View Poll Results: Why Have None of the Anthony's Been Charged w/Obstruction?? Can pick more than one...

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  • LE/SA Office does not think they did anything wrong

    14 5.65%
  • LE/SA Office does not have a strong enough evidence to make it stick

    69 27.82%
  • LE/SA Office does not want to go after them because of public sympathy

    60 24.19%
  • Just waiting for the right time for LA

    122 49.19%
  • Just waiting for the right time for GA

    68 27.42%
  • Just waiting for the right time for CA

    110 44.35%
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Thread: Updated POLL: Why No Obstruction Charges Yet...If Ever???

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripley007 View Post
    THANK YOU ZsaZsa! I have been ranting/raving and writting the SAME EXACT THING for like a year now. For George and Cindy to have drove the Pontiac back to their home with it smelling/reeking of Human Decomposition is a CRIME in my opinion! Tampering with a possible Crime Scene. Unfortunatly nobody in LE seems to recognize this OBVIOUS CRIME nor do many who post here. My repetitive posts re this situation get ignored and/or overlooked when to me, it seems so OBVIOUS that this in itself was a CRIME! It is the ONE thing i keep harping on. I will continue to do so, even if others don't see it as a BIG DEAL like I do. I try to imagine myself in the Anthony's shoes. I see myself getting arrested for removing a human decomp stinky car from it's resting site. Tampering with eveidence. WHY have G and C been given so much slack???????????????????????????? It's NOT LIKE they are America's Sweethearts, touching everyone with their pain. Quite the opposite, right?
    I agree...that it seems like a crime. However! These two (GA and CA) could not face the truth. That's how they operate--they reinvent things to make it the way they want it to be. So they needed for there to be a good reason for the smell...certainly he was relieved when he found no body. Think about how it would look for LE to jail these grandparents. They loved Caylee.
    Last edited by JBean; 02-19-2010 at 02:20 AM. Reason: removed reference

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by affinity View Post
    I agree...that it seems like a crime. However! These two (GA and CA) could not face the truth. That's how they operate--they reinvent things to make it the way they want it to be. So they needed for there to be a good reason for the smell...certainly he was relieved when he found no body. Think about how it would look for LE to jail these grandparents. They loved Caylee. LE didn't want to put the entire family in jail---that would make them look like Nazis.
    They most certainly should put them in jail if there is any way possible to do so. The Anthonys have obstructed and lied from the beginning and justice for Caylee requires them to be investigated imo. This family put themselves where they are, LE need not worry about how they seem as long as they do the right thing.

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  5. #103
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    I think that LE and SA don't want this case to be more of a circus than it already is. You know the defense would be on the airwaves immediately if the rest ofthe family was arrested. It would be far too prejudicial against Casey and she wouldn't gt a fair trial is what I am sure they would be whining about. Conway too. I think it is a case of biding time because they already have tons of evidence of obstruction and don't need to go chasing after them when the A's are broke and not going anywhere anytime soon. They will get theirs, for sure. The IRS will get them for their fraudation at some point, and death may even get them if they don't survive the trial. Casey is the big fish right now, and taking care of her first is the top priority. If this case was not such media fodder propogatd by the defense and the A's, the whole family would be in jail right now.

    It's like playing cards and you know you have a winning hand. It's better to hold onto thy winning hand until it's necessary for the win than put it out too early. It's better to letthe other players sweat it out for a much sweeter victory.

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  7. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripley007 View Post
    I need even more choices in order to vote in the poll.

    As I have stated many times before, I am baffled as to why GA wasn't arrested after driving the Sunbird home. The car smelled of HUMAN Decomp. I don't care whose decomp it was, GA KNEW that car was a CRIME SCENE for some victim. Therefore, he tampered with a crime scene by driving it back to his residence.
    I agree with you... and I go back to when he asked KC for a "tire wedge" and she opened the trunk then giving him the gas can. Didn't the trunk smell then? Wasn't this during the time frame of after Caylee was placed in the woods? There would have been a death smell in the car then. If the body was disposed of prior to GA asking about the gas can, there should have been an odor of decomposition in the trunk. After a body begins decomposing and breaking down (even after 1 day of being in an enclosed and very intensely hot trunk in the Florida sun) - there is a "very foul odor" that is very prominent and distinct. And GA would have noticed it then. He just isn't admitting it. That to me is why she didn't want to open the trunk for him. JMO. After days further, the odor became increasingly worse because of the stain on the carpet and coverboard... eventually she had to ditch the car. Then when GA picked the car up, he drove it home, KNOWING FULL WELL what the smell was... what did he do? Tried to air it out and clean the car. I'm SPEECHLESS that after all that has been revealed... the A's haven't been charged.

