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  1. #1
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    The WS Legal Dream Team -- Case Summary

    WS enjoys the luxury of a veritable Dream Team of legal experts and opinion in various stages of research, education, training and, professional practice. I was wondering if all those with exposure to legal matters or who follow the law would summarize the case and offer their verdict, based on what we know?

    Prosecution -
    • Key items supporting Guilt?
    • Key challenges the Prosecution face?


    Defense -
    • Key items supporting Reasonable Doubt?
    • Key challenges the Defense face?


    Verdict -
    • Guilty [If so, what charge?]
    • Not Guilty [If so, accident, technicality, etc?]


    You do not need to be a current practising attorney to post or a professional or admit to being so. I'd just be interested in a summary of bullet points from anyone who wants to contribute, looking from both sides and then an opinion on verdict.
    Disclaimer: All posts are my own humble opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.



    Justice for Caylee

  2. #2
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    Okay, I'll start, although I'm not an attorney.

    By the time the prosecution gets to closing arguments, we'll hear the following:

    The manner of death, the location of poor Caylee clearly indicate that she didn't just wander away...somebody intentionally disposed of her body where they hoped she would never be found...where if it were not for Roy K., she might never have been found....why? The only reason to leave a child in that manner - discarded like trash and utterly alone - is to hide the evidence of the crime, to avoid getting caught. Nobody knew that Caylee was truly missing for 31 days except Casey Anthony - her mother and legal guardian. The person legally and morally responsible for ensuring her safety. But Casey A did not report her own child missing for 31 days, and even then only when she was cornered into doing so by concerned family members. Only Casey A had evidence of a human decompositional event in the trunk of her car. As you heard George A testify, Casey A was the last person seen with Caylee while she was alive. The trash and laundry bags used to dispose of Caylee came from the A home. A very limited number of people had access to these items. However, only one of those people had motive to rid themselves of the burden of caring for Caylee so they could live "the bella vida" - the good life. The life Caylee will never have. There is only one thing left to give Caylee and only twelve people on this Earth who can see it done. Casey can have her bella vida. Give Caylee her justice.

    The defense will counter:

    There is no question a crime occurred. More than a crime, a tragedy, an unspeakable evil. There is no question Caylee deserves justice. Out of everything you have heard in this trial these are the only questions with absolute answers. There are many questions the prosecution has not answered, because they can't answer them. For example, who is ZFG? This was not someone who came into being on July 15, 2008. Cindy A. testified that she had on many occasions heard Casey discuss ZFG. The prosecution states that because they haven't located this person, it means she doesn't exist. But they can't say with absolute certainty that she doesn't exist, or that the person who identified herself to Casey as ZFG doesn't actually exist by some other name. Is it so unthinkable to them that a criminal might use an alias? They claim no one else had motive to kill Caylee, but what motive did Casey have? They say it's because she wanted to go out and party, but come on, really?? Lots of young people like to go out to clubs and they don't kill their children. Nobody, not one person who knew Casey testified that she was anything other than a loving, doting, proud mother. There is no history - none - of Casey ever mistreating her daughter. She may have been immature, maybe even lazy, quite often less than truthful, but that does not make her a killer. The laundry bag found with the body is not unique to the A home, it is sold in stores nationwide. And what of the trashbags found in the home that supposedly match the ones found at the scene. Also sold nationwide. And whose to say that the killer didn't have access to the A home? Casey herself said ZFG had a key. Could the killer have actually been the one to leave the trash bags in the A home while leaving the body only a short distance away?? Unlikely, maybe, but impossible? No way! You heard the body farm expert testify that the results are "similar" to a decompositional event. You heard him refuse to say they are "certain" that it was in fact a "human" decompositional event. You may find Casey's conduct in this case strange, abnormal, even shameful. But whether or not you like or even if you hate Casey A, the same standard of proof still applies - beyond a reasonable doubt. The burden is not on Casey to prove her innocence. It's the prosecution's job to string together the crime, the victim, the method, the motive, and the evidence to find the killer. They can't say for sure how Caylee was killed, and they can't say for sure that Casey killed her. They can say they have a strong suspicion, but that is not proof. And that is not justice, for Casey, or Caylee.

