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  1. #1
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    barbara mackle ransom note discredits some RDI RN pet theories

    "I hear you have a new apprentice" You can not defeat me. He will be more powerful than either of us."


    RDI myth "at three pages the RN is the longest rn note on record" -- ST. "It's the War and Peace (reference to Tolstoy's book) of rn" "most rn are short."

    http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

    "One of the first things we notice is that this is a very long ransom note. Most ransom notes are short and to the point. "We have your kid and she is safe. It will cost you $400,000 to get her back. Do not call the police. We will be contacting you." This ransom note was written on three pieces of paper. This is our first clue this note may be bogus. "

    The myth
    "real kidnappers don't write three page ransom notes"
    "It is the longest rn ever written in the annals of crime"
    "The R's must have written it due to length, they couldn't shut up."

    Many RDI myths center on the length of the RN, 3 pages, the "longest on record" as unsual. This letter shows that many such myths need to be seriously revived in light of this twice as long RN below.

    the truth?
    The JB RN weighs in at 377 words. What follows now is another RN, Barabara's ransom note, BRN which has 970 words. 970/377 = 2.6 times as long.

    This BRN is more than twice the length of the RN. Written
    This case is December 17, 1968 Barbara Jane Mackle (born 1948) who may have lived near PR as a child due to events in Atlanta Georgia. So there is a time link and a geography link. Their lives overlap.

    The 970 words begins here:

    Sir, your daughter has been kidnapped by us and we now
    hold her for ransom. She is quite safe, if somewhat
    uncomfortable. We offer no proof of our possession of her
    at this time. It will arrive by mail in a few days. Barbara is
    presently alive inside a small capsule buried in a remote
    piece of soil. She has enough food and water and air to
    last seven days. At the end of the seven days the life supporting
    batteries will be discharged and her air supply will be cut off.

    The box is waterproof and very strong-fiberglass reinforced
    plywood-she has little chance of escaping. The box is in an unusual and lonely place. She has no chance of being accidently stumbled upon.

    Contemplate, if you will, the position into which this puts
    you. If you pay the ransom prior to seven days,
    we will tell you of her whereabouts. Should you catch the
    messenger we send to pick up the ransom, we will simply
    not say anything to anyone and ergo Barbara will
    suffocate. The messenger knows only one of us and he will report to us via radio from the pickup site. We will
    immediately know his fate.

    Should you catch all, of us we will never admit anything as to do
    so would be suicide and again-she will die. As you can see, you don't want to catch us for to do so would be condemning your lovely and intelligent daughter to death. The police may allow you to have a free hand prior to the return of your daughter
    should you be so callous as to contact them. If you ask the police to advise you in this matter please be aware that
    their very presence will scare us off. We can see no way for you to secure the safe return of your daughter other than to obey instructions explicitly.

    1) Although we will always anticipate the involvement of the police in this situation, be assured that if your communication with them or their actual presence is detected, we will break off negotiations with you immediately. We have tied into several
    of the possible means of communications that you have with the police and feel that you will be unable to contact them without our
    knowledge.

    2) The ransom will be $500,000 in recently issued $20 bills. Here are the requirements you must meet in this matter:
    The notes must not be older than 1950 issue.
    No more than ten notes must have consecutive serial numbers; ie., the notes must have a great variety of serial-numbers and not be merely shuffled.
    The notes must be Federal Reserve notes of standard configuration.

    No more than one-half of the notes may be uncirculated.

    No form of marking on the bills is acceptable. Please note that the bills will undergo a minimum of eight hours of intense examination before we allow you to have knowledge of the subject's whereabouts. We have planned a series of 44 tests on a large representative of the bills. These tests include every chemical and physical test of any remote applicability.


    No omission, shaving, spotting, cutting, counterfeiting, irradiating, ad nos will go undetected.

    3) The bills should occupy no more than 400 cubic inches and thusly fit into a standard large suitcase of inside dimensions 31.5" longx18.75" highx6.25" deep. Purchase such a suitcase and lock the bills inside.
    When you have the money in readiness, call all the Miami
    area major newspapers and place the following ad in the "personal" section of the classified advertisemsnts:

    "Loved one-please come home. We will pay all expenses
    and meet you anywhere at anytime. Your Family."

