782 users online (71 members and 711 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 34
  1. #1

    Not Waking Burke

    Trish brings up a very compelling fact that makes sense, she says:

    "There is only one reason. There was no need to wake up Burke because Patsy knew. And this one fact leads me to believe that John knew too. If Patsy was the only one who knew why in the world wouldn’t John, the big take charge CEO, run upstairs, grab Burke and say, “What did you hear?”

    I agree with this, and is further evidence IMO that John was in fact part of the coverup.


    The FACT that neither parent questioned Burke but invited every living soul they knew into their home for support, and sent Burke away, how did they not know the intruder was perhaps hiding somewhere in that house? The first NORMAL reaction would have been to search for JonBenet, search the house in case the intruder was still present. I could understand the need to get Burke OUT of the house, but without questioning him? How did the Ramsey’s know if the intruder may have tried to take Burke first or if perhaps Burke heard this intruder in the home?

    It’s strange after so many years discussing this case, some things just hit you like a TON of bricks. I realized that the Ramsey’s did this but didn’t tie in the fact that this is FURTHER proof that ties John Ramsey into the crime and cover up a lot earlier than I expected. Even if John suspected Patsy wrote that note but didn’t know for certain, he would have questioned Burke. He didn’t.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    The Wild West
    Posts
    1,911
    Quote Originally Posted by Nedthan Johns
    Even if John suspected Patsy wrote that note but didn’t know for certain, he would have questioned Burke. He didn’t.
    And not only did he not bother to question the only other person in the home, he snapped at the poor kid - we're not talking to you! - (allegedly ).

    Even if they did decide to just call the cops without searching the house, which actually I could believe in those circumstances - you find a ransom note, you panic, you pick up the phone, being careful to tell them of the note's warnings, of course - however, you don't then invite in the brunch group, openly defying the note and risking your daughter's life, and you don't verbally blast your only other kid back to his room when he could HELP.... uh, I mean let him sleep and not pester him with silly questions like "did you see an intruder?"
    The intruder is innocent! JMO

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,199
    Also hinky is the fact that Burke walked right past LE and the Rs' friends on his way out the door to go to the Whites' without asking what was going on. His not asking questions or even appearing bewildered tells me he didn't have to ask what was going on, because he already knew.

    Not only did John and Patsy not wake Burke to make sure he was okay and ask him questions (Do you know where JonBenet is? Did you see or hear anything odd during the night? etc.) but they had a fit when Burke was later questioned by a police officer at the Whites'. Also, much later, when Burke was being interviewed by the police psychologist, Patsy sat in the waiting area, weeping hysterically. She must have been scared to death he was going to spill the beans, or at least say something incriminating.

    imo

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Mid-West
    Posts
    3,868
    Well, not only did John NOT question Burke, and let him out of his sight....this was done with the 'suspicious' vehicle in the alley, the one John observed and forgot to tell the police immediately!

    Oh wait, John said he watched it a few minutes and decided it was safe, since no activity was seen in that time. (Kidnappers can't hide in a van you know, they are pretty stupid and stand outside with a gun or something.)

    John wasn't worried even though the note said the kidnappers were watching him so close John had better not talk to a stray dog. Considering all the people invited into the home that morning...what made John think Burke was safe? Even with an adult with him? The kidnappers were a group.
    -
    My opinion and nothing but my opinion.

    Tor:Con Index link below. Will show you the probability of a tornado happening in your area.
    http://www.weather.com/news/tornado-torcon-index

    FEMA's link for Emergency Supplies list below or what you need to survive for three days in case help is not immediately available to you.
    http://www.ready.gov/document/family-supply-list

    You can also purchase a weather radio which will inform you of severe weather even if your electricity goes out. Runs on batteries of course.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    685
    [QUOTE=Ivy]Also hinky is the fact that Burke walked right past LE and the Rs' friends on his way out the door to go to the Whites' without asking what was going on. His not asking questions or even appearing bewildered tells me he didn't have to ask what was going on, because he already knew.

