Was Defendant Deprived of Her Right to Counsel?

Was Defendant Denied Her Right to Counsel?

  • Yes, placing defendant before the television delayed personal notification by her attorney.

    Votes: 6 2.2%

  • No, as soon as her attorney arrived he was admitted to the common room.

    Votes: 114 41.3%

  • No, defendant went to the infirmary for medication. Surveillance is ever present in jail.

    Votes: 157 56.9%

  • Yes, defendant should have remained in her cell until her attorney arrived.

    Votes: 9 3.3%
  • Total voters
    276
  • Poll closed .

New Posts

Tuba

Tuba

New Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Messages
5,691
Reaction score
66
1. Yes, the strategem of putting defendant in front of the television news delayed the personal notification from her attorney.

2. As soon as her attorney arrived, he was admitted to the common room at the infirmary. There was no attempt to deprive her of counsel.

3. Defendant should not have been surveilled until her attorney was present.

4. Defendant went to the infirmary for medication; surveillance cameras are ever present in the jail. Nothing unexpected occurred.
 
IIRC, jail personnel noticed she may have already been notified as she was listening to her radio in her cell.

Legally, I think it's been agreed that KC has no special rights to privacy and can be surveilled or filmed at any time.

Since this was simply a news story about the discovery of what was suspected to be the remains of a child, and not actual confirmation of finding Caylee's body, I don't see why her attorney should have any special rights or access to her. If it had been confirmed, then perhaps it would have been a courtesy to allow him to see her before she found out from other sources, but I seriously doubt any rule or law was broken.

Her attorneys are also trying to invoke some sort of HIPAA-based privacy violation based on her subsequent request for medication, but it does not look like HIPAA rules may even apply and she was not denied medical attention when she requested.

Her attorneys can rail about her rights but it will be difficult to garner public sympathy for this defendant, her family and defense team who have exploited the media and LE for their own gain and profit when it suits them and cry foul when it doesn't turn out to their benefit.
 
Inmates do not have an absolute right to have their attorney present whenever they wish or demand. They have a right to have an attorney present when they are being actually questioned and no questions may be asked of them without the attorney present. THAT'S IT.

The arguement would have to be that observing the defendents reaction to a particular situation constitutes questioning. Which is going to be a stretch to make.

KC's legal team ddi alot of ranting about ethics, morality, and constitutional rights being violated, once again without citing any actual decisions, case law, etc. Not a strong way to start a legal arguement.
 
I voted no! I will tell you that I find the order of depositions odd that JB is taking. I mean shouldn't he be deposing TL and her friends that know ZG (like JL or JH) hmmmmm? I suppose it is because he knows there are no known persons. Again it is a fishing expedition.........He is trying to find something that LE screwed up on so that he can win his case. Who knows he may say that RK was dating ZG or something along that line.
 
waiting4change said:
I voted no! I will tell you that I find the order of depositions odd that JB is taking. I mean shouldn't he be deposing TL and her friends that know ZG (like JL or JH) hmmmmm? I suppose it is because he knows there are no known persons. Again it is a fishing expedition.........He is trying to find something that LE screwed up on so that he can win his case. Who knows he may say that RK was dating ZG or something along that line.
Click to expand...

Bold mine.

Sheesh - don't give JB any ideas!

JB saw Casey as soon as he arrived at the jail. End of story.
 
NocturnalLady said:
Bold mine.

Sheesh - don't give JB any ideas!

JB saw Casey as soon as he arrived at the jail. End of story.
Click to expand...
I agree. I know it's been mentioned that when he received the news he told LE he wanted to be the one to tell Casey...but I don't see why they're obligated to do any such thing.
 
She is in jail - was in a common area that is taped and recorded - and no secret
Once again prisoner is expecting special treatment -
Like everything from defense side so far - its much to do about nothing
The only rights that have been violated are Caylee's
 
The video happens to be a tape that runs all day long in the common area.
There is NO AUDIO so we didn't hear anything.

