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  1. #46
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    Witness and more questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by mdietz47 View Post
    ...

    Yes, the reported witness was 'behind' the car and says he saw a girl in the rear area that was bound and gagged. I was on the passenger side and didn't know of the other witness. I saw Sheila lying in the rear seat and she lifted her head so that I could see her. Two witnesses ,unknown to each other, corroborating the same sighting! Except only one was called.

    I saw the car the driver and chased him. However, my 'motivation' is for recovery of the girls. ... I've spoken with the Sheriff there and acknowledged that the MCP asked them to 'check-out' some suspects. ...

    But on a personal basis how does one deal with the experience of personally crossing the path of evil? Not a criminal or the aftermath of his illegal actions but actually experiencing an evil act at it inception? ...?
    I would add a few questions to Jeb's list:

    - Did you see TWO girls in the car, or was it only ONE girl who looked like Sheila Lyon?

    - Can you confirm the make, model, and color of the car as described by the IBM man? Or do you recall something different than what was stated in media accounts?

    - Can you describe a little background for that day? Where were you headed and what was it that attracted your attention to the vehicle? Who did you contact about it and when?

    It is quite likely that MCP contacted other Law Enforcement agencies in Virginia when this sighting was reported. They certainly took it seriously at the time and alerts were put out at least regionally. In fact, MCP was soon inundated with other sightings of possible tan station wagons and they were asking people to STOP pulling cars over and harrassing drivers.

    I really cannot answer your question regarding how to handle being a witness, except to say that at one time or another all of us are witnesses to tragedy and crime. Most of us go about our daily lives in a routine manner and even when something out of the ordinary is happening, we tend to think that something rational or normal is occuring. Or we tend to think that it is none of our business.

    Then later, thoughts of what we could or should have done come to us. Dwelling on those thoughts can bring on regret, helplessness, and depression. There are different ways of dealing with and handling these feelings and thoughts, but I do not feel qualified to offer advice in that area.

    I would suggest that you contact the current officers assigned to the Lyon case and tell them what you saw and remember of that day in 1975. My personal experience in speaking with them leads me to believe that they are reasonable and would welcome any information that you could provide.

  2. #47
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    again, good job Marshal,

    I don't know if you realize this, but the man you described, not only matches the TRM I saw at Wheaton Plaza, but it is also describes Fred Coffey. I know you said that it wasn't the guy in NC, in prison, but are you positive? Coffey has been known to have graying hair, & he does have a distinctive nose if you view him at an angle. I've seen about 3 or 4 pictures of Coffey, other than when he's dressed for court, & guess what..he's wearing plaid shirts. Coffey would have been not in his mid 30's in 1975 but about 30 yrs. old. When watching an old movie with Lee Van Cleef in it, I have said outloud to the people in the room with me, he looks like Fred Coffey, one of the suspects in the Lyon Case.

    About the TRM I saw. I described him as about 6ft. tall (he had footwear with tall heels), when I saw him. Coffey is about 5 ft 9 inches. the foot wear could make up the differance. Just like you said, medium build. Last but not least he had a ductail haircut, I know what it looks like. I would venture to say that people with this hairstyle are products of the 50s. Coffey would have been a teenager in the 50s.

    Marshall, I'm not saying you're wrong, but COULD the guy you saw be Fred Coffey. Look at the picture of him that was in the papers in 1987, it was taken in 1975 when he worked at Vitro. Thanks for you time!
    Last edited by Jeb; 08-17-2010 at 04:29 PM.

  3. #48
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    Coffey's current residence...

    Quote Originally Posted by mdietz47 View Post
    Wow, you leave me thinking, ‘what if?’...

    From the record, Coffey was indicted on Feb 16, 1987, in Mecklenburg Co. (Charlotte) on first-degree murder charges for the kidnapping, rape and strangulation of 10 year-old Amanda Ray. Recalling, apparently Fred was the boyfriend of Amanda’s mother at the time she disappeared on July 18th. On July 19th her body was found near a lake in Mecklenburg Co., she’d suffered bruises, a black eye and died from asphyxiation.

