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  1. #31
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    Not sure where to post this so I'll do it here.

    We've all listed cases (solved and unsolved) that may or may not have similarities with the Lyon case. There are cases listed here, in the possible connections thread and the moon thread, and probably elsewhere too.

    I am wondering if anyone has made a complete chart with all of these cases listed with identifying info. Like victim name, age, physical description, place crime occurred, date and day crime occurred, and maybe clothing last seen in.
    And if someone has charted all these cases is there a strong connection to any case and the Lyon case?

    I have charted some cases but not all, it is . . . a process
    I hope to complete it soon, so I can post it here and everyone can see a concise list with all pertinent info in one place. Maybe then the connections, if any, will become more obvious. I am also hoping I can post it in a way that we can add on to it. Right now I don't even know how to post a document so if anyone can advise me it'd be much appreciated.

    Before I spend a lot of time doing this I just wanted to know if anyone sees a strong connection to any other case or cases we've listed thus far. If so, we can discuss, or not, but in the very least, I will list those cases together on the spreadsheet. Please jump in here if you do.

    Richard seems to be our resident expert on this case and other cold cases. Richard, do you have any thoughts about this that may help? With all the research you've done, do you see a strong thread which runs through the Lyon case and into others?? Or really any thread leading elsewhere??
    I'd appreciate any direction you may provide here. Your opinion is always valued.
    Children don't stop dancing

  2. #32
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    Possible connections... some thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheLight View Post
    ...And if someone has charted all these cases is there a strong connection to any case and the Lyon case?...

    Right now I don't even know how to post a document so if anyone can advise me it'd be much appreciated....

    Richard, do you have any thoughts about this that may help? With all the research you've done, do you see a strong thread which runs through the Lyon case and into others?? Or really any thread leading elsewhere??
    I'd appreciate any direction you may provide here. Your opinion is always valued.
    Thank you for the nice words.

    This topic/featured case started out simply as a thread in the Cold Case section. Joellegirl started it and it sat unnoticed for quite a while before interest started picking up on it.

    I had posted a number of other Cold Case threads, and when I thought that something sounded similar to the Lyon case, or to some of the potential suspects, I noted those thoughts in the Lyon Sisters thread. That Cold Case thread was transferred to this Featured Case section when it seemed that there was a lot of activity and interest.

    Because the origional thread was so long, it was hard to find info on various topics, and so we started others here - as you have done recently.

    I went back into the early thread and into the Cold Case files to post what I thought were cases with similarities to the Lyon case. Most of those are in the section called "Possible Connections". About a year ago, I wrote a summary for that thread in which I listed the cases in chronological order and included links to further information on each. You might locate that summary as a start and then add your other cases to it.

    A hint that I can give is to first snip the entire post into an e-mail to yourself, or into a text file where you can work on it off-line, saving your work from time to time.

    I do this by placing my little pointer at the top of what I want to copy, then hold down the left button on the mouse and drag it to the end, amplifying (highlighting) the text I want.

    Next, I hit Control C to save it, and when I put it on an e-mail draft, I hit Control V. I use the "mail waiting to be sent" feature on my e-mail provider to store what I am working on. (Sorry to be so long winded, but maybe it will help someone.)

    I selected my possible connected cases using various criteria:

    - I started with descriptions of victims, physical and clothing. Both Lyon girls were white, blonde, blue eyed, and fairly small in size. Young age.

    - Time frame and geography were next. I looked for cases nearby and in close time to the Lyon case. In particular, there were three girls who disappeared from Pennsylvania in May, June, and July 1975 near the PA/Maryland border. Also, the case of Kathy Lynn Beatty occurred on 24 July 1975 in Wheaton, Maryland only four mounths and four miles from when and where the Lyon sisters disappeared.

    - I looked at a lot of unsolved cases involving missing children and young adults. If this person had an effective way of hiding a body, he might have employed that same method before and after.

    - Looking at the possible tape recorder link, I tried to find other incidents where a device or trick might have been employed.

    - Shopping centers and parking lots played a part in the Lyon Case and so, I looked at other similar settings.

    - It is most likely that the abductor in the Lyon case had a vehicle. So, I looked at other disappearances of children who were out walking or away from home.

    - Double abductions were also of interest, due to the rarity and the fact that Sheila and Kate went missing together. There are several of these listed - both male and female victims. Two young boys disappeared in New Jersey in April 1975.

    - I also looked at various possible suspects who were in or near Maryland at the time. Then I considered possible cases in places where they had been.

    Although a case may have seemingly little to go on, you have to go with what you have.

    Coincidences DO occur and you have to realize that. There are probably a number of potential/viable suspects in the area at any given time. But there are many other times when you have to say "this is more than just coincidence".