Upon Baez arriving, he was given access to the lovely PRISONER.

Remember, NO ONE/LE said it was Caylee on the 11th. We had to wait for confirmation. Isn't he acknowledging her actions implied it WAS her daughter, in a 'backward sort of way'.

Interesting, Baez thinks her actions in the common area would throw a negative light on his innocent defendant. Yet, he doesn't think that waiting 31 days before LE was notfied about Caylee would be harmful....ugly coping of course, and she's not even the one to have brought Caylee missing to light.

Bottom line deal, it's so obvious they are trying ANY way possible to eventually get this tape thrown out completely. God forbid we should make a comparison to her responses between the time Leonard P searched Blanchard Park (only reported by jail personnel & fellow jailmates who witnessed her casual demeanor) and the find on Dec. 11th .

At least Baez has found the right adjective to describe the activities of his defendant, 'UGLY'
 
cecybeans said:
IIRC, jail personnel noticed she may have already been notified as she was listening to her radio in her cell.
Click to expand...

Just wondering, knowing that Casey would hear this news were they not obligated to take her to a secure area where they could watch over her?

I thought she was already on suicide watch. I know JB has revealed that the officers may have said this rarely happens so I'm thinking well, maybe this particular situaton has not ever come up before (as in a recovery of a body while the accused is in custody in solitare and on suicide watch.. who happens to be the mother.) I can't see them leaving her alone in her cell at this time even if I'm incorrect and she was not on suicide watch.
 
sharpar said:
She is in jail - was in a common area that is taped and recorded - and no secret
Once again prisoner is expecting special treatment -
Like everything from defense side so far - its much to do about nothing
The only rights that have been violated are Caylee's
Click to expand...

A question...........does the fact that it is Unusual constitute a problem for the Corrections Officers? If it really is unusual that is. TIA
 
cecybeans said:
IIRC, jail personnel noticed she may have already been notified as she was listening to her radio in her cell.

Legally, I think it's been agreed that KC has no special rights to privacy and can be surveilled or filmed at any time.

Since this was simply a news story about the discovery of what was suspected to be the remains of a child, and not actual confirmation of finding Caylee's body, I don't see why her attorney should have any special rights or access to her. If it had been confirmed, then perhaps it would have been a courtesy to allow him to see her before she found out from other sources, but I seriously doubt any rule or law was broken.

Her attorneys are also trying to invoke some sort of HIPAA-based privacy violation based on her subsequent request for medication, but it does not look like HIPAA rules may even apply and she was not denied medical attention when she requested.

Her attorneys can rail about her rights but it will be difficult to garner public sympathy for this defendant, her family and defense team who have exploited the media and LE for their own gain and profit when it suits them and cry foul when it doesn't turn out to their benefit.
Click to expand...
I want to know WHERE It is written that ONLY her attorney can notify her of anything.
 
faefrost said:
Inmates do not have an absolute right to have their attorney present whenever they wish or demand. They have a right to have an attorney present when they are being actually questioned and no questions may be asked of them without the attorney present. THAT'S IT.

The arguement would have to be that observing the defendents reaction to a particular situation constitutes questioning. Which is going to be a stretch to make.

KC's legal team ddi alot of ranting about ethics, morality, and constitutional rights being violated, once again without citing any actual decisions, case law, etc. Not a strong way to start a legal arguement.
Click to expand...
''It's spretty obvious to me that Baez has no clue how to file a motion of any kind. I have never seen such poorly written documents in my entire life and he doesn't cite case law either. I think you have eto hire the village idiot just to read them.because they make no sense whatsoever. moo
 
I hate this thread because we are still discussing if poor Casey was unfairly treated. (as per her lawyer)

Here is a woman who allowed LP to bail her out and pretty much made a fool out of him, sat by calmly and cooly and watched thousands of people search for her daughter in the heat while we were all sending pizzas per Murt, then watched as LP conducted his search at Jay Blanchard Park with no reaction (and remember...her parents had no reaction either)

And then, when the bones were located 1/4 mile from her house and she saw this on TV at the jail and her reaction was recorded....this is wrong and unfair and illegal (per JB)? Are you freakin' kidding me?
 
sharpar said:
She is in jail - was in a common area that is taped and recorded - and no secret
Once again prisoner is expecting special treatment -
Like everything from defense side so far - its much to do about nothing
The only rights that have been violated are Caylee's
Click to expand...

