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  1. #1
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    What did Caylee's age have to do with her death?

    I think Caylee was murdered because she got “too smart for her britches.” She got past the easily manipulated stage of a baby and was very much into the active/talkative of a two year old ... going on three. I don’t know where or how to make this point about developmental process and related family dynamics, but I think that is what cost Caylee her life: she entered the oppositional, autonomy seeking phase, a very talkative stage, the natural course for a two year old. She was becoming increasingly able to "describe the situation" of her own experiences and to "reveal the secrets" of others in her life.

    Just my personal opinions.

    But, IMPO, Caylee died because she was increasingly aware of her own life and could tell the secrets of others in her life. What secrets? What others? I certainly do not know.

    Russell
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  2. #2
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    There is more offtopic than on topic in the entire other thread LOL. So, if you want discuss THIS topic, feel free.
    Please stay on topic;which is how Caylee's age may have impacted this crime.

  3. #3
    I think there were many reasons that caused KC to feel Caylee was a hinderance to giving KC her freedom. I totally agree that becoming her own person was just another reason KC had to end her precious life.

  4. #4
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    1. She wasn't a cute little, nonverbal trophy baby anymore. More of an annoying little tag-along.
    2. Her age is a huge factor in getting Casey the death penalty. Trusting and totally vulnerable to her primary care giver (hesitate to use the word "mother." Thinking of that little body being thrown away in trash bags. What could be more heinous?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knot4u2no View Post
    I think Caylee was murdered because she got “too smart for her britches.” She got past the easily manipulated stage of a baby and was very much into the active/talkative of a two year old ... going on three. I don’t know where or how to make this point about developmental process and related family dynamics, but I think that is what cost Caylee her life: she entered the oppositional, autonomy seeking phase, a very talkative stage, the natural course for a two year old. She was becoming increasingly able to "describe the situation" of her own experiences and to "reveal the secrets" of others in her life.

    Just my personal opinions.

    But, IMPO, Caylee died because she was increasingly aware of her own life and could tell the secrets of others in her life. What secrets? What others? I certainly do not know.

    Russell
    Thank you for this thread!!! It's close to my heart because I believe the topic very relevent to the motive. It's been my position all along that Caylee was killed to silence her. I've pointed out that this is a motive in many a murder case. Caylee either told Grandma something alarming during their private time together (without KC), visiting CA's parents (6/15), or CA began to suspect later in the day that Caylee COULD tell her something alarming and Cindy threatened KC that she was going to ask Caylee some questions when she got home from work Monday 6/16/08. KC couldn't allow this to happen. I honestly believe my second senerio. That Cindy threatened KC of questioning Caylee the next day. Therefore, CA NEVER saw her Granddaughter again, after this threat. And thus the July 3rd Myspace post by CA titled something like "My Caylee is Missing".
    JMHO.

  6. #6
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    What did her age have to do with her death?

    Well, if Caylee would have been old enough to take care of herself, support her mother's lies, get a job to pay for her mother's stuff, help her mother land the man of her dreams, tell Cindy off when KC didn't feel up to it, and go with KC to the clubs, then maybe KC wouldn't have killed her.

    Even if Caylee was an adult, I still think that KC might have killed her. Now, maybe we should open another thread that is titled "If Caylee was a robot, would KC have used her as scrap metal?" I'd say probably not to that. She could have programmed a robot...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thinking_Out_Loud View Post
    What did her age have to do with her death?

    Well, if Caylee would have been old enough to take care of herself, support her mother's lies, get a job to pay for her mother's stuff, help her mother land the man of her dreams, tell Cindy off when KC didn't feel up to it, and go with KC to the clubs, then maybe KC wouldn't have killed her.

