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  1. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    12,317
    I do hope we find out later that cadaver dogs were at the church and especially at the opening to underneath the church. At least it would tell them if there had been a body there.
    Thoughts and prayers for the people of Paris and all of France!

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,189
    I wonder if the suitcase was gone before or after Sandra went missing. If it were right before, that would make the crime even more premeditated.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    893
    Quote Originally Posted by chicagofa13 View Post
    Fred W, a member of the church says the luggage was to be part of a rummage sale and was stolen the day Sandra went missing.

    (IIRC other posters here say Connie L has since said it was hers (?) to be donated to the rummage sale. I don't have a link for that, so maybe someone else can help me out!!)

    http://www.kcra.com/news/19121818/detail.html

    Williams said that the mysterious black suitcase Cantu was found in was

    reported stolen by another congregation member the same day Cantu disappeared.

    "That suitcase was to go to the church for a rummage sale with some stuff in it and the person put it somewhere, either in the back of a car somewhere.
    But anyway, when she came back out the suitcase was gone," Williams said.
    chicago, I read Williams had a rummage sale the day after the child went missing, but the church did NOT!

    ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’..
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds...What I write here, are my theories, speculation, opinions & deductive reasoning...not to be taken as 'fact'..

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    893
    Quote Originally Posted by lonetraveler View Post
    ---
    This is really strange to me. Who knew that the suitcase was put into the car?
    It seems to me that the murderer would have had to know about the suitcase.

    IMO, the murderer would not have killed Cantu and then walked around the Mobile Home Park
    looking for something to hide her in and coincidentally found a suitcase just sitting in a car waiting to be found just when a little girl needed to be hidden and disposed of in an irrigation pond.

    I'm just not buying it.
    Whoever took the little girl knew exactly where to find the suitcase and did not have to look very far for a way to hide Cantu....
    lonetraveler, Bingo!!!

    Did you hear:
    It was said on the local news a few minutes ago that the KIA Suv may be involved in the crime. The owner of the vehicle is the grand daughter of the Pastor. ...Channel 2 San Francisco.

    ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’..
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds...What I write here, are my theories, speculation, opinions & deductive reasoning...not to be taken as 'fact'..

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    4
    I am not in Tracy but about 30 or so miles away.
    I have a close friend located about 5 Miles from the Orchard Estates mobile park. This case has REALLY shocked all of us in the S.F. bay are...
    I wanted to share some facts about the church that were given to me from my friend in Tracy. I am not sure if any of this has been discussed..but here it goes
    The Clover Road baptist Church is located Directly by 205, and is visible from the freeway. She said she has passed it several times and said you would NOT assume it was a church if it wasn't for the sign. Another interesting tidbit she shared, Fridays tends to be the worst day for traffic on 205. Stop and go if not stopped altogether. Apparently while in Traffic, if you are stopped you have a nice view of the church.. would be interesting to know if anyone did see people coming and going on the day of Sandra's disappearance.
    http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Tr...st+Clover+Road

    . While she was doing research on all of this (not a websleuther but should be) she found this http://svng.com/tracy/
    Not sure if this website has been seen/found by anyone else on this site.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    I'm a Southern Girl
    Posts
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterylover View Post
    chicago, I read Williams had a rummage sale the day after the child went missing, but the church did NOT!
    could you provide a link? that seems very suspicious!!

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    24,159

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Bee View Post
    I am not in Tracy but about 30 or so miles away.
    I have a close friend located about 5 Miles from the Orchard Estates mobile park. This case has REALLY shocked all of us in the S.F. bay are...
    I wanted to share some facts about the church that were given to me from my friend in Tracy. I am not sure if any of this has been discussed..but here it goes
    The Clover Road baptist Church is located Directly by 205, and is visible from the freeway. She said she has passed it several times and said you would NOT assume it was a church if it wasn't for the sign. Another interesting tidbit she shared, Fridays tends to be the worst day for traffic on 205. Stop and go if not stopped altogether. Apparently while in Traffic, if you are stopped you have a nice view of the church.. would be interesting to know if anyone did see people coming and going on the day of Sandra's disappearance.
    http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Tr...st+Clover+Road

    . While she was doing research on all of this (not a websleuther but should be) she found this http://svng.com/tracy/
    Not sure if this website has been seen/found by anyone else on this site.
    Welcome Bee to WS. You're probably around me...
    This is the year to locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin NamUs MP#876 and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff NamUs MP#6410 and bring them home to their families!

