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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zobsessed View Post
    First, let me firmly state up front that I am a novice on Z. I know what I know, but that's all I know. I got into this case after the Cold Case Files episode aired some years ago and after Fincher's film (which I consider to be a masterpiece) came out, I was hooked. I then read Graysmith's book which I subsequently have found to be not very well respected amongst the Z sleuths. I actually like that book quite a bit and gleaned many of my opinions about this case from it.

    On the topic of that book, I do not believe ALA was Z, nor do I believe he was invovled in any way. I do think he liked the attention he got from this case though and he enjoyed screwing with the police. A better candidate from Graysmith's book is "Andrew Walker". Although, as I understand it, he had a thick northeastern accent which Nancy Slove (and others) could attest to Z not having.

    The most frustrating thing about this case is that everyone (web admin, filmmaker, writer, et al) has a suspect. This tends to cause splintered opinions and ideas. The kind of thing that has consistently kept this case from being solved. There were a number of great detectives on this case, Toschi, Armstrong, Narlow.. and they all had their notable suspects.

    Arthur Leigh Allen - DNA didn't match, finger print doesn't match, handwriting doesn't match, case closed on ALA.

    Rick Marshall - SFPD officially ruled him out as a suspect, prior to his death, last fall. This according to Tom Voigt. Case closed on him, too.

    Okay, with those two out of the way that leaves about 4,498 more.

    Having fast forwarded to this point in the discussion, ruling out those two. I would like to hear your opinion morf13. I'm always very interested in hearing theories and opinions. I do have some questions for you, if you don't mind humoring me...

    1) What do you think of Gareth Penn as a suspect?
    2) How about: Lawrence Kane, Mr. X (who's name I recently found!), Robert Hansen, David Carpenter?
    3) Do you there was more than one person involved in the killings?
    4) Do you think Z killed Cheri Jo Bates?
    5) Do you think Z actually killed 37 (or more than the 5 confirmed)?

    I'll start with those questions... I have others. I have just recently read Michael D. Kelleher's book "This is the Zodiac Speaking" and I consider it to be a headier read than YB. I also tend to agree with many of the opinions in the book, not all, but many. There's also a great supplementary video to the 2-disc Director's Cut of Fincher's film on the Zodiac Movie website. I recently discovered that as well. The Behavioral Profiling snippet with Sharon Hagan has really helped me form my opinions (along with Kelleher's book).

    Look forward to hearing from you.
    To Zobsessed,my new,fellow Zodiac Obsessed friend, I share some of the same thoughts as you.I am no expert on the case,and believe that there is still alot to learn,so i enjoy when i am able to talk with some of the great researchers and investigators regarding the case.I have read about the case for a long time,watched the documentaries,and loved the movie Zodiac,and dont understand why it wasnt honored with any Oscar nominations. The movie IS basically based on Robert Greysmith's book. There is quite a backlash against Greysmith from the Zodiac sleuth community. Some things were changed,added,etc by the author(according to these people that dont support him) I dont know if he flat out lied,or as an inexperienced investigative writer,made errors,didnt fully checkout witness reports,etc. I think he got caught up in the thought that ALA was Zodiac,and when you lose your objectivity as a writer,you taint your own writing from thereon out. I would strongly recommend that anyone that wants to find the true facts on this case visit Michael Butterfield's site, www.zodiackillerfacts.com Michael is well known in the Zodiac community,and has participated in many documentaries on the case.He has a bunch of videos on youtube that are invaluable and show the discrepancies on the books by Greysmith.(just go to youtube and search the name MICHAEL BUTTERFIELD and you will find his great videos)

    Anyone who thinks ALA was Zodiac is entitled to their own opinion,but, there is NO EVIDENCE that supports this.

    Regarding Cheri Jo Bates,i started a thread about her here:
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84644"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84644[/ame]
    You will see that i posted about a girl in a red dress was found dead(the writer of the desktop poem found in the RCC storage,mentioned a girl in a RED dress) I think its interesting and possible that Zodiac killed her,and the letters written were certainly similar,BUT,there is no direct evidence of Zodiac killing her,and he only took credit for it AFTER the news broke that Bates was a possile Z victim.