    Not only did John and Patsy not wake Burke to make sure he was okay and ask him questions (Do you know where JonBenet is? Did you see or hear anything odd during the night? etc.) but they had a fit when Burke was later questioned by a police officer at the Whites'. Also, much later, when Burke was being interviewed by the police psychologist, Patsy sat in the waiting area, weeping hysterically. She must have been scared to death he was going to spill the beans, or at least say something incriminating.

    imo[/QUOTE

    If Burke heard or suspected anything, he wouldn't have just gone back to bed and gone to sleep.....he was checked, that's it. The focus and panic was on the abduction of JonBenet--at that point in time, the Ramseys didn't have time to think logically--just react. He was told JonBenet was missing....it was wise to get him out of the house asap, to minimize any trauma. Burke was just a little kid----he would have spilled the beans at the White's if he knew anything at all. He was questioned for hours by social services---he was at the Stine's when there was 24/7 coverage. A little kid like that would not be able to manage any kind of coverup. I don't believe the Ramseys had a fit when he was questioned at the White's---however, under the law a parent should have been present. I think Burke was spared a lot of the horror that day and for years afterwards.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    741
    [QUOTE=Maikai]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy
    Also hinky is the fact that Burke walked right past LE and the Rs' friends on his way out the door to go to the Whites' without asking what was going on. His not asking questions or even appearing bewildered tells me he didn't have to ask what was going on, because he already knew.

    Not only did John and Patsy not wake Burke to make sure he was okay and ask him questions (Do you know where JonBenet is? Did you see or hear anything odd during the night? etc.) but they had a fit when Burke was later questioned by a police officer at the Whites'. Also, much later, when Burke was being interviewed by the police psychologist, Patsy sat in the waiting area, weeping hysterically. She must have been scared to death he was going to spill the beans, or at least say something incriminating.

    imo[/QUOTE


    If Burke heard or suspected anything, he wouldn't have just gone back to bed and gone to sleep.....he was checked, that's it. The focus and panic was on the abduction of JonBenet--at that point in time, the Ramseys didn't have time to think logically--just react. He was told JonBenet was missing....it was wise to get him out of the house asap, to minimize any trauma. Burke was just a little kid----he would have spilled the beans at the White's if he knew anything at all. He was questioned for hours by social services---he was at the Stine's when there was 24/7 coverage. A little kid like that would not be able to manage any kind of coverup. I don't believe the Ramseys had a fit when he was questioned at the White's---however, under the law a parent should have been present. I think Burke was spared a lot of the horror that day and for years afterwards.
    It's amazing how the Ramseys couldn't think "logically" but were able to do so and retain lawyers for themselves AND extended family members. That required some logical thinking. They also seemed to think logically when making arrangements to skip town...oops, I meant to relocate to Atlanta to bury JonBenet. Unfortunately, they refused to return and then they complained that the police weren't calling THEM. I guess they didn't think logically enough to realize that THEY could actually call the police themselves and find out what was going on in the murder investigation

    24/7 coverage at the Stines? Coverage by whom? The Stines? What about immediately after the murder? When they "really believed" there was some "foreign faction" group out to get them?

    As far as Burke, he was told JB was missing. Well of course he was. When he was removed from the house, she wasn't "found" yet.

    So you don't find it ODD that a little boy saw all this commotion in his house, didn't ask a million questions and just asked for his Nintendo? I don't know a single child, male or female that wouldn't be asking questions and refusing to leave the house without a struggle with so much going on and his sister missing.

    Burke was not only NOT spared any anguish, he has received a whole lot more due to his own parents behavior and lies.

    Maikai, could you please quote the "law" as it pertains to questioning a child of 9 during a murder investigation? This has been talked about for years and I am not so sure it is illegal to ask a child questions without their parents. If it is, please show us. If it was, why haven't the Ramseys sued the BPD under that broken law? They have sued everyone else in Burke's name, why not them as well if the law was broken?
    This is my opinion only
    This post may not be copied to any other forum

    God Bless America

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    484
    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai
    If Burke heard or suspected anything, he wouldn't have just gone back to bed and gone to sleep.....he was checked, that's it.
    I disagree. A child learns behaviors from its parents, and Burke had much to learn from his. Both Patsy and John have gone on the record as saying that "just (going) back to bed and (going) to sleep" are exactly the things they have done. You can see this in the stories they've told in DOI and elsewhere. Patsy has explicitly said, when John would wake up in the middle of the night and go into his office to cry (and this was before JonBenet was murdered), Patsy would hear him, but she would refuse to get up and find out what the problem was, or even attempt to comfort her husband when he was obviously in pain.

