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  1. #1
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    Your theory (other than intruder please!)

    Ok........I know everyone on here has logged extensive time rehashing the known information and disscussing theories but Im new here (and excited to talk to others still interested in the case!) and am wondering if youd share your definitive theory on what YOU think happened if you dont mindgoing over it for the umpteenth time!


    Im interested in everything ........John did it,Patsy did it, John and Patsy did it,Burke did it,JAR did it,Granpa Paugh did it and even hearing about Brother Moons POMJB connection (I still havent sorted that out yet!)..............ANYTHING but Fleet White or the Intruder theory(sorry MaiKai but Im just not buying it!).


    I myself dont have an actual theory just that one or more of the Ramseys did it and/are covering up for it..........the actuals Im just not sure of so Im interested in reading everyones opinions.


    Thank you in advance for sharing!!!!!!!
    The saints are the sinners who keep trying...

  2. #2
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    In my constitutionally-protected opinion, I believe Patsy is likely the guilty party. It has been difficult to summarize why, but I think I have finally distilled my theory to its essence.

    In my opinion, Patsy killed JonBenet as an act of premeditation, to force John to stop worshipping his dead daughter Beth, and to force John to pay more attention to his own wife in her role as a grieving mother. On both of these fronts, success was achieved. John no longer worships Beth, and pays much more attention to Patsy than he was doing in the months leading up to JonBenet's murder. This would be why Patsy would have no motive to confess, ever.

    Beth was killed on January 8th, 1992. January 8th is not a special day or particularly memorable for any other reason than Beth dying then. On the other hand, JonBenet was killed on Christmas. If you wanted to create a death which was memorable, you could do no better than to kill someone on a holiday whose date is always known. This would serve a Patsy-did-it theory of wanting to take away from the impact of Beth's death by making JonBenet's so much worse, and by having the murder take place on Patsy's favorite holiday, making her appear even more of a victim and therefore more in need of John's care and concern.
    "That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk

  3. #3
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    I'll try to make this as compact as possible.

    There are many Patsy did it theories, and many of them make a lot of sense and are very feasible

    There are many John did it theories, and many of them make a lot of sense and are very feasible.

    There are many Burke did it theories, and many of them make a lot of sense and are very feasible.

    I personally wonder about Grandpa Paugh, but have no real "theory" to establish as information regarding him has been a well kept secret, but he is on my personal list of "possibilities"

    Now, the most feasible reason for me that the Ramsey family knows damn well what happened that night and by whom is:

    THE ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE! My personal feelings about this case is that the absence of real "intruder" evidence is a wealth of evidence leading right back to the Ramseys. Forensic specialists will tell you that the absence of evidence sometimes tells more of a story than overt evidence.

    In this case, all "evidence" claimed to support intruder theories is speculative:

    1. Stun gun: First of all, never proven. Second of all, IF a stun gun was used, it no more exonerates the Ramseys than any other suspect.
    2. DNA: Also, speculative. It supposedly exonerates the Ramseys, but yet, suspects whose DNA doesn't match are still considered suspects. No, I can't explain that.
    3. Duct tape, cord: This is a red herring that has been tossed around for years. It hasn't been found. Why and how that exonerates the Ramseys is beyond me.
    4. The Ransom Note: Patsy wrote the note, and nobody else has even been suspected as being the author other than Patsy, at least publicly.
    5. Window, etc: Nobody came in through that window, and there was NO disturbance by the window well.
    6. Suitcase by the window: It just happened to contain a Dr. Seuss book with JAR's semen on a blanket, also inside the suitcase.
    7. No footprints outside of the Ramsey house.
    8. Palm print and footprint: Both have been identified as Ramsey
    9. Hair: Reportedly shown to be an underarm hair from Patsy (I think, not positive about the underarm part)
    10. Fibers: Found to be consistent with Patsy and no other fibers of unknown origin found.

    There is plenty more to the list, but there is not one shred of intruder evidence that hasn't been disputed by LE, not just us forum, beer can collecting people with no life and to be pitied.

    All the intruder evidence thus far is purely speculation.

