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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by flgrl017 View Post
    Imo it looks like something a little boy may do.
    I so agree with this, but don't think that's why it was removed necessarily. i.e. I don't think the R's thought about the psychology of it, they just wanted it out of the house.. so they bundled it up with other stuff (maybe the golf clubs) and sent it with Pam.

  2. #167
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    Sorry if this has been brought up, but the tape that was found on her, some say duct tape. Could it have been gaff tape? Given that she was in pageants, I'm sure she had 'props' and gaff tape is what is normally used. One strip would be easy to be pulled off and used from something from a prop used. And a roll wouldn't be found.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanzz View Post
    I so agree with this, but don't think that's why it was removed necessarily. i.e. I don't think the R's thought about the psychology of it, they just wanted it out of the house.. so they bundled it up with other stuff (maybe the golf clubs) and sent it with Pam.
    They never got John's golf bag - Pam was not allowed in the basement, thank goodness.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakidoll View Post
    Sorry if this has been brought up, but the tape that was found on her, some say duct tape. Could it have been gaff tape? Given that she was in pageants, I'm sure she had 'props' and gaff tape is what is normally used. One strip would be easy to be pulled off and used from something from a prop used. And a roll wouldn't be found.
    I suspect you're correct, Kakidoll. I think it was gaffer's tape (JMO), but I'm not sure why you think that would make a roll unlikely to be found.

    I've never seen the exact type of tape disclosed, but I do remember that the piece of tape found on JonBenet was identified as being made by a company named Shurtape. The reason that "sticks out" (NPI) is the coincidental location of that company with another notoriously well-known poster (Hickory, NC). Here is some of the gaffer's tapes they currently manufacture:
    https://www.shurtape.com/products/ma...ket_list%3A528

    All views expressed in my posts are my opinion and are protected under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as “freedom of speech.”

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanzz View Post
    I so agree with this, but don't think that's why it was removed necessarily. i.e. I don't think the R's thought about the psychology of it, they just wanted it out of the house.. so they bundled it up with other stuff (maybe the golf clubs) and sent it with Pam.
    That's a dangerous move. They would have no idea house close police would be watching her gather stuff. Or if police would go through her car and check everything she took just before she left.

  6. #171
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    JonBenet continues to hold a position of honor on WS. Throughout the years, some of the finest sleuths have been captivated, and deeply invested, by attempting to solve the Mystery of JonBenet's Murder, by searching to seek the truth. In the future, our collective research may still linger but the links to many linked websites are slowly, but surely, vanishing.

    Bumping these two fine posts that indicate how American Girl dolls, owned by JBR, were likely the source for the tan fibers found on the duct tape applied. to. her. mouth. And, the cotton collected or photographed at the CS, may be linked to the stuffing found inside the dolls. Oh, dear. How could anyone, with any degree of humanity, commit something so sinister to a 6yo little girl? It's an unfathomable mystery that remains unsolved, to any legal degree of punishment, for her incomprehensible cause of death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    For all of the newbies that had questions about the re-ordered American Girl Doll....this is an interesting read. It was posted over at Forums For Justice...by Tricia, she owns both Websleuths and FFJ.



    Who Ordered an American Girl Doll, in the Name of JonBenet, on Januay 1st 1997 and had it Delivered to Access Graphics?


    You all know the wonderful Jahazafat. Jahazafat, for years, has been screaming into the wind about the dolls, the fibers and the special order in JBR’s name in 1997. In fact Jahazafat has a website with some of the information. http://www.geocities.com/pinker44/
    The problem I had with Jahazafat was not her story but how she came about the information. She didn’t have a reason to lie yet there was no source. I didn’t know what to do with her story.

    Until now.