    I will say that again. Patsy herself has said she would hear her husband crying in the middle of the night, and instead of going to him to even try and comfort him, she would pretend to be asleep. John then went on, as the NE transcripts illustrate, to demonstrate that he was fooled by Patsy. He went on the record to say that he believed Patsy was a sound sleeper, and that he managed to avoid waking her up when he was crying in the middle of the night.

    I will go out on a limb and say this. Since Patsy could hear John crying in the middle of the night, and yet she refused to get up and acknowledge what she heard, Burke may have also been hearing his own father crying in the middle of the night, and learned from his mother to stay in bed when he heard someone crying or upset. Patsy has taught her son a lesson: when you are an earwitness to a problem, the best thing to do is pretend you did not hear it.
    "That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    514
    It is completely illogical to think that were this a TRUE kidnapping and a TRUE ransom note that Patsy and John found that morning, that they wouldn't wake Burke promptly!! Perhaps he heard something or saw something during the night. You would be obsessed at this point of hoping that he DID. Of hoping for ANY clue, ANY sign of her or who took her or what happened.

    But not waking Burke falls right into line with alot of other logical things they did "not" do. They did not search their house thoroughly. They did not run outside (this is so important) searching everywhere on their property. They did not RUN to their neighbors begging for someone to tell them any information of anything they may have seen or heard during the night.

    They simply sat around and cried and wrung their hands. They even ignored the 'note'. That note was the biggest link to their daughter and because it was THREE pages long it would have taken alot of time to scrutinize looking for clues of WHO might have her.

    The decision to shuffle Burke off and away from them and their protection (not to mention police protection in their home and NOT at the White's...)
    is one of the biggest clues that they KNEW what happened to JonBenet.

    The fact that they were compelled to LIE about Burke being awake that morning (until caught on the 911 tape) - begs the question of WHY the need to lie about HIM? Because they were building on other lies prepared about HIM? They knew he was not asleep that morning. That was why there was no need to "wake" him. And by John's tone of voice (angry) at Burke on the 911 tape - it seems to be that they are distancing Burke away from this crime and that they are very unhappy with him.
    I think THAT may be why they shuffled him out of the house that morning in part. Too painful.....
    This post is my opinion.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,795
    I wonder why the police didn't "wake" him and question him.

  10. #10

    Tipper

    I don't think it was too long after Detective French arrived that Flet White and JR woke Burke and had him leave the house. But yes, another would of, could of, should of on behalf of the Boulder police department. NO ONE should have been allowed to leave that house


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    The Wild West
    Posts
    1,911
    Quote Originally Posted by Nedthan Johns
    I don't think it was too long after Detective French arrived that Flet White and JR woke Burke and had him leave the house. But yes, another would of, could of, should of on behalf of the Boulder police department. NO ONE should have been allowed to leave that house
    Right, Ned, and excellent question, Tipper. Between the incompetent police work the morning of the 26th and the corrupt and incompetent DA's office from then on, Boulder law enforcement really screwed justice in this case.
    The intruder is innocent! JMO

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    685
    Quote Originally Posted by Barbara
    It's amazing how the Ramseys couldn't think "logically" but were able to do so and retain lawyers for themselves AND extended family members. That required some logical thinking. They also seemed to think logically when making arrangements to skip town...oops, I meant to relocate to Atlanta to bury JonBenet. Unfortunately, they refused to return and then they complained that the police weren't calling THEM. I guess they didn't think logically enough to realize that THEY could actually call the police themselves and find out what was going on in the murder investigation

    24/7 coverage at the Stines? Coverage by whom? The Stines? What about immediately after the murder? When they "really believed" there was some "foreign faction" group out to get them?

    As far as Burke, he was told JB was missing. Well of course he was. When he was removed from the house, she wasn't "found" yet.