    I'll refrain from saying I know what the verdict will be. I know what I hope it will be.

  3. #3
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    Sorry, if I shouldn't be posting on this thread because I don't have ANY legal smarts or theories. I just wanted to add that a friend of our's, wife, is in her third year of law school. They recently were all given a case to do something similiar to this as an assignment.
    They were each given a case and told whether they had to take the prosecution or defense position. Then they will present their cases for a final grade.
    Wouldn't it be fascinating to see this case done in one of that scenario. So this should be an interesting thread. I'm hoping there will be some who are of some legal background to get their take on this.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish_Eyes View Post
    Okay, I'll start, although I'm not an attorney.

    By the time the prosecution gets to closing arguments, we'll hear the following:

    The manner of death, the location of poor Caylee clearly indicate that she didn't just wander away...somebody intentionally disposed of her body where they hoped she would never be found...where if it were not for Roy K., she might never have been found....why? The only reason to leave a child in that manner - discarded like trash and utterly alone - is to hide the evidence of the crime, to avoid getting caught. Nobody knew that Caylee was truly missing for 31 days except Casey Anthony - her mother and legal guardian. The person legally and morally responsible for ensuring her safety. But Casey A did not report her own child missing for 31 days, and even then only when she was cornered into doing so by concerned family members. Only Casey A had evidence of a human decompositional event in the trunk of her car. As you heard George A testify, Casey A was the last person seen with Caylee while she was alive. The trash and laundry bags used to dispose of Caylee came from the A home. A very limited number of people had access to these items. However, only one of those people had motive to rid themselves of the burden of caring for Caylee so they could live "the bella vida" - the good life. The life Caylee will never have. There is only one thing left to give Caylee and only twelve people on this Earth who can see it done. Casey can have her bella vida. Give Caylee her justice.

    The defense will counter:

    There is no question a crime occurred. More than a crime, a tragedy, an unspeakable evil. There is no question Caylee deserves justice. Out of everything you have heard in this trial these are the only questions with absolute answers. There are many questions the prosecution has not answered, because they can't answer them. For example, who is ZFG? This was not someone who came into being on July 15, 2008. Cindy A. testified that she had on many occasions heard Casey discuss ZFG. The prosecution states that because they haven't located this person, it means she doesn't exist. But they can't say with absolute certainty that she doesn't exist, or that the person who identified herself to Casey as ZFG doesn't actually exist by some other name. Is it so unthinkable to them that a criminal might use an alias? They claim no one else had motive to kill Caylee, but what motive did Casey have? They say it's because she wanted to go out and party, but come on, really?? Lots of young people like to go out to clubs and they don't kill their children. Nobody, not one person who knew Casey testified that she was anything other than a loving, doting, proud mother. There is no history - none - of Casey ever mistreating her daughter. She may have been immature, maybe even lazy, quite often less than truthful, but that does not make her a killer. The laundry bag found with the body is not unique to the A home, it is sold in stores nationwide. And what of the trashbags found in the home that supposedly match the ones found at the scene. Also sold nationwide. And whose to say that the killer didn't have access to the A home? Casey herself said ZFG had a key. Could the killer have actually been the one to leave the trash bags in the A home while leaving the body only a short distance away?? Unlikely, maybe, but impossible? No way! You heard the body farm expert testify that the results are "similar" to a decompositional event. You heard him refuse to say they are "certain" that it was in fact a "human" decompositional event. You may find Casey's conduct in this case strange, abnormal, even shameful. But whether or not you like or even if you hate Casey A, the same standard of proof still applies - beyond a reasonable doubt. The burden is not on Casey to prove her innocence. It's the prosecution's job to string together the crime, the victim, the method, the motive, and the evidence to find the killer. They can't say for sure how Caylee was killed, and they can't say for sure that Casey killed her. They can say they have a strong suspicion, but that is not proof. And that is not justice, for Casey, or Caylee.