    Although Amanda was murdered on July 18th, 1979, Coffey wasn’t charged until February 16th, 1987. The proximal basis for the charge was identification of dog hairs on Coffey’s couch and in his van that matched dog hairs found on Amanda’s clothing at the time of her death. At his trial the State also produced evidence that prior to this murder, Coffey had masturbated in the presence of a 3 year-old daughter of an acquaintance. The State also produced evidence of 1974 convictions in Virginia Beach, VA, on 2 counts of indecent exposure and 2 counts of indecent liberties involving 3 children (ages not stated). Also, 1986 convictions for 9 counts of indecent liberties with 3 children in Caswell Co, NC

    So he is now serving a life sentence in Central Prison, Raleigh, NC and I’ve been refused permission to contact him. ....
    Just some clarification. Fred Coffey was at Central Prison while on death row. In 1995, his death sentence was overturned in a re-trial when all of the previous convictions and details were with held from the jury. For the past several years, Coffey has been residing at Pender Prison in Burgaw, NC.

    I have not seen in court records that the Virginia Beach incidents were introduced into evidence in North Carolina. The other information you mention - of incidents which took place in NC were introduced. Coffey was convicted in late 1986 of three incidents involving three children and for that he was awarded five separate jail terms to be served consecutively (but concurrently with the later death sentence).

    Coffey began serving those 1986 sentences in January 1987, and completed them in 2007. His current sentence/incarceration is for the first degree murder of Amanda Ray. He has been up for parole every year since 1995 and has always been denied parole. In July of 2009, when parole was again denied, it was decreed that he would not be up for parole again until 3 years had passed.

    Coffey admitted to a court appointed psychiatrist that he had molested over 100 children. That information was admitted during his murder trial.

    Regarding the Virginia Beach incidents:

    In 1974 Coffey was charged with the abduction and rape of a 13-year-old Navy dependant. The case was handled by civilian authorities, plead down and he served no time. The Navy, however, discharged him on 17 Sept 1974. Some thime after that, he moved to Maryland.

    By October 1975, Coffey was back in Virginia Beach where he was arrested and charged with "Contributing to the delinquency of a minor" with a 15 year old girl.

  4. #49
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    Coffey & the stationwagon

    Coffey is serving his sentence at Pender Corr. Inst. in NC. It's in burgaw NC,off Rt. 40.

    Whoever snatched the girls, controlled the girls for 10 or 12 days, until 7Apr. when the girl/girls were sighted in the station wagon. I don't know how or where this could have possibly been done,or whether the abductor was Coffey or someone else.

    About the stationwagon and driver...consider this; the TRM I saw had a ducktail haircut, I'm 1oo% positive on that. LE told me about 5 yrs. ago that Coffey had 3 cars back in '75. My response was, well, was one of them a stationwagon like the one sighted in Va 7Apr75.? He then told me that Coffey had access to one. Sooo, in 1975 how many people wore a ducktail haircut which went out with the 50s, & how many people drove a stationwagon of this nature? Or better yet,in 1975, how many people had a ductail haircut & drove this exact type car?

  5. #50
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    The stationwagon

    I'm just trying to connect the dots. Here's the point; TRM had a ducktail haircut, the "wagon" driver had a ducktail haircut, & Fred Coffey had access to a "wagon".

    In the video of Coffey being arrested in '87, his hair was combed back on the sides, but I can't see if it forms a ducktail in the back.

    Coffey was married 3 times, & I assume this happened around Bristol,Va. He was raised in Bristol & his mother Pauline Davidson was there also, along with his sisters. Maybe the "wagon" was a loaner from one of these people. I do believe Bristol to be a Blue Ridge County. I also believe Coffey was the TRM. Is it possible Coffey was returning to Bristol the day of the sightings,(Manassas would be enroute). Whatever he did with the girl/girls would have happened between Manassas & Bristol.

  6. #51
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    This may change the urgency of finding them...

    I hope this decision on station wagons and why I say it was ‘70 Torino model can wait another day?

    I’ve come down with summer cold and can’t stay up so late tonight to get it all out.