    JEFF ASHTON AND LINDA DRANE-BURDICK ARE MY HEROES!!

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  9. #105
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    I think I understand all of the reasons that LE has not charged the Anthony's. Yes, it does make sense to focus on the "bigger fish" and all of that. But, here's what concerns me...........

    1. Fast forward to the trial. We all know that Cindy and George will not be truthful on the stand. They may even be called as hostile witnesses. So the SA will ask questions, they will tap dance and then the tapes of previous sworn testimony will be shown to provide clarity. But, here's the thing,

    Wouldn't it be even STRONGER if the SA could say, "isn't it true Mrs./Mr. Anthony that you have been convicted of lying to LE, or obstruction, or tampering or a host of other things? Wouldn't that remove all doubt from a jurors mind that they have lied to protect Casey?

    2. More than anything it's the message it sends that grinds me the most. The message is:

    ....Do a horrible crime
    ....Don't report it
    ....Lie and lie and lie
    ....Refuse to speak to LE
    ....Depend on your family to do the same
    ...Family cashes in...No more job, no more money problems. And hey, I feel famous to boot

    I look at the Cummings case. I look at Baby Gabriel. And I have to ask myself....."Did these people learn from the Anthony's?" And if they did, who else will do the same? I say nip it in the bud. Let the message ring loud and true...............

    Obstuct justice at your peril. We may not be able to convict you, but we will make you fear and sweat and spend all of your blood money to defend yourself!!

    My own opinion. Thanks for listening. Be well

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  11. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horace Finklestein View Post
    They most certainly should put them in jail if there is any way possible to do so. The Anthonys have obstructed and lied from the beginning and justice for Caylee requires them to be investigated imo. This family put themselves where they are, LE need not worry about how they seem as long as they do the right thing.
    Amen. They have NOT been a voice for this baby and have done everything under the sun to protect her murderer. It's sad to see all of them on court days. Who sits on Caylee's side? LE.
    Don't murder in Kentucky! My thread here.

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  13. #107
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    A little OT but I wonder how many reports the IRS has received on them too.

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  15. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by marspiter View Post
    A little OT but I wonder how many reports the IRS has received on them too.
    We can hope for a lot!!
    Don't murder in Kentucky! My thread here.

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthr...n+lisa+tackett



    A proud happy people, we were here long before the white man came. Stalking along meadow paths, we were used to hunting every day. The rivers gave us fish, The woods even gave us deer and other wild game. Here upon this land, we built our homes, and raised our families. Love was free and natural, as we moved swiftly among the trees. This was a country, It was here that we lived for centuries. Oh I want peace with my soul again. Oh I, I want peace with my soul again. Everyday was new love,. Our village was filled with smiling faces.

    All credit from the quote above, goes to Tom Bee, and XIT! The first Rock Native American band.

    Thank you Tom!!

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  17. #109
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    I have to be devil's advocate--because I understand (on some level!) how people don't want to know the truth. The truth in this case was wayyy more than they could take. So George knew that the smell was awful, but when he opened the trunk--whew! he knew that no one was there. What a relief! Then he probably thinks something along the lines of GAWD did a cat crawl up in the wheel well and die?? (I know that doesn't sound feasible but we are talking about someone who wanted desperately to be able to think about a live Caylee, not a dead Caylee). I did have a snake crawl up into my car when I lived in Fla. It died under my back seat--believe me it was horrible and I had no idea what it was. If, during that time, I also had a missing daughter/granddaughter I am NOT so sure that my mind would automatically "know" the smell had been one of them. (I know it crossed GA's mind, he admitted that--but he didn't want to think it and replaced it with whatever bullcrap he could accept).

