I have dealt with a sociopath relative. The worst thing I have seen is to indulge/enable them. I can look up my cousin's myspace page. He is in his early 30's and he'll have his occupation listed as "Record Producer" and he earns 500k per year.
The truth is that his parents have mortgaged their home numerous times because he steals from them. He is highly abusive towards them and they offer no resistance. Point blank they will tell you he is a good "kid". They have bent over backwards to hide his police record claiming the police have a grudge with him. He lives with them and has never worked. The police record is a mile long and lucky for him his parents intervened in every instance making the sentence minor.
Growing up close to him I can tell you straight up that the only time I have ever seen him smile or have any legitimate emotion was when about 10 he laughed with glee when he held his sister down and stuck a hot curling iron to her back. His parents didn't even take the curling iron away! They tried to explain to him it was wrong while he was burning his sister! 99% of the time he is stoic and unemotional.
The rest of the family avoids them now. Nobody wants to hear their same old stories about the horrible things he has done because they never stand up to him to at least try to correct him. Strangely he is very different towards my family because I think it is clear we don't want to hear his BS stories and if he acts crazy someone will probably put a shoe in his mouth.
My aunt/uncle are very much like the Anthony's except they haven't covered up for a murder but, I'm telling you now they would, even if it were their spouse/daughter/nephew. The most recent excursion was dumping his mother's head in the toilet because she wanted her credit card back. His father begged him to stop and called the police. My uncle then lied against his own wife claiming it was her fault.
I could go step by step with you how they created him but, that would take pages. Needless to say, they never told him no and meant it. He might be as emotional as rock but, he should know logically at least what is right and wrong.
Yup-----Lotsa stories out there--huh, leophoenix. Sad but true. Sorry for your Aunt and Uncle. Hope they survive.
GA: "...I mean I’m not a stupid guy...”
Det. Hussey: “I think you’re, I think you’re a guy that knows a lot about a lot of things, George.”
(LE interview 8-4-08)
"THE MAN OF THE HOUR"
4/2/09 Jose B.
"I'm Sorry??? What Law School did you go to Kathy???"
Ladybass... I commend you for being such an honorable person. I cannot find within myself to rise to that level of compassion for the Anthonys. Please KNOW I sincerely mean that statement. It is not sarcasm.
For me, if the Anthonys would have searched long & hard for their grandchild and ONLY come onto the media begging for help to find Caylee. It would have endeared me to them.
If the Anthony's would have kept their mouth shut about their feelings, opinions and concerns about their daughter KC and kept complete focus on what mattered - the missing child Caylee, they would have my compassion.
On my end as a 'spectator' in this sad saga, I have seen endless lies, countless attempts of cover ups, accusations and finger pointing outright blaming us for 'killing Caylee' and utter contempt for those who actually wanted to sincerely help. It makes it so very hard to find any compassion within myself for these people.
I've spoken a lot to my hubby about this case. MORE than he cares to hear, I'm sure. Our consensus though and how we raise our own children is to be fully accountable for their actions, no matter the consequences. Even if I felt that my child may or is innocent, I would beg & plead for the public to help me find Caylee, not to attempt to sway public opinion. I would beg for the focus to be about my grandchild over and over... I know that I would.
If I saw the A's on TV each and every night for months telling the world the areas that they searched today, the future plans & search parties, continually asking for any and all help and accepting any and ALL help, no matter if that search party was looking for a 'dead body... I would have a heart for them.
I would do anything for my grandchildren. Absolutely anything. And most of all, I would never for 1 second, accept any monies that would be remotely tied to Caylee, her name, her image or her death. It wouldn't even be a consideration and no amount of negotiating or 'reasoning' would have me change my mind.
For me, hearing confirmed reports that they have truly earned in excess of $250,000 for pictures, videos & interviews sickens me to the core. It rips my heart out to hear that Caylee & her murder had a price tag.
So that's my thoughts, beliefs & inability to be able to find compassion for the A's. If you could find a way to turn them completely around and ONLY EVER speak about Caylee, her murder and EVEN 1/2 hearted attempt to pretend to find the real killer of their granddaughter... I would truly try my best to listen with an open heart & mind.
Last edited by PattyCake; 04-25-2009 at 03:05 AM. Reason: grammar error
Only my opinion, no one else need agree.
I do feel compassion for George and Cindy (and Lee). They are going through something I hope to never have to face.
I do not believe that by my having empathy for George and Cindy, by my having mercy on them, by my trying to overlook some of the confusing things they have done, and the mistakes they have made, that I am dishonoring Caylee.
