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  1. #1
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    AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #5

    Please continue here.

    Thread #1
    Thread #2
    Thread #3
    Thread #4

    Salem

    PS - I asked the moderator to change the title to #5.
    Last edited by OkieGranny; 05-18-2015 at 01:20 AM. Reason: broken links

  2. #2
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    Thank you for the new thread, Salem.

    Maybe there will be some news tomorrow. They're SUPPOSED to have the sentencing hearing. But I'm not counting on that happening.

    The def put in for an expert for presentence evaluation, but the judge hasn't responded. Now that they've stopped the clock, they'll just take their sweet time. They probably think if they delay long enough, no one will be looking.

    I don't believe they could have messed up this case any more if they tried.

    JMHO
    fran

  3. #3
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    I bet you are right - waiting for the masses to calm down. This is such a sad case. I have to go back and catch up on the other thread. I haven't read there for a couple of days and I'm way behind on what is happening.

    Salem

  4. #4
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    There's really not much happening since the plea deal. Oh, except Eryn, the child's mom appeared on GMA yesterday. People were whining about her not doing anything IF she thought the child was innocent. She went on GMA and they didn't like what she said and said she's lying. She can't win.


    I hope she is able to get someone to help her, pro-bono. She's a single mom with two kids, trying to do the best she can. It's difficult when you don't have any $$ and the state puts aim at you (or your child).

    Tough odds.

    JMHO
    fran

  5. #5
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    I personally see no reason, either morally or legally, the State should seal the records of this investigation. Up to this time, the State had NO PROBLEM plastering everything they WANTED on the internet for everyone and his brother to read. They didn't even redact the child's name, plastering his name all over the world.

    They say the child is guilty. They've got him to plea guilty. They got their way.

    What they have put on the internet so far, shows only a small portion of what SHOULD have been a double murder investigation. IF they have nothing to hide, they would go ahead and file ALL they have. By NOT FILING it, that make them LOOK, APPEAR, as if they don't want everyone to see how they completed their investigation.

    It's my understanding, that in order for a judge to ACCEPT a plea deal, he must first be certain a complete and thorough investigation has been done.

    They started this............putting everything out there. Now let them finish it, prove it.

    To seal the files at this point, IMHO, is ridiculous and making them look as if they're hiding something.

    JMHO
    fran

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by fran View Post
    Thank you for the new thread, Salem.

    Maybe there will be some news tomorrow. They're SUPPOSED to have the sentencing hearing. But I'm not counting on that happening.

    The def put in for an expert for presentence evaluation, but the judge hasn't responded. Now that they've stopped the clock, they'll just take their sweet time. They probably think if they delay long enough, no one will be looking.

    I don't believe they could have messed up this case any more if they tried.

    JMHO
    fran
    Here's the thing for me... They have "stopped" the clock, but why???? I agree that there is a stragedy that is going on here. None of it makes any sense. Why seal the investigation regarding this crime? I get the age of the child, but why seal it for the *crime*? I find that baffling.

    What are in the documents regarding the investigation that no one is allowed to see??? It makes absolutely no sense. Any part of this case and how it has been handled. *Major* red flags. Oh, and FWIW, I am not thinking just of the child, I am very much thinking about this crime ****as a whole****.

    imo
    "I went to the bank and asked to borrow a cup of money. They said, "What for?". I said, "I'm going to buy some sugar".

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by fran View Post
    I personally see no reason, either morally or legally, the State should seal the records of this investigation. Up to this time, the State had NO PROBLEM plastering everything they WANTED on the internet for everyone and his brother to read. They didn't even redact the child's name, plastering his name all over the world.

    They say the child is guilty. They've got him to plea guilty. They got their way.

    What they have put on the internet so far, shows only a small portion of what SHOULD have been a double murder investigation. IF they have nothing to hide, they would go ahead and file ALL they have. By NOT FILING it, that make them LOOK, APPEAR, as if they don't want everyone to see how they completed their investigation.

    It's my understanding, that in order for a judge to ACCEPT a plea deal, he must first be certain a complete and thorough investigation has been done.

    They started this............putting everything out there. Now let them finish it, prove it.

    To seal the files at this point, IMHO, is ridiculous and making them look as if they're hiding something.

    JMHO
    fran

    It only appears that way to a very select few of conspiracy theorists, IMO


    Nosy by Nature and a Websleuther by choice

  8. #8
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    I agree with both of you. I believe the records will be sealed so that the prosecution can cover its arse. Taking this case back to the very beginning and the confession, things were screwed up. When the cops lied to the boy about someone seeing him, they put the boy in the position of no matter what he said, he would be lying. This is very difficult for a child that is sensitive to the lying issue to begin with. And this child admitted that he often got in trouble for lying BEFORE the cops lied to him. Then all the other discrepancies in the confession that were never addressed. What are the answers to those questions?

