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  1. #1
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    A question about the alleged sightings


    Ok I have a question about the 2 alleged sightings.

    1. We have sighting number one by Jane Tanner. A friend of the McCanns who has changed her description of the said "person" and what she saw the guy holding even and ..when asked by the Pjs she didnt correctly say where Gerry and Jezx were standing. In addition the two men that were there have both said she wasnt seen .. even though it would IMO have been impossible to miss her. Not witholding the fact also she was wearing flip flops which tend to make a noise.

    2. We have sighting number 2 by Martin Smith and his family. These people allegedly have no connection to the McCanns or there friends and therefore have no reason to lie. Martin Smith alleges he saw a guy down by the beach holding a child that appeared to be sleeping. He wasnt entirely sure of the time. After seeing pictures of Gerry walking down the runway at East Midlands he contacted police and told them that the man he had seen with the child down by the beach resembled Gerry McCann. Mr Smith was due to go to Portugal about this to see Mr Amaral however..Amaral was taken off ..

    So we have two "witnesses". One with every reason to lie..and one with no one reason to lie. So why is it only appeals are put out for the person seen by Jane Tanner and not the one seen by Martin Smith? Why are they trying to pretend that that sighting didnt happen? Surely if they want people to come forward..they would appeal for the man Smith to see to come forward also wouldnt they if only so they can eliminate him?

    Why...as members of the public..is it important for us to believe Tanner over Smith? Wouldnt Smith come over as more credible? They are there now to do a reconstruction...why not have Martin Smith there?

    Questions questions .. .
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


    John Morgan: I can tell.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    Ok I have a question about the 2 alleged sightings.

    1. We have sighting number one by Jane Tanner. A friend of the McCanns who has changed her description of the said "person" and what she saw the guy holding even and ..when asked by the Pjs she didnt correctly say where Gerry and Jezx were standing. In addition the two men that were there have both said she wasnt seen .. even though it would IMO have been impossible to miss her. Not witholding the fact also she was wearing flip flops which tend to make a noise.

    2. We have sighting number 2 by Martin Smith and his family. These people allegedly have no connection to the McCanns or there friends and therefore have no reason to lie. Martin Smith alleges he saw a guy down by the beach holding a child that appeared to be sleeping. He wasnt entirely sure of the time. After seeing pictures of Gerry walking down the runway at East Midlands he contacted police and told them that the man he had seen with the child down by the beach resembled Gerry McCann. Mr Smith was due to go to Portugal about this to see Mr Amaral however..Amaral was taken off ..

    So we have two "witnesses". One with every reason to lie..and one with no one reason to lie. So why is it only appeals are put out for the person seen by Jane Tanner and not the one seen by Martin Smith? Why are they trying to pretend that that sighting didnt happen? Surely if they want people to come forward..they would appeal for the man Smith to see to come forward also wouldnt they if only so they can eliminate him?

    Why...as members of the public..is it important for us to believe Tanner over Smith? Wouldnt Smith come over as more credible? They are there now to do a reconstruction...why not have Martin Smith there?

    Questions questions .. .
    Do you know for a fact how the Portuguese police viewed this sighting?
    Did it fit with other witness statements? This is very important. Because if you have a dozen people who say that at 10.05pm Gerry McCann was with them and one person saying he saw him somewhere else, then by the law of probability, that the one person was mistaken. ESPECIALLY when (as you correctly point out) this man did not know Gerry McCann personally and could therefore have been mistaken.

    Pople who know Gerry McCann would be far less likely to have been mistaken about seeing him.

    I know this guy went to the papers, but did he go to the Portuguese police? If yes, why didn't the police didn't place more importance on his "witness testimony"? Unless if is for the reasons I swuggested above.

    10.05 is a very crucial time in the timeline because that was approximately when kate raised the alarm about Madeleine being missing and people were reacting to it. Gerry was back at the table then. If the Irishman had claimed to have seen Gery carrying a child towards the beach earlier on - before 8.30 or at the time Gerry was known to have gone back to the apartment, it might be considered more noteworthy.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




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  3. #3
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    Here is an article about the Irish family sighting:-

    PRIVATE detectives hunting for Madeleine McCann are to quiz an Irish family who may have been the last to see her alive.

    SNIP

    The family, from Drogheda, Co Louth, believe they saw the man taking the sleeping tot down to the beach at the Portuguese resort.
    SNIP

    They flew home to Ireland the next day, but when the times of Maddie’s abduction were revealed, the family remembered seeing a man, 5ft 7in to 5ft 9in tall and dressed in beige, carrying the child.

    Significantly the description matches that given by Jane Tanner, 37, a friend of the McCanns.

    Mr Smith, who has already spoken to Portuguese cops over the sighting, said yesterday: “I’d talk to anyone to move this investigation on. I think about Maddie every day.”

    He added: “I found the Portuguese cops not to be the most efficient bunch.”
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...icle643970.ece

    Now - who's not getting their story straight this time?