Well she gets JB's laptop for internet access, why not get more special treatment that other prisoners cannot enjoy?
 
This argument by JB reminds me of long car trips in the backseat with my younger brother... "Mom, she's touching my side of the seat." "Mom, he's breathing on my side of the car." Aggghhhh!!!

I don't believe "Right to Counsel" means that the second JB arrived at the jail everyone had to drop what they were doing, snap their fingers, click their heels, and present the princess. :mad:

She has had access to more legal representation than perhaps all the other inmates combined. :behindbar
 
i didn't vote because i would have voted for

no, defendant was taken to infirmary to be told about a body being found near her home....

KC was told she was going to the infirmary....but KC did not know what for....KC asked for medication after she seen the new's on TV.....

she was seated in the common area first, waiting for a counselor to talk with her...this is the practice that the jail does when there is some *bad* new's that the defendant is going to be told.....i think that LE took advantage of the situation to see how KC would react to the new's on the TV....to see if the reaction was any different from the time that new's broke out about the find at JBP with LP......

why should KC be treated any different then anyone else?

the jail is the one that tells of any *bad new's* not the defendant's counsel....JB knew that KC would freak out....that's why he wanted to be the one to tell her...

i dont remember JB being in such a hurry to be at the jail when the JBP park find was going on....hmmm?
 
cecybeans said:
IIRC, jail personnel noticed she may have already been notified as she was listening to her radio in her cell.

Legally, I think it's been agreed that KC has no special rights to privacy and can be surveilled or filmed at any time.

Since this was simply a news story about the discovery of what was suspected to be the remains of a child, and not actual confirmation of finding Caylee's body, I don't see why her attorney should have any special rights or access to her. If it had been confirmed, then perhaps it would have been a courtesy to allow him to see her before she found out from other sources, but I seriously doubt any rule or law was broken.

Her attorneys are also trying to invoke some sort of HIPAA-based privacy violation based on her subsequent request for medication, but it does not look like HIPAA rules may even apply and she was not denied medical attention when she requested.

Her attorneys can rail about her rights but it will be difficult to garner public sympathy for this defendant, her family and defense team who have exploited the media and LE for their own gain and profit when it suits them and cry foul when it doesn't turn out to their benefit.
Click to expand...

What cecy said sums it up for me, with emphasis on the point that the remains were suspected of being Caylee's.Confirmation did not occur until 12/19/08, IIRC.

Just MO, but the prudent thing for her defense att'y. to do at that point would have been to take the attitude that the remains found were NOT Caylee's until the forensics came back with a positive ID. The motion for protective order to not release the recording does nothing but cast even more suspicion on what his client knew at the time of discovery, IMO.
 
The jail is charged with Casey's care, custody and control. As an inmate Casey has no reasonable expectation of privacy she was in a common area and is not the only inmate to pass through. What doesn't JB understand about this?
 
IIRC didn't someone from LE do the actual notification to KC when the remains were formally identified as Caylee? And didn't JB whinge on about that until it was established that the jail followed the correct protocol? So how can JB possibly contend that he and only he had the right to tell KC that remains were found that at that time were not even known to be Caylee's? Especially since he didn't make a point of doing so when potential bones were found in the water near BP.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 174 more.
Total: 2,693 (members: 175, guests: 2,518)

Online statistics

Members online
175
Guests online
2,518
Total visitors
2,693
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,208
Messages
17,965,115
Members
228,718
Latest member
CourtandSims4
Back
Top