    Gareth Penn-I will start by saying that i do not want to insinuate that Penn was Zodiac,nor do i want to soil his reputation,but here are some "coincidences" i discovered about Penn(sorry for the great length of this post):
    Penn was a fan of writing to editors(like Zodiac)and getting his point across. In 1994,Penn wrote to Time magazine about a new production of "The Mikado" in which the reviewer mistakenly attributed the lyrics to Sullivan and the music to Gilbert.

    He wrote "Let's see, now. Sullivan wrote the words, and Gilbert wrote the music. Holmes is the doctor, and Watson the detective. Harpo had the cigar, and Groucho tooted the auto horn. Thanks for setting the record straight.
    Gareth Penn San Rafael, California
    "
    As you probably know,Zodiac was a big fan of the Mikado and Gilbert & Sullivan and even used their work in his letters.
    Penn also wrote a series of letters to a magazine/writers club, called "The Ecphorizer" One of the letters was called


    "Gone With The 25 Potroast"



    Here's an excerpt-“One day last winter, I was in a quiet neighborhood of Vallejo near Interstate 80. About 500 feet west of the freeway there was a little park, about a half”
    (This ties Penn to Vallejo where some of the attacks happened)

    Another letter was called
    "Where Were You?"
    Here's an excerpt- "Frank Jr. was FIDDLING with a battery-powered radio to find out what was going on.”

    ZODIAC said in a letter “the longer they FIDDLE and fart around the more slaves I will collect for my afterlife"



    Another letter was called

    "Creative Reading"
    Heres an excerpt-"One of the oldest means of creating a trademark is to encode a message in it by writing it backwards. Those over 35 may remember Serutan, the natural laxative for those over 35. As you can readily see, the trademark is "Nature's" spelled backwards. Just so you don't think this is over-interpretation on my part, let me point out that the Serutan commercials used to bring out that fact a dozen times every day over the nation's airwaves.”


    This shows that Penn definately had knowledge of Codes/ciphers



    Another paper was called
    "Thirty-Eight"
    Here are some excerpts-“His passenger was fumbling inside his jacket as if for his wallet.”
    “The SFPD officers left the spot with tires screeching”
    “In response to this letter, the SFPD held a press conference in which the Zodiac's story about the encounter with the two police officers was stoutly denied. To this day, the SFPD has never admitted that the Zodiac was telling the truth. They were lying.”


    “Late in June, 1970, the Zodiac sent the Chronicle a letter in which, among other things, he claimed to have "shot a man sitting in a parked car with a 38." The police gave out that they had searched the records of every law-enforcement agency west of the Rockies without turning up a shooting victim who fit the description. The Zodiac's claim was dismissed as an idle boast. They were lying again. There was a recent shooting victim who had been shot with a .38 in a parked car, and his car had been parked in San Francisco at the time: Paul Stine. SFPD ballistics experts had typed the murder weapon as a .38-caliber revolver, but it was identified for public consumption as a 9mm automatic in order to fabricate one of those shared secrets that the police reason will enable them to separate the real criminal from compulsive confessors.”
    “For similar reasons, the authorities hushed up the facts about the trip book even though the Zodiac's version, Maple and Washington, had been published in the Chronicle for all to see


    Here's my take on the above excerpts, "His passenger was fumbling inside his jacket as if for his wallet.” (talking about the Paul Stine murder) How does Penn know this? Either he is just writing creatively,or he was there.

    " They were lying" / "They were lying again"
    Sounds like Penn taking the police lying a little too seriously,awfully defensive,huh?