    What I alluded to earlier about the NC Justice system is incompetent and non-functional is on the front page of the Raleigh News & Observer under http://www.newsobserver.com

    The Crime Lab has been like a mental institution run by administrators and doctors loonier than the patients. The Attorney General has been informed that over 200 capital crime convictions will need to be voided due to improper, falsified and fake scientific testing methods, going back to 1987. The Labs bogus evidence analysis may have improperly lead to the death penalty for three prisoners who were executed for a crime they may not have been guilty of. Several gave confessions but they may not have deserved the death penalty.

    Modified: 08/19/10 07:06:57 PM

    State police group urges criminal probe of SBI
    The North Carolina Police Benevolence Association called Thursday for a criminal investigation of SBI analysts, and their supervisors, who withheld critical blood evidence for 16 years.

    SBI agent Duane Deaver's testimony from Greg Taylor's exoneration hearing

    SBI manuals directing analysts how to word reports on bodily fluids

    Serious issues

    Testimony on blood tests changed

    The men behind the audit

    It’s important because Coffey’s death penalty conviction may have been the result of improper analysis and possibly forged results by the Lab scientist and technicians. I’m of the opinion that just about any lawyer worth his straw could now get him released. He’s been charged, tried, convicted and served the mandatory time for his crime. He’s been eligible for parole for 3 years and now the NC State Supreme Court will have NO option but void his conviction and release him for retrial. But all he has to do is offer an Alford plea, accept a guilty verdict from the judge and with credit for his time already served walk out a free man.

    Somehow someone on the prosecution side was dumb enough to think that the SBI could take 3 dog hairs from 3 different locations after exposure for a number of years and match them. Nobody now believes the Lab personnel could even chew bubble gum and still walk. The hoaxsters, conmen and clowns in the place didn’t know a damn thing about forenic science so they read a book on the subject and made up the rest.

    He’s gonna walk by next year – parole or no parole - he’s on his way out.

  7. #52
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    For the defense...

    Quote Originally Posted by mdietz47 View Post
    ...
    It’s important because Coffey’s death penalty conviction may have been the result of improper analysis and possibly forged results by the Lab scientist and technicians. I’m of the opinion that just about any lawyer worth his straw could now get him released. He’s been charged, tried, convicted and served the mandatory time for his crime. He’s been eligible for parole for 3 years and now the NC State Supreme Court will have NO option but void his conviction and release him for retrial. But all he has to do is offer an Alford plea, accept a guilty verdict from the judge and with credit for his time already served walk out a free man....
    He’s gonna walk by next year – parole or no parole - he’s on his way out.
    You make some good points regarding a possible retrial or release of Mr. Coffey. He has actually been up for parole every year for the past 15 years now, and thankfully the Parole Board of NC has seen fit to keep him behind bars.

    He had a very slick lawyer, indeed, who got him off the death penalty after two re-trials. So maybe one of those guys in the expensive suits and big gold rings will move in there and try to get this Innocent Lamb released.

    In the past few years there have been two major efforts to prosecute Mr. Coffey for two other child murders. One in North Carolina for the murder of little Neely Smith (age 5), and the other in Virginia for the abduction and murder of Travis Shane King (age 8). In both cases, Coffey was the last person seen with the child. Perhaps it is time to jump-start those prosecution efforts.

  8. #53
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    Amazing info mdietz47. Looking forward to reading more of your posts. Interesting how Sheila was dressed like a Catholic school girl. Not at all like the clothes(or type of clothes) she was last seen in.

  9. #54
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    Suspects and signatures and patterns...

    Quote Originally Posted by mdietz47 View Post
    ...

    There’s no doubt that Coffey is a sickoo that needs iron bars between him and our children. But again, you bring up his predilection for single, young, pre-adolescent children – boys and girls. Of course, I know nothing about the circumstances of these two cases and would like to find out more because IF Coffey is responsible for the Lyons disappearance then he’s someone to focus on but if NOT then we need to move-on to some else.

    I understand the reason for the MCP’s fixation on Coffey, as a primary suspect, is because of the circumstances surrounding his leaving MC without prior notice the day after another girl’s body was found in the area. And then only after 1987, when Mecklenburg County NC LE’s collared him for his last abduction.