Caring about what George and Cindy are suffering does not cancel out caring about what little Caylee suffered. I don't understand why many people seem to believe the two are mutually exclusive.
The main reason I can feel empathy for them is because, as another poster noted, it was obvious they loved Caylee very much and tried to do whatever they could for her. It was easy to see she was the bright spot of their lives. Now they have lost that forever.
Another reason is because I don't know what is in their hearts and minds, what their motives are, or what they are feeling. I don't know that about any other human being.
I can only imagine what they're going through, and it isn't pretty.
Also, I believe that is what Caylee would want. If she is looking down from heaven, I believe she is very sad for them and would want them to be comforted. She would not want them to have any added pain. I believe it would make her sad to see them judged and criticized so harshly. Therefore, IMO, showing them compassion and mercy is honoring Caylee. She would not want people to judge and hate them and express their disgust for them.
I also do not think that I would come out smelling like a rose if every conversation I had, everything I'd written, practically every idle thought, was suddenly public knowledge. If my conversations were recorded and subsequently dissected and taken out of context I doubt I would fare well either.
Yes, dissecting conversations, writing, actions, events, clues, etc. is what we do at WS. But we do it to solve crimes, to find out the facts, to get at the truth, not to judge and condemn, that is the job of LE, the State, and, ultimately, God. I don't believe our focus should be holding people up to our moral standards or code of ethics, because every persons are different. I believe our focus should be sorting out the known facts and trying to discover new ones.
And, finally, I cannot condemn GA, CA, LA, or even KC, yet, because I don't know what actually happened. We don't have all the facts yet, and none of us saw what happened with our own eyes. Much of the judging that goes on is based on assumption and I don't think that's fair.
Thanks, Ladybass, for this thread and the opportunity to share on this subject.
"When we are born we cry that we are come
To this great stage of fools."
Thanks for sharing your thoughts/feelings with us on this sad matter. I appreciate your ability to disagree with another poster in such a graceful manner.
I would like to respectfully comment re: the confirmed reports of the A's receiving this money ($250,000) for pics of Caylee. I have seen many posters saying this, but the only report of this, outside of possible media rumors, is in the interview LE did of D. Casey. In the interview he stated that he was told by JH that Baez recieved this amount, possibly on the behalf of KC, for videos of Caylee. Casey specifically says that George and Cindy did not receive this money.
So, what I'm saying is that this report was secondhand, and it wasn't about George and Cindy. And, even if it is true about Baez receiving it on KC's behalf, it isn't confirmed as yet.
If there is other information out there concerning this that I'm unaware of, please someone feel free tp point me in that direction.
"When we are born we cry that we are come
To this great stage of fools."
did she get a life by killing Caylee? Is 31 days of partying, followed by life in jail, possibly on death row, then the freedom she earned when she murdered her baby?
Some victim; some freedom.
IF I PUT IT HERE ITS MY OPINION. apparently i have no idea when i need to say that in a post, so this should cover it....IN MY OPINION anyways,
welcome to the gates of hell JVDS.
Jose Baez: “I sincerely believe that when we have finally spoken, everyone, and I mean everyone, will sit back and say, ‘Now, I understand. That explains it.’”
Jose Baez to da judge :
".....that type of testing is unique. we requested that they be allowed to test items and that of course was objected to by the state and and uh the state uh granted or sustained their objection, denied our opportunity to have him test these items due to a very specialized field, subfield, of dna that he is one of the pioneers of uh in the alternative of we were granted the ability to test certain items by an outside lab...."
My feelings towards the A's are they bagged Caylee up like her mother did and threw her away like garbage. When it became all about KC that blew it for me. It has not been about Caylee for months. It is all about Princess Gorgeous and how she can do no wrong, Mother of the Year yada yada yada.
I did have sympathy for them until they could not stop lying and covering up for KC. Caylee just faded out of the picture. I would not want to be in their shoes ever. I cannot even imagine the pain they must be feeling. Them enabling all the things that have happened has been a huge part of the media circus they find themselves in. CA is 99% responsible for this with running her mouth and not letting well enough alone.
She is willing to throw totally innocent people under the bus to save KC. That does not sound to loving or caring to me. She said from the start she would use the media however she had to use them. Boy, that was one true statement. I find no defense for them and their behavior. Just because you are in pain yourself does not mean you can go and inflict it on someone totally innocent. Yet they have chosen to do this over and over again to countless people. Tim Miller is a prime example. What did he ever do to them but try and bring the baby home. What they wanted and asked him to come for. Then when CA thought her Caylee money might dry up she turned on him like a snake. No dead child, we must look for a LIVE Caylee.