    "for all to see" The writer of the Cheri Jo Bates "confession" letter from 11/29/66 said "THIS LETTER SHOULD BE PUBLISHED FOR ALL TO READ IT"

    Of course these letters/writings are circumstancial. But so is the following: (some is borrowed from another site)

    Police profilers considered the Zodiac killer an "extremely shrewd, methodical planner" who would have had knowledge of cryptography, guns, map reading, meteorology, astronomy, drafting, and a probable military background. [32]

    Self described as the son of an Army cryptographer and former employee of the California Attorney General’s office, Penn has written that he had a "checkered career" as a “medievalist, artillery surveyor, free lance writer, economic researcher, reference librarian, and receptionist in a robot factory.” [33]

    In Times 17 Penn writes that he received artillery training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma during the mid-1960's. A U.S. Army artillery surveyor performs astronomical observations; measures azimuths, grid coordinates, and angles on maps; and operates/maintains vehicles, radios, weapons, and other survey equipment in support of artillery operations. [34]


    Amateur investigators have noted that in Times 17, Penn audaciouly lays out a scenario whereby, as duty person in charge of daily roll call, he could have falsified an entry and left Fort Sill in October, 1966, taken a military hop to March AFB, and killed Cheri Jo Bates in nearby Riverside. [35] [36]

    Based on his dates of service, Penn would have served during the Vietnam War.[37]
    Writing style
    A prolific letter-to-the-editor writer, Zodiac used British phrasing that incorporated numerous references to theatrical, literary, or linguistic works.

    Recurring Zodiac themes included Gilbert and Sullivan’s Mikado; Old Norse limericks and poetry; epigrams, acrostics, and cryptograms; and high-handed word play intended to baffle and belittle the authorities.

    Gareth Penn’s proclivity toward astute, officious, and often biting letters to the editors of the world’s top intellectual periodicals -- such as Scientific American, Nature, The Economist, and at least 15 letters over the years to National Public Radio -- has tantalized amateur sleuths as another similarity between Penn and Zodiac

    In an Ecphorizer article entitled Lima Riki, Penn notes that "in a previous incarnation," he used to write limericks "in Old Norse." A Zodiac letter mentions Old Norse writing, an issue Penn subsequently addressed

    Another big COINCIDENCE i found was that Penn retired from the Marine fishery Svcs Library. I found a biologist named DR ROBERT EMMETT who also worked for the Marine fisheries svc,although i dont know if they knew each other,or worked together. Do you remember the name ROBERT EMMETT? Some people think that the name "Robert Emmett the hippie",was the solution at the bottom of the 1st Zodiac cipher,but many assume that the name ROBERT EMMETT was the name of a schoolmate of Arthur Leigh Allen,RobertEmmett Rodifer.Maybe,Maybe not?

    One last coincidence- Found this newspaper report(same one i mentioned in the thread about Cheri Jo Bates)
    Headline from 12/19/66 Modesto Bee
    "Woman's Body Is Found On Cliff
    TIBURON (UPI)—The badly decomposed body of a woman
    was found Sunday on a cliff by a young hunter. Authorities said
    the body had lain in the underbrush for several months about 20
    feet below Paradise Drive. An autopsy will be conducted to determine
    cause of death. She was wearing a red dress.They found no Identification on the
    body. Deputies said they have no report of a missing woman
    matching the description of the body."


    This body was discovered VERY CLOSE,within 1-2 miles i believe,of where Penn worked as a librarian(although i cant say the body was found while he was working there)

    Penn's background,knowledge,reputation,etc makes him a "person of interest" to me,although once again i am not saying he is Zodiac or trying to ruin his name.As far as the site that has a huge report on Penn being Zodiac,and touches on all kinds of geometry,radions.etc,i got lost after reading it for 5 minutes(geometry & math are my worst subjects)

    As far as some of the people Lawrence kane,Mr.X(took me a long time to find his identity)Robert Hansen,Robert Hunter,and all the other suspects.Some things seem to fit and some things dont.But i do respect the researchers and investigators opinions about these people. There were a LOT of murders going on,of all types in Calif. in the 60's,so even if some of these people are NOT zodiac,it doesnt mean they were not responsible for other attacks. That's what makes it hard to know how many people were really killed by Zodiac.