    Prepare your car for a trip and on the night of the ad's first appearance we will call you at home after midnight to advise you of where you must go to deliver the money. You must be the one to deliver the money, Robert. You will dress yourself in an all-white outfit. You must use the Lincoln to deliver the money.

    In order to prevent the instructional call being traced it will be very brief and no portion of it will be repeated. If the phone rings more than three times or the connection takes longer than 15 seconds we will not contact you. You will have a limited period of time to make the rendezvous so you should be ready to leave your house within one minute of receiving the phone call in order to be within the time limit. You will proceed to the area of the meeting within the legal speed limit as if you were in no hurry. We will not meet you if you fail to show within the time limit which is only a short time longer than you will require to drive to the pickup site. Any unusual police activity or other activity in the area of the pick up will cancel the appointment.

    When you arrive at the pick up site you will know it by a signal of three short flashes repeated continuously from a flashlight directed at the windshield of your car. When you see the signal you will stop the car and immediately take the suitcase toward the light. The light will be mounted on the top of a box. The suitcase should be placed within the box. You will then return to your car and proceed back up the street, in the direction from which you came and go home.

    Any deviation from this outline will result in your death.
    Our messenger will have you in his sights from the time you leave your car. Within twelve hours after you deliver the money you will receive another call advising you of your daughter's whereabouts. A letter will be sent also to insure the findings of your daughter.

    Yes you just finished reading 970 words. The JB RN is 377 words.

    In comparison to the work I did on LLRN and RN, there is very little overlap between BRN and RN.

    I'll give time for other volunteers to show both similarities and differences and conclusion.

  2. #2
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    barbara mackle ransom note discredits some RDI RN pet theories

    The following BRN is not present in RN

    BRN attempts to prove kidnapping
    . We offer no proof of our possession of her
    at this time. It will arrive by mail in a few days.
    RN does not


    BRN names daughter
    Barbara is
    presently alive

    Barbara's cell is not present in RN

    inside a small capsule buried in a remote
    piece of soil. She has enough food and water and air to
    last seven days. At the end of the seven days the life supporting
    batteries will be discharged and her air supply will be cut off.

    The box is waterproof and very strong-fiberglass reinforced
    plywood-she has little chance of escaping. The box is in an unusual and lonely place. She has no chance of being accidently stumbled upon.

    BRN has complicated go-between not present in RN

    Contemplate, if you will, the position into which this puts
    you. If you pay the ransom prior to seven days,
    we will tell you of her whereabouts. Should you catch the
    messenger we send to pick up the ransom, we will simply
    not say anything to anyone and ergo Barbara will
    suffocate. The messenger knows only one of us and he will report to us via radio from the pickup site. We will
    immediately know his fate.


    Should you catch all, of us we will never admit anything as to do
    so would be suicide and again-she will die. As you can see, you don't want to catch us for to do so would be condemning your lovely and intelligent daughter to death. The police may allow you to have a free hand prior to the return of your daughter
    should you be so callous as to contact them. If you ask the police to advise you in this matter please be aware that
    their very presence will scare us off. We can see no way for you to secure the safe return of your daughter other than to obey instructions explicitly.


    is a far from from "police tactics and countermeasures"

    detail for money far surpass RN

    2) The ransom will be $500,000 in recently issued $20 bills. Here are the requirements you must meet in this matter:
    The notes must not be older than 1950 issue.
    No more than ten notes must have consecutive serial numbers; ie., the notes must have a great variety of serial-numbers and not be merely shuffled.
    The notes must be Federal Reserve notes of standard configuration.

    No more than one-half of the notes may be uncirculated.

    No form of marking on the bills is acceptable. Please note that the bills will undergo a minimum of eight hours of intense examination before we allow you to have knowledge of the subject's whereabouts. We have planned a series of 44 tests on a large representative of the bills. These tests include every chemical and physical test of any remote applicability.


    No omission, shaving, spotting, cutting, counterfeiting, irradiating, ad nos will go undetected.