    Even if Caylee was an adult, I still think that KC might have killed her. Now, maybe we should open another thread that is titled "If Caylee was a robot, would KC have used her as scrap metal?" I'd say probably not to that. She could have programmed a robot...
    KC killed her daughter BEFORE she could USE her further. ie: hook her Mom up with her friends divorced Dad; get a part-time job; defend her Mom against her Grandma; be Mom's surrogate "best friend"...etc...irrevelant. Caylee HAD to die when she did...to shut her up. She was about to spill KC's secrets....And NOBODY is allowed to do this...

  8. #8
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    Terrible twos had to play some hand in the event IMO. I remember my 27 year old was a terror at that age and so smart and a little recorder too. My mom used to say " little rabbits have big ears" in other words everything we said she repeated. Still, she was a blessing and a gift from God. I worried about her everytime she got the slighest bit sick and watched after her like a hawk. She grew up to be a lovely responsible woman and I am proud to be her mom, something Casey will never be able to say.

  9. #9
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    The independence that comes at that age...

    Independence that comes in many colors and flavors....

    I can do it myself
    I don't need you
    I don't like you
    I want it
    I don't want too
    Mommy did this today
    Mommy why are we going here
    Will Grandma be there?

    etc...

    I have had 13 2 almost 3 yos now and my most recent 3yo
    was born about a week before Caylee (one of my reasons for being addicted to this case) I have hear all of the above and more.

    I can see the theory that Caylee was beginning to talk more...and 3 yo don't lie well...they say what they see, what they know loud enough for the whole world to hear.

    OTOH, I have had one or two tell me they don't like me and would rather be with someone else...I just kiss them, tell them I love them and we move on. It is a stage...it isn't like the "hate" is coming from years of experience they play with words and feelings...but if Caylee was talking like that I can see Casey snapping...

    moo
    Last edited by Mamabear1963; 04-22-2009 at 08:29 AM. Reason: because I said my 3 yo was my youngest...brain blip
    Sitting. on. hands.


  10. #10
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    glad you have revived this question about Caylee's age, thanks for the thread.
    KC had cared for Caylee without any harm ever coming to her until this point, through the infant years, the newly mobile years, the terrible twos, etc. A few friends and associates also cared for Caylee during these years, with no harm apparently coming to her by KC or any of these people. True, Caylee's speech was becoming more intelligible at this age, so she could pose a risk to anyone with a secret that she witnessed or was victim of. She could tell her grandparents or her mother about something that had happened to her or something she'd seen.

    Of course if that is what led to her death, it would have had to be a secret bad enough to murder a child to conceal. In the case of KC, if she wanted to engage in any behavior she didn't want Caylee to tell the grandparents about (or if she wanted to be free for that matter), she need only let Caylee live with the grandparents and visit any time she wanted. Easy. And I do think she takes the easy route. Also, if the grandparents thought Caylee mentioned anything inappropriate like somebody hit me or somebody did whatever or Mom is doing whatever, I think KC would just say "she got it from TV, you're crazy", etc, etc. I think simple denial and evasion would be her style. I think KC might just leave Caylee with the grandparents at that point so there wouldn't be any more incidents to worry about.

    Regarding killing Caylee to "be free", why now at almost 3 yrs old, why not before. Caylee was not far from being able to enter public pre-K now, etc. Casey could even have asked her mom to help get childcare until then.

    Caylee's death could have occurred pursuant to a sexual assault. Older children might be controlled and used as an ongoing victim by telling them they will be killed or their family will be killed if they tell, but Caylee was probably too young to be threatened effectively in this manner, she might just be killed instead, or murdering the child might just be part of the perpetrator's m.o.

    I am less inclined to think that KC or someone who had previously sat for Caylee murdered Caylee than another party simply because there was no history of harm by these people, then suddenly, when KC has new associates, new preoccupations, Caylee exposed to new crowds, Caylee gets harmed. That was the factor that changed. Caylee could have been murdered by anyone who was around, when her mother was busy with a boyfriend or friends, or on the computer or phone, or intoxicated, or left Caylee with someone, or whatever (by any associate of hers or by a stranger who saw an opportunity). Caylee's death could have been something other than a sexual assault, too, it could have been a retribution crime of some sort against her mother or her mother's associates. The tape on the mouth could have been a message to her mother or someone else.

