing her killer, wouldn't this mean that the person was left-handed? I've read a couple of the bks about the case, but I don't remember this being mentioned. Of course, if the killer was standing behind JB at the time or if JB was face-down on the floor, a right-handed killer could also strike the blow on the right side of the head. Just something I've been wondering about.
    You bring up some good points. But consider this: I believe that JB was likely facing away, most likely trying to get away.

    OR, your idea does not take into account one thing: maybe JB was not hit. Maybe she was thrown into something.

    Think it over.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  3. #3
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    Yes, you bring up some good points, too. Like everything else in this case, there are just too many scenarios that it makes my brain hurt!
    dalcanton

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalcanton View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, the fracture to JB's skull was on the right side. Speculating that JB was facing her killer, wouldn't this mean that the person was left-handed? I've read a couple of the bks about the case, but I don't remember this being mentioned. Of course, if the killer was standing behind JB at the time or if JB was face-down on the floor, a right-handed killer could also strike the blow on the right side of the head. Just something I've been wondering about.
    It could also have been a backhand swing, using the right hand wielding an object from left to right.
    Or she was slammed against an object. There are many variables regarding the angle in which the victim was positioned toward the attacker, especially if the victim was moving like in a struggle.

  5. #5
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    I feel that given the location of the fracture and what I feel is the chain of events leading up to it, I's say she was struck by someone standing behind her, possibly slightly to the side. If she was slammed, the hole punched in her skull would probably have been more in the center. The coroner did say "blunt force trauma" which usually means being hit with an object. While I have some problems with some of the things Mayer did, I would think a coroner who is also an ME could tell if she was slammed into something versus being bludgeoned.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalcanton View Post
    Yes, you bring up some good points, too. Like everything else in this case, there are just too many scenarios that it makes my brain hurt!
    Hi dalcaton.
    So many good scenarios.

    re the head injury while in bed, wouldn't it depend on the position in which she slept?

    CW scenario suggests a right handed abuser, indicated by the "abrasion and vascular congestion of the vaginal mucosa.":
    http://www.geocities.com/SiliconVall...101/wecht.html

    The same damaged spot that proved prior contact of a sexually abusive nature had again been inflamed the night she died.

  7. #7
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    http://www.geocities.com/SiliconVall...101/wecht.html

    with respect to the head injury, in addition to the blunt force trauma,

    CW notes bruising of the temporal lobes of the brain:

    "The third reference also fascinated the medical detective. He had seen such bruises to the temporal lobes of the brain -- the portions that lie behind the temples on the sides of the head -- and they often resulted from shaking someone and causing the brain to shift inside the skull, striking the bone on the sides. This report offered no reference ot injuries on the outside of the head at those locations, so the internal bruises probably were not the result of blows."

  8. #8
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    I've often wondered if JB was in bed,lying on her side (or,at least she turned to the side before she was struck..since we know she was heard screaming,so she would have been struggling),as Patsy did pose the question 'I don't see any blood,do you????', when shown a pic of the bed (specifically she was asking about the headboard) during one of her interviews.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    I've often wondered if JB was in bed,lying on her side (or,at least she turned to the side before she was struck..since we know she was heard screaming,so she would have been struggling),as Patsy did pose the question 'I don't see any blood,do you????', when shown a pic of the bed (specifically she was asking about the headboard) during one of her interviews.
    JBR lying on her side could have produced a hole like that, I suppose. I always thought PR was talking about the curtain above the bed, not the headboard, but her comment was suspicious no matter what part of the bed she meant. Even the coroner didn't know about the head bash till the autopsy. But you can bet there was blood-tinged fluids from that and the strangulation too, oozing from her nose and mouth. But the blood that was wiped from her pubic area would have been significantly more.
    All I know is that LE finished up with that house FAR too soon, and as soon as it was released, the group of R friends and supporters who purchased the house tore up that carpet as quickly as they could. And painted all the walls.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  10. #10
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    I agree Deedee,and how odd that PP was allowed to go in so quickly and raid the house.

    Wouldn't it be great if someday the technology came along that could uncover whatever was painted over..I know,it's a longshot.And the carpet is forever gone,just the way they wanted it.No going back now to that,other than whatever LE had already removed.

    The way the house was so quickly released it just as suspect to me as the cornoner's major goofs,esp. the part where he didn't even take an internal body temp.That is important in establishing a TOD,and thereby in also establishing alibi's for the major suspects..something they apparently didn't want to home in too closely on.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    I agree Deedee,and how odd that PP was allowed to go in so quickly and raid the house.

    Wouldn't it be great if someday the technology came along that could uncover whatever was painted over..I know,it's a longshot.And the carpet is forever gone,just the way they wanted it.No going back now to that,other than whatever LE had already removed.

    The way the house was so quickly released it just as suspect to me as the cornoner's major goofs,esp. the part where he didn't even take an internal body temp.That is important in establishing a TOD,and thereby in also establishing alibi's for the major suspects..something they apparently didn't want to home in too closely on.
    That last sentence says it all. From start to finish- the word came down NOT too look too closely at this case as far as the parents were concerned.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  12. #12
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    Yes and I used to work in a hospital,and I can't imagine purposely following improper procedure,esp. not where a child's murder is concerned.The coroner KNEW he was messing things up,and he did it on purpose.That is not the way he was trained,and I can't believe he was just being careless and sloppy.

    if anything,in a normal investigation,you'd think a wealthy family would receive extra-good investigative techniques,paying particular attention to detail and spending more time on the case if needed.didn't happen.it went just the opposite...look away..look away...(as goes the song..).
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    Yes and I used to work in a hospital,and I can't imagine purposely following improper procedure,esp. not where a child's murder is concerned.The coroner KNEW he was messing things up,and he did it on purpose.That is not the way he was trained,and I can't believe he was just being careless and sloppy.

    if anything,in a normal investigation,you'd think a wealthy family would receive extra-good investigative techniques,paying particular attention to detail and spending more time on the case if needed.didn't happen.it went just the opposite...look away..look away...(as goes the song..).
    I have to think his handling of this autopsy was deliberately sloppy. Not every coroner is also a Medical Examiner (MD), but Mayer WAS. He knew better.
    Not to try to establish a TOD when first examining the victim is a serious omission. Maybe Hunter & Mayer already knew what happened and were just going through the motions.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  14. #14
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    Something was fishy,for sure,to just leave her body there all day long,not take an internal temp,and not use a different pair of sterile scissors for each nail (is there anything else?) Right off the top of my head,those three things come to mind.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    Something was fishy,for sure,to just leave her body there all day long,not take an internal temp,and not use a different pair of sterile scissors for each nail (is there anything else?) Right off the top of my head,those three things come to mind.
    The failure to use separate sterile nail clippers was a gross error. There has been MUCH made of whatever was found under JBR's fingernails over the years, and all along it could have come from some poor stiff in the next drawer over.
    Failure to take internal temp via liver stab was sloppy forensic work. The body cools at predicted rates, but where it cooled does makes a difference. The basement, her bedroom, outside on a cold December night, or in a car trunk. In a kidnapping/murder, this was VERY important at the inset of an investigation.
    Failure to sample the vitreous fluid of the eye was also sloppy forensics. The potassium levels found there are perhaps more accurate as a gauge of TOD than the liver temp, as body temp will vary with ambient temperature, but the potassium levels in the eye won't.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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