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  1. #1
    belimom's Avatar
    belimom is offline Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter ~MLK Jr
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    JR's story credible...?

    Please forgive me if there's another thread on this, or if this is inappropriate...

    I work with children and have two small children myself. My son is six, and at times when he wakes in the night, he does not remember anything the next morning. Even if we ask him about something that happened or something he said in the night, he either doesn't remember it at all or laughs and says, "Oh I thought that was a dream!" For a child, who is in deep sleep, remembering details the next morning -- or a week or two later -- about something that took place over a few minutes in the middle of the night just doesn't seem likely to me.

    There's also the possibility of retroactive interference: something that happens after an event can literally alter your memory of the event (eg: our family added a family room on when I was about 10 or 12. Before that we celebrated xmas in our "den", but afterwards in the new family room. HOWEVER, when I have memories of early xmases, I picture them in the family room even though it didn't exist. I can remember opening specific presents, etc, but my brain has transferred the location to the new family room.).

    So here's my theory of JR's story: Haleigh goes missing. And he knows nothing. Yet, he hears talk about it day/night, different theories, etc. He then dreams something about it (which I'm sure he did even if he doesn't remember the dream/s). He then thinks *that* is what he remembered and relays it as fact.

    As for squeaky shoes, if you were stealing a child, would you wear squeaky shoes to do so?!? Probably not.

  2. #2
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    Not unless it was the Creature from the black lagoon walking out of the water into the trailer,(old movie from any younguns here,lake next to trailer,whatever).LOL Anyway,he just seemed like he was going along with whatever she said and I know my kids when they were telling a story that was a big deal to them,they'd be flinging thier arms and thier eyes would get big and they would enact what they saw.It just seemed like feeding him chips was keeping his mouth from talking,so he could just nod to whatever she asked.IMO

  3. #3
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    My children have all been the same way, never remembering the things they said and did while asleep. I am positive that when my children were 5 and 3 yo respectively, that my 3 yo slept through many nights of his 5 yo sister being moved from one bed into another room. I can also see my 6 yo not waking up immediately if the person carrying her called her by name and told her to go back to sleep, even if it were not me or my husband.

    So if there is a kidnapper, and that kidnapper was known to Hayleigh, then she may have not made any loud noise at all even if she were picked up while sleeping. If she didn't make any loud noise or seem to be in danger, then likely RJ would not really remember anything or even have stirred.
    "The opinion prevailed among advanced minds that it was time that belief should be replaced increasingly by knowledge; belief that did not itself rest on knowledge was superstition, and as such had to be opposed." - Albert Einstein

  4. #4
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    Given that he was three when this happened and turned 4 after the abduction I would say that there is a very good chance that this story is not reliable. I'm just going to wait for LE to comment if they say it is, then I will change my opinion.
    "Three things in human life are important: The first is to be kind; the second is to be kind; and the third is to be kind." ~ Henry James

  5. #5
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    Squeaky Shoes

    The little boy could have heard squeaks when the intruder walked. Not necessarily shoes, but the floor, which has been discussed in another thread. I understand that the mobile home itself has a lot of noises of squeaking and creaking when entering, and walking across the floor. I think there may be something to his statement. My first instinct is to believe, then try to explain away things. But always, that first instinct has credibility. I know what I first see or hear, then begin immediately to doubt myself, especially when I try to apply logic. His story may change as adults around him ask him leading questions, but I would go with his very first statements. .
    Last edited by hornswoggled; 03-01-2009 at 03:23 PM. Reason: Edited to remove speculation about who intruder was
    “When the lives and the rights of children are at stake, there must be no silent witnesses.” Carol Bellamy

  6. #6
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    I'm not sure I believe his story, he is five and his sissy is missing, he may be telling a "story" to help find her. I just doubt children that young when they tell you what they saw. He may have heard adults talking and he saw all the police and FBI and maybe he is trying to help in his own little way.

  7. #7
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    I doubt that his story is reliable due to his age and also, I am sure he has heard probabilities discussed in the both camps and he is likely not able to differentiate between fact and fiction at this point.

  8. #8
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    I would say that RJ saw something...but was it in a dream, was a figment of his imagination based on hearing the adults talk or was it the abductor, that I don't know.

    From what I have seen of the little boy, he doesn't have the social skills to even be able to describe things in the way Crystal says he did. Now, I know that he saw something and did talk about it to LE, it's one of the few things they have confirmed. But did he actually speak the words, I doubt it. It was probably on the same level that we saw last night, a lot of nodding and using toys to demonstrate.

    The way I see it, LE has heard RJ's story, we as the public have not. What we heard last night was Crystals story, with a bit of corroboration from her son.
    I don't consider what was said last night to be credible, but we don't know what RJ said directly to LE.
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.