    Isabella - could you provide your source for this so that we can compare and discuss the differences?
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




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  4. #4
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    According to an anti-Mccann website which I won't link to, the Irishman said that the reason he thought the man loooked like Gerry McCann was because Gerry McCann lowered his head in a video he saw on TV and the man carrying the child also lowered his head.

    WTF????

    ROFL! You couldn't make it up! (I personally don't believe it but it does help to understand some of the logic I've read :-))
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




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  5. #5
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    ANother report about this witness. No mention of him thinking it was Gery McCann!:-

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sky...20080641299179

    "My eldest son, Peter, my youngest daughter, Aoife, and I then flew to Luz to make a statement. They didn't seem to be the most efficient police you ever came across - and that was the last time we had any contact with the investigation.

    "I don't know if this information will help the McCanns, but anything we can do to help try to solve it, we will.

    "We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News and we really felt quite helpless. We had two grandchildren with us at the time and it had a terrible effect on them - they all wanted to sleep in the same room as us."
    But Mr Smith is certain that the man he and his family saw that night was not Robert Murat, who is still officially an "arguido" in the Madeleine McCann investigation.

    "I told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat - I think I would have recognised him because I'd met him several times previously.

    "He was wearing beige trousers and a darker top. We all put him in his early 40s and I didn't think he was Portuguese."

    Mr Smith's sighting is similar to the one reported by Jane Tanner, a friend of the McCann family.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





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  6. #6
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    Martin Smith, 58, on holiday at the time, was interviewed by detectives in Portugal and his native Ireland but the line of inquiry was later discarded.
    Four months after his initial statement Mr Smith contacted the police to say he had seen Madeleine's parents arriving back in Britain on BBC News, and the way Mr McCann carried one of the couple's twins reminded him of the man he had seen in Portugal.

    When detectives replayed video footage of the couple's arrival at East Midlands airport, the witness said he was 60-80% sure that the man he passed was Gerry McCann.
    But this was later dismissed by prosecutors because at the time of the reported sighting, shortly before 2200, Gerry McCann was sitting in the Ocean Club's tapas bar with other members of his party.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7543064.stm

    Crucially, this four month time gap coincides with the dog alert stories.
    This is only my opinion

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles View Post
    Do you know for a fact how the Portuguese police viewed this sighting?
    Did it fit with other witness statements? This is very important. Because if you have a dozen people who say that at 10.05pm Gerry McCann was with them and one person saying he saw him somewhere else, then by the law of probability, that the one person was mistaken. ESPECIALLY when (as you correctly point out) this man did not know Gerry McCann personally and could therefore have been mistaken.

    Pople who know Gerry McCann would be far less likely to have been mistaken about seeing him.

    I know this guy went to the papers, but did he go to the Portuguese police? If yes, why didn't the police didn't place more importance on his "witness testimony"? Unless if is for the reasons I swuggested above.

    10.05 is a very crucial time in the timeline because that was approximately when kate raised the alarm about Madeleine being missing and people were reacting to it. Gerry was back at the table then. If the Irishman had claimed to have seen Gery carrying a child towards the beach earlier on - before 8.30 or at the time Gerry was known to have gone back to the apartment, it might be considered more noteworthy.
    Yes he went to the Pj. Amaral was going to have him there..and then he got replaced. Metado also went to see him and apparently his story changed after that. How true that is i dont know.

    For the record he said he saw the guy 9.50ish onwards.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


    John Morgan: I can tell.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles View Post
    Here is an article about the Irish family sighting:-




    SNIP



    SNIP



    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...icle643970.ece

    Now - who's not getting their story straight this time?

    Isabella - could you provide your source for this so that we can compare and discuss the differences?

    Discuss what difference i have no idea what your talking about.

    The fact is though..the witness you believe..originally said the guy carried a bundle covered by a blanket..this over months turned into a child with Madeleienes Pjs on. And somehow..she saw all the legs of the girl..when to start with she had clamed the man had the bundle covered by a blanket. Now originally the supposed kidnapper looked like a eggman...now he looks Portugese...so...i dont get how the description resembles the one given by Martin Smith. Gerry doesnt look remotely foreign.

    Oh and your linking to the sun etc..i thought you didnt trust the trashy tabloids?

    For the record..the stories about the dog hits came out the beginning of August/end July. The McCanns didnt come home for another month after that..so no it wasnt all at the same time at all.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


    John Morgan: I can tell.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles View Post
    ANother report about this witness. No mention of him thinking it was Gery McCann!:-

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sky...20080641299179

    So? You linked another report that he DID think it was Gerry McaCann. In fact that he was 60-80% sure it was him.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


    John Morgan: I can tell.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    So? You linked another report that he DID think it was Gerry McaCann. In fact that he was 60-80% sure it was him.
    Isabella, the FACT that you have yet again FAILED to provide your own source and that you have SELECTED that part of the several sources which which (appears to) suit your agenda I provided speaks volumes.