    I’ve always found his supposed behavior in Montgomery Co in 1975 as twisted, a distortion of his ‘normal’ signature attack. If Coffey took the Lyons, why did he hold both of them for 10 days? His pattern is commission and escape. And to return to the very area of his last crime and ingratiate himself into a job then kill another? Although, it was more like his signature behavior, the whole scenario sounds stupidly suicidal for a predictor whose longevity is dependent on escape without a trace to attack again. Just seems like reckless, out-of-character behavior without justification.

    Then of course, the MCP’s number one suspect falls of their chart of who-done-its, what 3-4 years ago, when they find the evidence to blame some teens for that second girls death?....
    Montgomery County Police have never officially named anyone - known or unknown - as a "suspect" in the case of the missing Lyon girls or in the murder of Kathy Lynn Beatty.

    In these threads on Websleuths, there have been a number of possible suspects discussed - including, but not limited to Fred Howard Coffey, Jr.

    As you have pointed out, MCP did not know of Mr. Coffey until March of 1987, some twelve years after the girls went missing. At that time, a police spokesman stated to the news media that he believed Coffey was the strongest lead they had in the case since day one. Within three days, MCP announced to the press that they could find no connection between Coffey and the Lyon sisters. Unfortunately, many records had been lost by that time and the trail was indeed cold.

    While MCP might have considered Coffey as a possible perpetrator in the murder of Kathy Lynn Beatty, I do not think that they ever considered him their "number one suspect". In fact, the few indications to the press were that a person or persons from the local kid population were thought to be responsible for her death. MCP even suggested that her death may have been an "accident" and that she might have fallen and hit her head while running from someone.

    MCP investigators in recent years have mentioned new witness testimony about two persons carrying a young girl across Georgia Avenue, but this would tend to support their earliest suspicions, rather than the work of Mr. Coffey. Unfortunately, urban legend seems to have provided much of the recent information on Kathy's case, and police have to carefully sift through hearsay and actual facts.

    As the title of this thread would indicate, the premise of these posts is that the Lyon girls were indeed abducted. By whom is one major question. Other questions as to why, how, etc are as important. Was it a single perpetrator, or were more than one involved? A major obstacle to trying to answer those questions is the dearth of evidence and clues.

    While there have been a number of potential suspects and persons of interest mentioned, it is hard to connect the dots on any of them. The very fact that there is so little evidence means that we are left with speculation in attempting to determine signatures and patterns, and then to project them onto these cases.

    I would suggest that the abduction of the Lyon girls was NOT a first and only time event for the perpetrator. He was skilled, calculating, and confident. To attempt a double abduction, he had probably conducted previous single abductions. He most likely continued his abductions after this one.

    At this point, I do not think that any of the suggested possible suspects could be named beyond a doubt as the perpetrator. Nor do I think that any of them could be completely ruled out based on known facts. Some might seem stronger or more likely than others, but that is not enough to arrest, indict, or convict.

    One cannot, on the basis of information gained from only one or two specific cases, project that everything will match other known cases. Signatures do occur, similarities exist, patterns might be determined. But connections, projections, or rule-outs cannot be made on the absence of evidence.

    Also, the "signature" might be that the perpetrator changes his method or pattern intentionally with each abduction. A pattern could be a simple repeating one of every six months, or it could be an excellerating one in which he attacks at successively earlier intervals, and with increasing violence or carelessness.

    As you point out, it is also possible that either the Lyon abduction or the Beatty abduction/murder might be crimes which are outside of the usual signature/pattern of the perpetrator/perpetrators. Or that parts of those cases are outside the norm of the usual pattern.

