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  1. #1
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    RDI, which sentences in RN is PR, which JR

    Quote Originally Posted by TinaD View Post
    I think the odd spacings can be explained quite easily if, as many people feel, John was dictating parts of the note to Patsy and she was stopping and starting rather than writing in a flow of her own thoughts.

    I really don't think there was any "forger" trying to set Patsy up - the only one setting her up was JR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    I agree with that, it makes total sense.
    Interesting hypothesis to test.

    So which parts of the notes are PR own thoughts, and which JR dictating to PR based on your theory of odd spacing, and other characteristics. I think the easiest way to do this is via bracketing JR's contribution. You may examine the original hand written scan and its "odd spacings" to determine which sentences has JR dictating to PR.

    http://www.thedenverchannel.com/2006/0818/9699449.jpg

    Mr. Ramsey

    Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We xx respect your bussiness [sic] but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our posession [sic]. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.

    You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 am tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange and earlier delivery of the money and hence a [sic] earlier delivery pick-up of your daughter.

    Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them. Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I., etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies. You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us John. Use that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now John!

    Victory!

    S.B.T.C.

  2. #2
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    Hi voynich.

    Another cool, idea...r for a thread!

    I'll def come back to ya with some thoughts on this concept.
    gotta go do some yard work.

  3. #3
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    The wide indentations at the beginning of each paragraph is an example of how a reporter, or someone experienced in writing for publication begins a new parapraph. It has to do with showing the proof reader a new graph is beginning.
    In the days Patsy, and myself included, studied journalism, we used good old fashioned typewriters in newsrooms or journalism lab classes. The journalist was taught to go in at least 6 to 8 spaces on the tab to make the new paragraph begin.
    Even years later, when the newspapers began using computers or word processors, large spacy indents where still used.
    I've written posts about this in the past and the similarities I see in the ransom "letter" and how it appears written by someone trained to use a "newspaper or publication style" who printed this "letter." There's evidence of certain way words or other phrases or punctuation and capitalization is used that points to a person trained in journalism. Every publication has a specific style of writing; most use what's called AP Style.
    And, I have taken some heat from people who say I'm all wet. But, I look at the ransom letter with an eye specifically trained in a certain field. And I see the hand of a journalist!
    It becomes second hand to use the rules in everything you right after you've been trained to do it.
    Every letter I write, looks like a press release. It's a part of putting things down on paper, wether printing or typing.
    And, I'm standing by that experience I've lived for over 40 years.
    jmo
    The Hokey Pokey Clinic - A good place to turn yourself around:

  4. #4
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    Listen Carefully!

    Well, I will have to get back with ya on the rest of the RN, but...IMO...Listen Carefully was John talking to Patsy. It wasn't intended for the RN. As in..."Okay Patsy I am going to help you with this fake ransom note. Are you ready?" Patsy: "Yes John, go ahead". John: "Listen Carefully"....and then the RN begins...well, it was SUPPOSED to have began there, but Patsy thought that Listen Carefully was part of it. IMO IOW..John didn't want Patsy to screw it up...so he said..."listen carefully" TO HER....telling HER to listen carefully. Not intending for her to write those words on a sheet of paper. (How do you listen to something that you are reading? You READ carefully, or read this carefully...but, you don't listen carefully. What exactly is the reader of the RN supposed to be listening carefully TO?)
    "This time we get it right."

  5. #5
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    An alternative explanation is that Listen Carefully is a paraphrase from movies or books, including Dirty Harry

    "Now listen to me carefully."
    "Now listen. Listen very carefully."

    If I loved Dirty Harry as much as Star Wars, I would say "Listen" rather than "read".

    Another possible explanation is that this is a habit of speech -- the writer prefers to say listen rather than read. "Listen to my directions" -- if JR in his letters prefers to say listen rather than read when read would be a better choice, this would be very strong evidence in your favor.

    I'm not entirely sure read carefully is necessarily better....

    Read carefully! .... You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills......

    vs

    Listen carefully! ....You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills.....

    Listen to my directions v.s Read my directions
    Author may have intended or thought RN would be read aloud, to wife or LE.

    OR are you suggesting that JR intended the letter to start like this

    "Mr. Ramsey"

    "We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We xx respect your bussiness [sic] but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our posession [sic]. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter."



    Do you have supporting evidence in the form of character spacing/formation that reflects dictation rather than original thought?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    An alternative explanation is that Listen Carefully is a paraphrase from movies or books, including Dirty Harry

    "Now listen to me carefully."
    "Now listen. Listen very carefully."

    If I loved Dirty Harry as much as Star Wars, I would say "Listen" rather than "read".

    Another possible explanation is that this is a habit of speech -- the writer prefers to say listen rather than read. "Listen to my directions" -- if JR in his letters prefers to say listen rather than read when read would be a better choice, this would be very strong evidence in your favor.

    I'm not entirely sure read carefully is necessarily better....

    Read carefully! .... You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills......

    vs

    Listen carefully! ....You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills.....

    Listen to my directions v.s Read my directions
    Author may have intended or thought RN would be read aloud, to wife or LE.

    OR are you suggesting that JR intended the letter to start like this

    "Mr. Ramsey"

    "We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We xx respect your bussiness [sic] but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our posession [sic]. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter."