    I'll refrain from saying I know what the verdict will be. I know what I hope it will be.
    Respectfully, I am not an attorney, however, I wish to correct a "huge" error-
    KC never report her Caylee missing- her mother did--- KC only answered questions for the 911 operator when asked - KC never voluntarily did anything to help save Caylee - to report her missing- nor to assist in finding her. Never, has KC made a plea to the public, nor to the supposed kidnapper for Caylee's safe return. KC has shown no remorse, concern, nor mourning for her own child. Only after she is in jail, did she wish none of this had ever happened.
    Only when the gig is up, does KC then demand that Caylee have a proper funeral- neverthemind, that she has no money to pay for it. If she did have money to pay for it, where did the money come from?

    In addition, Cindy claims KC was a proud doting, loving mother- and her friends as well claim so- however, AL's roommate's girlfriend,
    alleged that KC left Caylee alone in AL's apt. with access to the balcony right there while she was in the bedroom with AL. Also, KC has left Caylee alone in the living room with men she barely knew, for them to entertain her, while she was in the bedroom with AL, as per a roommate.. And of course, let's not forget, that KC allowed Caylee to sleep in the same bed along with her and a lover RM, and on one particular night, during the night, KC got up and took Caylee and left her somewhere, and claimed she took her home and came back without her, while her mother claims KC never brought her home. Wher did she take her in the middle of the night and why? Caylee was in the way. There were time KC couldn't go to see the Italian ex-cop to have sex- because she couldn't take Caylee- Caylee was in the way- There were time KC couldn't stay at AL's- because Caylee was in the way- There were times KC couldn't go out with her friends- because Caylee was in the way. Caylee was an unwelcomed inconvenience when it came to KC and her men and friends- but a commodity when it came to looking good to her parents. Therefore, pictures and videos of KC lovingly interacting with Caylee are meaningless. How else could she appear in front of family, and friends.

    In conclusion- of course KC is going to appear as a loving, doting mom in front of her family and friends- she is known for acting out roles depending on who she is with at the time- the question is what kind of mother was she alone with Caylee? In this case, "The end justifies the means", meaning only that KC was apparently not a good mom, as it resulted in the death of her child in the end.
    Last edited by RevCrim; 03-12-2009 at 09:31 AM. Reason: To clarify certain points..

  5. #5
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    This is an interesting post. I do not foresee a jury of 12 agreeing on a not guilty verdict. I do however see 7 jury members agreeing that she is guilty and then having to prod the other 3 into a Guilty verdict.

    I firmly believe that KC killed Caylee b/c she was a hindrance to her. The meeting of AL threw her over the edge b/c he kept saying that he was moving to NYC. KC probably felt that if he saw her a totally free and single girl then he would stay.
    "She will be mutha of the year" Rick Anthony's response to Cindy

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracey276 View Post
    Sorry, if I shouldn't be posting on this thread because I don't have ANY legal smarts or theories. I just wanted to add that a friend of our's, wife, is in her third year of law school. They recently were all given a case to do something similiar to this as an assignment.
    They were each given a case and told whether they had to take the prosecution or defense position. Then they will present their cases for a final grade.
    Wouldn't it be fascinating to see this case done in one of that scenario. So this should be an interesting thread. I'm hoping there will be some who are of some legal background to get their take on this.
    That'd be so cool. Thanks. I am sure this case will become a key one that will be studied for years in schools. For the psychology, the circus and, the twists and turns.
    Disclaimer: All posts are my own humble opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.



    Justice for Caylee

  7. #7
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    I would play all the eerily quiet videos of Caylee where no one talks to her and show what kind of "mother" KC was when no one was around.

    BTW. There is no need for an attorney here. You've nailed it.