    Merge all this thinking with the Anthony's innate feelings of superiority (they do think all the authorities in Fla aren't very smart, or aren't capable) and we get the hair brush thing. BECAUSE these hapless grandparents wanted a different outcome from the truth. Is what they did wrong? Yes. Is it criminal? Yes...but I bet LE thinks oh these poor old wierdos..they are so distraught, they are incapable of handling this.

    In an early interview the FBI tries to tell CA, they try to tell GA..but they have probably seen plenty of this type of delusion in their jobs. They are sensitive to it. I bet someone has told the A's stay out of all of this from here on out, or the sympathy will be completely put aside and they could get charged. Perhaps that is why they have stopped pounding their chests to say that SODDI.
    Last edited by affinity; 02-18-2010 at 04:05 PM.

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  19. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripley007 View Post
    THANK YOU ZsaZsa! I have been ranting/raving and writting the SAME EXACT THING for like a year now. For George and Cindy to have drove the Pontiac back to their home with it smelling/reeking of Human Decomposition is a CRIME in my opinion! Tampering with a possible Crime Scene. Unfortunatly nobody in LE seems to recognize this OBVIOUS CRIME nor do many who post here. My repetitive posts re this situation get ignored and/or overlooked when to me, it seems so OBVIOUS that this in itself was a CRIME! It is the ONE thing i keep harping on. I will continue to do so, even if others don't see it as a BIG DEAL like I do. I try to imagine myself in the Anthony's shoes. I see myself getting arrested for removing a human decomp stinky car from it's resting site. Tampering with eveidence. WHY have G and C been given so much slack???????????????????????????? It's NOT LIKE they are America's Sweethearts, touching everyone with their pain. Quite the opposite, right?
    I suppose in that case, the tow yard guy Sb should be arrested too. Oh also Le for not securing this crime scene or even reporting on it, basically ignoring it for several hours or not taking it seriously.

    Here is my take: If the car really smelled like Human Decomp then all of those things would have happened. Sb would have called police, Ga would have called police, the police would have secured the car, Ym would have secured the car and searched right then and there, it would have been documented in reports, they would have confronted Kc about it during her interogation out at Universal. I mean none of those things happened. There is a reason for that. That reason in my opinion is that it just didnt smell bad enough to make people think it was human decomp. My opinion only

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  21. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    I suppose in that case, the tow yard guy Sb should be arrested too. Oh also Le for not securing this crime scene or even reporting on it, basically ignoring it for several hours or not taking it seriously.

    Here is my take: If the car really smelled like Human Decomp then all of those things would have happened. Sb would have called police, Ga would have called police, the police would have secured the car, Ym would have secured the car and searched right then and there, it would have been documented in reports, they would have confronted Kc about it during her interogation out at Universal. I mean none of those things happened. There is a reason for that. That reason in my opinion is that it just didnt smell bad enough to make people think it was human decomp. My opinion only
    The tow yard guy and the Police were not trying to cover up a crime.
    All the people who actually smelled that car stated that it smelt like human decomposition. How much clearer do you expect them to be?
    Last edited by ZsaZsa; 02-18-2010 at 04:05 PM.

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  23. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by affinity View Post
    I have to be devil's advocate--because I understand (on some level!) how people don't want to know the truth. The truth in this case was wayyy more than they could take. So George knew that the smell was awful, but when he opened the trunk--whew! he knew that no one was there. What a relief! Then he probably thinks some weird thing like GAWD did a cat crawl up in the wheel well and die?? (I know that doesn't sound feasible but we are talking about someone who wanted desperately to be able to think about a live Caylee, not a dead Caylee). I did have a snake crawl up into my car when I lived in Fla. It died under my back seat--believe me it was horrible and I had no idea what it was. If during that time I also had a missing daughter/granddaughter I am NOT so sure that my mind would automatically "know" it was one of them. (I know it crossed his mind, he admitted that--but he didn't want to think it and replaced it with whatever bullcrap he could accept).

    Merge all this thinking with the Anthony's innate feelings of superiority (they do think all the authorities in Fla aren't very smart, or aren't capable) and we get the hair brush thing. BECAUSE these hapless grandparents wanted a different outcome from the truth. Is what they did wrong? Yes. Is it criminal? Yes...but I bet LE thinks oh these poor old wierdos..they are so distraught they are incapable of handling this.

