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  1. #76
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    Apr 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapdragon View Post
    And hasn't had regular services since 1997!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    TAX SHELTER!

    1997??? I've heard one report that said 2007, but wow, where did you hear that??
    That would be 12 years without any services! If that's the case, that's NO church!

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    476
    This church stuff is something I've been wanting to rant about for a while. I smell a huge ugly rat with this church and in my mind's eye it has its teeth bared. I never believed for one second that this was or is a real church. I am sorry if that hurts or offends the family but after looking at a lot of the facts, using logic, intuition and yes, astrology I feel this church was no church at all for a very, very long time. And it infuriates me that this ridiculous structure could have been used for heinous crimes for a very long time on possibly more victims, and that wiring was possibly removed from the roof. I could go on but I won't.

    I do very much believe in the death penalty. Don't think I don't.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmicSun View Post
    This church stuff is something I've been wanting to rant about for a while. I smell a huge ugly rat with this church and in my mind's eye it has its teeth bared. I never believed for one second that this was or is a real church. I am sorry if that hurts or offends the family but after looking at a lot of the facts, using logic intuition and yes, astrology I feel this church was no church at all for a very, very long time. And it infuriates me that this ridiculous structure could have been used for heinous crimes for a very long time on possibly more victims, and that wiring was possibly removed from the roof. I could go on but I won't.

    I do very much believe in the death penalty. Don't think I don't.
    The church creeps me out big time. Lots of oddities here, IMO.

  4. #79
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    Apr 2009
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    Tracy, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeFromLB View Post
    1997??? I've heard one report that said 2007, but wow, where did you hear that??
    That would be 12 years without any services! If that's the case, that's NO church!
    Joe, You're correct! Sorry, My Bad! I meant to say 2007, guess my brain is in a time warp! It has been a few years since any regular service, and locals have said repeatedly that they rarely see anyone there.

    Also, local pastors have said that Pastor Lawless has not participated in any of the gatherings for local pastors. He has been repeatedly invited, but has never responded. They have used the term that he has "isolated" himself from the religious community here in Tracy.

    Thanks for your correction to my brain blip!!1

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    2,523
    It really makes me want to rant to see yet another case where past abuse (or speculation of past abuse) of the offender is used by some as a way to rationalize the offenders abusive behavior towards a child. It is insulting...a slap in the face...to the 100's of thousands of people who were abused yet did not succumb to that abuse by becoming an abuser.

    I grew up in a house of horrors yet never did I think it be RIGHT to hit my child in the head with a bat, or beat them with my fist untill they faded in and out of consciousness, or put them to bed saying "Think about something that makes you happy" as their insides were torn apart. It was WRONG. And no amount of irrational rationalization about my childhood could have made abuse understandable.

    Throughout the WS forums alone there can be found many posts made by members in which they refer to their own abusive childhoods. The Internet underscored what TV talk shows exposed...childhood abuse is a far more common occurrence than was ever thought. The majority of abused children DO NOT become sadistic abusers. The majority of persons abused as children struggle for years to learn how to live a life beyond a point of survival in order to achieve a life with love. A life which will include others, not discard them in trash bags or luggage.

    Simply put:

    All abusers were not abused.
    And All abused are not abusers.

  6. #81
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    Apr 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapdragon View Post
    Joe, You're correct! Sorry, My Bad! I meant to say 2007, guess my brain is in a time warp! It has been a few years since any regular service, and locals have said repeatedly that they rarely see anyone there.

    Also, local pastors have said that Pastor Lawless has not participated in any of the gatherings for local pastors. He has been repeatedly invited, but has never responded. They have used the term that he has "isolated" himself from the religious community here in Tracy.

    Thanks for your correction to my brain blip!!1
    No problem!

    There's also been some discussion about the particular beliefs of this church.
    A link on their website opens to a chart called "Trail of Blood" which attempts to show that the real Baptists go back all the way to 251 AD. This particular belief includes a repudiation of Protestant churches, which originated during the time of the Reformation in the 16th century. What his church thinks about Catholics I would rather not comment on!

    http://www.biblepreaching.com/chart.html

    So you have a pastor who probably would have little or nothing to do with other denominations outside of his "Missionary Baptist" tradition. Of course, this is merely an assumption on my part.