  8. #8
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    I don't think the prosecution will argue that it was just the wanting a free, fun lifestyle that drove KC to kill Caylee. I think they will acknowledge the testimony from several people noting the jealousy and hostility between KC and CA regarding Caylee and the fights that occured b/c of CA wanting custody. We all know the animosity KC had towards her mother and if she wasn't going to have Caylee, her mother sure as hell wasn't. After all, KC said herself that she is a "spiteful *****."

    Also, I agree that the defense could argue that ZFG was using an alias; however, if that was the case, her mother and sister would have to be in on it too considering KC said she's met them both. The people that KC says know ZFG (Jeff Hopkins, Juliette) cannot be found either and I doubt they are using aliases as well. There was also no listing for her in KC's cell phone, or history of calls, texts, and e-mails b/w her and any number or e-mail address that could possibly be a nanny's. If they also really believed a ZFG was out there, they would beg and plead for a sketch artist to draw up this woman based on KC's description. They don't want to b/c they know KC will give them the description of some random woman who will get questioned, turn out to be completely innocent, and have to go through what the REAL Zenaida Gonzales is currently going through.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by trixi491 View Post
    I don't think the prosecution will argue that it was just the wanting a free, fun lifestyle that drove KC to kill Caylee. I think they will acknowledge the testimony from several people noting the jealousy and hostility between KC and CA regarding Caylee and the fights that occured b/c of CA wanting custody. We all know the animosity KC had towards her mother and if she wasn't going to have Caylee, her mother sure as hell wasn't. After all, KC said herself that she is a "spiteful *****."

    Also, I agree that the defense could argue that ZFG was using an alias; however, if that was the case, her mother and sister would have to be in on it too considering KC said she's met them both. The people that KC says know ZFG (Jeff Hopkins, Juliette) cannot be found either and I doubt they are using aliases as well. There was also no listing for her in KC's cell phone, or history of calls, texts, and e-mails b/w her and any number or e-mail address that could possibly be a nanny's. If they also really believed a ZFG was out there, they would beg and plead for a sketch artist to draw up this woman based on KC's description. They don't want to b/c they know KC will give them the description of some random woman who will get questioned, turn out to be completely innocent, and have to go through what the REAL Zenaida Gonzales is currently going through.
    And apparently ZFG was planning this for numerous years; the four that KC knew her and how ever many that ZFG knew JH prior to KC meeting her. You know, when ZFG and JH were dating...
    Last edited by lin; 03-13-2009 at 10:13 AM. Reason: changed pronoun for clarity
    Opinion above.




    wftv link
    Casey's attorney said it's not in her best interest to tell what she knows about where Caylee is. "It does her no good to show her cards to give the prosecution any advantage they have to put her away for life," Baez said.
    How's that workin' for ya'?

    Please click here to donate to TES


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  10. #10
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    I'll offer my verdict: Guilty of Murder 1; at least felony murder and likely premeditated.

    31 days will be virtually impossible to explain away to any reasonable person. No one who cares for any child, whether or not it is their own, will ever get over this simple fact, imo.

    Decomp in KC's car, if allowed into evidence, will likewise be virtually impossible to explain away, given the totality of the circumstances.

    KC's behavior during the 31 days and after, showing no remorse, no concern, telling friends that her "nanny" was wonderful, etc. will pull all of the random pieces of evidence together and lead to only one reasonable inference to any reasonable person.

    The prosecution must walk a tight line in weaving together the truth from all of the facts in the form of a narrative but without overwhelming the jury with so much information that they forget what much of what they heard because there is so very much to consider. The prosecution must also avoid the temptation to use the KISS method; over-simplifying the case and not putting forth enough evidence to show the totality would likewise leave wiggle room for the defense with a sympathetic juror.
    Opinion above.




    wftv link
    Casey's attorney said it's not in her best interest to tell what she knows about where Caylee is. "It does her no good to show her cards to give the prosecution any advantage they have to put her away for life," Baez said.
    How's that workin' for ya'?

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DotsEyes View Post
    I would play all the eerily quiet videos of Caylee where no one talks to her and show what kind of "mother" KC was when no one was around.