    3) The bills should occupy no more than 400 cubic inches and thusly fit into a standard large suitcase of inside dimensions 31.5" longx18.75" highx6.25" deep. Purchase such a suitcase and lock the bills inside.
    When you have the money in readiness, call all the Miami
    area major newspapers and place the following ad in the "personal" section of the classified advertisemsnts:



    Use of major newspapers not attested in RN

    "When you have the money in readiness, call all the Miami
    area major newspapers and place the following ad in the "personal" section of the classified advertisemsnts:

    "Loved one-please come home. We will pay all expenses
    and meet you anywhere at anytime. Your Family."

    Prepare your car for a trip and on the night of the ad's first appearance we will call you at home after midnight to advise you of where you must go to deliver the money. You must be the one to deliver the money, Robert. You will dress yourself in an all-white outfit. You must use the Lincoln to deliver the mo"

    future communications offered in detail not present in RN

    "In order to prevent the instructional call being traced it will be very brief and no portion of it will be repeated. If the phone rings more than three times or the connection takes longer than 15 seconds we will not contact you. You will have a limited period of time to make the rendezvous so you should be ready to leave your house within one minute of receiving the phone call in order to be within the time limit. You will proceed to the area of the meeting within the legal speed limit as if you were in no hurry. We will not meet you if you fail to show within the time limit which is only a short time longer than you will require to drive to the pickup site. Any unusual police activity or other activity in the area of the pick up will cancel the appointment."


    When you arrive at the pick up site you will know it by a signal of three short flashes repeated continuously from a flashlight directed at the windshield of your car. When you see the signal you will stop the car and immediately take the suitcase toward the light. The light will be mounted on the top of a box. The suitcase should be placed within the box. You will then return to your car and proceed back up the street, in the direction from which you came and go home.

    has no parallel in RN


    A match!
    Any deviation from this outline will result in your death.
    Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter.


    Our messenger will have you in his sights from the time you leave your car. Within twelve hours after you deliver the money you will receive another call advising you of your daughter's whereabouts. A letter will be sent also to insure the findings of your daughter.
    Not mirrored here.


    While twice the length of JB,, and nearly 3 times that length of L&L, BRN clear it shares no similarites with BRN but does LLRN.

  3. #3
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    Actually I don't look at the RN, now I try to think that someone else wrote it cause in all this I like to think JB died more than just wetting the bed.. But a random person walking off the street I will never see but JMO.. No stranger will make themselves at home while they was gone..In my own opionion the intruder theory was killed by the Ramsey's themselves.. And if this ever does turn out to be an intruder then I would like to slap the Ramsey's for messing with crime scene and leaving this to happen to someone else's child.. But all this is JMO..
    Knowledge of time is precious.Wisdom of truth is more precious than time..Opinions I write are mine..

  4. #4
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    I have never heard of that case, how fascinating -


    I see your point but in that case the child actually was kidnapped, yes? no body hidden in the wine cellar?

    I think that fact, not just the length of the ramsey RN, is what really gets us RDI going.
    Last edited by 2goldfish; 05-24-2009 at 07:36 AM. Reason: cant spell and peel an apple for a baby at the same time

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2goldfish View Post
    I have never heard of that case, how fascinating -


    I see your point but in that case the child actually was kidnapped, yes? no body hidden in the wine cellar?

    I think that fact, not just the length of the ramsey RN, is what really gets us RDI going.
    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jane_Mackle[/ame]

    Barbara Jane Mackle (born 1948) is an American heiress who was the victim of a notorious crime. Her book about the ordeal was the basis of two television movies.The crime