    And then it goes on from there. The question about the gun - was it really the murder weapon? Has that officially been determined? The fingerprint on the gun that is from unknown origins? Why is the fingerprint unknown? LE should be able to figure that one out fairly easily and there is no excuse for not doing so.

    The motive - and no way do I buy the 1,000 spanking BS. It appears there was no diary. From all accounts this boy had a fairly decent relationship with his dad. They went hunting, fishing, etc. So why did it all fall apart? I don't believe it was the new wife because she had been around for years before they got married according to some.

    And then there are the plain logistics - this double murder would have been very, very difficult for an 8-year old to accomplish. Maybe not impossible, but very difficult. I have puzzled over this aspect for many an evening and I'm just not seeing it happening. I would love to talk to the crime scene reinactor person!

    I'm really hoping the mom makes some headway in her appeal or that she files an appeal on behalf of her son. AND I want to know where the heck the GAL was during the plea hearing!!!!!! I call that a failure to perform the duties assigned by the court!

    Salem

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda7NJ View Post
    It only appears that way to a very select few of conspiracy theorists, IMO
    I'm sorry, but what's your point? I am not, nor others, a "select few of conspiracy theorists". My apologies if this sounds rude, but posters who are in sharing thoughts and opinions in this case deserve a lot more than condenscending responses like this.

    IMVHO.
    "I went to the bank and asked to borrow a cup of money. They said, "What for?". I said, "I'm going to buy some sugar".

  10. #10
    Count me in as one of your "conspiracy theorists".....I have seen way too many poor people thrown under the bus, just because they cannot afford fancy a** lawyers!!!


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    I agree with both of you. I believe the records will be sealed so that the prosecution can cover its arse. Taking this case back to the very beginning and the confession, things were screwed up. When the cops lied to the boy about someone seeing him, they put the boy in the position of no matter what he said, he would be lying. This is very difficult for a child that is sensitive to the lying issue to begin with. And this child admitted that he often got in trouble for lying BEFORE the cops lied to him. Then all the other discrepancies in the confession that were never addressed. What are the answers to those questions?

    And then it goes on from there. The question about the gun - was it really the murder weapon? Has that officially been determined? The fingerprint on the gun that is from unknown origins? Why is the fingerprint unknown? LE should be able to figure that one out fairly easily and there is no excuse for not doing so.

    The motive - and no way do I buy the 1,000 spanking BS. It appears there was no diary. From all accounts this boy had a fairly decent relationship with his dad. They went hunting, fishing, etc. So why did it all fall apart? I don't believe it was the new wife because she had been around for years before they got married according to some.

    And then there are the plain logistics - this double murder would have been very, very difficult for an 8-year old to accomplish. Maybe not impossible, but very difficult. I have puzzled over this aspect for many an evening and I'm just not seeing it happening. I would love to talk to the crime scene reinactor person!

    I'm really hoping the mom makes some headway in her appeal or that she files an appeal on behalf of her son. AND I want to know where the heck the GAL was during the plea hearing!!!!!! I call that a failure to perform the duties assigned by the court!

    Salem
    If I remember correctly, and I may be off (disclaimer just in case anyone has "issues" with my thoughts), there were only 2 that came up associated with the Chipmunk out of the ten shots taken. The fingerprints, not so much save for the ammo that was tested (the box) from the kitchen table. I am reaching from memory here and I do not have the time to go back to the links.

    Given the type of gun (one shot Chipmunk), the time, and the age of the child, this is where I have a very difficult time with the crime. I agree with you that the logistics of it all just do not make sense. This whole case does not make sense from Le to the plea deal that is sealed.

    There is more here and I do believe officials are very much aware of it. It may very possibly be more than a double homicide. It is about the victims regardless of what "some" may think here that I (we) argue. There is more to this terrible crime and I honestly think those involved legally know it as well.

    imo
    "I went to the bank and asked to borrow a cup of money. They said, "What for?". I said, "I'm going to buy some sugar".

  12. #12
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    Salem,
    The statement "not one thing KNOWN points away from this boy" is untrue. Blatenly untrue! For starters - we know from the boy's own confession that the gun was not where he said it was, that the gunshots are not consistent with what he said he did. We know there is an UNKNOWN fingerprint on the gun. This is only the tip of what we know.