    First, I want to thank Peggy (Little) for this information. It was posted first on Crime and Justice. I am grateful Peggy brought it to my attention.
    http://pub165.ezboard.com/fcrimeandjustice13552frm78
    Jahazafat worked for Pleasant Company. She saw the order in JonBenet’s name and where the doll was delivered to. Access Graphics. Jahazafat told me later that the order was paid for with a money order or cashiers check. No credit card trail.
    Below is the email I received from Jahazafat concerning the dolls and the tape. Bold is mine.
    `````````````````````````````````````````````````` `
    I worked for Pleasant Company, owned by Mattel, which sells American Girl Dolls, from October 1998 to January 2004. I worked at a call center in Wilmot, Wisconsin. I worked as a variable order processor, which means I worked seasonally. The job was taking credit card phone orders for products and putting them into a computer system. It also involved fielding customer service issues and processing requests to mail the catalogue.
    I read this in Perfect Murder, Perfect Town the last week of September 1999. "The day before, one of Patsy Ramsey's sisters had gone into the house with police permission and taken out an oil painting, several American Girl dolls, a portfolio of JonBenet's pageant photographs…”. I first thought it a testament to the wonderful products that the dolls were so special to be removed. But when I got to the end of the book there was a list that mentioned the duct tape had to be from ‘outside the house’. I had specific training that if a customer called in and complained about the cord attaching the head to tell them to duct tape it down. It could also be tucked in the clothing or sewn, but never cut, and for safety reasons, never pinned. The duct tape was presented as proof of an intruder but the dolls have a verifiable connection to duct tape and the Ramseys were allowed to remove them from the crime scene.
    I did simple experiments with duct tape on a doll. If you tape the string down when you pull the tape off there remains a visible residue and it pulls out the white polyester stuffing, which sticks to the tape and makes it not sticky. Somewhere I read a reference to white fibers on the tape but have never been able to relocate those one or two lines. It’s likely these white fibers were the cause of the Santa Bear fiasco. The duct tape information upset me tremendously. I spoke to my father, an attorney, and he called Hunter’s office. He spoke with Leslie Aaholm. This was literally days before the GJ disbanded. I followed up the phone call with letters to Kane and Owens. From reading about Hunter’s office, he couldn’t be trusted 100% so as supportive back up, I called and wrote Craig Lewis. The GJ made no decision but Owens went on TV a few days later talking about ‘new evidence’ and Henry Lee had come to town. It was encouraging but nothing more happened.
    I bought a PC out of frustration early in 2000 to follow the case online. I read more about the evidence and in particular ‘mysterious’ fibers found on the body and clothing. Sometimes they were listed as blue and sometimes they were dark. I looked at a Molly doll in a display case and gathered at her feet were thousands of navy blue wool fibers that had shed from her skirt. As with the duct tape, there was an eerie connection.
    In September 1999 a computer search with the Ramsey’s Boulder address revealed a catalogue sent to JonBenet in 1996. A separate search had shown an order for a Samantha doll sent to Patsy in Charlevoix in July 1996. Computer searches are done with zip code and last name. In the spring of 2000 I searched and found an order listed as ordered by and shipped to JonBenet herself on Pearl Street, January 1, 1997. I about fell off my seat. I never saw the paper order, only computer documentation. Mail orders are processed in Middleton, WI for speed in delivery as that is were they are received. It also was years before and paper copies are shredded within two weeks of processing. A search with Nedra’s name and zip showed an order from early September 1996. Nedra’s computer file has the misspelling of Nedba. I could go on with pages of information about the orders and the computer systems but it's very technical.
    As with the duct tape information, I wrote letters to Kane, Owens, and Lewis with info about the dark fibers and the doll sent to Access Graphics. I also emailed the Boulder Police department. and Chuck Green. There was never anything other than computer generated receipt confirmations; I think those came from Owens. This was spring 2000. I waited years before I posted much online. I held out hope that it would be investigated. A year or two later Smit came out with information about tan cotton fibers, which only cemented the doll connection, as the torso is tan cotton. This revelation had me again writing and emailing to the same list and then some. I have shared; written, called, or emailed this story to hundreds of people. Anytime the Ramseys appear on TV, I rebut with my story. Anytime I read of another Ramsey lawsuit I contact the defendants. I have not been silent but oddly, I have never been asked a single question either.
    About using duct tapes on the dolls, employees don’t all receive the exact same training. Training sessions are small-unscripted affairs. It may have just been an off the cuff remark. I asked a few fellow workers and none related any duct tape training. It is not even a huge issue and in the course of my employment I only received a handful of calls about that cord. My father though did call and after several tries got the recommendation to use duct tape. I know the person I heard it from was trained by Middleton, not Wilmot which may account for the discrepancy.
    I never felt comfortable speaking up when I was employed, as it is a sensitive issue. The products are for young girls and association with a crime is less than ideal. I have friends who support families based on the success of the company. But if I look at the larger picture the information needs to be available so other law enforcement agencies can learn from what went so drastically wrong. If it is used to prevent a single crime against a child it’s worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nobull View Post
    I've been pondering this a lot, Ames. Supposing it was the Samantha doll reordered, then I would wonder exactly why, since she already had 2. (Patsy and Nedra had both given her one as I recall, will update links when I find them.) The reasons could be as follows:

    1) JBR really really liked Samantha. (Unlikely that she would have 3, IMO.)

    2) Something was damaged on the doll itself, requiring a stand-in. Either the head detached which would be fairly obvious, or a major clothing piece was damaged, again being fairly obvious.

    I can understand about the tan fibers, those would be associated with the tan cotton doll torso no matter the doll (Molly or Samantha.) The duct tape theory seems plausible.

    I'm having a problem with the blue fibers.

    The following assumes that the dolls and accessories were manufactured in 1996 similarly to examples I found online recently.

    Assuming that they are similar, Samantha would appear as follows:



    I'm no expert, but I'm not seeing a viable source of blue fibers in the above.

    Possible sources of blue fibers that I would guess, would be in the additional separate outfits marketed for the Samantha doll. These, of course, could be worn on any other 18 inch AG doll. Examples:


    These are described as "Black Watch Cape and Gaiters Set".

    A close up of the fabric (not exact outfit fabric, noting there is no greenish stripe):


    Blue Velvet Dress marketed for Samantha:


    It was noted by Jahazafat that there were copious blue fibers around her own personal display of the Molly doll with her original outfit. Molly comes clothed in the following outfit from AG as also mentioned by Jahazafat:



    Were there additional outfits ordered with the AG replacement doll? Was the reordered AG doll in fact Samantha? Was it a Molly doll? If it was a Samantha, why would John reorder that doll, assuming it came with the white plaid dress?

    I'm thinking someone only recognized the difference in the hair color of the dolls, reordered (or had someone else reorder) that doll and didn't take into consideration which outfit the doll had originally shipped with. No offense, but this seems like a very male thing to do, assuming the male had not grown up playing with dolls and not taking into account the importance of accessorizing/fashion that females would find important. A female would, IMO, have been more careful about the reorder had they understood they were covering up a crime and not simply performing a function.

  7. #172
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    if you know every detail of this case.

    Concluding all known facts to me I have now this "image":

    in the morning body was found by Patsy Ramsey and fibers on tape was hers. I have reasons for this "lie" explained so do not bother with it. Nothing criminal.

    2 neighbors were checking the house

    1st one was a "secret Santa" who brought a doll as a gift and is responsible for some marks on the body. It was probably some "teen", possible HI-TEC and fingerprint on the door were his.

    2nd one was spying on Ramseys in the morning. He entered using tree through the door in JonBenet room. He was a source of enhanced 911.
    The most probably it was a person living with Stantons or someone they knew. Called in a morning.

    I would expect something like this:

    Stantons heaving problems with happenings they hear in the night asked someone to check Ramseys house in the morning. Assuming John was calling JonBenet outside. Later when they knew about JonBenet body in the winecella they spread the rumour and secret Santa appeared.

    The 2nd visit was probably at the time police was in the house.