    Try to put yourself into the mind of the abductor. He/she has certain likes and dislikes. Certain patterns, habits, ploys, schemes.

    There is much more that goes into it, but hopefully this will give you a few ideas.

  3. #33
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    Thank you Richard.
    Actually I got the idea to start a spreadsheet when I saw your summary of cases.
    I thought it'd be nice to have just a spreadsheet thread, no discussion, where we could all add to the spreadsheet and have an ongoing list/summary of similar victims of abductions/murders for everyone to analyze.

    Do you know how I can get a doc from my computer onto a thread here?
    Don't want to copy and paste because i might lose the format.
    I've seen it done in other forums, just not sure how.

    Thanks again for all the info, it gives me plenty to think on.
    Children don't stop dancing

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheLight View Post
    Do you know how I can get a doc from my computer onto a thread here? Don't want to copy and paste because i might lose the format. I've seen it done in other forums, just not sure how.
    For a specific spreadsheet format, you'd probably need some kind of tables set up with HTML. Unfortunately, HTML is turned off here at WS. Perhaps just creating a public Google spreadsheet and leaving the link here would work?

  5. #35
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    It's been mentioned that the Lyon case is the oldest unsolved case in Montgomery County. I just wanted to list some cases that are older and still unsolved in MD. They may or may not have a connection to this case just wanted to give them some fresh eyes.

    Kenneth Hager age 11, disappeared 4/9/47, Baltimore County

    Bob Boyes, age 9, disappeared 12/26/68, Calvert County

    Lori Peugot, age 2, disappeared 9/22/69 with her mother, Allegheny County

    George Barksdale, age 4, disappeared 4/21/69, Baltimore County
    Children don't stop dancing

  6. #36
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    Clarification...

    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheLight View Post
    It's been mentioned that the Lyon case is the oldest unsolved case in Montgomery County. ...
    Actually the case is the oldest Continuously Active unsolved case in Montgomery County. There are many other older cases which remain unsolved, but have become "Cold Cases" - that is that they were placed in an unsolved, but inactive status for one reason or other.

    While Websleuths listed the Lyon Case on their "Cold Case" forum for several years, it was always noted as being a continuously open/active case involving an "ongoing investigation".

    This could be of some interest to persons wishing to investigate things on their own regarding the Lyon sisters. A few years back, when information on the case was relayed to a website point of contact, that tip was relayed to Montgomery County Police.

    With no feedback from police, that person tried to obtain more information on his own. Obtaining more, he again contacted the Montgomery Police case officer, who in turn threatened to charge the website POC with "interfering in an ongoing investigation".

    I want to stress that the current case officers have not been that close-minded and have welcomed any and all information offered. But they have a job to do and the fact that this case is an "open investigation" could place it in somewhat of a different legal light than others considered to be closed, or cold cases.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Actually the case is the oldest Continuously Active unsolved case in Montgomery County. There are many other older cases which remain unsolved, but have become "Cold Cases" - that is that they were placed in an unsolved, but inactive status for one reason or other.

    While Websleuths listed the Lyon Case on their "Cold Case" forum for several years, it was always noted as being a continuously open/active case involving an "ongoing investigation".

    This could be of some interest to persons wishing to investigate things on their own regarding the Lyon sisters. A few years back, when information on the case was relayed to a website point of contact, that tip was relayed to Montgomery County Police.

    With no feedback from police, that person tried to obtain more information on his own. Obtaining more, he again contacted the Montgomery Police case officer, who in turn threatened to charge the website POC with "interfering in an ongoing investigation".

    I want to stress that the current case officers have not been that close-minded and have welcomed any and all information offered. But they have a job to do and the fact that this case is an "open investigation" could place it in somewhat of a different legal light than others considered to be closed, or cold cases.

    Thank you for the clarification. I misspoke when i stated the lyon case is known as "the oldest unsolved case in Mont.Co." When i stated this I meant of this nature i.e. unsolved missing children's case. It is my understanding that this is true. If not, I have misspoke again and I apologize.

    I assumed the nature of the case would be understood because I went on to list other older unsolved missing children's cases. But I should know what happens when I assume

    And while I recognize the importance of the differentiation between active and cold case from an investigative standpoint, I wasn't making a distinction with these cases because I was simply mentioning that there are other children missing from MD for much too long.
    Children don't stop dancing

  8. #38
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    Missing children cases...