    On December 17, 1968, Mackle – then a 20-year-old Emory University student – was staying at the Rodeway Inn in Decatur, Georgia with her mother. Mackle was sick with the Hong Kong flu, which had severely struck the student body of Emory; her mother had driven to the Atlanta area to take care of her daughter and then drive her daughter back to the family home in Coral Gables, Florida for the Christmas break. A stranger, Gary Steven Krist, knocked on the door, claimed to be with the police, and told Mackle that Stewart Hunt Woodward had been in a traffic accident. [Woodward is usually described as Mackle's boyfriend or fiancé but in Mackle's written account she calls him 'a good friend'.] Once inside, Krist and his accomplice, Ruth Eisemann-Schier (who was disguised as a man), chloroformed, bound and gagged Mackle’s mother, then forced Barbara Jane Mackle at gunpoint into the back of their waiting car, informing her that she was being kidnapped. They drove her to a remote pine forest off of South Berkeley Lake Road in Gwinnett County near Duluth and buried Mackle in a fiberglass-reinforced box. The box was outfitted with an air pump, a battery-powered lamp, water laced with sedatives, and food. Two plastic pipes provided Mackle with outside air.

    Krist and Eisemann-Schier demanded, and received, a $500,000 ransom from Mackle’s father, Robert Mackle, a wealthy Florida land developer. The first attempt at a ransom drop was disrupted when two policemen drove by. The kidnappers fled on foot and the FBI found their car, abandoned. Inside the car, the authorities found, not only documents giving Krist's and Eisemann-Schier's names and former addresses, they also found a photograph of Barbara Jane Mackle in the box holding a sign that read "Kidnapped." The second ransom drop was successful. On December 20, Krist called and gave an FBI switchboard operator vague directions to Mackle’s burial place. The FBI set up their base in Lawrenceville, Gwinnett’s county seat, and more than 100 agents spread out through the area in an attempt to find her, digging the ground with their hands and anything they could find to use. Mackle was rescued alive and unharmed, though she was dehydrated. She had spent more than three days underground.

    [edit] The punishment

    Krist was soon arrested off the coast of Florida in a speedboat bought with part of the ransom money. Eisemann-Schier was arrested 79 days later. (She has the distinction of being the first woman on the FBI's ten most wanted list.) She was convicted and sentenced to seven years in prison, paroled after serving four years and deported to her native Honduras. She currently lives in Honduras, where she is married to Salvatore Randazzo and has four children. Krist was convicted and sentenced to life in prison in 1969, but was released on parole after 10 years. Krist received a pardon to allow him to attend medical school. He practiced medicine in Indiana before his license was revoked in 2003 as a result of lying about disciplinary action received during his residency.

    In March 2006 Krist was arrested (along with his stepson) on a sailboat off the coast of Alabama with over 38 pounds of cocaine, reportedly worth about $1 million, in his possession. After his arrest, Barrow County, Georgia police found an underground drug lab for processing cocaine buried beneath a shed on his property. (Barrow is adjacent to the county where Krist buried Mackle.) On May 16, 2006 he pleaded guilty to drug smuggling and, on January 19, 2007 he was sentenced to more than five years in prison.

    [edit] The books and movies

    Mackle wrote a book (with Miami Herald reporter Gene Miller) about her experience: 83 Hours ‘Til Dawn, published in 1971. ABC aired the story in 1972 as part of its ABC Movie of the Week showcase under the title The Longest Night. However due to litigation surrounding the rights to the story, the movie was never aired again, even though the court decision was later overturned. The book was made into a second television movie, 83 Hours 'Til Dawn in 1990. Krist also wrote a book, Life: The Man Who Kidnapped Barbara Jane Mackle, published in 1972 (ISBN 0-7004-0100-8).

    [edit] Mackle's current life

    Mackle went on to marry Woodward and have two children. At last report she was living in Florida. She declines all requests for interviews.

    [edit] Television movies

    * The Longest Night (1972) [1]
    * 83 Hours 'Til Dawn (1990)[2]
    * The Girl in the Box Time Magazine, December 27, 1968
    * Making an Impact Time Magazine, January 3, 1969
    * Gary Krist: The Einstein of Crime By David Krajicek from Court TV Crime Library
    * Doctor’s License Revoked WISH-TV, August 29, 2003 (includes a picture of Krist) retrieved September 12, 2006

  6. #6
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    I hadn't ever heard of that case, Voynich. It's really interesting and the note is fascinating. Must say that I'm surprised that the FBI, LE et al all ignored this note when saying that the RRN was the longest ever and it does give you pause to read about a case like this. However, there was a bona fide kidnapping in the Mackle case and the crims appear to have gone to some lengths to ensure that the victim was kept safe and sound. Equally, I'd be surprised if the paper came from the victim's house or if there was a practice note in the Mackle case. The amount of the ransom demand was also a bit more realistic in the Mackle case.