    RE: Tom Voight and his site- Kudos to a great site filled with lots of info,and great members there.His Zodiac research is awesome,BUT,his people skills are terrible(just my opinion,and one shared by countless others banned from his site for not agreeing with his every word as if he's GOD) If you have a difference of opinion with him,or have other ideas,you will see your posts edited,and your membership cancelled.One of the big mistakes i made was to criticise his big suspect GYKE(i and a few others mentioned something to him that seemed to make GYKE not plausible as Zodiac)(I do think it's neat how the word GYKE appears clear as day in the original cipher).I wont show you the nasty emails he sent me.It's funny, i think i get along with just about anybody,and respect people's opinions,even if i dont happen to share them,but...whatever


    Anyway,I am really happy to be here with like minded people and hope to learn alot,and hear some opinions and ideas.

    Last edited by morf13; 06-01-2009 at 12:49 AM.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles_draken View Post
    It seems to me that many of those obsessed with the Zodiac case don't really want it to be solved. They crucify anyone who seems to come forward with a suspect, or perhaps it is just that every expert has their own favorite suspect.

    Almost everything I read from Zodiac community discounts Robert Graysmiths theory about ALA, even though he seems to have a lot of circumstantial evidence.

    Most people don't believe Perez.

    Most think Dennis Kauffman is after money and has no evidence.

    At least the authorities seem to put enough stock in the theories to check them out.

    I think the Zodiac case is just a web of dead ends and false hopes. Everyones favorite suspect has that one compelling thing that seems to keep them from being the guy. Somewhere out there is a perfect fit, the real Zodiac killer, but it may be someone nobody suspected.

    I don't go for the "team" theory, ever try to get a group of people to keep a secret??

    Tom Voight does have an interesting site, but I lost respect for him when he was offering BTK some pictures of people he'd killed. I'm sure it was a hoax, but it wasn't in very good taste.

    And regarding Voights favorite Gradowski or however it's spelled, much of this is based on the dispatcher remembering his voice after nearly four decades?? Seems like a stretch.

    I hope it's solved. I think every suspect needs to be looked at. Instead of the quick discount of all these people coming forward with wild claims, prove with facts that it wasn't them. It appears that in the Zodiac community suspects are considered fraudulent until proven guilty.

    Gotta agree,i think alot of Zodiac obsessed people will be really bored if the identity of Zodiac is revealed(myself included) But he is a criminal and if he's not dead,deserves to be punished to give the families of his victims closure.

    There are so many differing thoughts,opinions,points of view,etc,on the Zodiac case,and that's why people sometimes argue or do not take other people seriously.I think EVERYBODY's thoughts and ideas are important tools,and i love hearing what everyone has to say on the subject. The more people work together and share info,the more likely it is that the case will get solved! Afterall,it's been 40 years,ad no arrests,so maybe we should all start from scratch and look at new and fresh ideas and suspects,afterall, we dont have all the answers,and there have been no arrests,so perhaps Zodiac was someone who's name was never even mentioned.
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  3. #18
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    Hi, just dropped in, and gotta question maybe someone can answer. I googled for images of RJ Gaikowski, and found a picture of him on a book. I clicked on the book image which led me to a page that flashes 2 facial sketches of the Zodiac. Have any idea when the two suspect sketches were done?

    The reason I'm asking is if Gaikowski would be the right age for those two images of a suspect who looks to be 45-50 yrs. old or would Gaikowski have been a little bit too young?

    Thanks!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by justthinkin View Post
    Hi, just dropped in, and gotta question maybe someone can answer. I googled for images of RJ Gaikowski, and found a picture of him on a book. I clicked on the book image which led me to a page that flashes 2 facial sketches of the Zodiac. Have any idea when the two suspect sketches were done?

    The reason I'm asking is if Gaikowski would be the right age for those two images of a suspect who looks to be 45-50 yrs. old or would Gaikowski have been a little bit too young?

    Thanks!
    Born 3/14/36 so he would have been aprox. 33 at the time of the murders.I personally dont think Gyke was Zodiac. The sketches are based on sightings by kids that saw the Stine murder happen,and by the police who gave their account of the man they saw walking.They said that the person in the sketch appeared between 35 & 45 years old if i remember correctly
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  5. #20
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    Just updated the possible Zodiac victim,Cheri Jo Bates thread here:
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3817885#post3817885"]Cheri Jo Bates...Zodiac Victim or not? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by morf13 View Post
    Gotta agree,i think alot of Zodiac obsessed people will be really bored if the identity of Zodiac is revealed(myself included) But he is a criminal and if he's not dead,deserves to be punished to give the families of his victims closure.
    Like most Z-nuts, I have a POI. But if my POI is actually Zodiac, his identity will be far from boring. As a matter of fact, it would be Watergate levels of shaking the foundation of government in the US.