I am sorry I wish I could feel the passion you all feel towards them. I just cannot do it. They have proved over and over their true intentions. I just hope their is a jail cell with their name on it when the trial for Gorgeous is all over. I do not know about you but I was taught right from wrong. We do not lie, cheat or work the system to get our own way. We abide by the rules and laws of our country regardless of who we are. What they have done during all of this nothing but wrong. In my eyes there is no defense for them or their actions.
Thanks, but no thanks.
I suspect George and Cindy of a heck of a lot more than just making bad choices. I see no reason to afford them any more of my compassion as they squandered the first portion.
Justice for CAYLEE
this is a very good post....
Sad... But T R U T H F U L ! ! !
Little CAYLEE is indeed Not here...
and GA/CA are so delusional or how ever you spell it....
Out of touch with reality.... so blinded by their own /fear/hurt/anger/
it is just UNREAL ! ! !
but at any time.... Their eyes could be opened... this is probably
a human defense to protect them from going totally insane
with the reality of their own flesh in blood daughter taking the
life of her toddler ( 2 year CAYLEE) their only flesh in blood Granddaughter.... & at this point and time in GA/CA lives...
this is all they can handle and believe...
Later in life they might come to more realization of the facts...
MAYBE NOT !
I will continue to pray for them... as I would hope people would
continue to pray for me !
*** I might be old fashion... but I still believe
GOD IS STILL IN THE MIRACLE BUSINESS & GOD Allows
people to make C H O I C E S ~ to Change their lives ! ! ! ***
~ ~ ~ He Allowed me to * C H O O S E * to C H A N G E ! ! ! !
God Bless !
***Seeking ~JUSTICE~ PRAYING FOR PEACE & JOY FOR THOSE WHO NEED IT * * * ONE DAY @ A TIME ! ! !:Justice:
Thanks to ladybass0711 for this thread, and to all who posted their opinions. I find it very difficult to disagree with any of the posters here...I'm not wishy-washy, I think it just speaks to how complex this situation is, and how much the WSers care about Caylee. And also the reason I'm so proud to be a member.
I think it takes a really nice, kind hearted person to be able to feel sorry for the Anthony's.....with that being said, I simply can't feel sorry for them....not one bit.....because they continue to do what they do to protect and cover for their daughter....whether or not she's had a trial or not really isn't the point....I mean c'mon, do we really need a trial to know she's guilty? I mean technically yes....and yes she does deserve a fair trial, but I'd say about 99% of people who know this case have no doubt who killed Caylee! And for them (The Anthony's) to keep this "Casey didn't do it" world tour, is ridiculous!! Because they're not happy to just support and love their daughter, they want everyone else to feel the same way and that's just not going to happen....I think the issue for me at least, is the "All about me" attitude of Casey and her parents who not only buy into it but do their best to make everyone else buy into it too! Casey would rather drag her family through the mud, cost the state millions, etc, then come clean......and her family knows her best, they tried to give warnings to people....why do you think that is? Because they know her....they know she's not a good person in general! So to now backtrack just because her butt is on the line isn't right....it isn't fair to Caylee, and just because I wouldn't want to be in The Anthony's situation, doesn't give them a pass! I don't think anyone would fault them at all for loving and supporting their daughter.... it's the covering for their daughter.....the whole, "My kid isn't a murderer" thing....you'd have to have a pretty big ego to think your child couldn't be a murderer for no other reason than it's your child....and for me at least, it's that selfishness that makes it impossible for me to feel any sympathy for the Anthony's....we all know people like that in our daily lives, the "All about me" people who can't ever look at the other person's point of view...me me me....they don't do anything unless it benefits them somehow.....and then there's their parent(s)....right there to cover for their son or daughter....since the child was knee high...right or wrong, there they are, defending their child....some parents mistake this for love....but they don't teach their child anything other than how to be "All about me"....they think there's no limit to how much you can love a child or how much you can do for a child and take no consideration in how their making their kid a spoiled rotten brat!....there's no black or white....right or wrong....just me me me!! Well that's Cindy....in my opinion.....she might have told certain friends to stay away from Casey....but when push came to shove, she defended Casey....even to her own mother!! Cindy's mom said she didn't want to press charges because of Cindy and Caylee....also she said Cindy told her she(Cindy) would pay her(grandma) back.....I mean right there....why wasn't it, "I'll make sure Casey pays you back mom" from Cindy? It was "I'LL pay you back".....it's ridiculous....so every time someone thinks about how bad the Anthony's got it, keep in mind they've done most of this themselves! Instead of justice for Caylee, George sits up on the early show on CBS and complains about how no other case gets this much exposure...what?? They wanted the exposure when they were "looking" for Caylee but now that it's working against Casey, it's too much....No George, you guys are too much!!