    Or her mouth could have been taped just during a rage attack by someone who wanted her quiet because they were sleeping or hungover or on drugs or whatever. A few of the possibilities anyway. I definitely agree that she could have been a bigger risk to someone of telling something at this age than before. I think if she had told anything on KC or was going to, KC's coping mechanism would have been denial and evasion, rather than murdering Caylee. Though I can't rule out that possibility either of course.
    Last edited by seagull65; 04-22-2009 at 01:02 PM. Reason: word change, "pursuant"


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagull65 View Post
    glad you have revived this question, thanks for the thread.
    KC had cared for Caylee without any harm ever coming to her until this point, through the infant years, the newly mobile years, the terrible twos, etc. A few friends and associates also cared for Caylee during these years, with no harm apparently coming to her by KC or any of these people. True, Caylee's speech was becoming more intelligible at this age, so she could pose a risk to anyone with a secret that she witnessed or was victim of. She could tell her grandparents or her mother about something that had happened to her or something she'd seen.

    Of course if that is what led to her death, it would have had to be a secret bad enough to murder a child to conceal. In the case of KC, if she wanted to engage in any behavior she didn't want Caylee to tell the grandparents about (or if she wanted to be free for that matter), she need only let Caylee live with the grandparents and visit any time she wanted. Easy. And I do think she takes the easy route. Also, if the grandparents thought Caylee mentioned anything inappropriate like somebody hit me or somebody did whatever or Mom is doing whatever, I think KC would just say "she got it from TV, you're crazy", etc, etc. I think simple denial and evasion would be her style. I think KC might just leave Caylee with the grandparents at that point so there wouldn't be any more incidents to worry about.

    Caylee's death could have occurred concurrent with a sexual assault, i.e. killed during the crime itself. Older children might be controlled and used as an ongoing victim by telling them they will be killed or their family will be killed if they tell, but Caylee was probably too young to be threatened effectively in this manner, she might just be killed instead, or she simply might not survive the attack itself, the m.o. of the child molester might include suffocating the victim or strangulation with a ligature or whatever.

    I am less inclined to think that KC or someone who had previously sat for Caylee murdered Caylee than another party simply because there was no history of harm by these people, then suddenly, when KC has new associates and new preoccupations, Caylee gets harmed. That was the factor that changed. Caylee could have been murdered by anyone who was around, when her mother was busy with a boyfriend, or busy at Fusian, or busy with friends, or on the computer or phone, or intoxicated or whatever. Or, Caylee's death could have been something other than a sexual assault, it could have been a retribution crime of some sort against her mother or her mother's associates. The tape on the mouth could have been a message to her mother or someone else.

    The tape on the mouth definitely could suggest that someone didn't want Caylee to tell something or was punishing her for having told something. Or it could have been to silence her during a kidnapping or sexual assault, or just during a rage attack by someone who wanted her quiet because they were sleeping or hungover or on drugs or whatever. MOO

    I have to ask...IF ANY of the above were true, How do you explain Casey and TonE strolling through Blockbuster (apparently without a care in the world) WITHOUT Caylee, the very evening of Caylee's disappearance? I just don't get it Seagull, I really don't. JMHO of course

  12. #12
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    Enjoyed your post about kids of this age, Mamabear! They definitely do tell it like it is! If you want an honest opinion about anything, you know who you can go to

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pondering Mind View Post
    I have to ask...IF ANY of the above were true, How do you explain Casey and TonE strolling through Blockbuster (apparently without a care in the world) WITHOUT Caylee, the very evening of Caylee's disappearance? I just don't get it Seagull, I really don't. JMHO of course
    First of all, TL and KC are the ones to explain that, not me...