    Do you have supporting evidence in the form of character spacing/formation that reflects dictation rather than original thought?
    Yes, the "Listen Carefully" was uncalled for, if this was an actual RN. As I said before...Read this carefully, or Pay Close Attention....or anything other than LISTEN carefully, would have made more sense. Besides, if the RN had of STARTED off with...MR. Ramsey, WE HAVE YOUR DAUGHTER....and it had of been a real RN, I don't believe that JR would have had to have been told to LISTEN CAREFULLY...or READ THIS CAREFULLY. The RN was a fake...
    "This time we get it right."

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    Yes, the "Listen Carefully" was uncalled for, if this was an actual RN. As I said before...Read this carefully, or Pay Close Attention....or anything other than LISTEN carefully, would have made more sense. Besides, if the RN had of STARTED off with...MR. Ramsey, WE HAVE YOUR DAUGHTER....and it had of been a real RN, I don't believe that JR would have had to have been told to LISTEN CAREFULLY...or READ THIS CAREFULLY. The RN was a fake...
    "Listen carefully" is taken from a movie.......most likely Dirty Harry. Listen carefully does not make sense, when someone is reading the note....but adds credence that the writer made it a note full of movie lines. There was some preparation in writing the note---IMO, the perp watched Dirty Harry shortly before writing the note.
    Last edited by Maikai; 04-27-2009 at 09:21 AM. Reason: add

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai View Post
    "Listen carefully" is taken from a movie.......most likely Dirty Harry. Listen carefully does not make sense, when someone is reading the note....but adds credence that the writer made it a note full of movie lines. There was some preparation in writing the note---IMO, the perp watched Dirty Harry shortly before writing the note.
    Well exactly.

    If I were to write an RN, my apprentice SD would know........


    John,
    LIsten to me! Don't continue to be a pawn to the US gov't. Ever since I've known you, you've been looking for a life greater than that of an ordinary executive, a life of conscious.

    SD would know that

    John,
    Read this! Don't continue to be a pawn to the US gov't. Ever since I've known you, you've been looking for a life greater than that of an ordinary executive, a life of conscious.

    Wouldn't work. Sith Lords listen, they don't read.


    Maybe the perp knew the note would be read ALOUD. (i.e wife, kid, LE)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    Yes, the "Listen Carefully" was uncalled for, if this was an actual RN. As I said before...Read this carefully, or Pay Close Attention....or anything other than LISTEN carefully, would have made more sense. Besides, if the RN had of STARTED off with...MR. Ramsey, WE HAVE YOUR DAUGHTER....and it had of been a real RN, I don't believe that JR would have had to have been told to LISTEN CAREFULLY...or READ THIS CAREFULLY. The RN was a fake...
    So is the character spacing, construction, letter formation in "listen carefully" usefull in identifying elsewhere JR's thoughts? Does the next sentence,

    "We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We xx respect your bussiness [sic] but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our posession [sic]. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter"

    PR or JR and how do you know?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    Interesting hypothesis to test.

    So which parts of the notes are PR own thoughts, and which JR dictating to PR based on your theory of odd spacing, and other characteristics. I think the easiest way to do this is via bracketing JR's contribution. You may examine the original hand written scan and its "odd spacings" to determine which sentences has JR dictating to PR.

    http://www.thedenverchannel.com/2006/0818/9699449.jpg

    Mr. Ramsey

    Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We xx respect your bussiness [sic] but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our posession [sic]. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.

    You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills.
    Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 am tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange and earlier delivery of the money and hence a [sic] earlier delivery pick-up of your daughter.

    Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them. Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I., etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies. You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us John. Use that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now John!

    Victory!

    S.B.T.C.
    The bolded parts are what I think JR contributed. Just the bare bones, really. Which I think he wanted to keep it to.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    Well exactly.
    Hmph.

    If I were to write an RN, my apprentice SD would know........


    John,
    LIsten to me! Don't continue to be a pawn to the US gov't. Ever since I've known you, you've been looking for a life greater than that of an ordinary executive, a life of conscious.

    SD would know that
    That I would.

    But then, PR's mother couldn't tell the difference either.

    John,
    Read this! Don't continue to be a pawn to the US gov't. Ever since I've known you, you've been looking for a life greater than that of an ordinary executive, a life of conscious.

    Wouldn't work. Sith Lords listen, they don't read.


    Maybe the perp knew the note would be read ALOUD. (i.e wife, kid, LE)
    Voynich, remind me to introduce you to Occam's Razor sometime.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Hmph.


    Voynich, remind me to introduce you to Occam's Razor sometime.
    Applied here, it is that 1 person alone wrote the note. How did you decide JR's contribution ends

    "You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    Applied here, it is that 1 person alone wrote the note.
    Impressive. Most impressive. (I can live with that idea, BTW.) But specifically, I was referring to the choice you posited.

    How did you decide JR's contribution ends
    "You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills."
    Well for one, it's very to the point. Everything else is very "flourishy."
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Impressive. Most impressive. (I can live with that idea, BTW.) But specifically, I was referring to the choice you posited.
    You'll find I'm full of surprises?


    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Well for one, it's very to the point. Everything else is very "flourishy."


    We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We xx respect your bussiness [sic] but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our posession [sic]. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.

    SD, you have allowed this Dark Lord to twist your mind until you have become the very thing you swore against.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    You'll find I'm full of surprises?
    Of that, I have no doubt.

    SD, you have allowed this Dark Lord to twist your mind until you have become the very thing you swore against.
    Don't lecture ME, voynich. I see through the lies of the IDI.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

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