    BTW. There is no need for an attorney here. You've nailed it.
    I always think of a serpent studying Caylee as a potential meal when I watch those "silent videographer" clips. Creepy, and wrong.

  12. #12
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    Thursday, Casey's attorney said it's not in her best interest to tell what she knows about where Caylee is. "It does her no good to show her cards to give the prosecution any advantage they have to put her away for life," Jose Baez said.
    http://www.wftv.com/news/17610344/detail.html

    Is there any other way to interpet this than- JB is saying yes, my client is guilty, and the prosecution already had enough proof, and we just don't want to supply more, because we are still hoping to get a lesser sentence? However, if KC talks, she's screwed for life.

    How will they discredit this statement in court, when trying to now say KC is innocent?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevCrim View Post
    Thursday, Casey's attorney said it's not in her best interest to tell what she knows about where Caylee is. "It does her no good to show her cards to give the prosecution any advantage they have to put her away for life," Jose Baez said.
    http://www.wftv.com/news/17610344/detail.html

    Is there any other way to interpet this than- JB is saying yes, my client is guilty, and the prosecution already had enough proof, and we just don't want to supply more, because we are still hoping to get a lesser sentence? However, if KC talks, she's screwed for life.

    How will they discredit this statement in court, when trying to now say KC is innocent?
    First - very interesting thread! Thanks to all for offering such well-thought out posts. I think Irish must be writing the screenplay

    Second - and a bit OT - to add to this quote from RevCrim. IIRC, JB also stated something to the effect, that, "when this is all over I'll still be a member of the community", to the press when there were rumors swirling that he was being investigated by the Florida Bar, and he was being threatened. He missed the opportunity to proclaim the innocence of his client and stepped on the "of course I know she's guilty" landmine.

    Finally - I just don't see that Casey has left the defense much room to plant reasonable doubt. And the defense has p'd away what little they did have. The trail of evidence is absolutely everywhere. And Casey's failed miserably...or her counsel failed to coach her...at creating the image of an innocent & distraught mother being victimized by LE and SA whilst the REAL killer runs free.

    The defense will chip away at "junk science" hoping they can confuse the jury and frustrate the prosecution.

    As was stated earlier...not reporting for 31 days with not one single piece of evidence to support the claim that her motive for doing so was to protect her family, or that her own life was being threatened. Plus...
    • No evidence of prior contact w/ ZFG.
    • No outcry witnesses to testify.
    • No evidence of the 2 specific contacts she alleged with ZFG, "6/12"=>6/19 & 7/15.
    • False and misleading statements to LE indicating that she was not only NOT HELPING, but, HINDERING LE's efforts.
    • ZERO cell pings placing her in the immediate vicinity of either Sawgrass OR JB Park on 6/16.
    • SEVERAL cell pings placing her in the immediate vicinity of the disposal site on the date when forensic evidence indicates the human decomposition that was taking place in the car stopped. A car that she NEVER claimed to have lost possession of <6/27 and witnesses saw her driving continuously up until that date, and which following that date was secured in impound.

    ...and the list could go on & on.

    I wouldn't wanna be JB.

  14. #14
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    Computer Forensics
    Photographs - or lack thereof (nanny)
    Phone/text records - or lack thereof (nanny)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by trixi491 View Post
    I don't think the prosecution will argue that it was just the wanting a free, fun lifestyle that drove KC to kill Caylee. I think they will acknowledge the testimony from several people noting the jealousy and hostility between KC and CA regarding Caylee and the fights that occured b/c of CA wanting custody. We all know the animosity KC had towards her mother and if she wasn't going to have Caylee, her mother sure as hell wasn't. After all, KC said herself that she is a "spiteful *****."
    snipped

    trixi, I don't think they'll base their case on the "free lifestyle" theory either. That may be a secondary motive, but I believe the chief motive will be animosity, simmering anger with parents. I believe all of the strange internet searches, going back to March, will play a big part in the prosecution's theory.

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