    It is possible that some event or obstacle occurred which caused the perpetrator(s) to alter their plans or patterns and to have to depart from their intended course of action.
    Last edited by Richard; 08-24-2010 at 10:42 AM.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdietz47 View Post

    <snipped>
    No, I can’t see this as any thing but a planned abduction for a special purpose. I’m not saying that the Lyon’s sisters were singled out but the perpetrator had a singular purpose in risking taking them. He obviously had influence as a person of trust to so easily disarm their suspicions. He had cooperation or help to hold them for 10 days, either a secure safe house or supportive associates. I saw no overt evidence that Sheila had been harmed or physically abused. But what did he do with them for those 10 days? It’s like their importance wasn’t for the immediate but for a later greater, more important purpose?
    <snipped>
    So do you think the girls are still alive, or kept alive for a significant amount of time? I am assuming you think the purpose of their abduction was some type of slavery.
    Children don't stop dancing


  11. #56
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    I don't really understand why after 35 years LE won't release whatever they have to try to find the girls and bring them home. Chances are whoever did it is no longer alive, or near death.
    I hope someone picks up an interest in this case to get it back out to the media, or put pressure on certain agencies so the girls can be found.
    Children don't stop dancing

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdietz47 View Post
    “As you read my responses to the moderator and others questions, you see that I have given a complete description of the vehicle, the driver and Sheila. Enough that I'm certain where they were taken and held after my sighting. Marshall Dietz
    I guess I don't understand how your sighting of the vehicle, driver and Sheila leads to you being certain where they were taken and held after the sighting?

  13. #58
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    “I guess I don't understand how your sighting of the vehicle, driver and Sheila leads to you being certain where they were taken and held after the sighting?”

    I thought I did explain that it is my belief that they were taken to a VA Blue Ridge county because of my description of the County personal tax sticker in the bottom of middle of the vehicle’s windshield.

    Now we all have to consider that this happened 35+ years ago and a lot has changed in and around Northern Virginia/ Metro Washington DC. Depending on how long you've lived there and where you lived, you’re experiences will be totally different than mine.

    I lived in the western half of Fairfax from 1971 to ’95 and worked in Prince William the whole time. I got married, had 2 kids and spent weekends traveling around and about the northwestern part of the Old Dominion from Winchester to Luray to Fredricksburg and the Eastern Neck. I’m not a native but I’m sure my Scotch-Irish Graham ancestors were.

    In the ’70’s-90’s, nearly all the DC area counties on both side of the Potomac had personal property and emissions decals to prove residency, payment of personal auto tax and emissions testing. When the Post reported the ‘Manassass Sighting’ the dis-information was that the witness could not read the license plate well enough to determine the State of issuance. The visible numerals were in red on white, which could have been either MD or VA at the time since both states had plates of that color scheme on the roads.

    The FBI and others decided that this witness’s sighting was bogus and dismissed him after checking ALL possible plate combinations in MD none of which matched his reported vehicle description, which might also be dis-information. Since they never called me back, they didn’t consider what I could have testified to a more accurate description of the vehicle.

    When the MCP finally did their cursory recheck of their cold files in 2004, I told them again that the vehicle description, as reported in the Post, was wrong. It wasn’t a ’68 Falcon tan station wagon; it was a ‘70’s Torino Country Squire station wagon with a County personal property decal that had a cream background and only a red silhouette displayed in the center. There was NO state inspection sticker next to it. That meant the vehicle was from VA not MD and it was from a western County outside of the DC metro area.

    So the perpetrator wasn’t a sexual predator but a sexual sadist who was willing to risk exposure from holding two kidnapped sisters somewhere for 10 days and then just cruise through Manassass on the way to wherever. That wherever is identified by the County sticker and what the cold case officer said to me to assure me that my sighting was real and to make me believe that they knew more than has been reported. That’s the privileged of State secrecy.

    At the time, I was pissed that the MCP would ‘stake’ this case rather than try to solve it; but now I know that is standard procedure for ALL nvestigations. Ac criminal investigation’s sole objective is to identify and convict a likely suspect. If they don’t have a likely suspect, they have nothing to investigate and they never look for the victim.

  14. #59
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    DMV records

    Most State's Motor Vehicle records for the 1970's were in paper form. They were compiled by different counties or districts and it took time to get them centrally filed. Some states back then would issue plates each year all at one time, rather than monthly like it is usually done now.

    At the time of the Lyon Sisters' disappearance, Maryland was in the middle of an annual change over of license plates/registrations. Other states probably were as well, because there was a big push to get Bicentennial Plates on all cars in 1975.