    To me - these things we KNOW are enough to raise a reasonable doubt and to throw the child away before these questions are answered is CRUEL AND INHUMAN.

    We have seen (there are links in these threads) that several children have confessed to murders that were later solved with DNA showing the confessing child had nothing to do with the murder. One child gave an explicit description of putting grass in the victim's ear.

    WE KNOW THESE THINGS, and in my humble opinion, it is these things that have to be addressed before this plea deal can be settled.

    Salem |QUOTE]

    Confessions are not all about the defendant unburdening the whole truth. It is not uncommon for a defendant to confess to a part and be evasisve or untruthful about other parts to lesson their accountability. Or are you saying someone came in the home once he had left to summon the neighbor and they put the gun on the dog cage then? This boy said he let Nellie out of the dog cage.

    Where does it say that there is an unknown print on the gun? An unidentifiable print does not mean it belongs to another person. It can mean that they did not have good enough samples of the suspect's fingerprints in question and needed clearer ones. It may mean that not all 13 points needed were visable to validate who the print belonged to........

    imoo
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    I agree with both of you. I believe the records will be sealed so that the prosecution can cover its arse. Taking this case back to the very beginning and the confession, things were screwed up. When the cops lied to the boy about someone seeing him, they put the boy in the position of no matter what he said, he would be lying. This is very difficult for a child that is sensitive to the lying issue to begin with. And this child admitted that he often got in trouble for lying BEFORE the cops lied to him. Then all the other discrepancies in the confession that were never addressed. What are the answers to those questions?

    And then it goes on from there. The question about the gun - was it really the murder weapon? Has that officially been determined? The fingerprint on the gun that is from unknown origins? Why is the fingerprint unknown? LE should be able to figure that one out fairly easily and there is no excuse for not doing so.

    The motive - and no way do I buy the 1,000 spanking BS. It appears there was no diary. From all accounts this boy had a fairly decent relationship with his dad. They went hunting, fishing, etc. So why did it all fall apart? I don't believe it was the new wife because she had been around for years before they got married according to some.

    And then there are the plain logistics - this double murder would have been very, very difficult for an 8-year old to accomplish. Maybe not impossible, but very difficult. I have puzzled over this aspect for many an evening and I'm just not seeing it happening. I would love to talk to the crime scene reinactor person!

    I'm really hoping the mom makes some headway in her appeal or that she files an appeal on behalf of her son. AND I want to know where the heck the GAL was during the plea hearing!!!!!! I call that a failure to perform the duties assigned by the court!

    Salem
    If what is in the rest of the unrevealed evidence points away from the boy, then why in the world would his own attorneys, who have been in the boy's corner from day one, ever stand for that or even the boy for that matter?

    Yes, what happened to the crime scene reenactment guy for the defense that was going to prove the boy did not do this crime? Where was the discovery on those results? Judge Roca told the state and defense they both must turn over discovery when they received it.

    imo
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

  14. #14
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    Well, well, well,............I wonder just how stupid the St. Johns PD thinks the public is anyway?

    Wonder if the child was aware of this? Oh, yeah, I'm sure he was. He even wiped his fingerprints off the rifle.

    Sure, Tim and Vince couldn't take down this child.

    {shakes head}
    fran



    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5113310AA8b3Bd

    If this is what you're asking then the short of the answer is a resounding NO! Make no mistake, a .22 mag has more than enough potential to cause a lethal wound to a man, but as far as having the ability to drop an attacker in his tracks reliably and cosistently, the answer is no. Your better off shooting them in the leg and outrunning them then trying to kill them outright in most cases. As for the why; while a .22 mag does list similar statistics for energy, but it lacks several things to make it a good "self defense" round.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by fran View Post
    Well, well, well,............I wonder just how stupid the St. Johns PD thinks the public is anyway?

    Wonder if the child was aware of this? Oh, yeah, I'm sure he was. He even wiped his fingerprints off the rifle.

    Sure, Tim and Vince couldn't take down this child.

    {shakes head}
    fran



    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5113310AA8b3Bd



    If this is what you're asking then the short of the answer is a resounding NO! Make no mistake, a .22 mag has more than enough potential to cause a lethal wound to a man, but as far as having the ability to drop an attacker in his tracks reliably and consistently, the answer is no. Your better off shooting them in the leg and outrunning them then trying to kill them outright in most cases. As for the why; while a .22 mag does list similar statistics for energy, but it lacks several things to make it a good "self defense" round.
    .22 Magnum? The gun wasn't used in self defense and there were 10 shots fired. Not just one shot to drop an attacker in his tracks. Are you saying .22 bullets weren't lethal to both of these men?

    imo
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

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