  7. #82
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    Aug 2008
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    Upstate NY
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    I had the most awful feeling this weekend. On Friday I saw an advertisement in the local paper for a Theater Workshop that was going to be held on Saturday. My 14 yo daughter was interested and so I called the contact number for more info. The woman who was organizing the registrants seemed very nice and told me that the workshop was being run by one of our local school district administrators who also went to school for theater arts. Anyway, all sounded great until she told me that it was being held at a local church. My stomach jumped into my throat; it was such a sick feeling. I knew it was just my reaction because of this case and so I worked my way past that initial reaction.

    The next morning when I took her to the church and we walked in, I was again sickened when I realized that I misinterpreted the age requirement or 12 and up. I assumed it was only for kids, but it was for anyone 12 yo and up. There were about 6 adults and 8 kids. I really rethought letting my daughter stay, and I almost turned us right back around and out the door. I knew that would devastate my daughter though and so I spent some time talking to the gentleman who was running the workshop and the lady who I had spoke to on the phone to get a feel for the situation. They made me feel a bit better, and my daughter really wanted to stay, so I signed her in and sat on the sidelines for an hour or so.

    In the end I did decide to leave her there for a few more hours and go about my errands that I needed to get done. She had an absolutely wonderful time and really wants to go to the second part next Saturday. I will probably let her because I know that she needs to have these experiences. I also know that I have drilled her like crazy lately about all of the "what to do" and "what not to do" situations.

    Even now though, I still have a pit in my stomach about it. I know that it is because of Sandra's case that I feel this way. I have always felt a sense of security in God's house, probably because I have always had great experiences personally. I hate that this case has taken that feeling away from me.
    "The opinion prevailed among advanced minds that it was time that belief should be replaced increasingly by knowledge; belief that did not itself rest on knowledge was superstition, and as such had to be opposed." - Albert Einstein

  8. #83
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    Apr 2009
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    Tracy, CA
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    As a parent you should always trust your gut instincts over what other people tell you. This is a lot different than living in fear of every shadow you see. If you smother your child too much you deprive her of life experiences necessary for her growth. Too much freedom and you put her at risk. It is up to you to find the happy medium. Just be aware of your surroundings and don't be afraid to talk to people and ask questions. Listen to your inner voice and trust what it tells you.

  9. #84
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    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmicSun View Post
    This church stuff is something I've been wanting to rant about for a while. I smell a huge ugly rat with this church and in my mind's eye it has its teeth bared. I never believed for one second that this was or is a real church. I am sorry if that hurts or offends the family but after looking at a lot of the facts, using logic, intuition and yes, astrology I feel this church was no church at all for a very, very long time. And it infuriates me that this ridiculous structure could have been used for heinous crimes for a very long time on possibly more victims, and that wiring was possibly removed from the roof. I could go on but I won't.

    I do very much believe in the death penalty. Don't think I don't.
    I agree with you 100%! This is a building kept by 'who' to do 'what'?
    This is NO CHURCH and the members are not there to PRAY!
    I feel that MH is AFRAID of someone (or many) and is taking the rap.
    I do feel she is involved all the way but that she was NOT ALONE no matter what LE wants us to believe. I thik LE is keeping things close to the vest and will have more later on. MH will squeel later I think.
    I to believe in the death penalty!
    Kyron, HALEIGH, ADJI & Gabriel NEEDS PRAYERS NOW TO FIND THEM!. Zahra & Jonathan in heaven
    Justice for Hailey!!!!
    No Justice for Caylee Marie..........

  10. #85
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    Jan 2004
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    Nestled Deep in Southern Hospitality
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeFromLB View Post
    1997??? I've heard one report that said 2007, but wow, where did you hear that??
    That would be 12 years without any services! If that's the case, that's NO church!
    It may be more like a church just for bible studies now.