    Parents watch your children. Free-range parenting leads to more child victims.

    Cruelty to humans begins with cruelty to animals.

    I believe in closure, not forgiveness. I'm also unapologetically judgemental.

    JeSuisJuif
    JeSuisCharlie


  8. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    631
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee View Post
    I am not in Tracy but about 30 or so miles away.
    I have a close friend located about 5 Miles from the Orchard Estates mobile park. This case has REALLY shocked all of us in the S.F. bay are...
    I wanted to share some facts about the church that were given to me from my friend in Tracy. I am not sure if any of this has been discussed..but here it goes
    The Clover Road baptist Church is located Directly by 205, and is visible from the freeway. She said she has passed it several times and said you would NOT assume it was a church if it wasn't for the sign. Another interesting tidbit she shared, Fridays tends to be the worst day for traffic on 205. Stop and go if not stopped altogether. Apparently while in Traffic, if you are stopped you have a nice view of the church.. would be interesting to know if anyone did see people coming and going on the day of Sandra's disappearance.
    http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Tr...st+Clover+Road

    . While she was doing research on all of this (not a websleuther but should be) she found this http://svng.com/tracy/
    Not sure if this website has been seen/found by anyone else on this site.
    Thanks for the information about the traffic. I don't believe it was posted before that it was stop and go with a view of the church. That is awesome news, and I pray some of those drivers call LE and report what they saw!

    About the website, I've been meaning to go looking for a post from the individual who runs it so we could bring it into this thread...so thanks for giving me the push! It was originally posted back in the General Discussion Thread #6, before we got to "stretch our legs" here. (Thanks, mods!!!)

    FWIW, she is a new WS member, this is her only post, and Admin has not verified who she claims to be. However, no one disagreed with her claim when she posted, and her post seems sincere and consistent with the tone of the website. (I read a bit on the website and they ask people to "Speak the truth in love" and they seem to be about healing the offended rather than bashing the offending.)

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...&postcount=295



    Below is the content of that post (sorry, I couldn't figure out how to quote two different posts so I just copied hers):

    Clover Road Baptist Church
    Hi, everyone...

    I'm new here. I'm the moderator of a site called www.sgmsurvivors.com, and I noticed that today we have received a number of hits from this board. A user posted information that linked Clover Road Baptist Church to the organization called Sovereign Grace Ministries that is the subject of the site that I moderate.

    I haven't read all the posts here, so I don't know if this has already come up, but I just want to clarify that Clover Road Baptist Church has no connection to Sovereign Grace Ministries. Yes, Clover Road did at one point merge with another congregation that had "Sovereign Grace" in its name, but there has never been any affiliation between those churches and SGM.

    I realize that this is probably old news and not a big deal, but I thought I'd post this info in case anyone was still under the impression that the issues discussed over at sgmsurvivors (our site) would have any relation to the investigation of Clover Road Baptist Church. They don't.

    Thanks, and blessings to all. My heart is sad over the loss of Sandra!

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Valley, CA
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee View Post
    I am not in Tracy but about 30 or so miles away.
    I have a close friend located about 5 Miles from the Orchard Estates mobile park. This case has REALLY shocked all of us in the S.F. bay are...
    I wanted to share some facts about the church that were given to me from my friend in Tracy. I am not sure if any of this has been discussed..but here it goes
    The Clover Road baptist Church is located Directly by 205, and is visible from the freeway. She said she has passed it several times and said you would NOT assume it was a church if it wasn't for the sign. Another interesting tidbit she shared, Fridays tends to be the worst day for traffic on 205. Stop and go if not stopped altogether. Apparently while in Traffic, if you are stopped you have a nice view of the church.. would be interesting to know if anyone did see people coming and going on the day of Sandra's disappearance.
    http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Tr...st+Clover+Road
    Exactly! I live in Sacramento, and oftentimes drive through Tracy on my way to visit my parents in the South Bay. In fact, we just drove down here on Tuesday and satisfied my thought that yes, it is right off the freeway, you can see the church and even the side of the MHP while on 205. I about lost my lunch driving by there. And, that traffic can be horrendous at that hour, it would seem like someone would not be too afraid of being caught with so many eyes around. Maybe tomorrow when we drive home I'll see if you can see the shed from the highway.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    portland, Ore
    Posts
    18,228
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovemew View Post
    I thought I had read here somewhere that she had to have been "stored" for a few days because the irrigation pond would not have been filled yet.
    I was thinking she was put in the crawl space for awhile.
    Poor baby girl this su**s to type!!!
    Hi Ilovemew, I read in a post here they did have bloodhounds out the first day. We did not hear if they alerted, so have to assume they didn't. Usually that kind of info does come out even in a tight lipped case. Now they could have alerted, and I know I shouldn't assume they didn't.

