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  1. #1
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    Significance of the time of year the girls were taken

    Here it is March 23, two days away from the anniversary of the Lyon girls disappearance. So I start to think about what was going on. What goes on this time of year. Spring begins, more folks are outside. Children are allowed more freedom.
    It is also time for Easter in some years. This year Easter is still a ways off, but in 1975, March 25 fell on Easter week. Tuesday, 5 days before Easter. I wonder if the timing of this abduction had anything to do with Easter, or Easter week. I wonder if the abductor had any spiritual ties? More specifically any Catholic or Episcopal, or Lutheran ties. As I think these are the only Christian denominations that emphasize Lent, and then focus on Easter week and the events leading to Easter. There is Maunday Thursday, Good Friday, Saturday, and then Easter. Christians believe the death of Jesus on Good Friday represents a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins.
    I just wonder if this abductor had any background with these teachings, and had some misconstrued/misguided thoughts about it all. The girls were taken on a Tuesday, but they could have survived until Friday.
    I am just trying to think of the significance, if any, this abduction may have had to the abductor. Or rather the timing of the abduction for the abductor. Was this a religious or spiritual person??
    This idea at first seems shocking, but BTK was a council member in a Lutheran church, stranger things have happened. . .
    Children don't stop dancing

  2. #2
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    Time of Year..........

    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheLight View Post
    Here it is March 23, two days away from the anniversary of the Lyon girls disappearance. So I start to think about what was going on. What goes on this time of year. Spring begins, more folks are outside. Children are allowed more freedom.
    It is also time for Easter in some years. This year Easter is still a ways off, but in 1975, March 25 fell on Easter week. Tuesday, 5 days before Easter. I wonder if the timing of this abduction had anything to do with Easter, or Easter week. I wonder if the abductor had any spiritual ties? More specifically any Catholic or Episcopal, or Lutheran ties. As I think these are the only Christian denominations that emphasize Lent, and then focus on Easter week and the events leading to Easter. There is Maunday Thursday, Good Friday, Saturday, and then Easter. Christians believe the death of Jesus on Good Friday represents a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins.
    I just wonder if this abductor had any background with these teachings, and had some misconstrued/misguided thoughts about it all. The girls were taken on a Tuesday, but they could have survived until Friday.
    I am just trying to think of the significance, if any, this abduction may have had to the abductor. Or rather the timing of the abduction for the abductor. Was this a religious or spiritual person??
    This idea at first seems shocking, but BTK was a council member in a Lutheran church, stranger things have happened. . .
    I understand what you're saying and you're right about BTK. Stranger things have happened.Honestly, I feel it was a spring break thing. Lots of kids out and about. Many victims to choose from in many different places. I've wondered about the abductor's job. He was free in the middle of the day and during spring break. I thought maybe a teacher?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherof5 View Post
    I understand what you're saying and you're right about BTK. Stranger things have happened.Honestly, I feel it was a spring break thing. Lots of kids out and about. Many victims to choose from in many different places. I've wondered about the abductor's job. He was free in the middle of the day and during spring break. I thought maybe a teacher?
    Interesting thought. He could be a teacher, or a night shift worker, or since Wheaton is so close to DC, he could be affiliated with the federal gov. in some capacity. I don't know. I still think Easter week could be significant.
    Children don't stop dancing

  4. #4
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    Red face Just A Theory.......

    This theory doesn't include TRM, I just thought maybe we could consider someone they knew.Richard, please go easy on me

    The girls were taken just days before both of their bdays.What if someone they knew saw them walking home,(or leaving the mall)stopped them and said he had bday gifts for them.He offers them a ride and tells them that he'll swing by his place to get their gifts and then drop them at home.

    OK, let me have it!

  5. #5
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    Theories...

    These are interesting theories concerning who might have abducted the girls.

    As to there being a significance to the Easter Season, I would tend to doubt that, or think of it as a long shot without other supporting evidence. For instance, if this guy had made phone calls or left behind some sort of evidence that he was in fact a religious type of guy, then the Easter angle would be a stronger possibility.

    One of the most common traits of abductors and child molesters is that they tend to think only of themselves at all times. Thoughts of others (like a group, accomplice, or victim) are usually only taken into consideration as to how they fulfill their own wants. In other words, they might use a technique which plays on others' feelings, but might not actually feel that way themselves.

    It would seem far more likely that the more immediate variables such as warm weather, time of day, and situation of school being out and a lot of kids at the mall played a direct part in this specific crime. Also, such factors as moon phase, day of the week, etc could affect the abductor in some way. When all factors have been analyzed, possible patterns might be seen when comparing this crime with others (solved and unsolved).

    One wonders how things might have been different if it had been raining. Or if Kate's friend had accompanied them to the mall that day. Or if they had arrived a half hour earlier. Or if they had decided to go to a movie that afternoon. The list is endless, but not meant to cause anxiety or second guessing. What I am saying is that I think this crime involved both carefull planning AND the elements of chance.

