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  1. #1
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    REVISIT Autopsy Report - Location/Decompostion of Caylee's Clothes

    Not sure where to put this, because it is actually in one of the other reports, but would both the Captains of the Brain Trust take a look & comment on this post brought over from another thread?

    Posted by Macushla

    On page 9 of the third part of the autopsy report released (handwritten page #6459) it states that "remnants of light colored fabric were noted on the anterior aspect of the right scapula and the proximal anterior aspect of the right humerus." Does this suggest she was clothed when she was put there or might this fabric come from the Winnie the Pooh blanket? What do you all think?
    Could you delve into the clothed/unclothed theory at time of placement a bit?

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    Autopsy Report - Location/Decompostion of Caylee's Clothes

    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoHead View Post
    Not sure where to put this, because it is actually in one of the other reports, but would both the Captains of the Brain Trust take a look & comment on this post brought over from another thread?

    Posted by Macushla

    Could you delve into the clothed/unclothed theory at time of placement a bit?
    Hi PH,

    I believe Caylee was clothed. In all, LE found lettering scattered throughout the crime scene that said "Big Trouble Comes In Small Packages". IMHO this lettering was originally on Caylee's shirt, and the material of the shirt had largely rotted away by the time the body was found.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWG View Post
    Hi PH,

    I believe Caylee was clothed. In all, LE found lettering scattered throughout the crime scene that said "Big Trouble Comes In Small Packages". IMHO this lettering was originally on Caylee's shirt, and the material of the shirt had largely rotted away by the time the body was found.


    I agree.

    I did read several posts yesterday debating whether Caylee's shorts were on or off - posted by members educated in animal behaviors as they apply to forensics. That is where my confusion lies. I'd love to have some degree of certainty that Caylee was fully clothed.

    I feel that you & Bond may be able to help us sort this out in language us plain folk can understand.

    I'll bring back links to the relevant posts in just a moment.

    ETA: Thread must have been moved. I can't locate any of the posts now.

    In short, there was speculation that the shorts were not on Caylee's body. I believe they were, but do not have the scientific abilities to support that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWG View Post
    Hi PH,

    I believe Caylee was clothed. In all, LE found lettering scattered throughout the crime scene that said "Big Trouble Comes In Small Packages". IMHO this lettering was originally on Caylee's shirt, and the material of the shirt had largely rotted away by the time the body was found.
    If Caylee had been wearing the shirt, the shirt would have been dragged away with the torso/spinal column and found with the thoracic vertebrae not in the bag. I think the shirt was in the bag, not on the body. Same thing with the shorts. The dispersal reports show that the femurs and pelvis were dragged away while still attached to each other. If the shorts were on the body, they would have been found with the femurs and pelvis instead of in the bag. The flesh would have decomposed away long before the clothing would have rotted off.

    Why KC disrobed Caylee is anyone's guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecs5298 View Post
    If Caylee had been wearing the shirt, the shirt would have been dragged away with the torso/spinal column and found with the thoracic vertebrae not in the bag. I think the shirt was in the bag, not on the body. Same thing with the shorts. The dispersal reports show that the femurs and pelvis were dragged away while still attached to each other. If the shorts were on the body, they would have been found with the femurs and pelvis instead of in the bag. The flesh would have decomposed away long before the clothing would have rotted off.

    Why KC disrobed Caylee is anyone's guess.
    I've only skimmed the report but I believe I recall reading that a piece of material (description suggests pullup) was found on or with part of the illium or maybe it was the femur. If this is correct it goes along with what you're saying. She was wearing a pullup and it was drug away with the bone. She may have had only a pullup on when she died or her shirt and shirt were removed after she died.

    I'd read the report more thoroughly if didn't have to go to work soon but I'll check this out when I can.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
    I've only skimmed the report but I believe I recall reading that a piece of material (description suggests pullup) was found on or with part of the illium or maybe it was the femur. If this is correct it goes along with what you're saying. She was wearing a pullup and it was drug away with the bone. She may have had only a pullup on when she died or her shirt and shirt were removed after she died.

    I'd read the report more thoroughly if didn't have to go to work soon but I'll check this out when I can.
    Yes it did say that.

    Do we know if the quantity of material was ever determined to be just one shirt and just one pair of shorts? I think Casey could have just dumped all of Caylee's things that she had in the car at the time. So there could be shirt remains in the bag as well as scattered around if there was more than one shirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecs5298 View Post
    If Caylee had been wearing the shirt, the shirt would have been dragged away with the torso/spinal column and found with the thoracic vertebrae not in the bag. I think the shirt was in the bag, not on the body. Same thing with the shorts. The dispersal reports show that the femurs and pelvis were dragged away while still attached to each other. If the shorts were on the body, they would have been found with the femurs and pelvis instead of in the bag. The flesh would have decomposed away long before the clothing would have rotted off.