    Again, the ABSENCE of evidence tells me the real story.

    Hope this was somewhat helpful
    This is my opinion only
    This post may not be copied to any other forum

    God Bless America

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by why_nutt
    In my constitutionally-protected opinion, I believe Patsy is likely the guilty party. It has been difficult to summarize why, but I think I have finally distilled my theory to its essence.

    In my opinion, Patsy killed JonBenet as an act of premeditation, to force John to stop worshipping his dead daughter Beth, and to force John to pay more attention to his own wife in her role as a grieving mother. On both of these fronts, success was achieved. John no longer worships Beth, and pays much more attention to Patsy than he was doing in the months leading up to JonBenet's murder. This would be why Patsy would have no motive to confess, ever.

    Beth was killed on January 8th, 1992. January 8th is not a special day or particularly memorable for any other reason than Beth dying then. On the other hand, JonBenet was killed on Christmas. If you wanted to create a death which was memorable, you could do no better than to kill someone on a holiday whose date is always known. This would serve a Patsy-did-it theory of wanting to take away from the impact of Beth's death by making JonBenet's so much worse, and by having the murder take place on Patsy's favorite holiday, making her appear even more of a victim and therefore more in need of John's care and concern.

    OMG Why Nut. I never, ever, thought of that.

    I believe that Patsy is a hard core narcissist. Capable of almost anything to keep herself in the spotlight.

    Your theory has stopped me in my tracks.
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  5. #5

    Oh I like this thread

    such a rehash but oh so fun. I need to confirm one fact, where JB's feet dusty from the basement floor? Was this confirmed as a fact or rumor?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbara
    Again, the ABSENCE of evidence tells me the real story
    Right Barbara. That is it in a nutshell.

    Trying to figure out what happened, who did what to whom, that is the tough part.
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    Tricia Griffith
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  7. #7
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    IMO it's one of the following:

    1.
    Killer: Patsy
    Premeditated
    Abuser: Patsy
    Motive: Munchausen By Proxy-ish or psychotic-ish
    e.g. see Why_nutt's and BrotherMoon's theories

    2.
    Killer: Patsy
    Premeditated
    Abuser: John or Pa Paugh
    Motive: to prevent the incest secret from ever being revealed
    e.g. see Purgatory poster Ayelean's theory

    3.
    Killers: Patsy or Patsy and John
    Unintended near-death followed by murder
    Abuser: John
    Motive: duh

    4.
    Killers: Patsy and John
    Premeditated
    Abuser: John
    Motive: a twist on Munchausen By Proxy--for attention, notoriety and a career in politics

    Who DIDN'T do it: Burke and the Intruder.
    The intruder is innocent! JMO

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricia
    OMG Why Nut. I never, ever, thought of that.

    I believe that Patsy is a hard core narcissist. Capable of almost anything to keep herself in the spotlight.

    Your theory has stopped me in my tracks.
    If you want what I believe to be further confirmation of this theory, that JonBenet's death was meant to trump Beth's, look at this little collection of facts:

    Before JonBenet was killed, John did indeed worship Beth. He kept her flight wings. He kept her pictures in his bathroom (I have never heard anything to the contrary that he refrained from keeping pictures of his other children or his wife there). He kept her car. He kept her bed (it was one of the ones in JonBenet's room). He named his favorite airplane after her.

    But now? I was looking over the list of items taken in the Atlanta robbery John reported. You will never guess what caught my eye.

    Beth's gold sorority ring was taken, a ring she wore on her own person, one more tenuous contact between John and his beloved daughter, stolen by an intruder.

    And John has not bothered to call attention to how much he hates the intruder for having taken this most precious of sentimental items, something which is truly irreplaceable. Instead, it is given no more value than his flight bag and his credit cards.