    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheLight View Post
    ... I wasn't making a distinction with these cases because I was simply mentioning that there are other children missing from MD for much too long.
    I agree with you on this point. Regardless of the amount of evidence or the status of any investigation, missing children cases are at the top of my list.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherof5 View Post
    Read their case in the cold case forum and let me know what you think.It seems like the married girl(Mary Rachel)has a sister that knows something and won't take a ploygrah.Also, her brother thinks she's alive and visits her hometown every year around the holidays.
    Some others and myself have been working the Ft. Worth missing three case. The info you have may be incorrect. The sister took a polygraph and was supposedly cleared. Having not seen the actual results, I must use "supposedly" as a qualifier.

    The brother's story is so far fetched it's ridiculous.

    As of today, Princess Rose and I think Debardeleben is most likely the killer. Too many similarities between this one and the Ft. Worth case. Also, Debardeleben was in Ft. Worth. Those girls have never been found either. They also disappeared around 4PM or shortly afterwards because by 6PM their parents were at the mall looking for them.

    We haven't had much to go on because there was simply no evidence gathered that ever definitively led to a particular suspect. If there was ever a killer who could have lured 3 girls from a mall 2 days before Christmas in the mash of people last minute shopping it would've been Debardeleben, IMO.

    Sorry, I jumped ahead and posted this before reading the second page of this thread, but will leave it as it stands because the important point is I think these 2 cases are definitely related.
    Last edited by justthinkin; 07-25-2009 at 09:53 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by justthinkin View Post
    Some others and myself have been working the Ft. Worth missing three case. The info you have may be incorrect. The sister took a polygraph and was supposedly cleared. Having not seen the actual results, I must use "supposedly" as a qualifier.

    The brother's story is so far fetched it's ridiculous.

    As of today, Princess Rose and I think Debardeleben is most likely the killer. Too many similarities between this one and the Ft. Worth case. Also, Debardeleben was in Ft. Worth. Those girls have never been found either. They also disappeared around 4PM or shortly afterwards because by 6PM their parents were at the mall looking for them.

    We haven't had much to go on because there was simply no evidence gathered that ever definitively led to a particular suspect. If there was ever a killer who could have lured 3 girls from a mall 2 days before Christmas in the mash of people last minute shopping it would've been Debardeleben, IMO.

    Sorry, I jumped ahead and posted this before reading the second page of this thread, but will leave it as it stands because the important point is I think these 2 cases are definitely related.
    Yes, STL pointed out to me that the sister did take a polygraph.I had read that she didn't,don't remember where though.


  11. #41
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    Anyone?????????????


  12. #42
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    Sounds familiar...

    Quote Originally Posted by Motherof5 View Post

    There are some similarities between Pamela's case and that of the Lyon sisters. She was white 5 ft 2in and 105 pounds, just like Sheila Lyon.

    She was about 3 years older than Sheila. She was also last seen at a Maryland Shopping Mall but her abduction and murder took place five years before the Lyon Girls went missing.

    Anne Arundel County is due east and adjacent to Prince Georges County.

  13. #43
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    Richard,have you ever heard of Pamela's case?

  14. #44
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    Pamela Lynn Conyers, 16, murdered 20 Oct 1970, Anne Arundel Co. MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Motherof5 View Post
    Richard,have you ever heard of Pamela's case?


    Pamela Lynn Conyers

    On October 20, 1970, the body of PAMELA LYNN CONYERS was discovered in a wooded area located between the eastbound and westbound lanes of Maryland Route 177 extended, which at the time was under construction (currently Route 100 near the Waterford Road/Route 648 overpass).

    PAMELA LYNN CONYERS was a white female, 16 years of age, 5' 2" tall, weighing approximately 105 pounds. On October 16, 1970, Pamela attended the homecoming bonfire/pep rally at Glen Burnie High School. Later that evening, Pamela drove her family's 1967 Dodge Monaco to the Harundale Mall in Glen Burnie, Maryland. This is the last place that Pamela was seen alive.

    The case is still open and is being actively investigated by detectives from the Anne Arundel County Police Department's Homicide Unit, Cold Case Squad. Detectives are seeking information from additional witnesses.

    Anyone who has information regarding the homicide of Pamela Lynn Conyers, or anyone with information pertaining to her death or pertaining to the identification of witnesses or suspects, please call:

    Sergeant Keith Clark
    Homicide Unit
    (410) 222-3456

    Or give anonymous tips through:

    Metro Crime Stoppers
    Toll Free 1-866-7LOCKUP (756-2587)
    E-mail: www.tipsubmit.com
    Text Message: Send the letters “MCS” plus your message to 274637
    Last edited by Richard; 12-13-2009 at 10:19 AM.

  15. #45
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    Cynthia was 18...but at 5'1" and 90 lbs....she was just a bit smaller than Sheila.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...1aV_story.html

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