It really doesn't do any good to tell other people how they should react to the A family. I personally feel that the one person who has been "doubly a victim" is Caylee. She had no power and no choices and couldn't defend herself, and now she's gone. Everything else is less significant than that, IMO. The adults making questionable or awful choices in the aftermath of her murder will have to deal with the consequences of those choices. That's what responsible adults do. It can't be avoided in a real world that has other inhabitants with rights, laws, a court system, etc. Sometimes I think the endless analysis and debate about these people ends up just being a sideshow that detracts from the focus on Caylee alone and the real issues. Maybe that is intended. It's a long time until trial and there are a lot of the ups and downs of litigation yet to come. I sometimes think the best thing we could all do is ignore them, no matter how much they take to the public stage and insert themselves into the public debate. But of course I know it isn't for me to say.
Feelings are NOT ~ Right or Wrong they belong to the individual !
Opinions belongs to each person & Thank God we do have the
right to voice our opinion.... that is within "REASON"
*** JMO This is a Tragic Case & very complex & yes.... it
could happen to anyone...
THANKS WEBSLEUTHERS for ALL THE GREAT WORK !
***Seeking ~JUSTICE~ PRAYING FOR PEACE & JOY FOR THOSE WHO NEED IT * * * ONE DAY @ A TIME ! ! !:Justice:
However, most sociopaths do not commit violent crimes. Some are quite successful in business or politics, because they are not impeded by normal feelings.
Some commit white collar crimes, however. And, many of them marry, a lot, and have addictive disorders.
A chief strategy, however, is confronting lies and removing privileges in the presence of bad behavior.
A crime committed by the child would get the normal consequences.
For instance, a young man vandalized a car. His father reported him, and he spent a brief time in jail. After his release, his father got him a summer job digging house foundations on a construction crew. He never did anything like that again, having learned that crime has consequences. He didn't like the consequences, because they impinged on his personal freedoms.
The strategy is setting behavioral boundaries and enforcing them. Not caving to tantrums, manipulations, or acting out.
If KC had been arrested the FIRST time she stole, she might have decided that crime is too expensive in terms of personal freedoms. By endorsing her lies and repeatedly bailing her out of trouble, she learned that her parents will always protect her from the consequences of her action.
I recently had a young sociopathic male, on my caseload. He was in a day treatment program for a co-morbidity (psychiatry doesn't work on sociopathy). He broke into a locked office, to play with the computers. He was immediately put into a more restrictive program level, for a few weeks. He never did it, again.
BTW-- LOVE the White Album!:-)
Age. Fac ut gaudeam
I do have 1 question about that. They had huge financial issues from the time Caylee was missing, I am curious how they are paying all their bills and surviving. Without either of them working, there has to be a financial source somewhere.
Only my opinion, no one else need agree.
I believe if the A's or KC could find a way to implicate anyone here, including you Ladybass, they would in a heart beat. So I would say, be careful who you bring into your heart, it just makes it easier for some people to hurt you.
The A's and the daughter they are so proud of, have damaged nearly everyone who has tried to help them. Only time will tell who they will go after next, JG, TonE, A, but you can take it to the bank, there will be a lot of people pushed on to the tracks before this is over.
I do not believe they care one bit who they hurt in the attempt to free their guilty daughter.
I have been mostly lurking here, but I feel I must say this. My 19yr daughter is bi-polar. Everyday it it a test of wills with us as to what boundaries are acceptable and what are not. I refuse to treat my daughter any differently, or let her "get away with" things that teenagers should NOT get away with. She knows right from wrong, and is punished when she steps out from the rules and boundaries that we all as parents must teach our kids. The Ant's, imo failed miserably at this. They enabled kc and continue to do so, at the expensive of an innocent baby. I feel nothing but hatred for them , may God forgive me.
Answer to PattyCake's question above:
I'm sure they found a way to scheme themselves into the Social Security Disability Program. That would be a perfect life style for these two charlatans. My opinion only.