    How would people react if Zodiac had been a Nixon White House operative and had been involved in running guns to the Contras and smuggling cocaine back to the States during the Carter and Reagan eras? My POI did both (provable) and also has been convicted for a murder that was suspected to have been a possible Zodiac killing at one time. He probably was the perp in several of the Santa Rosa Hitch-hiker murders and is a good suspect in the disapperance of Donna Lass. Throw into the mix that he was also arrested for a machine gun murder in 1975 that was linked at the time to the Symbionese Liberation Army. All I am missing is linking him to the Zodiac crimes themselves, though he certainly was in the right places at the right times to have committed the murders.

    His name is Philip Arthur Thompson. I have posted a lot about him at Zodiackiller.com but I believe that you must be a member there to see the site. If you do your own research into this guy, be careful about info gleaned from the site newsmakingnews.com - the two woman who write there have questionable motives and much of what they post is misinformation or disinformation.
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  7. #22
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    Interesting guy is Thompson! I have read on him some as well. Do you have any known handwriting/printing samples of him?

    I do like how every can research,and come up with their own persons of interest. I had one too,but i hit a roadblock with the background digging on him,and I am at a standstill. One person who I have previously mentioned,has a LOT of circumstancial evidence that seems to not neccessarily link him to the Z crimes directly,but makes it plausible that it COULD be him. The more reading i do,the more interesting facts i find,and he fits the profile of what many people think would be a good Zodiac suspect.The photos i have seen do not neccessarily match Z,and i would need to find some pics of him in and around 1969.I cant say that this guy was close to 6FT or 220 lbs.
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  8. #23
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    Of all the suspects connected to this case my vote goes for Richard Gaikowski .
    I think the circumstantial evidence concerning him is every bit as compelling as Arthur Leigh Allen....more so in many cases.
    In addition Nancy Slover the Valejo dispatcher flat out said his voice was the one she talked to on the phone the night of July 4th ,1969.
    And she's listened to voice recordings of every suspect out there.
    Michael Maguae who was wounded in that attack, 20 some years later did pick ALA out of a line up of photos however he is somewhat of a burnout case.
    He did also said recently that Darlene reffered to her attacker as 'Richard' this was way before Giakowski was a well known suspect,so take your pick there.
    The switchboard for the underground magazine Gaikowski was editor for was also located virtually next door to murdered Cab Driver Paul Stine's apartment.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by morf13 View Post
    ~~ snip

    [...] a person that believes that Zodiac was not a single man,but rather a team,pointed out that as a Zodiac team,they could have committed both murders,in 2 different areas. I am not personally into the idea that there was a Zodiac "team",but anything is possible i guess,and it actually could explain the differences of appearance in the zodiac sketches.

    snip ~~

    Interesting. For an analysis that also posits multiple, or a team of, perps for a crime series, see Maury Terry's "The Ultimate Evil," about the Son of Sam murders and other crimes possibly related.

  10. #25
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    Gaikowski is an interesting POI. The one thing that bothers me is that after all of the scrutiny that he has received, the worst offense that he has been shown to have been involved in was the sending of a prank letter claiming that the governor of his state had died. He seems to have been a respected member of the SF alternative art community. Only one acquaintance (the mysterious "Purple Goldcatcher") seems to believe that Richard was Zodiac.

    According to zodiackiller.com, Gyke's DNA is currently being tested against the Zodiac letters. Jack Tarrence is also being tested, but it has been many months since that test was initiated and it is suspected that a negative match has already been told to Kaufman but he has not announced the results in an effort to keep his fifteen minutes of fame going. Hopefully, someone's DNA will match and settle this thing once and for all.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie View Post
    Gaikowski is an interesting POI. The one thing that bothers me is that after all of the scrutiny that he has received, the worst offense that he has been shown to have been involved in was the sending of a prank letter claiming that the governor of his state had died. He seems to have been a respected member of the SF alternative art community. Only one acquaintance (the mysterious "Purple Goldcatcher") seems to believe that Richard was Zodiac.