    In an early interview the FBI tries to tell CA, they try to tell GA..but they have probably seen plenty of this type of delusion in their jobs. They are sensitive to it. I bet someone has told the A's stay out of all of this from here on out, or the sympathy will be completely put aside and they could get charged. Perhaps that is why they have stopped pounding their chests to say that SOGDDI.
    I've kind of struggled with that too. My conclusion has been that there has been ample time for them to come to their senses. I agree that in the beginning of this sordid affair, it made sense for them to be in denial and reach for anything they could. However, now, going on 2 years later, and knowing all of the lies and nonsense, specifically that there was no nanny and she never told anyone where she 'dropped caylee off'...I can't be forgiving about them not 'getting real' about it. They should have perspective by now and be able to see the truth.

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  25. #113
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    I'm thinking and hoping they are waiting until KC has been tried and convicted so that they can absolutely once and for all lock in the obstruction and lies in order to get the longest sentences possible.
    A grandchild fills a space in your heart that you never knew was empty....

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  27. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    I suppose in that case, the tow yard guy Sb should be arrested too. Oh also Le for not securing this crime scene or even reporting on it, basically ignoring it for several hours or not taking it seriously.

    Here is my take: If the car really smelled like Human Decomp then all of those things would have happened. Sb would have called police, Ga would have called police, the police would have secured the car, Ym would have secured the car and searched right then and there, it would have been documented in reports, they would have confronted Kc about it during her interogation out at Universal. I mean none of those things happened. There is a reason for that. That reason in my opinion is that it just didnt smell bad enough to make people think it was human decomp. My opinion only
    The tow guy and GA both made statements as to it smelling like decomp. In fact GA gave statements under oath to LE that he know what that smell was. I'm not entirely certain why it took so long for the car to be secured into custody. However it should be noted that GA did in fact make comments under oath as to the smell and he did not call police. In fact the car was cleaned after the A's got it back from the tow yard....but yet GA made statements under oath that he knew that smell.

    So to speculate that GA would have called police. Well GA already answered that for us. He knew the smell and didn't report it.

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  29. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by affinity View Post
    Then he probably thinks something along the lines of GAWD did a cat crawl up in the wheel well and die?? (I know that doesn't sound feasible but we are talking about someone who wanted desperately to be able to think about a live Caylee, not a dead Caylee). I did have a snake crawl up into my car when I lived in Fla. It died under my back seat--believe me it was horrible and I had no idea what it was.
    O/T
    OMG what would you have done if that snake crawled out while you were driving on interstate. I would have had a heart attacked, wrecked while diving out of car. LOL

    I have wondered myself why hasn't anything ever been done to CA and GA for all the untruths they have spoken of. I have wondered if LE was waiting till after the trial to see how much more lying is going to happen. No-one can forget CA original 911 call those words "smells like a dead body in the damn car". She knew who's body. I feel like GA knew who's body when he was questioned with LE and he "threw up" in hall. So sad they want stand up for justice for their grand-daughter. Might have even made it better for Casey in the long run.
    Last edited by QueenD; 02-18-2010 at 04:23 PM. Reason: added info

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  31. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by affinity View Post
    I have to be devil's advocate--because I understand (on some level!) how people don't want to know the truth. The truth in this case was wayyy more than they could take. So George knew that the smell was awful, but when he opened the trunk--whew! he knew that no one was there. What a relief! Then he probably thinks something along the lines of GAWD did a cat crawl up in the wheel well and die?? (I know that doesn't sound feasible but we are talking about someone who wanted desperately to be able to think about a live Caylee, not a dead Caylee). I did have a snake crawl up into my car when I lived in Fla. It died under my back seat--believe me it was horrible and I had no idea what it was. If, during that time, I also had a missing daughter/granddaughter I am NOT so sure that my mind would automatically "know" the smell had been one of them. (I know it crossed GA's mind, he admitted that--but he didn't want to think it and replaced it with whatever bullcrap he could accept).

    Merge all this thinking with the Anthony's innate feelings of superiority (they do think all the authorities in Fla aren't very smart, or aren't capable) and we get the hair brush thing. BECAUSE these hapless grandparents wanted a different outcome from the truth. Is what they did wrong? Yes. Is it criminal? Yes...but I bet LE thinks oh these poor old wierdos..they are so distraught, they are incapable of handling this.