    [edit] Call me crazy but: All major religions were and are in control of Jesus or Eve or whatever you call it and his group. He is using the anti-mob defending mechanism in an offensive way and is a reason for many additional problems. The only major similarity of these sects and "God" is fighting against the stupidity of the mob. As I said. You can get this as crazy but this case is a religious one with the only common thing between "God" and "jessica" is showing that morons no matter good or bad are still morons.
    and yes, Patsy was a close friend of "God" and "we" are not able to say that she was smaller than some s...head.
    [edit2] for me murder is solved. I am now working on a religious part.
    Last edited by archieil; 11-12-2017 at 02:37 AM.
    JonBenét Case, The burglar Theory:
    http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/...rglar%20Theory

  8. #173
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    "It was noted by Jahazafat that there were copious blue fibers around her own personal display of the Molly doll with her original outfit. Molly comes clothed in the following outfit from AG as also mentioned by Jahazafat"

    This is incorrect, it was in a big company display case in the Wilmot lobby where the dolls had been on display. On stands with spot lights and not much else. It was the Historical Doll Collection at the time - Felicity, Kirsten, Addy, Samantha and Molly, all in their 'meet outfits'. The case had been there for a few years, don't know if it was ever cleaned but around the base of Molly you could see hundreds if not thousands of tiny navy blue fibers shedded from her navy wool skirt.

    G O O S E
    B U M P S

    It's notable to say there is a current surge or trend to do the right thing, to expose injustice and those responsible for crimes of the past. Cross your fingers that the clock is ticking for the likes of John Ramsey for strangling the near dead body of JonBenet and Alex Hunter for conspiracy to help cover it up.
    Last edited by sgrump; 11-14-2017 at 10:59 AM.

  9. #174
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    My own opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by archieil View Post
    if you know every detail of this case.

    Concluding all known facts to me I have now this "image":

    in the morning body was found by Patsy Ramsey and fibers on tape was hers. I have reasons for this "lie" explained so do not bother with it. Nothing criminal.

    2 neighbors were checking the house

    1st one was a "secret Santa" who brought a doll as a gift and is responsible for some marks on the body. It was probably some "teen", possible HI-TEC and fingerprint on the door were his.

    2nd one was spying on Ramseys in the morning. He entered using tree through the door in JonBenet room. He was a source of enhanced 911.
    The most probably it was a person living with Stantons or someone they knew. Called in a morning.

    I would expect something like this:

    Stantons heaving problems with happenings they hear in the night asked someone to check Ramseys house in the morning. Assuming John was calling JonBenet outside. Later when they knew about JonBenet body in the winecella they spread the rumour and secret Santa appeared.

    The 2nd visit was probably at the time police was in the house.

    [edit] Call me crazy but: All major religions were and are in control of Jesus or Eve or whatever you call it and his group. He is using the anti-mob defending mechanism in an offensive way and is a reason for many additional problems. The only major similarity of these sects and "God" is fighting against the stupidity of the mob. As I said. You can get this as crazy but this case is a religious one with the only common thing between "God" and "jessica" is showing that morons no matter good or bad are still morons.
    and yes, Patsy was a close friend of "God" and "we" are not able to say that she was smaller than some s...head.
    [edit2] for me murder is solved. I am now working on a religious part.
    fingerprint on the door were his
    Wasn't the print on the wine cellar door later determined to belong to John's oldest living daughter?

    He was a source of enhanced 911.
    You are declaring that someone other than BR is the voice on the enhanced 911 call that says, "What did you find?"

    they spread the rumour and secret Santa appeared
    Cannot be true, nor assumed, as another female adult neighbor was told, by JonBenet, that she was eagerly anticipating a visit from a "Secret Santa". Hence, the Secret Santa is not a rumor but a proclamation made by JonBenet herself.

    JBR intended to be at the Rs residence in Charlevoix, MI, on December 26, 1996 for another Christmas celebration with JRs older children. Hence, in my humble opinion, that is why JBR, being only 6yo thus still believed in Santa, was told a Secret Santa would be paying her a visit. JBR knew she would be in MI and not in Boulder on the 26th of Dec.. Therefore, none of her friends were expecting another Christmas Day for gift giving.