    According to zodiackiller.com, Gyke's DNA is currently being tested against the Zodiac letters. Jack Tarrence is also being tested, but it has been many months since that test was initiated and it is suspected that a negative match has already been told to Kaufman but he has not announced the results in an effort to keep his fifteen minutes of fame going. Hopefully, someone's DNA will match and settle this thing once and for all.

    GYKE strikes me as a Hippie,counter culture type,into art,etc. Just cant see him being Zodiac,and ill bet the ranch that his DNA will not be a match.Then he can go in the drawer with ALA,and Mr.X,and everyone else that doesnt have definitive evidence linking them as Zodiac. That's the problem with this case. There are a ton of suspects,and "persons of interest",and they all seem to have some promise,but all lack solid conclusive evidence.


    I don't know what type of person Zodiac was,but i tend to agree with most that he was pretty smart,had some interest or background in military,or was a wannabe. If the suspect description from the Stine murder is correct,then he would fit the Military conservative style vs . the GYKE hippie type.

    I also am of the opinion that Zodiac stopped writing,or killing altogether after Stine's murder,because he realized how close he was to getting caught. There was a skectch,and witnesses,possibly even the police themselves saw him. They had possible finger prints from the Stine scene.Sure Zodiac said it was some rubber cement or whatever on the tips of his fingers,but why wouldnt he say that? Think about it.You realized that you made a big mistake and now they have your prints,he probably told them that his prints were fake to try to get them to discount the print they found. The kids that saw him said he was wiping down the cab.Why would he need to do that,if he wore gloves,or had fake fingertips on? I really believe that was a mistake on his part,and he got scared. So what i want to know is,did the SF police ever enter the print off the cab into a database anywhere? If Zodiac ever applied for certain ID's,licenses,gun permits,military,or was arrested,his prints may have been taken,and could be on file some place.
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  12. #27
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    Here's an interesting theory,that someone else on another board brought up.Since Zodiac had military issue type boots,and possibly had a military style haircut,and military type glasses,and was thought to have some sort of military background,perhaps in code training,and was perhaps seen near the Presidio military base after the Stine murder,theres a strong possibility that he could have been military.In addition,at the Cheri Jo Bates crime scene,a mens watch was found,and it was found that this type of watch was sold at military Px's(although the Bates murder isnt a confirmed Zodiac attack)

    Going on this possible military connection,and the fact that Zodiac seemed to be especially comfortable in the area of Vallejo,how about the possibility that Zodiac worked at,was stationed at,or trained at the California Maritime Academy at Vallejo?
    "Located in Vallejo, California, The California Maritime Academy (Cal Maritime) is a unique and specialized campus of The California State University that offers students bachelor’s degrees in international business and logistics, facilities engineering technology, global studies and maritime affairs, marine engineering technology, marine transportation, and mechanical engineering. Cal Maritime is one of only seven degree-granting maritime academies in the United States — and the only one on the West Coast." The drive from this academy to the Vallejo murder scenes would have been very short.

    And some of the men coming thru there may have trained on boats made by a company called "Zodiac". The company called "ZODIAC" states, "Zodiac is the global leader for military and professional RIBs and inflatables"

    Keeping up with the military angle here,a man named Robert Tarbox(a former attorney)announced that a man had come to him to seek legal advice,and claimed that he was the ZODIAC. Mr. Tarbox goes on to say that the man claiming to be Zodiac,produced as identification a MMD (Merchant Marine Document). ...so that's another piece that could put Zodiac in the miltary.Of course i dont know how true this is,and i have even heard that Mr. Tarbox was disbarred.But anyway here is a link to his story:
    http://zodiackillertruth.com/tarbox.htm

