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  1. #76
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    I would. This is going to sound weird but I have this thing about 'touching history'. I love history and every time I have visited a historical house or other location and I walk the floor or touch a door I think about the fact that I am walking in the very place and touching the very thing that these historical figures did and it gives me goosebumps. Now Lizzy's historical significance may be a little on the macabre side but I think I would still buy her house if I had 650k lying around.


    "Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler".

    Albert Einstein


    “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”.

    Mahatma Gandhi

  2. #77
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    Smile

    I feel the exact same way Jack!

  3. #78
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    My husband and I stayed there when it was first a b&B sometime around 98 or 99. I meant to dig up my pics (which aren't that great, since we didn't have a digital camera then, so they're scans) and post them on one of the other threads. I'll have to see if I can get them over later this morning, after the kids go off to school.

    We stayed in the guest room, where Uncle John was staying at the time of the murders, and where Abby was killed. Big mistake staying in that room if you want a good nights sleep lol.
    “Peace is not the product of terror or fear. Peace is not the silence of cemeteries. Peace is not the silent result of violent repression. Peace is the generous, tranquil contribution of all to the good of all." -Abp Oscar Romero

  4. #79
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    Ohoh wait, this is Maplecroft, Lizzie's home later in life? That'll teach me to read the links, haha.

    I'll have to go read it now, as the guy who USED to own the house at one time was a friend of my father's (not sure if it's the same guy, I'll go check). He had some stories. Also, he was a weird, creepy dude himself.

    Bbl after I read lol.

    Edit- Yep, same guy.
    “Peace is not the product of terror or fear. Peace is not the silence of cemeteries. Peace is not the silent result of violent repression. Peace is the generous, tranquil contribution of all to the good of all." -Abp Oscar Romero

  5. #80
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    Dec 2003
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    I just tonite saw a tv show about this and decided to google. Hardly any sites make much mention of andrew's coat on the back of the couch. He would not have put it there. Only the killer would have. Most people seemed to think lizzie may have worn it to shield her dress from blood but i think it was to somewhat protect the corner of the couch and pssibly the sleeves of her dress. Also it is covering the wooden trim of the couch where the arm might hit while using the hatchet at such an angle. Only lizzie would have been able to know her parents habits and be able to strike so quickly without a struggle. Also lizzie seemed to be extremely manipulative, resentful and jealous. Shd despised abby so she should have scoffed and ridiculed abby's notions of poison instead of running around setti g up a motive.

  6. #81
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    I just saw a show in which a modern forensics team examined evidence and got results from luminol that showed the killer had washed during the half hour it took the police to arrive. They concluded that it was indeed Lizzie that did the killing.

  7. #82
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    I have always thought Lizzie did indeed murder them both. I felt she did it because her father was molesting her and her sister. I also think Lizzie killed them out of greed. Lizzie didn't want her fathers money to be left to her stepmother. I feel Lizzie did it mainly to stop her father from molesting her.

  8. #83
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    I think Lizzie did it too. I have often thought she wanted her own style of life and couldn't do it living at home. Her father wouldn't have given her money to live as she was accustomed and her sexuality was being suppressed at home. Her father may well have been molesting her and her sister and her stepmother wasn't popular with Lizzie. Lots of reasons and motives.

  9. #84
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    120 years ago today
    This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.


    Stan Reid

  10. #85
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    Aug 2012
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    Bridget Sullivan

    I've tried to locate a record for Bridget Sullivan in Fall River but the 1890 US census was destroyed and other records online turn up nothing.

    Always referred to as Bridget Sullivan in the newspaper articles about the trial at the time, according to an online news source she moved out west to Montana and in 1905 married a John Sullivan, also an Irish immigrant ??

    There is a listing for Bridget and John Sullivan in Anaconda Montana in 1910, no children just the two of them aged 40 and 41.

    Just a coincidence? Not very common for people to marry having the same last name but it does happen I suppose.


  11. #86
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    This is a fascinating case and I'm honestly not sure what to think. Even after reading through this thread and learning things I didn't know about, I still don't know who I think did it or why.

    There are a few points I'd like to make.

    Regarding the dress Lizzie put in an oven, IMO that could work either way. If she was innocent she may have been afraid of getting in trouble because of it. At the time, there were no DNA analysis techniques as there are now. As to how it got there, it really could have been menstrual blood, or when she found her father's body and rushed to it, some blood from the scene may have gotten on her.

    I don't think that cleaning a sealskin coat during a heat wave is necessarily strange, she may have decided to clean it when she wasn't in need of wearing it so it would be ready when the cold came around. It seems odd that if Lizzie wanted to kill her family that she would try it twice in such a short amount of time AND using such different methods. The description of the axe murders makes it sound like the killer was angry or inexperienced, not someone coldly planning a murder.

    Something I've thought is that maybe the contradictory testimony could be due to her hiding something else. If she had a secret girlfriend, maybe the two were meeting at the time and Lizzie obviously couldn't say so without getting in trouble for it.

    It may also have been the laudanum. The fact that she was calm could be due to laudanum or, if she seemed calm before, due to shock.

    Can someone elaborate on the theory that the uncle did it? Time frame, etc. It doesn't seem impossible but I don't know much about it. The fact that he remembered a multi-digit number is odd but it could just be that he was bored and happened to notice it, had a good memory... any number of things. I wonder if the driver was ever questioned, IMO he'd remember an unfamiliar face boarding, especially on a day where I assume many people would avoid going out altogether.


    Everything in my posts is just my opinion unless it's a quote. ||| please don't quote my posts outside of this site without my permission.
    I'm no longer very active on WS due to lack of time, if you'd like to keep in touch feel free to PM me though.