    Similarly, once you've written a ransom note and demanded payment, even if you accidentally kill the child, you are going to take the body: it's valuable collateral as long as everyone thinks the child is still alive and there's a chance of getting her back safely.
    Last edited by Sophie; 05-24-2009 at 09:55 AM. Reason: Seplling nto vrey godo tayod

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2goldfish View Post
    I have never heard of that case, how fascinating -


    I see your point but in that case the child actually was kidnapped, yes? no body hidden in the wine cellar?

    I think that fact, not just the length of the ramsey RN, is what really gets us RDI going.
    Exactly! And the fact that there has has been just ONE other note in history that is longer than JB's RN note...means absolutely nothing. Now...if the cases had been similar...as in, if the longest RN in history was written, and the body left BEHIND in the home, just like the JB case...THEN I could see where we may would have a reason to compare the two RNs.

    I had already heard about this case, because another poster had PM'd me about it, along with the RN.
    "This time we get it right."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    I hadn't ever heard of that case, Voynich. It's really interesting and the note is fascinating. Must say that I'm surprised that the FBI, LE et al all ignored this note when saying that the RRN was the longest ever and it does give you pause to read about a case like this. However, there was a bona fide kidnapping in the Mackle case and the crims appear to have gone to some lengths to ensure that the victim was kept safe and sound. Equally, I'd be surprised if the paper came from the victim's house or if there was a practice note in the Mackle case. The amount of the ransom demand was also a bit more realistic in the Mackle case.

    Similarly, once you've written a ransom note and demanded payment, even if you accidentally kill the child, you are going to take the body: it's valuable collateral as long as everyone thinks the child is still alive and there's a chance of getting her back safely.
    EXACTLY! I have been saying this all along. If JB's had of been a true kidnapping, then the kidnappers would have taken her body with them ANYWAY...even if she had of been accidently killed. They would have gotten the money...and then said to John..."Oops...sorry...she is dead. Thanks for the money". A true kidnapper is NOT going to say..."Hmmmm, I left that three page RN on the stairs, but...I accidently killed her!! NOW WHAT?? I could just take the body with me, get the money and THEN tell John that she is dead. No wait...I know...I will just leave the three page RN on the stairs where I left it...and I will also leave the body behind in the home. Yep, that sounds like a real real good idea".
    "This time we get it right."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    EXACTLY! I have been saying this all along. If JB's had of been a true kidnapping, then the kidnappers would have taken her body with them ANYWAY...even if she had of been accidently killed. They would have gotten the money...and then said to John..."Oops...sorry...she is dead. Thanks for the money". A true kidnapper is NOT going to say..."Hmmmm, I left that three page RN on the stairs, but...I accidently killed her!! NOW WHAT?? I could just take the body with me, get the money and THEN tell John that she is dead. No wait...I know...I will just leave the three page RN on the stairs where I left it...and I will also leave the body behind in the home. Yep, that sounds like a real real good idea".
    It cuts the other way -- if Rs wanted to stage a kidnapping, and they had time and opportunity to hide some items like tape and paintbrush, etc., they had time to hide JB's body. Like Scott Peterson allegedly did w/Lacy.

    If you want to claim they did not carry the body out for fear of being caught, that could apply to an IDI as well.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    Exactly! And the fact that there has has been just ONE other note in history that is longer than JB's RN note...means absolutely nothing. Now...if the cases had been similar...as in, if the longest RN in history was written, and the body left BEHIND in the home, just like the JB case...THEN I could see where we may would have a reason to compare the two RNs.

    I had already heard about this case, because another poster had PM'd me about it, along with the RN.
    Some RDI myths rests on the claim that JB being the longest note in history is evidence PR wrote it as a "journalism" major.

    One reason I compared the Rn's is to establish a "check" on the meaningfulness of the obvious similarities between LLRN and RRN.