    In addition, I also found a ship with ties to the San fran area.Guess what the name of the ship is..yep,it's called "ZODIAC". Heres a little history on the ship
    "Originally designed by William Hand Jr. as an ocean racing yacht, the Schooner Zodiac was built with painstaking care in 1924 in East Boothbay, Maine. Robert Wood Johnson and J. Seward Johnson of the Johnson & Johnson family were her first owners.
    In 1931 the Zodiac was purchased by the San Francisco Bar Pilot Association and renamed California, beginning her long service as a bar pilot schooner. Her new responsibility was transporting harbor pilots to ships through shallow and dangerous waters off San Francisco's Golden Gate.
    Retired in 1972, she was purchased by the Vessel Zodiac Corporation. Through the efforts of hundreds of dedicated volunteers, the vintage wooden schooner has been restored to her original beauty. In 1982, she earned a spot in the National Register of Historic places, and on her 60th birthday in 1984 was given back her maiden name."


    Some people have assumed the name ZODIAC was picked by the killer because of the watch,and the fact the watch had a crosshair logo.But the above refernces for the name ZODIAC,directly in the area of Vallejo & SanFran,certainly makes it possible that he chose the name based on the local connection,vs the watch.

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    Where it all fell apart for Zodiac?

    I am of the opinion that Zodiac stopped writing as frequently to police,and may have stopped killing altogether after the murder of Paul Stine,because he was scared,and he knew he made some mistakes.

    October 11,1969,Paul Stine is murdered. Zodiac is spotted by witnesses,and possibly even police.Sketches are made. In addition,there is a print found at the crime scene,but Zodiac doesnt know this yet.

    October 13,1969,Zodiac mails a letter boasting to police that he killed Stine,and includes a piece of his shirt as proof. He states that the cops could have caught them had they searched the park properly.He makes NO mention of a patrol car stopping him,and he still doesnt know that they have witnesses and a print.

    November 8,1969,Zodiac mails the DRIPPING PEN card.Makes no mention of the Stine killing,nor the witnesses that saw him,or the prints they have,nor the police stopping him.(By the way,this dripping pen card could be a big clue in itself.It was mailed postmarked San Fran. I dont know if police did this,but they should have contacted every Hallmark store,drug store,etc,any place that sold cards,and found out which ones within the San Fran-Vallejo areas carried this card. The card companies name and logo is right on the card. Then they could try to see if they could narrow down where it was sold,and if sucsessful,then interviewed clerks,and review any possible surveillance videos)

    Here's about the time that Zodiac gets nervous i believe,and gets scared.

    The very next day,November 9,1969,he mails the BUS BOMB letter. He says ,that he has grown angry at the police for spreading lies about him,so he would change the ways he collected souls,and not announce his murders. TRANSLATION: Ive been seeing in the news that you have clues about me and i almost got caught,now i am scared,so i am not going to be writing for a while. He goes on to say,that he looks like the description passed out only when he kills. TRANSLATION: You know what i look like now,but i want you to think that i dont really look like that.He further says,that the prints they found were simply airplane glue over his fingerprints and they dont have his real prints. TRANSLATION: You have my prints,but i want you to think that you dont.If Z used fake prints,or had gloves,why spend the extra few seconds wiping down the cab? He said he wiped it down to leave fake clues,and that the police didnt have any valuable info.I think he did that to make police think that the evidence they had was worthless and not worth pursuing.He also says finally that the police mad a goof,and stopped him that night after the murder.

    Another thing he says,which i think is a big clue or mistake by Zodiac,is that his "killing tools" (not sure if he means guns,disguises or what,but i assume its guns)were purchased thru mail order outfits before the BAN went into effect(that's why i believe he means guns). Heres a 1968 GUN BAN link: [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968[/ame]

    This is a slipup by Z. There are two possibilties here:

    A- He is tellling the truth.If he is telling the truth,and bought it thru the mail before a gun ban was in effect,police have a date to work with.Simply try to track down purchases thru mail order companies of the specific model guns used by Z prior to the ban.
    OR
    B-He is lying and he bought his guns locally but doesnt want the cops trying to track him via local gun dealers.