  12. #87
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    Some info gleaned from the lawyer's journals:

    "Before Abby was photographed, the bed was moved and her body was “rolled over and set up” while authorities examined her head....he found her “lying perfectly still with both arms under her.” He said her head was a “couple feet from the mop-board,” better known as the baseboard today"

    and

    "Charles Sawyer, a sign painter who lived at 78 Second St., was put on guard duty by police officer George A. Allen to watch the body of Abby Borden. He told Jennings that a yard stick lay next to Abby, and about a foot of her body was “almost under the bed. According to the journal notes: “Think she was running to get away from the party, away from the door, as if she had run around the bed as far as she could.”

    Sawyer told Jennings she was likely using the yard stick to smooth over the made bed and had it in her hand to go out the door."

    "Martins said this leads the reader to believe that Abby did see the assailant and was trying to get away. He said that perhaps her running away means it was someone unknown."


    So, Abby was not calm and collected as she was killed.


    http://www.heraldnews.com/news/x2734...en-case?zc_p=1

    Everything is MOO and I am always willing to be wrong!


    October 2013 marked 60 years since Evelyn Hartley's violent kidnapping while babysitting.

    We need fresh eyes in the case - please visit us in
    Evelyn's thread!

  13. #88
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    BetteDavisEyes is offline "Fasten your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy night."
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    Premieres Saturday, January 25 on Lifetime:

    8:00PM (EST) Lizzie Borden Took An Ax (2014)

    On a scorching, hot summer day in 1892 in Fall River, Massachusetts, Lizzie Borden returns home to the house she shares with her father Andrew, stepmother Abby and sister Emma. But, unlike any normal day, Lizzie encounters the bloody scene of her parents violently murdered. Police quickly question multiple suspects in town, but evidence keeps pointing back to the Borden’s youngest daughter Lizzie, the seemingly wholesome Sunday school teacher, as the prime suspect. Lizzie’s lawyer, Andrew Jennings, proclaims her innocence arguing that it is inconceivable a woman could commit the heinous crime of brutally murdering her family with an ax. Or is it? Lizzie is put on trial for the murders, both in the courtroom and in the press, sparking a widespread debate about her culpability. As the case rages on, the courtroom proceedings fuel an enormous amount of sensationalized stories and headlines in newspapers throughout the country, forever leaving Lizzie Borden’s name in infamy...

    http://www.mylifetime.com/movies/liz...den-took-an-ax

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes View Post
    Premieres Saturday, January 25 on Lifetime:

    8:00PM (EST) Lizzie Borden Took An Ax (2014)

    On a scorching, hot summer day in 1892 in Fall River, Massachusetts, Lizzie Borden returns home to the house she shares with her father Andrew, stepmother Abby and sister Emma. But, unlike any normal day, Lizzie encounters the bloody scene of her parents violently murdered. Police quickly question multiple suspects in town, but evidence keeps pointing back to the Borden’s youngest daughter Lizzie, the seemingly wholesome Sunday school teacher, as the prime suspect. Lizzie’s lawyer, Andrew Jennings, proclaims her innocence arguing that it is inconceivable a woman could commit the heinous crime of brutally murdering her family with an ax. Or is it? Lizzie is put on trial for the murders, both in the courtroom and in the press, sparking a widespread debate about her culpability. As the case rages on, the courtroom proceedings fuel an enormous amount of sensationalized stories and headlines in newspapers throughout the country, forever leaving Lizzie Borden’s name in infamy...

    http://www.mylifetime.com/movies/liz...den-took-an-ax
    I am actually looking forward to this movie. Although I haven't seen her performance, Christina Ricci seems like a good choice. She certainly resembles her more than Elizabeth Montgomery (please tell me I am not the only other person old enough to remember her excellent performance as Lizzie).

    I beleive Lizzie committed the murders. There is a good layout of the house in one of the books written by John Douglas (last one of his I will ever purchase, but the diagram was interesting). Looking at that I was even more convinced than ever that she did it. I just don't see, with the layout, that a stranger entered that house, murdered two people and was not seen by Lizzie or Bridgett. That, combined with all the other circumstantial evidence just points to Lizzie IMO.

  15. #90
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    BetteDavisEyes is offline "Fasten your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy night."
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    Quote Originally Posted by chlban View Post
    I am actually looking forward to this movie. Although I haven't seen her performance, Christina Ricci seems like a good choice. She certainly resembles her more than Elizabeth Montgomery (please tell me I am not the only other person old enough to remember her excellent performance as Lizzie).

    I beleive Lizzie committed the murders. There is a good layout of the house in one of the books written by John Douglas (last one of his I will ever purchase, but the diagram was interesting). Looking at that I was even more convinced than ever that she did it. I just don't see, with the layout, that a stranger entered that house, murdered two people and was not seen by Lizzie or Bridgett. That, combined with all the other circumstantial evidence just points to Lizzie IMO.
    I love the Lizzie Borden movie with Elizabeth Montgomery, but I think that Christina Ricci will do the role justice. DH and I will be in a hotel tomorrow night and hope that we get Lifetime. I will be disappointed if I can't see the premiere.

    http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...#axzz2rKfZIKKM

    When we did a Canada/New England cruise a few years ago, we were going to rent a car and drive to Fall River to visit the Borden home that is now a Bed & Breakfast/historical site. Guests actually stay in the house where Lizzie hacked her parents to death Anyhoo, when we found out how long it would take to drive to the house from Boston, we decided against it.

    http://lizzie-borden.com/index.php/a...the-rooms.html

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