    It provides evidence in support of the hypothesis that RRN author knew LLRN, but did not know of BRN, in that writing a long RN does not necessarily result in such coincidental similarities.

    I got a PM as well, otherwise I would have written of this awhile back.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    I hadn't ever heard of that case, Voynich. It's really interesting and the note is fascinating. Must say that I'm surprised that the FBI, LE et al all ignored this note when saying that the RRN was the longest ever and it does give you pause to read about a case like this. .
    Exactly my point, I got a pm pointing to this case btw. I've heard the shall we say

    RDIST

    claim JBRN is the longest in history. It also shows that in writing a long RN, it can be quite different from other long RN's, strengthening the case that RRN knew of LLRN but did not know of BRN.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    Exactly my point, I got a pm pointing to this case btw. I've heard the shall we say

    RDIST

    claim JBRN is the longest in history. It also shows that in writing a long RN, it can be quite different from other long RN's, strengthening the case that RRN knew of LLRN but did not know of BRN.
    RDIST= any new IDI supporting information or evidence will be taken out of context, distorted, abused, and finally discarded, in a matter of minutes.

    VERY interesting ransom note, and because of this note I'll respectfully disagree with the claim that the RN author knew of either LLRN or BRN.





    When you consider the similarities between all three ransom notes, and the similarities between the crimes:
    • how the money is packaged and handled
    • how contact will be made
    • how will police involvement be handled
    • how the victim will be subdued
    These are all obviously basic, fundamental 'real' kidnapper concerns. These are fully and clearly expressed in both word and deed in all three crimes. IOW all three criminals shared the same concerns and behaviors, according to the evidence.

    Oddly, the most articulate, elaborate, clever-sounding RN's are the only crimes solved so far. IF IDI, then JBR's is perhaps the most sophisticated crime, since they operated in the house and neighborhood at night.




    The force is strong in you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    It cuts the other way -- if Rs wanted to stage a kidnapping, and they had time and opportunity to hide some items like tape and paintbrush, etc., they had time to hide JB's body. Like Scott Peterson allegedly did w/Lacy.

    If you want to claim they did not carry the body out for fear of being caught, that could apply to an IDI as well.

    getting off topic here I know but IMO they did not take her outside because unlike Casey Anthony and some others I could mention, they were not willing to throw their daughter out like trash - I think it was a rage attack ..no intent to murder her - I still dont get the paintbrush shards in the vagina though - I dont think PR knew anything about that - think that was up to JR and his size 12 bloomie's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    It cuts the other way -- if Rs wanted to stage a kidnapping, and they had time and opportunity to hide some items like tape and paintbrush, etc., they had time to hide JB's body. Like Scott Peterson allegedly did w/Lacy.

    If you want to claim they did not carry the body out for fear of being caught, that could apply to an IDI as well.
    In fairness, getting rid of tape and cord (assuming they weren't already used remnants attached to dolls, paintings, parcels or whatever), is a tad easier than getting rid of a child in rigor mortis. You could hide the former about your person and get rid on one of your trips out of the house next day or when your sister/in-law raided the crime scene. Getting rid of the body would require leaving the house in the middle of the night, when there's a layer of snow.

    This doesn't really work for an intruder scenario because a) the intruder had to get in and out of someone else's house in the dead of night without being noticed so getting a 45 pound child out was probably secondary and b) having so thoroughly researched the Ramseys, you'd have thought they'd have a plan for getting the child out of the house.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    It cuts the other way -- if Rs wanted to stage a kidnapping, and they had time and opportunity to hide some items like tape and paintbrush, etc., they had time to hide JB's body. Like Scott Peterson allegedly did w/Lacy.

    If you want to claim they did not carry the body out for fear of being caught, that could apply to an IDI as well.
    But it was a "KIDNAPPING" gone bad, in the first place...if it truly was IDI. So, what's the difference....actually carrying out the dead body of a kidnap victim, would be more quieter, and less noticable...than trying to carry out a kicking, screaming 6 year old. So, then what you say..(bolded in red)..doesn't hold water.
    "This time we get it right."

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