    Assuming John was calling JonBenet outside
    We most certainly cannot assume John was outdoors calling for his daughter. This is an unsolved murder investigation, whereby, we must have some indication of proof before assuming anything such as JR being outside in the cold weather at or around midnight screaming his daughter's name.

    It is fine, with me, if you wish to inject an intruder into this heinous and despicable murder; however, any assumptions must be grounded by some sense of the Truth.

    this case is a religious one with the only common thing between "God" and "jessica" is showing that morons no matter good or bad are still morons
    As a Christian, I shall ignore your slam about religion. I profess to be an Episcopalian which is the religion worshipped at St John's Episcopal Church where the Rs attended. Who is "jessica" a reference to?
    Stantons heaving problems with happenings they hear in the night asked someone to check Ramseys house in the morning.
    Well, Ms Stanton's story is that she heard the sound of a loud scream coming from the Rs home. Didn't she nudge her husband awake? They heard the sound of metal scraping a hard surface that followed the scream.

    The loud scream may be what is referred to as a "death scream". It is the guttural sound a person makes when knowing they are about to be killed or a rebellious scream against the "rage against the dying in the Light."


    Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night
    - Poem by Dylan Thomas

    Do not go gentle into that good night,
    Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
    Because their words had forked no lightning they
    Do not go gentle into that good night.

    Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
    Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
    And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
    Do not go gentle into that good night.

    Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
    Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    And you, my father, there on that sad height,
    Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/do-n...at-good-night/

  10. #175
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    I assume they found that some evidence was left by a neighbor not knowing about the kidnap.

    Do you think they should take a revenge on him?

    or push information to the public that it was evidence left by someone who could legally be in the basement?


    I am assuming you have humans in your country.

    morons were raping my ancestors so you should have something better than my surroundings.


    I was working for the government. I was working for media. I had contact with security agencies and with the Police and health care.

    I am assuming that the US is much like my country. It is easier to take a shortcut than to tell the whole truth to a genius with bought education or bunch of housekeepers without any education at all.

    [edit] "jessica" near 1 mln of fanatics, criminals and everything needed to put a coal to the fire taking all dirt on themselves. They think that siting in a train is the same as ruling the world.
    Last edited by archieil; 11-15-2017 at 01:38 AM.
    JonBenét Case, The burglar Theory:
    http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/...rglar%20Theory


  11. #176
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    btw.

    I am not sure if you do understand that.

    I am suggesting here "solutions"; based on my experience; which are in near 100% not excluding RDI theories.

    If you are believing in some "peeing rage" understanding my theory of staging... It is your decision.

    I explained staging and for me, I have explained the crime.

    I am nor eager to tell you why I am sure this crime is solved and there is no problem in identity of the murderer.

    It is out of my control and I am not interested in further bothering with the murder part.

    As I said, it is your decision to believe in something knowing that staging was not some chaotic doings of a crazy housewife.

    I am looking for surroundings of the crime to better understand problems in this investigation.

    [edit] sorry for punctuations but my language is using some simple rules and Grammarly is suggesting its own which are not fully coherent with my experience. Unfortunately, I was never taught of any punctuation rules in English.
    Last edited by archieil; 11-15-2017 at 02:27 AM.
    JonBenét Case, The burglar Theory:
    http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/...rglar%20Theory

  12. #177
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    btw.

    it is somewhat funny that you are blaming me for IDI fanaticism when I am talking about an idea which should be topped by RDIs

    in simple words, I suggested body in the morning with someone out of Ramseys seeing it and hearing talking of parents...

    and you are blaming me for being IDI which should be banned from this forum.

    Is this not some type of irony in your mouth?

    [edit] I was hoping for a new RDI theory. Ramseys Did It Intruders Was There And Hear Them And Saw The Body.

    In Short Buuulll*****
    Last edited by archieil; 11-15-2017 at 04:51 AM.
    JonBenét Case, The burglar Theory:
    http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/...rglar%20Theory

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by archieil View Post

    morons no matter good or bad are still morons

    couldn't agree more

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