    So you don't find it ODD that a little boy saw all this commotion in his house, didn't ask a million questions and just asked for his Nintendo? I don't know a single child, male or female that wouldn't be asking questions and refusing to leave the house without a struggle with so much going on and his sister missing.

    Burke was not only NOT spared any anguish, he has received a whole lot more due to his own parents behavior and lies.

    Maikai, could you please quote the "law" as it pertains to questioning a child of 9 during a murder investigation? This has been talked about for years and I am not so sure it is illegal to ask a child questions without their parents. If it is, please show us. If it was, why haven't the Ramseys sued the BPD under that broken law? They have sued everyone else in Burke's name, why not them as well if the law was broken?
    Barbara,

    Kids have rights.......they can be represented by an attorney, and the parents should be consulted before they're questioned---the Ramseys didn't make a big deal of the fact that he was questioned without their knowledge---and you'll notice leaky Thomas never said much about that--because there was nothing there. JR said he didn't fault the BPD that first day--there was a lot of commotion going on.

    Burke was a quiet kid---it sounds more like he was confused and not really comprehending what was going on, so remained quiet---not every kid is a jabbering pain in the *ss.

    The 24/7 coverage was by the BPD--they had someone posted at the Stines around the clock to "protect" the Ramseys. Again, leaky Thomas didn't have to say about the interactions then---because they weren't incriminating.

    We all know who and why the lawyers were retained in the beginning---who better to handle things when you can't. When JR made that telephone call to go to Atlanta, it was right after JBR was found---I think he was in shock, and not thinking clearly. JR has stated there were mistakes he made---on the other hand, once he found out he was being targeted as a suspect, he had no choice but to rely on the lawyers. He was not arrested--the BPD could have cooperated on the terms the lawyers set. It was a hopeless standoff from the start.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    685
    Quote Originally Posted by why_nutt
    I disagree. A child learns behaviors from its parents, and Burke had much to learn from his. Both Patsy and John have gone on the record as saying that "just (going) back to bed and (going) to sleep" are exactly the things they have done. You can see this in the stories they've told in DOI and elsewhere. Patsy has explicitly said, when John would wake up in the middle of the night and go into his office to cry (and this was before JonBenet was murdered), Patsy would hear him, but she would refuse to get up and find out what the problem was, or even attempt to comfort her husband when he was obviously in pain.
    JR preferred to be alone with his grief--nothing strange there---some people just don't want someone hovering over them. I find it hard to believe Patsy never tried to comfort him---I think she was just giving him space.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    35
    Even if we give the parents the benefit of the doubt and assume they thought that Burke would have voluntarily told them if he had heard something that night, that still leaves the possibility that Burke may have saw something unusual the day before, or the day before that. If he had seen a stranger approach JB one or two days before, should the parents assume that Burke understood the potential significance of that and would just blurt it out without being questioned? I don’t think so.

    I also have some questions about John’s movements prior to the arrival of the police. I recognize we all may react differently to a crisis, but I think I would have been very concerned for the immediate safety of what was left of my family after reading that ransom note found in my house. I don’t think I would have left Patsy or Burke out of my sight until the police arrived. Yet, John left Patsy on one floor of the house, Burke on another, while he went to yet another floor to get dressed. It doesn’t seem to me that he had any fear at all that this “foreign faction” was close by.
    My opinion only

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. Buddha
    Posts
    19,495
    Plain and simple.

    There is no way in hell any parent, after finding a note saying their daughter was kidnapped, would let their child leave the house without at least asking him if he heard anything in the night.

    In reality every single parent, who had nothing to hide, would have dashed up to Burke's room and woke him up and asked him questions.

    It is so incomprehensible to think that the only other person in the house was not asked if he heard anything.

    The only thing that makes sense is if the Ramseys didn't need to question Burke. They didn't need to question him because they knew.

    It's plain and simple.
    Help our Administrator Bessie
    Check out our Facebook page
    Follow me on Twitter

    Tricia Griffith
    triciastruecrimeradio@gmail.com
    6300 N. Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H # 214
    Park City UT
    84098






Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast