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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #6 (New Smoking Gun Theories for DP)

    To help us consolidate and review...

    As we all know, the SA has put the DP back on the table. It was originally a listed option of course, when KC was indicted for Murder One last October, but taken off a month or so later after T Lenamon put together his thirty-some page argument/mercy plea indicating this was likely an accidental death based on a drug overdose of some kind and hinted at PPD issues or some other mitigating mental imbalance that might make LWOP or felony manslaughter more appropriate for this case.

    After Caylee’s body was found, an additional search warrant was executed, and other evidence then seized sent to the lab, the results of some of which we have been able to see in doc dumps, others we have not.. After the autopsy, the ME ruled Caylee’s death a homicide on Dec 19, despite the fact there was no clear COD.

    Since then, of course, DP has been re-entered in the charges, although some time did elapse before it was brought back (perhaps to allow the Anthony family to have their memorial a couple of months later).

    Quite a few legal eagles have speculated that, without a clear COD (and the possibility that accidental death cannot be overruled despite all the “ugly” behavior or that the duct tape could be post-mortem or the chloroform could be cleaning fluid) the only reason the DP was put back into place was that death penalty juries tend to be more conservative. Even though the voir dire process is more time-consuming and the trial itself more expensive, it has been used recently as a strategy to elevate what might be a felony manslaughter to at least Murder One LWOP if there just isn’t enough evidence to decide between accidental and premeditated death. Conversely, others have assumed that if the DP was back on the table, JB would simply have to fold his circus tent and recuse himself for being underqualified. Now that AL is on the scene, that may be moot.

    Since we have just seen the autopsy results, many of us have changed some of our thinking on various elements of the case.

    Leaving either of the above theories aside, I thought it would be interesting to combine what we now know about old evidence with other recent evidence we have seen – or thoughts on what might still not be released – and see if we could speculate on what type of “smoking gun” or “magic bullet” (please pardon the inappropriate analogy and feel free to send me a reasonable subsititute) we could come up with that would make this DP now a slam-dunk for the State of Florida. I’m hoping we can stick to guesses based on specific potential physical items or forensic evidence if possible, and avoid subjective interpretations, or ones that could be easily shot down by some defense attorney explanation (reasonable or not).

    I’m hoping if we can hammer out what may be waiting for us that is either not yet released or what is already released but incontrovertible, we will all feel more confident that Caylee will eventually get the justice she deserves.
    Last edited by cecybeans; 06-22-2009 at 04:18 AM. Reason: spelling mistakes
    "Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" - Voltaire

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Culpeper, Virginia
    Posts
    3,198
    Quote Originally Posted by cecybeans View Post
    To help us consolidate and review...

    As we all know, the SA has put the DP back on the table. It was originally a listed option of course, when KC was indicted for Murder One last October, but taken off a month or so later after T Lenamon put together his thirty-some page argument/mercy plea indicating this was likely an accidental death based on a drug overdose of some kind and hinted at PPD issues or some other mitigating mental imbalance that might LWOP or felony manslaughter more appropriate for this case.

    After Caylee’s body was found, an additional search warrant was executed, and other evidence sent to the lab, the results of some of which we have been able to see in doc dumps, others we have not.. After the autopsy, the ME ruled Caylee’s death a homicide on Dec 19, despite the fact there was no clear COV.

    Since then, of course, it has been re-entered in the charges, although some time did elapse before it was brought back (perhaps to allow the Anthony family to have their memorial a couple of months later).

    Quite a few legal eagles have speculated that, without a clear COV (and the possibility that accidental death cannot be overruled despite all the “ugly” behavior or that the duct tape could be post-mortem or the chloroform could be cleaning fluid) the only reason the DP was put back into place was that death penalty juries tend to be more conservative. Even though the voir dire process is more time-consuming and the trial itself more expensive, it has been used recently as a strategy to elevate what might be a felony manslaughter to at least Murder One LWOP if there just isn’t enough evidence to decide between accidental and premeditated death. Conversely, others have assumed that if the DP was back on the table, JB would simply have to fold his circus tent and recuse himself for being underqualified. Now that AL is on the scene, that may be moot.

    Since we have just seen the autopsy results, many of us have changed some of our thinking on various elements of the case.

    Leaving either of the above theories aside, I thought it would be interesting to combine what we now know about old evidence with other recent evidence we have seen – or thoughts on what might still not be released – and see if we could speculate on what type of “smoking gun” or “magic bullet” (please pardon the inappropriate analogy and feel free to send me a reasonable subsititute) we could come up with that would make this DP now a slam-dunk for the State of Florida. I’m hoping we can stick to guesses based on specific potential physical items or forensic evidence if possible, and avoid subjective interpretations, or ones that could be easily shot down by some defense attorney explanation (reasonable or not).

    I’m hoping if we can hammer out what may be waiting for us that is either not yet released or what is already released but incontrovertible, we will all feel more confident that Caylee will eventually get the justice she deserves.

    I just read the first sentence of your post and have to applaud you already I need consolidation!

    Have to go read the rest!

  3. #3
    Duct tape over the mouth and the nose-thus blocking all air passages and placed pre-death-prior to decomposition beginning. I think this will be one of the bullets from the gun...who tapes their baby's entire face "shut" like that? A loving mother? Nope...GUILTY!

    I second the applause on your opening post. Totally awesome!

    ABC provided $200,000.00 to
    Casey Anthonys defense!
    The MURDERED should not be USED to pay for the MURDERERS DEFENSE!

    American Tragedy: The defense of Casey Anthony.

    Juror No. 11 somehow made the journey from Casey is the one on trial to George may be a murderer, based on how George acted on the stand? 3 years of evidence against Casey and he throws George under the bus. Makes sense?
    What evidence indicated that George might be a murderer? Anyone?
    Weren't they to ONLY consider EVIDENCE?
    This NOT GUILTY verdict throws Caylee right back into the swamp she decomposed in. Thanks to this "impartial" jury.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,009
    On July 7th KC posted on her photobucket, in part:

    “On the worst of worst days,
    remember the words spoken
    Trust no one,
    Only yourself.
    With great power,
    comes great consequence.
    What is given,
    Can be taken away.
    Everyone Lies.
    Everyone Dies.”

    Taking what KC wrote into consideration...is it a possibility that the SA put the DP back on the table (without a definitive cause of death) because KC left a note with Caylee's remains? JMO. Not saying one exists. But wouldn't this be something that would negate any defense theories about an accidental death? After Caylee died, KC was bold enough to get a tatoo "Bella Vita" on July 3rd and on July 7th was bold enough to write what I posted above...what if she left something behind that said, "Caylee, this is why you had to die..."

    TY for your thread...I was waiting for this...hint hint...thank you cecy for posting this and for letting me bully you about it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Culpeper, Virginia
    Posts
    3,198
    I have to wonder if DC plays into the decision, as well as some of the forensics we have not seen. Did his phone records indicate he was talking to a case player during his infamous video in the woods? Was LE able to "compel" him to talk? Maybe he told LE that someone close to KC was "told" by her where the body was.

    Here is one smoking gun scenario: DC is talking to LA. LA knew where he should look, but LA did not have that info directly from KC-He found the info amongst KC's things (missing diary pages? a computer file?) Tells DC about where he found the info (DC asks a lot of questions and could have assured LA that he had confidentiality with KC), and DC ultimately tells police.
    Now DC's lawyer is back-tracking, trying to get DC's communications sealed.

    ETA: The police would have to have the diary pages/solid info for it to be a true smoking gun, so I will just tuck this stinky one into my theory pocket!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    310
    I can't help but feel that the paper towels may well be the reason for the DP back on, in conjunction with the autopsy results. Decomp on the towels and their location in the trash bag in the trunk of her car. That completely throws her Zanny the Nanny defense out the window. Add that with the hundreds of other pieces of evidence and her never reporting her child missing. It seems to be coming together rather well for the SA. Who knows what else they have that we haven't been privy to. In this case, I don't see one particular item that makes the case....there are too many to choose from!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,009
    It to me, is interesting to speculate, what the SA may be holding close to the vest that might indicate a motive/sense of guilt on the part of KC...why the SA may have put the DP back on the table without a definitive cause of death. My thought was a note written to Caylee from KC found with her remains...We all are wondering if there is a smoking gun...what would it be...that would show anything other than Caylee died accidentally...what is it?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,034
    I don't know if this will be a smoking gun ... but this is my theory de jour ... pool chemicals taken from house by LE. I looked up the brand and it is considered a biocide ... which is the same classification of chemicals that crime scene clean up experts use. Information on the internet about this is ubiquitous! In fact, if you search terms like "clean decomposition" "human decomposition" "odor of death in car" "crime scene cleanup" etc, at the various "Q&A" sites, you might see a few postings from last year around this very same time that make your blood run cold! I am not saying that the poster was KC ... but who knows ... especially if she was on a friend's computer. A few nights ago, I traced a message that I found about human decomp odor removal all the way to an IP address central Florida. It was posted to the site on June 22, 2008. There were many alarming posts from this individual ... but this person or this screen name has been active since KC was arrested ... so I doubt it was her. Anyway, it was when I was tracking down this possible connection that I found information about the active ingredients in some pool cleaners being the same as in biocides used for crime scene cleanup. So, maybe just maybe the computer forensics from RM, TL or ?? ... might have information that would tie KC to these chemicals and possibly even the reason for the chloroform levels in the car??? There is a "recipe" online for a homemade cleaner that uses pool chemicals and hydrogen peroxide ... I'm still looking into the chemistry.

    idk ... probably nothing ... but I thought I'd mention it!
    Last edited by one_hooah_wife; 06-22-2009 at 01:41 AM. Reason: fix typos and to add last thoughts
    Clue: Satsuma Edition

    It was the psycho-sicko in the trailer park with a brick-o-block!