    As you can see, in my theory, Patsy has truly won. Beth is no longer worshipped. Instead, she now has as much place in John's past as the woman he had the affair with does. It is JonBenet, through her tragic murder, who is the more important daughter now, JonBenet, the daughter of John and the ever-grieving Patsy, to whom attention must be paid.
    "That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk

  9. #9
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    As always, Why_Nutt, awesome and brilliant posts!
    This is my opinion only
    This post may not be copied to any other forum

    God Bless America

  10. #10
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    The Killer: Patsy Ramsey

    Abuser: Patsy Ramsey

    Sexual Abuser of Jonbenet: Patsy Ramsey/Mother Daughter Incest

    "Mother-daughter sexual abuse is not about homosexuality. In fact, the vast majority of abusers are married and heterosexual. This form of abuse is about a mother’s distorted views about herself and her daughter. The mother may be a survivor of abuse and act out her own experiences with her daughter. The mother may find it unbearable to see any part of herself in her daughter, and displace her own anger and shame over her sexuality onto her daughter. The mother often wishes to dominate and control her daughter, while also seeking emotional support from her, sometimes resulting in a reversal of roles".

    http://mdsa-online.org/

    Motive For Murder: Patsy was extremely jealous of Jonbenet's accomplishments and good looks. Jonbenet was more of a daddy's girl which made Patsy furious.

    What does Parkersburg WV and the University Of West Virginia have to say about Patsy Ramsey? Well, she slept her way through school, told aspiring beauty queens not to jog because "jogging, for a woman, makes everything drop. LOL

    http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=pat...ail.com&rnum=7


  11. #11
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    Why Nutt,

    Very interesting... how does the sexual abuse factor into your theory


    Thanks
    Jubie

  12. #12
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    Okay, I'll give it a shot.

    If I beleive a Ramsey did it, I would have to say John Andrew. I'm not sure about motive, but I beleive it was premeditated and he even approached someone else in Michigan the previous summer to to try to have her killed in an "accident". The neighbor across the street, Barnhill, originally stated he saw John Andrew approaching the house on Christmas day, which places John Andrew at the scene of the crime.

    I think that the sexual abuse is a red herring. I don't think that there was any, other than the aspects of the murder itself. I think that John Andrew intentionally placed suspicion on Patsy because he didn't like her either. At one point he even cast suspicion on her verbally when asked about her. His response to what should happen to the killer was that the killer should be forgiven.

    I think that John knows that John Andrew is the murderer and discovered this during the Atlanta funeral trip and at this point started covering up for his older son. Perhaps he feels to blame for whatever caused John Andrew to do it.

    Based on the timeline developed long ago by MJenn and TLynn, there was plenty of time for him to do the deed and get back to Atlanta by morning for his flight to Michigan, ATM photo and all.

    All of this is purely my opinion based on my readings of the available books and information found on this and other forums.

  13. #13
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    Patsy killed JonBenet as one part of a long process known as a psychotic fantasy that started well before 12-25-'96 and continues to this day.

    The common thread that ties Patsy with the crime is literature.

    To make a long psychological story short: in classic narcissistic fashion, Patsy subsumed JonBenet's identity and she became an object through which Patsy attempted ro resolve her inner conflicts. Ultimately, the object was used as a factor in a percieved relationship with a super natural being. That relationship was an adult compensation for a childhood lack of recognition and identity development.

    Most crudely put, Patsy made an angel. This is typical of psychotic thinking, a destructive act is seen as a creative act.

  14. #14
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    Burke - Burke - Burke

    OK, I'll be the first to weigh-in with a Burke Did It theory.

    Burke was molesting JonBenet by playing a simple game of "Doctor" with her--something he had done in the past as indicated by the experts who saw signs of "chronic" sexual abuse.

    Only this time Burke went too far and hurt her. She started to bleed and cry out for Patsy. Burke panicked and hit her as hard as he could over the head with the Maglite flashlight, which would later be found to match the hole in her skull. JonBenet began to convulse violently from the head concussion and died within 3-minutes. People who die from convulsions literally suffocate to death as they are unable to gasp for air. The petechial hemorrhages later misinterpreted by the coroner (and others) as being from the ligature strangulation was actually caused by the convulsive suffocation.