    Why KC disrobed Caylee is anyone's guess.
    I'm not sure that the remnants of the shirt and the shorts were in the laundry bag. The way that I read it was that the clothes were collected and put into an evidence bag like other items such as the skull were put in different brown evidence bags. There's no mention of the clothes in the description of the black garbage bags and the laundry bag. So, it seems like the remnants of the shirt and the shorts were scattered around, but I'm not sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecs5298 View Post
    If Caylee had been wearing the shirt, the shirt would have been dragged away with the torso/spinal column and found with the thoracic vertebrae not in the bag. I think the shirt was in the bag, not on the body. Same thing with the shorts. The dispersal reports show that the femurs and pelvis were dragged away while still attached to each other. If the shorts were on the body, they would have been found with the femurs and pelvis instead of in the bag. The flesh would have decomposed away long before the clothing would have rotted off.

    Why KC disrobed Caylee is anyone's guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
    I've only skimmed the report but I believe I recall reading that a piece of material (description suggests pullup) was found on or with part of the illium or maybe it was the femur. If this is correct it goes along with what you're saying. She was wearing a pullup and it was drug away with the bone. She may have had only a pullup on when she died or her shirt and shirt were removed after she died.

    I'd read the report more thoroughly if didn't have to go to work soon but I'll check this out when I can.
    I did a quick reread and I think the material I referred to in my post above was that found with the r. scapula (anterior) and the r. humerus (posterior, anterior). These were found with the bags (area a). I think the material is part of the shirt as the blanket description didn't mention any holes/tears in it. To me it suggests she was wearing a shirt. They took the material off these bones for testing so we will know this eventually.

    The shorts were found out of the bags and a foot or two away. I would think they would be found with the bones of the trunk or legs if she had been wearing them. They may have slipped off before the trunk was dragged too far but the legs were still attached to the pelvis/trunk when these bones came to their final resting place. With the legs attached to the pelvis, I wouldn't expect the shorts to slip off only a foot away from the bags. So, I think it's very possible she wasn't wearing the shorts.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoHead View Post
    Mine, too. And AE's.

    I think we must have been O/T on the thread. Dang shame, because there was some great discussion there about the shorts.

    Ah well, I will wait patiently for you to recreate the greatness that was your post.
    Oh no, I forgot we were on the decomp thread. Do we have a thread for this? Would it be the clothes or skeletal dispersal?


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    TY, Great Mod with Pixie Dust! That makes this much easier!


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    Is there statements to the fact that Caylee had a T-shirt with the "Big Trouble Comes In Small Packages" wording on it on the last day she was seen...did GA actually attest to this? If so....boy.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattymarie View Post
    Is there statements to the fact that Caylee had a T-shirt with the "Big Trouble Comes In Small Packages" wording on it on the last day she was seen...did GA actually attest to this? If so....boy.....
    We've seen photos of this shirt before. So much for Caylee not being clothed, or wearing a bathing suit/Mickey Mouse dress theories, and so much for Casey's concern about them not finding her clothes!
    We now know exactly what clothes were found with her/on her.
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    I don't think so. IIRC, George did state that Caylee's t-shirt was pink, but did not describe the lettering. I am not surprised by that. To remember that the t-shirt was pink is enough.

    My main question is still to those with scientific leanings - do the reports seem to indicate that Caylee was still in her pull-up &/or shorts? I *think* yes, but still not sure.

    Marina2's post made a lot of sense, in which case I wonder if the shorts were ever in the bags, or if they were just tossed in the trunk in a mad dash to gather up anything nearby Caylee? I don't put a lot of weight in some statements, but is it possible that if Caylee's shorts were outside of the bags that this is what KC meant by, "They haven't even found her clothes?"

    (I think, deep down, I am also irrationally hoping that someone will 'prove' that Caylee was fully clothed. Somehow, I think that will take a bit of sting out of the reports.)

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    My interest is in the deterioration in which the shirt experienced. Let's just say we all throw a shirt out in the water for 6 months. What would happen? I wonder what kind of deterioration would occur. I wonder if "chloroform" accelerates the effect on deterioration of clothing.
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    We couldn't just throw a shirt out into water for six months and expect to find similar results of what happened to Caylee's clothing. Remember, her clothing, if on or near her, was exposed to her decomposition as well as the dirty water in the woods. I would think the decomposition would have some effect on the clothing, moreso than clothing just setting in water for six months with nothing else.

    We could try the experiment with several different shirts, using different ingredients in each experiment. We should begin ASAP because this is June 20th and we want to have conditions as close as possible to conditions in Orlando last year. That means experiments should be conducted in similar climate.

    While we're at it, we can toss pizza into our trunks, too, to see if they smell "rotten" in one month.

    This type of testing would be very difficult to duplicate since we don't have all the specifics, although I'd love to try the pizza thing if it didn't stink up my car.

    Did KC really think a body in a trunk wouldn't begin to decompose quickly in the summer heat?

    For the record, I hope the child's body was clothed at the end. I can't imagine a mother not covering her young daughter's naked body. But again, this is KC we're talking about. None of this screams "accident" to me.
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