    So here you have 2 letters that were sent on back to back days.WHY? Why wouldnt he have just sent one letter.I think he sent the 1st letter,and that day,found out somehow the details of evidence police had against him,and got scared.That is what led him to write the second MISINFORMATION letter the next day trying to convince police that they had nothing.

    On December 20,1969(also the anniversary of the faraday/jensen murders),Z sends his next letter to Melvin Belli.This in my opinion,is after a paranoid month getting rid of evidence and waiting for the police to knock on his door. He wants to get a defense in place,as he awaits the police to knock on his door. He reaches out with a nice letter wishing Melvin a HAPPY CHRISTMASS to be pleasant,and even takes the time to write nicely with nice print for a change instead of the sloppy stuff he normally sends(maybe this is even his true handwriting for a change)

    Obviously,the police never knocked on his door(unless they did and we dont know it)but Zodiac felt the heat was off,and then wrote again feeling safe a few times in 1970.The next time he sends a confirmed Z letter is the 1974 Exorcist letter.So 4 years with no confirmed letter? What happened during this time. Was he in jail? If he was military,was he shipped out for a while to another base? Had the police finally knocked on his door,and questioned him,thus scaring him so bad that uldnt write for 4 years?
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  14. #29
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    Possible zodiac influence?

    Is this a possible Zodiac influence?
    Possible Zodiac influence?
    -1969 Prophetron Zoltan Fortune Teller- Take a look:

    http://marvin3m.com/arcade/zoltan.htm

    This is one of those old mechanical fortune teller machines that you used to see at fairs,carnivals,etc.As a matter of fact,if you ever watched the movie BIG starring Tom Hanks,it was similar to the type of machine that Hanks used that made him big.

    You put in your money,the machine comes to life and usually starts out with "this is Zoltan speaking" Sounds familiar huh? like "this is the Zodiac speaking" In addition,the 12 signs of the ZODIAC are laid out on the front of the machine. Between the name Zoltan sounding like Zodiac,and the similar greeting of "this is Zoltan speaking" vs. "this is the Zodiac speaking",it seems possible that this could be a Zodiac influence.


    Heres a video of it:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBUL6Z5RZZU&feature=related"]YouTube - Re: My Audition, YouTube + 312 other subjects... 8/14/07 2:4[/ame]
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  15. #30
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    ZODIAC Letter to the FBI...Take a look

    ZODIAC Letter to the FBI...Take a look,do you think this is authentic?
    The first letter is a verified letter from Zodiac. The second letter is a letter to the FBI that i found in their declassified files,along with a copy of the return envelope.The return address is blacked out,but the city it is post marked from is there,but hard to read.

    I personally believe that the lower case letter "d" is a spot on match in both letters.The way it leans to the right,and has a bit of a loop at the top. In addition,in the letter to the FBI,he crosses out a word that looks like the word PUTTING,and writes over top of it the word ESTABLISHING. Zodiac on more than one occasion crossed out a word,and wrote another word over top of it.I also went on to read the following from the FBI regarding this letter:
    "These are letters received in the Zodiac case.It has not been definately established that all of these letters were written by the Zodiac"
    Also if you look on the envelope that the letter was sent in to the FBI,the lower case letter "f" looks alot like Zodiac's as well. The envelope was addressed and mailed to the FBI office in Boston. And the return address as i said is blacked out but the postmark is visible,but hard to read.If anyone here is computer savy and could enlarge it and clean it up,it would be much appreciated.I wish i could determine who the letter is from.From the subject matter in the letter,it almost sounds like an investiagtor communicating with the FBI office, or a citizen trying to give the FBI some info,but there is no way to determine where/who sent it with the return address blacked out.I wish i could make out the postmark.Since it is 11 years after the last confirmed Zodiac attack,the postmark could be important if it is from another city or state,showing that perhaps Zodiac moved.

    I think i know why the letter may have been sent to the office in Boston,and that makes me think of one person that may have written it to the Boston FBI,but i will not comment on it here at this time.

    Please give your opinions on the samples when compared to each other. Do we have any hand writing experts here?
    Attached Images Attached Images
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