    I linked to multiple accounts of this story in which Martin Smith did NOT say he thought it was Gerry McCann.

    In each of these accounts - and the SkyNews one appears to be an interview with Mr Smith - he was critical of the Portuguese police and said he'd do whatever it took to find Madeleine.

    Note I also linked to the one article which I found where he says he now DID think it could be Gerry McCann he saw FOUR MONTHS AFTER HE FIRST REPORTED IT. I didn't only post sources which suit my opinion. Now, don't tell me Martin Smith only saw Gerry McCann for the first time on TV four months AFTER madeleine was taken? Why wait till then to decide that it "could" have been Gery McCann he saw? The "coincidence" is that his change of heart seems to come after the news about the sniffer dogs. He was a potentially important witness for the Intruder theory.

    Fortunately for the McCanns, the Portuguese police have disregarded it because it doesn't fit with the facts. Too many credible witnesses saw Gerry McCann at the hotel at the time Mr Smith saw the man at the beach.

    It wasn't rocket science to work this one out.

    And I do wish you would provide sources.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    Discuss what difference i have no idea what your talking about.

    The fact is though..the witness you believe..originally said the guy carried a bundle covered by a blanket..this over months turned into a child with Madeleienes Pjs on. And somehow..she saw all the legs of the girl..when to start with she had clamed the man had the bundle covered by a blanket. Now originally the supposed kidnapper looked like a eggman...now he looks Portugese...so...i dont get how the description resembles the one given by Martin Smith. Gerry doesnt look remotely foreign.

    Oh and your linking to the sun etc..i thought you didnt trust the trashy tabloids?

    For the record..the stories about the dog hits came out the beginning of August/end July. The McCanns didnt come home for another month after that..so no it wasnt all at the same time at all.
    Of course it coincided time-wise. The BBC article says he contacted the police FOUR MONTHS after his initial report to say... That's within a couple of weeks of the sniffer dogs stories.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles View Post
    Isabella, the FACT that you have yet again FAILED to provide your own source and that you have SELECTED that part of the several sources which which (appears to) suit your agenda I provided speaks volumes.

    I linked to multiple accounts of this story in which Martin Smith did NOT say he thought it was Gerry McCann.

    In each of these accounts - and the SkyNews one appears to be an interview with Mr Smith - he was critical of the Portuguese police and said he'd do whatever it took to find Madeleine.

    Note I also linked to the one article which I found where he says he now DID think it could be Gerry McCann he saw FOUR MONTHS AFTER HE FIRST REPORTED IT. I didn't only post sources which suit my opinion. Now, don't tell me Martin Smith only saw Gerry McCann for the first time on TV four months AFTER madeleine was taken? Why wait till then to decide that it "could" have been Gery McCann he saw? The "coincidence" is that his change of heart seems to come after the news about the sniffer dogs. He was a potentially important witness for the Intruder theory.

    Fortunately for the McCanns, the Portuguese police have disregarded it because it doesn't fit with the facts. Too many credible witnesses saw Gerry McCann at the hotel at the time Mr Smith saw the man at the beach.

    It wasn't rocket science to work this one out.

    And I do wish you would provide sources.
    You wanted a source stating Martin Smith thought it was Gerry he saw. This also explains..why he took so long to realise it could be Gerry he saw. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html . This is information from the files and not some tabloid newspaper. I hope that satisfies you
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


    John Morgan: I can tell.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    You wanted a source stating Martin Smith thought it was Gerry he saw. This also explains..why he took so long to realise it could be Gerry he saw. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html . This is information from the files and not some tabloid newspaper. I hope that satisfies you
    A source!
    This is only my opinion

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  14. #14
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    In summary

    It would appear that Martin Smith's eyewitness testimony :-

    a) was consistent with Jane Tanner's
    b) was discredited as being Gerry McCann byt the PJs on the grounds that Gerry McCann was known to be elsewhere at the time of the sighting.

    Eye witness identifications are notoriously unreliable. The only thing that is likely to be reliable about Jane Tanner and Martin Smith's witness statements are that they probably did see a man carrying a child. That is the sort of thing you would remember correctly. Descriptions of the man however are not likely to be terribly accurate. For example, if you saw a car driving past with a flag on its roof, you might remember the flag but be unable to say what typen of car it had been.

    http://www.visualexpert.com/Resource...essmemory.html
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





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  15. #15
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    Regarding Jane Tanners "alleged sighting"

    As people know..i have stated..that originally Jane alleged she saw a man carrying something covered in a blanket..which may or may not have been a child. Over the months this description changed..to it was definetly a child...and she could even see her pyjamas and the blanket had disappeared. We also know..that Gerry and Jez said she wasnt there and that she didnt place them where they in fact was.

    I have been told many times on this board...that she didnt change her story..

    Hmm ... http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

    Decide for yourselves
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


    John Morgan: I can tell.

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