    If Caylee was already missing or dead, TL and KC might both have known that, just one of them could know it, or maybe neither of them had actually realized it yet....one of them could be the murderer, we don't know which one, or neither of them. Maybe KC had dropped Caylee off somewhere thinking a friend had her, and later didn't want to implicate her friend. Maybe TL and KC had left Caylee with someone and later didn't want to implicate them or KC was told not to implicate them. We also don't know KC's condition or mood at the time she was following TL into that Blockbuster or how free she really was. There's so much we don't know.

    How does the blockbuster video negate my post?

    KC's being with TL in a blockbuster on this date doesn't mean that KC is necessarily the murderer, does it? How?

    Anyway, back to the topic of Caylee's age and how it could relate to her murder.....

  14. #14
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    I don't feel that Caylee's age really had to do with her murder, I think it had to do with the person that KC was becoming...
    As we've all heard she was changing, she wasn't hanging out with the same people, and she was getting even more desperate in her ways (stealing from close friends)

    I think she liked where her life was going... new boyfriend, new friends, the partying seemed to be an even greater part of her life, and i think that Caylee just didn't fit her lifestyle anymore...

    I think there are a lot of other factors that played into it all, this whole situation is such a tangled web...

    I do understand that Caylee was getting to the age where she was understanding her surroundings more, but she was still young and KC could brainwash her, and she could attribute anything Caylee spoke of to her having a wild imagination or watching too much adult tv

    I just think that KC could no longer balance the unemployed party girl lifestyle with the mother, provider lifestyle... so she made a choice

    Unfortunately I feel that choice was the wrong one

    Just my opinion...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddeva View Post
    we don't know that no harm ever came to caylee. casey could have been drugging her. drugging someone is harming them. i agree though that by this stage of development caylee could have told anyone pretty much anything. i'm sure casey was more aware of that than anyone, she had a lot to hide after all.



    leaving home for the first time and getting a job that pays enough money to become entirely self sufficient and have enough left over to go partying w/ no education beyond high school is not 'the easy route'.



    w/ what money from what job would she do this? her own boyfriend wouldn't even let her stay at his place if he wasn't in town, she would have needed a place of her own and don't you think she might be a teensy weensy bit angry to find herself feeling that she needs to find a new place to live and start working for a living all b/c caylee can't keep her mouth shut?



    so what in the name of gawd would then make casey invent an imaginary kidnapping? is she covering for the perp? is she afraid that the entire orlando police dept are no match for this superbeing and he'll do what exactly? he's already killed her child, it can't get worse, and if for some reason she thinks her parents could be targets then wouldn't she call the police for help in protecting them or is it safer to go partying and not even tell them their lives are in immediate peril?



    caylee didn't get harmed, caylee got murdered and we don't know about what casey may or may not have done to caylee in the past so we don't know if there is a 'history of harm' or not. maybe what changed is that caylee got old enough to speak, to be a nuisance, to get her mother in so much trouble w/ her mother that she'd be out on her a$$.



    and if that were the case then the body would have needed to be left in plain view or she wouldn't get the 'message' so there would be no point in the 'message' (not triple bagged and hidden in the brush at a dumping site where it lay undiscovered for months) and casey would have called the cops, wanting vengence for this terrible crime and the knowledge that her remaining family would be safe when the police caught the offender instead of leaving him roaming the streets to kill again whenever he felt like it.



    i think maybe her mouth was taped during a rage attack and i agree that her age played a big part in this. it would be hard for casey to use denial and evasion as a way out of being responsible for a growing child (and her mouth) w/o it also being a way out of having a roof over her head, food to eat and a near endless source of stolen and cadged cash.
    Do we know just how verbal Caylee was at this age? In the videos available that I've seen, the only words that I could make out that she was saying was "mama, papa" during her reading the story at the nursing home. Also, she had learned to sing "you are my sunshine", however some kids rote memory is pretty good by the age of 2 1/2 to almost 3 and can learn simple songs like that. I haven't seen her being very talkative in the videos made available... to where she is having a simple childish conversation anyway. I was wondering how much information (about her mother) she could relay to GA and CA and if this would be a reason that she was killed? JMO

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