    Because of that change-over, the paper records for Maryland were still in local offices around the state, and it took Police a long and hard effort to go through them, trying to find all 100 plates which began with DMT-6xx.

    Whether or not complete DMV records even still exist for those years would be questionable. And if they do exist, they would not be computerized, but rather the origional paper forms.

    This being a Maryland case, it might be extremely difficult for Maryland police to motivate the Motor Vehicle Department of another state to begin a massive search for old records. I am not saying that it couldn't be fruitful, but only that it would take a huge effort to even get it started.

    A major problem with pursuing this case is that there are many other possible connections, but also many different legal jurisdictions. A story which is too often repeated in the pursuit of justice.

    In regard to Mr. Fred Coffey: He may or may not have had anything to do with the disappearance of Sheila and Kate, but it is a certain fact that he is a convicted serial child molester with convictions in both Virginia and North Carolina. And a fact that he is a convicted child murderer serving a life sentence in North Carolina. He is strongly suspected of a number of other child killings in other states. He has certainly had quite a number of fair hearings, both in court and at parole board meetings.

  15. #60
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    Wow Marshall what you have been writing here on this case is very impressive and holds great potential for helping to solve this excruciating case.

    I was unaware of the threads you writing until today when Jeb telephoned me to point it out. I have written on other Lyon sisters websleuth threads and the missing trio threads. I believe these two cases are linked.

    I believe that James Mitchell DeBardeleben stole 3 maryland state police uniforms in a hold up of a dry cleaners in Baltimore in Feb of 1974 and used his fake cop ruse to win the girls over.

    What is clear to me is that LE circa 1975/76 did not connect the dots to even create a hypothesis that the girls were taken by a police impersonator. Had they done this in 1975 they would have been woefully neglectful to not warn the public.

    DeBardeleben was the ultimate Wheaton maggot in that he conducted bank robberies, elaborate schemes to rob the elderly, forgeries and purchased his printing press to conduct counterfeiting operations all in Wheaton. He robbed the bank in the parking lot in Wheaton plaza a year or two before the Lyon sisters abductions by going to the home of the bank manager after he left for work and put a gun to his wife's head and her call her husband - pay him or he'll murder me. The pickup site was originally Wheaton Library's public bathroom.

    DeBardeleben is serving 375 years for being a sexual sadist amongst other things. Debardeleben's crimes were of a nature that experts on sexual sadists and serial killers consider him to have been one of the worst ever known. He created safe houses and stole victims away for days. He handcuffed them to I-bolts in a closet floor and was known to have kept them there for days on end.

    He was a very careful planner. Very cold and very calculating.

    He married a woman from Manassass. A high school girl from the class of 70. When his mother died in Fort Worth in 74 and shortly there after his wife Carin left him he had extreme emotional upset and he escalated his criminal activity considerably. He was already a murderer in 1965, a rapist in PG county in 68, known to have murdered again in cold blood in 71.

    His criminal name was/is "the mall passer" because he loved committing crimes at malls. He was especially fond of conducting criminal behavior during holiday times. He was a counterfeiter who funded himself by passing small amounts of $ at malls so he could live out his more sinister behavior as a kidnapper, rapist, sexual sadist, and murderer.

    He was arrested in 1976 for passing a fake $100 in a Montgomery county mall (could have been Wheaton plaza). At the time of his arrest the Secret Service found his apartment with its printing press, and a large quantity of home made pornography, often involving ligature marks, drugged, frightened and seemingly forced subjects. His photos were often of young or "barely pubescent" girls. The Secret Service failed to do anything about pursuing these photos in the time frame of his 1976 arrest and conviction.

    He was released 2 or 3 years later. Upon his return to the DC area in 1978 or 79 his exploits as a sexual sadists were extensive. He was convicting for kidnapping and raping women for days in Baltimore, Ocean City MD, Delaware, Frederick, VA. It was/is well documented that he had safe houses in remote parts of VA.

    In 1981 he was convicted of raping and sodomizing a young woman in front of the IBM building in Manassass.

    DeBardeleben's criminal profile fits the crime at a very high level.

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