    In an early interview the FBI tries to tell CA, they try to tell GA..but they have probably seen plenty of this type of delusion in their jobs. They are sensitive to it. I bet someone has told the A's stay out of all of this from here on out, or the sympathy will be completely put aside and they could get charged. Perhaps that is why they have stopped pounding their chests to say that SODDI.
    Sorry, I don't agree that handing investigators a hair brush that could provide confusing findings when your grandchild is missing when the correct brush might be a help in the investigation is a result of a hapless moment. She even laughed about it afterwards and said she thought of giving them the dogs hairbrush. Confused, stressed, anxious grandparents who are desperate for their grandchild to be found simply do not think or act that way

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  33. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by affinity View Post
    I have to be devil's advocate--because I understand (on some level!) how people don't want to know the truth. The truth in this case was wayyy more than they could take. So George knew that the smell was awful, but when he opened the trunk--whew! he knew that no one was there. What a relief! Then he probably thinks something along the lines of GAWD did a cat crawl up in the wheel well and die?? (I know that doesn't sound feasible but we are talking about someone who wanted desperately to be able to think about a live Caylee, not a dead Caylee). I did have a snake crawl up into my car when I lived in Fla. It died under my back seat--believe me it was horrible and I had no idea what it was. If, during that time, I also had a missing daughter/granddaughter I am NOT so sure that my mind would automatically "know" the smell had been one of them. (I know it crossed GA's mind, he admitted that--but he didn't want to think it and replaced it with whatever bullcrap he could accept).

    Merge all this thinking with the Anthony's innate feelings of superiority (they do think all the authorities in Fla aren't very smart, or aren't capable) and we get the hair brush thing. BECAUSE these hapless grandparents wanted a different outcome from the truth. Is what they did wrong? Yes. Is it criminal? Yes...but I bet LE thinks oh these poor old wierdos..they are so distraught, they are incapable of handling this.

    In an early interview the FBI tries to tell CA, they try to tell GA..but they have probably seen plenty of this type of delusion in their jobs. They are sensitive to it. I bet someone has told the A's stay out of all of this from here on out, or the sympathy will be completely put aside and they could get charged. Perhaps that is why they have stopped pounding their chests to say that SODDI.
    I bet the Police don't see too many 'poor old weirdos' who trademark and copyright their murdered grand daughter's name so as to exploit it financially either... They did that pretty quickly, so they were not too distraught to appreciate the financial prospects, as we have seen, of selling photos and interviews.
    Not sure how anyone could feel sympathy for people who cash in their grand daughters image and now are trying to raise more cash by this method to fund the defense of the murderer.

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  35. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    I suppose in that case, the tow yard guy Sb should be arrested too. Oh also Le for not securing this crime scene or even reporting on it, basically ignoring it for several hours or not taking it seriously.

    Here is my take: If the car really smelled like Human Decomp then all of those things would have happened. Sb would have called police, Ga would have called police, the police would have secured the car, Ym would have secured the car and searched right then and there, it would have been documented in reports, they would have confronted Kc about it during her interogation out at Universal. I mean none of those things happened. There is a reason for that. That reason in my opinion is that it just didnt smell bad enough to make people think it was human decomp. My opinion only
    The tow yard guy could only smell the car from the outside, the car was locked and he had no key. We have already heard from several people that the smell was completely horrible INSIDE the car......in other words when George opened the car door. That puts the tow yard guy in the clear for not reporting the smell.

    When LE reported to the Anthony house that night they were there because of a missing 2 year old child. That was their top priority. The mother of the missing girl was not co-operating and took LE on a wild goose chase to fake job, fake nanny apartments, etc. It took a while to begin to unravel the web of lies and determine that the child was not just missing, that mom more than likely had something to do with it. Now, should LE have secured the car sooner than they did......yes, they probably should have. However, I think they get a pass as well since they were working for HOURS trying to get the truth out of a mother that clearly didn't give a crap that no one could find her daughter.