    Isn't Pastor Lawless 77 years old. Maybe he retired or semi retired but his parishioners (the older members of the church that had been with him for 30 years) did not want him to leave completely.

    imo
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina


  11. #86
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    Aug 2008
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    TRIPLEA
    I can relate to you big time! A choir directer heard my grandson sing in a 6th grade
    play........beautiful voice and came to us and wanted him in a 'boys choir' at a huge church in town. My son said 'no thanks, he is to busy with other activities.
    Everyone but me was down my sons throat for this. A year later this same
    fun loving, religious man in charge of allot in the church ( a regular good church by the way) is charged with countless molestation charges and now is in Western Penn
    for the crimes KNOWN.......still looking for more. Also my 2 grandsons were in BOY SCOUTS and their LEADER is in jail NOW.........a WELL KNOWN MARRIED DOCTOR!!!
    Thank the good LORD that my kids have said they are okay and never had any encounters with him. We ask our grandkids all the time to come and tell us anything that bothers them!
    Kyron, HALEIGH, ADJI & Gabriel NEEDS PRAYERS NOW TO FIND THEM!. Zahra & Jonathan in heaven
    Justice for Hailey!!!!
    No Justice for Caylee Marie..........

  12. #87
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    Feb 2007
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    29,161
    (((((capoly))))) Hugs capoly. Nice to see you in Sandra's forum.

    Salem

  13. #88
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    Apr 2009
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    Tracy, CA
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    I am resurrecting the rant/emotional overload page tonight cause I am sooo sad about this whole thing. I am a local, and I can't help thinking about what really did happen to Sandra. I was out of town this weekend... a lovely escape to the ocean. And I opened up the SF Chronicle this morning at our inn to read what the judge had to say about sealing the autopsy evidence due to the horrific nature/ fear of public anger, etc.

    Needless to say, my little escape to the sea was over, in my mind, at least. As we walked on the bluffs looking at the ocean, I thought, Sandra will never see this. As we toured gardens with whimsical ornaments and cottontail rabbits hopping about, I thought, that poor child will never have this pure sense of innocent pleasure. My day was ruined. And as we made our way back to Tracy, I wondered when things would ever soften again.

    I have a 5yr old daughter. We live on a court in a very nice area.....Both my husband and I were talking about little Sandra, and how if it were our daughter, and the person lived w/ family on our court, how would we feel driving home everyday seeing that. Seeing the murder location down the street.

    Absolutely unthinkable.

  14. #89
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    Apr 2009
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    Long Beach, California
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapdragon View Post
    I am resurrecting the rant/emotional overload page tonight cause I am sooo sad about this whole thing. I am a local, and I can't help thinking about what really did happen to Sandra. I was out of town this weekend... a lovely escape to the ocean. And I opened up the SF Chronicle this morning at our inn to read what the judge had to say about sealing the autopsy evidence due to the horrific nature/ fear of public anger, etc.

    Needless to say, my little escape to the sea was over, in my mind, at least. As we walked on the bluffs looking at the ocean, I thought, Sandra will never see this. As we toured gardens with whimsical ornaments and cottontail rabbits hopping about, I thought, that poor child will never have this pure sense of innocent pleasure. My day was ruined. And as we made our way back to Tracy, I wondered when things would ever soften again.

    I have a 5yr old daughter. We live on a court in a very nice area.....Both my husband and I were talking about little Sandra, and how if it were our daughter, and the person lived w/ family on our court, how would we feel driving home everyday seeing that. Seeing the murder location down the street.

    Absolutely unthinkable.
    How could that family meet for worship on Easter Sunday in the place where the police believe Sandra was brutally murdered days before?

    That's just gross.

    (btw, I'm wondering if that was their first service in several years. According to many reports, the church was basically non-functioning.)

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    29,161
    I have been thinking about Sandra a lot this morning. I really just wanted to come here and share.

    I'm sending prayers to Sandra's family - prayers of strength and courage as they continue on this journey. And prayers to Sandra, who is now safe and happy. May she send kisses to her mother.

    Salem

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