    BUT it leads me to believe Sandra was not anywhere on dry land for the amount of time it would take the death scent to ripen to where a sniffer dog would alert.

    To me that says she was in the water within 1 1/2 to 2 hours after she died. Pat Brown said today she thinks Sandra was killed fast, like within 1 hour or so. The killer knew she could ID him and so think it had to be premeditated with disposal already thought out, bag already in his car when he enticed her into his car.

    Pat said he panicked when she died as he now had to dispose of her. I think she is right and he moved with lightening speed. And IMO by the time the call went to LE that she was missing, I am feeling so strong that she was already in the water. xox


  11. #56
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by goofeegyrl View Post
    Exactly! I live in Sacramento, and oftentimes drive through Tracy on my way to visit my parents in the South Bay. In fact, we just drove down here on Tuesday and satisfied my thought that yes, it is right off the freeway, you can see the church and even the side of the MHP while on 205. I about lost my lunch driving by there. And, that traffic can be horrendous at that hour, it would seem like someone would not be too afraid of being caught with so many eyes around. Maybe tomorrow when we drive home I'll see if you can see the shed from the highway.
    That was my thought exactly! Especially on a Friday between 4 and 7pm it would be pretty stop and go. Last time I made that commute it was all STOP!!!
    you can VERY easily see the church from the freeway, and if your like me you would be looking at it while the traffic wasn't moving. Since all we can do is speculate as to WHAT exactly LE thinks happened there...in my mind it would be a VERY central/highly visible area to try to be "sneaking" around during daylight or commute hours!
    That's my opinion...

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    portland, Ore
    Posts
    18,228
    Quote Originally Posted by goofeegyrl View Post
    Exactly! I live in Sacramento, and oftentimes drive through Tracy on my way to visit my parents in the South Bay. In fact, we just drove down here on Tuesday and satisfied my thought that yes, it is right off the freeway, you can see the church and even the side of the MHP while on 205. I about lost my lunch driving by there. And, that traffic can be horrendous at that hour, it would seem like someone would not be too afraid of being caught with so many eyes around. Maybe tomorrow when we drive home I'll see if you can see the shed from the highway.
    Thanks from those of us who are not in the area.

    O/T, Do you travel the same route Scott Peterson did when he drove to the Berkeley Marina? I would be thinking about Laci and Connor too! xox

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    24,159
    Quote Originally Posted by scandi View Post
    Thanks from those of us who are not in the area.

    O/T, Do you travel the same route Scott Peterson did when he drove to the Berkeley Marina? I would be thinking about Laci and Connor too! xox
    Scandi, yes, Scott would have taken 205 from Modesto through Tracy to 580 up to 80 in Berkeley.
    This is the year to locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin NamUs MP#876 and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff NamUs MP#6410 and bring them home to their families!

    Parents watch your children. Free-range parenting leads to more child victims.

    Cruelty to humans begins with cruelty to animals.

    I believe in closure, not forgiveness. I'm also unapologetically judgemental.

    JeSuisJuif
    JeSuisCharlie


  14. #59
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    STEELER COUNTRY!
    Posts
    27,332
    What church believes in and a comment letter

    http://svng.com/tracy/what.htm
    Kyron, HALEIGH, ADJI & Gabriel NEEDS PRAYERS NOW TO FIND THEM!. Zahra & Jonathan in heaven
    Justice for Hailey!!!!
    No Justice for Caylee Marie..........

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    portland, Ore
    Posts
    18,228
    Quote Originally Posted by LinasK View Post
    Scandi, yes, Scott would have taken 205 from Modesto through Tracy to 580 up to 80 in Berkeley.
    Thanks Linask, I had to give you this thanks personally after all we went thru in that case. xox

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