  9. #9
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    I have doubts about his story. Especially because it came days after Haleigh disapeared. When my eldest daughter was 4 she broker her sister's leg (who was 3) by accident when they where wrestling and went over the arm of the couch. She told DCF a couple days later that there was a picture on my wall of a girl playing the piano (which there was) and that there where spiders all over it (there where NO spiders in the house, bizzare) and mommy droped it on her sister's leg by accident. I dont know if she told them this because she thought she was going to get in trouble or because she dreamed this that night or at sometime.

    Maybe he's afraid RC will get in trouble or MC or he could have dreamed this because of all the people talking about someone sneaking in and taking Haleigh.

    Children that age cannot tell fact from fiction. my gd who is 2 1/2 will tell you that her care bear drew on the wall or her care bear poured milk on the floor.etc.
    Cindi Lou


    Some people may consider me crazy, I say I'm just inspired.

  10. #10
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    I really think he might have had a dream or he is just trying to help. It doesn't seem plausible to me that "squeaky shoes" would wake him up. Trailers have thin walls, if squeaky shoes were enough to wake him up, he must not have ever gotten any sleep. Even if the floors are squeaky, Ron and Misty walk around on them alot normally when he is sleeping, you adjust to those kind of noises. KWIM?


  11. #11
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    This boy of barely four (not five) doesn't appear able to verbalize especially well tho understandably may just feel shy around media and camera crews. But what he is saying has now undoubtedly been repeated ie this is hardly the first time he's been asked to go over this story. While I think the main jist of it may have remained the same (that he could have in fact seen a man he recalls wearing black clothing), I don't think it's helping to have his family members (again, understandably) much less media and other unprofessionals asking him to repeat the details over and over--which should be off limits as it jeopardizes not only his witness but possibly his safety as well. As we can see the details we're hearing are already beginning to evolve or morph... ie now instead of simply a "man wearing black" it's a "black man wearing black." It's the details of what was once his intially credible story which become to me less credible, and more suspect, w every retelling... ETA: "Squeaky shoes" doesn't sound to me like a detail that a then three year-old could likely embellish. This seems like one eg of something Jr. probably was able to recount for LE that likely assisted them in ruling out gf as implicated directly. I think his reporting he saw gf there at some point is of little use in establishing that she was there the entire time, at the precise time when sissy was taken, nor how cognizant or even if she was conscious. JMO


  12. #12
    I agree with those who have strong doubts about this.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleuthster View Post
    I have doubts about his story. Especially because it came days after Haleigh disapeared. When my eldest daughter was 4 she broker her sister's leg (who was 3) by accident when they where wrestling and went over the arm of the couch. She told DCF a couple days later that there was a picture on my wall of a girl playing the piano (which there was) and that there where spiders all over it (there where NO spiders in the house, bizzare) and mommy droped it on her sister's leg by accident. I dont know if she told them this because she thought she was going to get in trouble or because she dreamed this that night or at sometime.

    Maybe he's afraid RC will get in trouble or MC or he could have dreamed this because of all the people talking about someone sneaking in and taking Haleigh.

    Children that age cannot tell fact from fiction. my gd who is 2 1/2 will tell you that her care bear drew on the wall or her care bear poured milk on the floor.etc.
    (bold mine) Agree w bolded. This seems to be the risk inherent in returning Jr. to the care of the dad and gf when they haven't yet been cleared. Which isn't to say either is directly involved, but a caregiver or parent could pressure or use subtle coercion especially if that child is the only one who can either affirm, or refute, their version of events. JMO

    Last edited by kiki the parrot; 03-02-2009 at 12:40 PM.

  14. #14
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    I am new to your blogging site and have to say that you are some of the most informed and intelligent people online! (I have done a little lurking before choosing to join.) I have a degree in Early Childhood Development and 30 yrs of experience working with young children. I truly concur with many of you that JR has confused reality with imagination in this matter. He has to be extremely stressed about his missing sister and all of the confusion surrounding him. He is undoubtedly experiencing fear for his sister and himself. The person in black is probably a result of dreams mixed with the reality which he cannot comprehend. The person in black could in Jr's mind represent Batman or a positive character simply to reassure himself that Haleigh is OK! JMO.

    Sorry, if I have rambled too much! : )

  15. #15
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    my opinion on the matter...

    Last night we clearly saw that CS doesn't mind talking "openly" about "adult" stuff. I'm sure many of you may agree with this...but when I was child, my parents didn't argue in front of us, didn't talk about financial problems, etc. CS seems to do things differently (to each their own)...BUT I'm thinking that while RJ was with her (the weekend of his bday/her visitation)... I think that possibly the "adults" were talking bout different scenarios and RJ was sitting right there hearing it all & basically repeated what he heard.

    I'm 29...I still wake up at different times of the morning and/or night & have no memory of them. I've been that way for a long time. Maybe if I had children or whatnot I would be a little more alert...I'm not sure. Just speaking personally here...

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