    John and Patsy almost immediately discovered what happened and they didn't know what to do. They didn't know if Burke could be arrested, and if so, they didn't know what he would be charged with. A panicked Patsy tried looking up the word "incest" in the dictionary, but it told her nothing about the law. John decided he had to take matters into his own hands and protect his youngest child. "Now I've lost a second daughter", he said to Patsy, "and I will NOT lose a son because of this!".

    The Ramseys knew two things had to be accomplished: The crime had to be pointed outside the house, and Burke had to be convinced he was not responsible for his sister's death. A ransom note would point the crime elsewhere, but a different method of death would be required to prove to Burke someone else (not him) was responsible for her death.

    John took her body into the basement and decided a cord around her neck would be the "new" method of death. He tried to pull the cord tight but his efforts failed because it was nylon and it slipped in his hands. All he did was create a few marks that Dr. Spitz would later see as evidence of a prior strangulation. John needed some leverage, so he broke off one of Patsy's paint brushes and tied it onto the cord. He was able to yank the cord extremely tight using the stick, causing post-mortem bruising under the cord. Because she was already dead, the cord did no damage to the organs in her neck as the autopsy would later reveal.

    To complete the staging of the body, John tied more cord around her wrists and applied a piece of duct take from Patsy's paint tote to her mouth. Then in an effort to make the molestation look "less childlike", he inserted the broken-off end of the paintbrush into her, trying to cause more bleeding. Because she was dead the effort failed, but it did leave a sliver of the wooden brush inside her.

    Returning upstairs, John joined Patsy in the authoring of the ransom note that would point the crime outside the house. It was John's idea to use his bonus amount as the ransom demand to make it look like an "inside job".

    The rest is pretty easy to figure out from there........

  15. #15

    You asked for it....I have to do it in parts

    Such a re-hash you got to love it:

    Boy 8 years of discussing what we know as evidence. My conclusion? (This is going to be long LOL:

    1.) The Ramsey’s returned home from the White’s house on the evening of the 25th. JonBenet was still awake and helped carry in gifts just like Burke remembers. Both the kids get dressed for bed and I believe it was JB that put on the oversized panties, (I will tell you why later) wanting to wear her new shirt to bed, she just changed into long johns. Most likely at the request of Patsy because of the cold night.

    2.) Patsy was in and out of the basement, gathering suitcases, and wrapping gifts. JonBenet most likely accompanied her on some of those trips to the basement which resulted in JB’s dusty feet.

    3.) At some point either Patsy or Burke served JonBenet some pineapple. – I think Burke most likely did, because at this point in time, I believe Patsy was too busy trying to arrange things at the last minute for the trip the next morning. –Could be another reason the Ramsey’s didn’t remember JonBenet having any. As Patsy states – “This isn’t my set up, large spoon in bowl”. This is something a kid would do. By the way I don’t think Burke was ever questioned about the pineapple, because I believe this wasn’t a known fact until long after Burke’s interview with police. Burke IMO holds the KEY to the pineapple, because JB’s prints weren’t found on the bowl. Wonder if the large spoon was ever finger printed? Bet not.