    "Admit nothing, deny everything and make counter accusations" ~ "inside" motto of the CIA and the entire Anthony family!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Can't believe she is 4!!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    829
    “On the worst of worst days,
    remember the words spoken
    Trust no one,
    Only yourself.
    With great power,
    comes great consequence.
    What is given,
    Can be taken away.
    Everyone Lies.
    Everyone Dies.”


    Regarding this July 7 photobucket post by KC as mentioned above in LittleBitty's post, it suddenly hit me that the particular phrase, "With great power comes great consequence," might be KC referring to Cindy--all CA's power brings about this great consequence: losing Caylee, and it is KC and ONLY KC who can "take her away" from Cindy. Just thinkin' out loud here.

    Secondly, more to thread topic, I'm not sure the SA has an actual "smoking gun," after all, the one smoking gun they might have gotten ahold of was the pair of pants that CA washed. However, the state has gone to great lengths to acknowledge, test, and discredit the "theories" that have been thrown about in the wind by the A family (pizza, that sort of thing.) The more I read about all of the detailed testing they have done to rule things out simply strengthens the SA case more and more. I just don't know what AL, LKB, and JB can do about it. I love it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,009
    While everyone is contributing amazingly to this thread...I just have to wonder if there is something that points to something more than an accidental death. The DP was put back on the table...even after the medical examiner stated "homicide by undetermined means" which still leaves room for the defense to argue that Caylee died accidentally...if there was any piece of evidence and we are all speculating here...what would it be that would make a jury think that her death was no an accident...not cleaning up after the fact, not disposing of her remains...not even the duct tape...what would be a "smoking gun" that would keep the defense from arguing that Caylee died accidentally and therefore, there is no reason to keep the DP on the table. The DP is on the table for a reason. I threw out a note (subjective and not proven anywhere) from KC to Caylee..what if Caylee tried to fight through the duct tape and her prints or tiny fingernails were on it...there has to be something more...imo...but I could be wrong. I was just using the duct tape and evidence of a "struggle" as one reason...


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBitty35 View Post
    While everyone is contributing amazingly to this thread...I just have to wonder if there is something that points to something more than an accidental death. The DP was put back on the table...even after the medical examiner stated "homicide by undetermined means" which still leaves room for the defense to argue that Caylee died accidentally...
    That has me wondering, too. The medical examiner specifically ruled it a homicide (rather than a potential accident) -- which means that the "silver bullet" evidence of homicide (and as a result, the DP) should be related to what was found in the autopsy, right?

    ???

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by cecybeans View Post
    To help us consolidate and review...

    As we all know, the SA has put the DP back on the table. It was originally a listed option of course, when KC was indicted for Murder One last October, but taken off a month or so later after T Lenamon put together his thirty-some page argument/mercy plea indicating this was likely an accidental death based on a drug overdose of some kind and hinted at PPD issues or some other mitigating mental imbalance that might LWOP or felony manslaughter more appropriate for this case.

    After Caylee’s body was found, an additional search warrant was executed, and other evidence sent to the lab, the results of some of which we have been able to see in doc dumps, others we have not.. After the autopsy, the ME ruled Caylee’s death a homicide on Dec 19, despite the fact there was no clear COV.

    Since then, of course, it has been re-entered in the charges, although some time did elapse before it was brought back (perhaps to allow the Anthony family to have their memorial a couple of months later).

    Quite a few legal eagles have speculated that, without a clear COV (and the possibility that accidental death cannot be overruled despite all the “ugly” behavior or that the duct tape could be post-mortem or the chloroform could be cleaning fluid) the only reason the DP was put back into place was that death penalty juries tend to be more conservative. Even though the voir dire process is more time-consuming and the trial itself more expensive, it has been used recently as a strategy to elevate what might be a felony manslaughter to at least Murder One LWOP if there just isn’t enough evidence to decide between accidental and premeditated death. Conversely, others have assumed that if the DP was back on the table, JB would simply have to fold his circus tent and recuse himself for being underqualified. Now that AL is on the scene, that may be moot.

    Since we have just seen the autopsy results, many of us have changed some of our thinking on various elements of the case.