    With the lack of evidence in this case, certainly just about anything is possible. Regarding the possibility that the abductor may have known or been familiar to the girls; many friends, relatives, and acquaintences were interviewed and questioned by police in an attempt to develop a possible suspect, but with no luck at all.

    I do agree with the concept of the abductor being at least "familiar" with/to the girls, as I mentioned in a post earlier. I feel that the abductor may well have been the Tape Recorder Man, whose "interview" with them was only a way of introducing himself to them and making them feel comfortable around him - if only enough to approach his vehicle.

  6. #6
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    Richard.........

    quote from Richard-I do agree with the concept of the abductor being at least "familiar" with/to the girls, as I mentioned in a post earlier. I feel that the abductor may well have been the Tape Recorder Man, whose "interview" with them was only a way of introducing himself to them and making them feel comfortable around him - if only enough to approach his vehicle.

    If TRM was able to get them to approach his vehicle,what is your theory of how he got them into the vehicle without a struggle?I agree that if he interviewed them earlier that day,he would be "familiar" to them,but would that interview be enough for them to trust him so much that they would get into his vehicle willingly? I don't know, I'm struggling with that.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherof5 View Post
    quote from Richard-I do agree with the concept of the abductor being at least "familiar" with/to the girls, as I mentioned in a post earlier. I feel that the abductor may well have been the Tape Recorder Man, whose "interview" with them was only a way of introducing himself to them and making them feel comfortable around him - if only enough to approach his vehicle.

    If TRM was able to get them to approach his vehicle,what is your theory of how he got them into the vehicle without a struggle?I agree that if he interviewed them earlier that day,he would be "familiar" to them,but would that interview be enough for them to trust him so much that they would get into his vehicle willingly? I don't know, I'm struggling with that.
    I agree this is a tough one, if they were 6 or 8 maybe . . .
    But one of the girls is just shy of 13, old enough to question. And since she is the first born girl in the family, she will have traits of an oldest child, which are usually responsible, organized, and reserved. I can't see her jumping into a vehicle with a relative stranger. I think it would take some coaxing. And no one saw these girls standing around talking to anyone in a vehicle, which makes me think there wasn't a lot of coaxing going on. Again I am speculating about something due to the lack of evidence we have in this case. In a case where there is so little you have to consider what isn't there.
    You have to consider everything.
    I also think if we are going to consider moon phases and day of the week, we should also consider Easter and/or religious holidays and the girls birthday. Both of these things were happening that week.
    To my knowledge this guy didn't leave anything around to suggest he is "any" type of guy. So he may be spiritual, he may be moon driven, he may have a thing for Tuesdays, he may have a thing for March, he may have an axe to grind, or he may be known in some loose association to the family. We just don't know. They guy didn't leave anything to suggest what type of person he is, what motivates him, or what infuriates him. We've got nothing tangible.
    Am I correct in assuming all we have is:
    1-the girls went to Wheaton Plaza at 11:30am 3/25/75
    2-"jimmy" claims to have seen the girls talking to a man with a tape recorder. TRM goes one way they go the other. he provides a description which leads to a sketch and then others come forward to say they saw this man at various shopping centers in PG and Montgomery County. (question: is "jimmy" the only person who saw the girls talking to TRM on 3/25?, did anyone else see TRM at Wheaton plaza on 3/25?)
    3-jay claims to have seen his sisters at the orange bowl eating pizza around 1pm.
    4-someone reportedly saw one of the sisters sitting on the Easter Bunny's arm while the Easter Bunny is talking with other children. (don't really understand what this means)
    5-someone reportedly sees the girls in a candy shop, and at the leather shop in the plaza on 3/25
    6-two people, a friend and Mr. Mann reportedly see the girls walking toward home on Drumm Ave. on 3/25 around 2:30-3:30.
    7-the girls are reported to missing. they are not home at 6pm for dinner or later.
    8-the girls have never returned home, there has been nothing found that belongs to the girls.
    9-a ransom call was made and never followed through on. the lyon family did as instructed and no one on the other end complied
    10-a reported sighting in VA of the girls bound in the back of a station wagon

    This is it, right? This is all we have?? And if we discount all the sightings after 2:30pm then all we have is the girls left for the plaza, made it there, talked to TRM, and the Easter Bunny, and then never returned home. We don't even know if they made it out of the mall before they met with foul play.

    With so little to go on, we've got to look at the little things, and what isn't there. I understand the need to look at TRM, he was a strange dude reportedly there that day, but we should also look at the Easter Bunny, some strange characters take these jobs to get close to kids. We should also consider everyone suspect unless they've provided an alibi for that day and time.
    Children don't stop dancing

  8. #8
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    Interesting point about the Easter Bunny... they do take breaks and have shift changes where a different person could have taken over. So even if witnesses remember the Easter Bunny there until 7PM say, that doesn't mean it is the same person in that suit.....

  9. #9
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    SharetheLight.........