    George and Cindy BOTH knew clearly what that smell was. George and Cindy BOTH knew that neither of them had talked to or seen Caylee in 31 days. George and Cindy BOTH knew at that point that everything Casey had told them during those 31 days had to have been lies, after all, she wasn't out of town with the nanny and Caylee for work......not with the car having been towed IN TOWN a few days before they found out. George and Cindy BOTH decided to clean out the car instead of alert police that someone had died and had been in Casey's car. George and Cindy do NOT get a pass on this, not from me anyway.
    Last edited by TorisMom003; 02-18-2010 at 04:45 PM.

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  37. #119
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    The tow yard guy did call Police as soon as he heard about Caylee being missing, when he connected her with GA and remembered the smell in the trunk and the trash, it did not all come together for him until that point.

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  39. #120
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    I am sure that LE wants the testimony, of at least George, and are waiting to see how truthful he will be on the stand. I have no doubt that if he perjures himself, he will be charged. I wish LE would charge them with the other crimes, like tampering with evidence, making false statements, etc...Maybe, just maybe, they are waiting until after the trial. I do not believe, that just because your daughter is being charged with a serious crime, that the family should be able to lie, deceive and hide evidence, in an attempt to get the criminal off.

    If the Anthony's get away with their crimes, when is the next family going to try the same to protect their loved one (and won't they expect to get away with it too) ?

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  41. #121
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    Ahh, NTS, you assume these are logical, rational people. Have you not seen them in the media, police videos, etc? Their earth logic does NOT match our earth logic one bit. In fact, I think their logic is from a whole other planet. They covered for Casey from the getgo and I think only now are starting to realize they could get into big trouble for it. They are where Casey got her higher-than-the-law attitude from.

    They know what they did, and eventually, they will pay for it.

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  43. #122
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    Doesn't Casey have to be convicted of the crime before they can hold anyone accountable for covering up said crime?
    What I'm saying is, what if Casey was found not guilty ( I totally believe she will be found guilty but look at OJ.) and they had already arrested GA and CA for evidence tampering or whatever. CA and GA could go back and sue LE for arresting them without knowing a crime had been commited, they could say they were simply cleaning a stinky car, and were wrongly arrested.
    JMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by butterfly1978 View Post
    Doesn't Casey have to be convicted of the crime before they can hold anyone accountable for covering up said crime?
    What I'm saying is, what if Casey was found not guilty ( I totally believe she will be found guilty but look at OJ.) and they had already arrested GA and CA for evidence tampering or whatever. CA and GA could go back and sue LE for arresting them without knowing a crime had been commited, they could say they were simply cleaning a stinky car, and were wrongly arrested.
    JMO
    What a neat question! I would guess that they could still be charged, though. Even if, let's say, Casey didn't do it, they could still have destroyed evidence that could have led LE to the person who did. So my totally uneducated guess would be that they should still (even in that outlandish scenario) be held accountable. Dunno, ya think?
    The heart of the pure can see, but my eyes have never seen the unicorn . . .

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  47. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    I suppose in that case, the tow yard guy Sb should be arrested too. Oh also Le for not securing this crime scene or even reporting on it, basically ignoring it for several hours or not taking it seriously.

    Here is my take: If the car really smelled like Human Decomp then all of those things would have happened. Sb would have called police, Ga would have called police, the police would have secured the car, Ym would have secured the car and searched right then and there, it would have been documented in reports, they would have confronted Kc about it during her interogation out at Universal. I mean none of those things happened. There is a reason for that. That reason in my opinion is that it just didnt smell bad enough to make people think it was human decomp. My opinion only
    All the misdirection in the world, NTS, won't absolve GA from what he did...

    JMHO

    ETA: "in the world" for emphasis!
    Last edited by RR0004; 02-19-2010 at 05:50 PM.

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  49. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterfly1978 View Post
    Doesn't Casey have to be convicted of the crime before they can hold anyone accountable for covering up said crime?
    What I'm saying is, what if Casey was found not guilty ( I totally believe she will be found guilty but look at OJ.) and they had already arrested GA and CA for evidence tampering or whatever. CA and GA could go back and sue LE for arresting them without knowing a crime had been commited, they could say they were simply cleaning a stinky car, and were wrongly arrested.
    JMO
    ...accessory after the fact? They would need to have proof I assume.

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