    Leaving either of the above theories aside, I thought it would be interesting to combine what we now know about old evidence with other recent evidence we have seen – or thoughts on what might still not be released – and see if we could speculate on what type of “smoking gun” or “magic bullet” (please pardon the inappropriate analogy and feel free to send me a reasonable subsititute) we could come up with that would make this DP now a slam-dunk for the State of Florida. I’m hoping we can stick to guesses based on specific potential physical items or forensic evidence if possible, and avoid subjective interpretations, or ones that could be easily shot down by some defense attorney explanation (reasonable or not).

    I’m hoping if we can hammer out what may be waiting for us that is either not yet released or what is already released but incontrovertible, we will all feel more confident that Caylee will eventually get the justice she deserves.
    I am wondering if they tested the pink shirt, shorts, and winnie the pooh blanket for chloroform or residue from it.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Dana Point,CA
    Posts
    52,752
    Quote Originally Posted by shgrbkr View Post
    “On the worst of worst days,
    remember the words spoken
    Trust no one,
    Only yourself.
    With great power,
    comes great consequence.
    What is given,
    Can be taken away.
    Everyone Lies.
    Everyone Dies.”


    Regarding this July 7 photobucket post by KC as mentioned above in LittleBitty's post, it suddenly hit me that the particular phrase, "With great power comes great consequence," might be KC referring to Cindy--all CA's power brings about this great consequence: losing Caylee, and it is KC and ONLY KC who can "take her away" from Cindy. Just thinkin' out loud here.

    Secondly, more to thread topic, I'm not sure the SA has an actual "smoking gun," after all, the one smoking gun they might have gotten ahold of was the pair of pants that CA washed. However, the state has gone to great lengths to acknowledge, test, and discredit the "theories" that have been thrown about in the wind by the A family (pizza, that sort of thing.) The more I read about all of the detailed testing they have done to rule things out simply strengthens the SA case more and more. I just don't know what AL, LKB, and JB can do about it. I love it.
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBitty35 View Post
    On July 7th KC posted on her photobucket, in part:

    “On the worst of worst days,
    remember the words spoken
    Trust no one,
    Only yourself.
    With great power,
    comes great consequence.
    What is given,
    Can be taken away.
    Everyone Lies.
    Everyone Dies.”

    Taking what KC wrote into consideration...is it a possibility that the SA put the DP back on the table (without a definitive cause of death) because KC left a note with Caylee's remains? JMO. Not saying one exists. But wouldn't this be something that would negate any defense theories about an accidental death? After Caylee died, KC was bold enough to get a tatoo "Bella Vita" on July 3rd and on July 7th was bold enough to write what I posted above...what if she left something behind that said, "Caylee, this is why you had to die..."

    TY for your thread...I was waiting for this...hint hint...thank you cecy for posting this and for letting me bully you about it.
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ighlight=diary

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBitty35 View Post
    It to me, is interesting to speculate, what the SA may be holding close to the vest that might indicate a motive/sense of guilt on the part of KC...why the SA may have put the DP back on the table without a definitive cause of death. My thought was a note written to Caylee from KC found with her remains...We all are wondering if there is a smoking gun...what would it be...that would show anything other than Caylee died accidentally...what is it?
    Other then the duct tape. Could Casey's finger prints being on something else. Like the child's book found with the remains. Casey put her in that laundry bag. Casey put that book in there to with other things. I am sure that book would have had some finger prints on the book cover.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    State of confusion
    Posts
    835
    Quote Originally Posted by one_hooah_wife View Post
    I don't know if this will be a smoking gun ... but this is my theory de jour ... pool chemicals taken from house by LE. I looked up the brand and it is considered a biocide ... which is the same classification of chemicals that crime scene clean up experts use. Information on the internet about this is ubiquitous! In fact, if you search terms like "clean decomposition" "human decomposition" "odor of death in car" "crime scene cleanup" etc, at the various "Q&A" sites, you might see a few postings from last year around this very same time that make your blood run cold! I am not saying that the poster was KC ... but who knows ... especially if she was on a friend's computer. A few nights ago, I traced a message that I found about human decomp odor removal all the way to an IP address central Florida. It was posted to the site on June 22, 2008. There were many alarming posts from this individual ... but this person or this screen name has been active since KC was arrested ... so I doubt it was her. Anyway, it was when I was tracking down this possible connection that I found information about the active ingredients in some pool cleaners being the same as in biocides used for crime scene cleanup. So, maybe just maybe the computer forensics from RM, TL or ?? ... might have information that would tie KC to these chemicals and possibly even the reason for the chloroform levels in the car??? There is a "recipe" online for a homemade cleaner that uses pool chemicals and hydrogen peroxide ... I'm still looking into the chemistry.

    idk ... probably nothing ... but I thought I'd mention it!
    Could those searches be done by another member of the A family? Just thinkin'! Very interesting. Great sleuthing, hooah wife.

    So glad to hear that Hooah Hubby Daddy is back home!


    JUSTICE FOR TRAVIS

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