    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheLight View Post
    I agree this is a tough one, if they were 6 or 8 maybe . . .
    But one of the girls is just shy of 13, old enough to question. And since she is the first born girl in the family, she will have traits of an oldest child, which are usually responsible, organized, and reserved. I can't see her jumping into a vehicle with a relative stranger. I think it would take some coaxing. And no one saw these girls standing around talking to anyone in a vehicle, which makes me think there wasn't a lot of coaxing going on. Again I am speculating about something due to the lack of evidence we have in this case. In a case where there is so little you have to consider what isn't there.
    You have to consider everything.
    I also think if we are going to consider moon phases and day of the week, we should also consider Easter and/or religious holidays and the girls birthday. Both of these things were happening that week.
    To my knowledge this guy didn't leave anything around to suggest he is "any" type of guy. So he may be spiritual, he may be moon driven, he may have a thing for Tuesdays, he may have a thing for March, he may have an axe to grind, or he may be known in some loose association to the family. We just don't know. They guy didn't leave anything to suggest what type of person he is, what motivates him, or what infuriates him. We've got nothing tangible.
    Am I correct in assuming all we have is:
    1-the girls went to Wheaton Plaza at 11:30am 3/25/75
    2-"jimmy" claims to have seen the girls talking to a man with a tape recorder. TRM goes one way they go the other. he provides a description which leads to a sketch and then others come forward to say they saw this man at various shopping centers in PG and Montgomery County. (question: is "jimmy" the only person who saw the girls talking to TRM on 3/25?, did anyone else see TRM at Wheaton plaza on 3/25?)
    3-jay claims to have seen his sisters at the orange bowl eating pizza around 1pm.
    4-someone reportedly saw one of the sisters sitting on the Easter Bunny's arm while the Easter Bunny is talking with other children. (don't really understand what this means)
    5-someone reportedly sees the girls in a candy shop, and at the leather shop in the plaza on 3/25
    6-two people, a friend and Mr. Mann reportedly see the girls walking toward home on Drumm Ave. on 3/25 around 2:30-3:30.
    7-the girls are reported to missing. they are not home at 6pm for dinner or later.
    8-the girls have never returned home, there has been nothing found that belongs to the girls.
    9-a ransom call was made and never followed through on. the lyon family did as instructed and no one on the other end complied
    10-a reported sighting in VA of the girls bound in the back of a station wagon

    This is it, right? This is all we have?? And if we discount all the sightings after 2:30pm then all we have is the girls left for the plaza, made it there, talked to TRM, and the Easter Bunny, and then never returned home. We don't even know if they made it out of the mall before they met with foul play.

    With so little to go on, we've got to look at the little things, and what isn't there. I understand the need to look at TRM, he was a strange dude reportedly there that day, but we should also look at the Easter Bunny, some strange characters take these jobs to get close to kids. We should also consider everyone suspect unless they've provided an alibi for that day and time.
    Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by joellegirl View Post
    Interesting point about the Easter Bunny... they do take breaks and have shift changes where a different person could have taken over. So even if witnesses remember the Easter Bunny there until 7PM say, that doesn't mean it is the same person in that suit.....
    AND there were those underground tunnels . . .
    Children don't stop dancing


  11. #11
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    In terms of the Church calendar, 25 March is the Feast Day of St. Dismas---the thief crucified with Christ whose sins were forgiven. A kidnapping is theft, for which the kidnapper might believe he could be forgiven.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    In terms of the Church calendar, 25 March is the Feast Day of St. Dismas---the thief crucified with Christ whose sins were forgiven. A kidnapping is theft, for which the kidnapper might believe he could be forgiven.
    Great info wfgodot! That's exactly the type of information I was talking about. Is the Feast Day of St. Dismas always on 3/25 or does it vary from year to year? Thanks again for this info.
    Children don't stop dancing

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheLight View Post
    Great info wfgodot! That's exactly the type of information I was talking about. Is the Feast Day of St. Dismas always on 3/25 or does it vary from year to year? Thanks again for this info.

    It's always on 25 March.

  14. #14
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    So: The Feast of St. Dismas falling on the Monday before Easter would doubly affect a kidnapper who might believe in some twisted way that his "mission" was divinely blessed or even commanded, and that he would be forgiven and, symbolically, rise from the dead with Christ and be taken into heaven.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    So: The Feast of St. Dismas falling on the Monday before Easter would doubly affect a kidnapper who might believe in some twisted way that his "mission" was divinely blessed or even commanded, and that he would be forgiven and, symbolically, rise from the dead with Christ and be taken into heaven. Also, 1975 was the first time the Feast of St. Dismas had occurred during Easter Week since 1918.
    Wow that is very interesting.
    Definitely something to consider here. When I posted about the abductor possibly being religious, it was with the thought that if indeed the abductor was religious, it was a twisted religion. Or twisted thoughts/beliefs about religion. Maybe the abductor is someone who was victimized in the name of religion, or maybe just someone who was trying to play God.

    Whatever the cause or reason, a person with a skewed view of religion. Someone who may use religion to benefit themselves in a warped way. Maybe not even someone religious, but who uses religion to further their agenda.
    Children don't stop dancing

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