    4.) Burke assembled his model plane with his dad, and my thoughts are that Patsy may have decided at this point with JonBenet’s upcoming pageant to dye JB’s hair. This also explains the gloves. Because I don’t think a panicked parent would remember plastic gloves to use as a cover up unless they were already out. The gloves are important to this case because if an intruder used them, then that suggests planning on his part, yet he forgot to write the ransom note ahead of time. And why would any intruder bring 2 sets of gloves? One winter set and one plastic set? Doesn’t make any sense. You can’t have the killer thinking logical and then illogical. The fact that Patsy admitted to dying JB’s hair ties in the fact that these sort of gloves were accessible to her. I would wonder if any hair dye was removed from the house and the befringement material found on JB was matched to other gloves packaged in the same hair dye kits? Bet not. I wonder if investigators ever noted MISSING gloves from the hair dying kit? The key to this clue would be any photos taken at the White’s house that evening, or their testimony of how JB wore her hair, which is why the White’s would be the number one people I would question besides the Ramsey’s. I don’t believe the way JB was found with the hair ties in her hair was the way she dressed at the White’s. This is CRUCIAL since the Ramsey’s said they put JonBenet to bed immediately when they arrived home. Since the hair wasn’t dyed that we know of, what reason was there to re-do JB’s hair with hair ties, unless of course Patsy was using them in the process of dying her hair, which I have been told is done by sectioning the hair. With what we know from the Ramsey’s and all the photos of JonBenet, have we ever seen one where she doesn’t match? Do BLUE hair ties match black pants and a white sequined star shirt, if that is even what she wore to the Whites? The reason I came to this conclusion is because I believe the fracture to JB’s head came directly from a hard flat surface, and in my opinion that surface would be the bathtub or hard fixture in the bathroom. It also would be the reason for the nail mark to JB’s leg from Patsy grabbing her while trying to do her hair or getting her ready to dye her hair. I don’t believe she was bathed because JonBenet had dusty feet when she was found. Dying a 6 year old’s hair under stress with little time, would be my most likely scenario for why Patsy blew up. JonBenet wasn’t behaving and WHACK, Patsy lost it before she even got the change to dye her hair. I don’t buy the bed wetting theory, because the crime scene photos tell me the bed was not remade, and JB’s full bladder emptied at the time of her death consistent with urine stains to the front and thighs.

    5.) Burke at this point was most likely already in bed. I believe JonBenet was first cracked in the skull and BELIEVED to have been dead sometime between 11:00pm-12am. Which is why the Ramsey’s consciously chose to use the December 25th date on her tombstone. The head blow came first but I don’t believe Patsy told John immediately what she had done. I believe John most likely retired to bed as he states before the incident ever happened. I believe Patsy also thought at this point she had already killed JonBenet, and therefore began the cover-up. With a blow to the head that severe, JonBenet was most certainly unconscious and unresponsive. I don’t believe that the head blow and strangulation came simultaneously. For that scenario to have worked JB would have already have been in the basement. I believe it wasn’t until after Patsy cracked JB in the skull that she panicked and decided to move JonBenet to the basement and at one point placed her in the suitcase, with the intent of removing her from the house. I believe this would be a natural person’s reaction to cover up a crime. To get the body OUT of the house. I don’t know how long JB was in the suitcase but long enough to produce marks to her face and back, which is why there are only one set of marks to the side of the face and one to the arch of the back, which coincides with a child curled up in a suitcase face pressed against a SNAP and back against a HINGE or RIBBET from the suitcase itself. Even one expert observed the marks looked like they were from a SNAP. JB was most likely hidden in that suitcase while Patsy thought about what to do and took the time to construct the long rambling ransom note. It also explains the swelling in JB’ skull and the lack of blood in her cranial cavity. It explains why there would be NO livididy to the side of JB’s body because JB was STILL ALIVE at this point.

    6.) The black tape and rope were purchased by Patsy a month prior to the crime, but were purchased for her paintings, most likely kept in the paint tote, with her paint brushes, which explains why all 3 items were used. So I have come to the most likely conclusion that this was NOT a premeditated murder. Patsy liked JonBenet around, because JonBenet set Patsy off. She was her trophy. JonBenet brought ATTENTION to Patsy. However with Patsy’s psychotic behavior and the stress of the holiday’s and trip to Michigan, cruise and pageant coming up, Patsy snapped. I think Patsy did ALL of the staging, because NO man with common sense would have placed a small piece of tape over the child’s mouth. He can’t be THAT stupid. This was done by a woman. Had John been involved at this point, he would have known that this looked FAKE. Also the fact that the rope was cut by using Burke Ramsey’s pocketknife that ONLY Patsy and Linda knew where it was hidden, tells me that Patsy was the one that cut and tied that garrote. Because it’s hard for me to believe that one parent cut the rope and the other tied the device. You wouldn’t be taking turns during a situation like this. I came to this conclusion after much thought, and years of contemplating. But Patsy had to tie in her scenario she used in the note “Foreign Faction” to the body. By constructing the device it ADDS to the believability that a Foreign Faction was involved in Patsy’s mind.

    To be continued....

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