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Thread: Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias - What do you believe?

  1. #426
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    The way this case is dragging on now, even before trial, just imagine the years of appeals if she is convicted, especially if given death penalty. Good grief.
    Just my opinion, of course.

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  3. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    The way this case is dragging on now, even before trial, just imagine the years of appeals if she is convicted, especially if given death penalty. Good grief.
    Hi, cluciano. I agree with you. The trial won't happen until 2011. Of course, Jodi will spend all the pre-trial time in jail; not a bad option, I think, if you know that you are are guilty and think you will be convicted. (The accommodations are a little better and the environment less hostile.)

    The crime was particularly heinous (going out of your way to slash down a "friend with benefits), but I don't think that she will be given the death penalty. There are things running to her advantage: She is an attractive young woman who doesn't fit most people's conception of a brutal killer and it might be difficult for some jurors to totally dismiss her probable defense that she fought off the (perhaps sexual) attack of a much large man.

    I don't think that the Arizona appeal system will lend her any help once she's convicted, but your point about the time stretching and stretching couldn't be more apt.

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  5. #428
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    Hi all! I am new to this site and this is my first post. I found WS after a google search to find if any more information had been released about the Arias trial. I have read every page in this thread and I really can't contribute any more than what has already been said. Of course I agree she is 100% guilty. I believe Jodi killed Travis in a jealous rage, not in self defense.
    After first viewing the 48 hours mystery segment a few thoughts popped in my head:

    The bedding in the dryer was odd. This must have been done before the killing because I feel she would have been too scared to stick around after the killing in fear that someone may walk in. I assumed she offered to put the bedding into the wash telling Travis she was doing this so he would come home to a "clean"bed. This would have served her in removing all traces of her DNA.

    I also thought that Jodi did not plan for a struggle. She assumed that the gun would do the job of killing him with the first shot. She said in the interview that the gun jammed when the "ninjas" put it to her head. I do believe the gun jammed when she was trying to shoot Travis. Jodi may have panicked and ran downstairs to get a knife. It could have been at this time that Travis made his way to the bedroom. The LE said Travis was first attacked with the knife in his bedroom. Then he was dragged back to the shower. I believe if the gun had worked there would have been very little evidence to prove her guilt forensically, as all traces of her DNA on him would have gone down the drain, literally. (I'm sure this is what Jodi was planning on).


    Chanler - You spoke of the shower scene in Psycho. I too, thought of this movie when watching 48 Hours and Jodi was speaking in her "baby" voice. It made me think of the end of the film where Norman Bates (in his mother's voice) says "Let them see what kind of a person I am. I'm not even going to swat that fly. I hope they are watching... they'll see. They'll see and they'll know, and they'll say, "Why, she wouldn't even harm a fly..."
    I believe that Jodi truly thought that people would see this interview and say "how can such a composed relaxed woman commit such a crime?" And then something else came to mind, Perhaps Jodi was thinking that some lawyer out there would see the interview and say "this girl didn't do this, I'm going to take her case pro bono" I couldn't think of any other reason she would give these interviews.

    Ok, so those are my thoughts, so far. I also wanted to share a link I found today:.
    http://www.timespublications.com/aug10-feature1.asp
    It's an article I just found. I thought it was interesting...especially this "Inside the washing machine detectives discovered, along with several of Travis’ religious undergarments, a new digital camera"

    What are religious undergarments??

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  7. #429
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    My 2 cents

    Hi, all,

    I'm new here. Found this site after feeling the strong urge to delve into the case. I hate that I'm late to the game, because some links to stories and interviews no longer work.

    From everything I've read here and seen on some other sites, I have similiar conclusions as everyone else. I believe the biggest keys to Travis' demise were:

    1. Love for women
    2. Inability to sever ties, or at least learn when to vacate a toxic relationship.
    3. His upbringing
    4. Late blooming or inexperience handling sexual relationships.

    Though having a handle on any or all of these areas could not alone prevent the psychotic murderer, it could have helped helped hims protect himself and maybe stopped the relationship from going so far.

    In my view, Travis was naive and tanacious in his approach to women. I don't know when he came to live with his grandmother, but if he'd spent a lot of time with devout believers, it's easy to conclude that he was blissfully sheltered from the various types of women out there. If he was basically meeting people through church or while he was traveling or at work, he couldn't gain experience with regular, everyday women. Being a woman, I can attest to some of the unsavory female characters out there without a chavanistic reprimand.

    anyway, as big as Travis' social circle appeared, I think it was actually a very small fish bowl. I can't reason why else it would take his friends and family 5 days to finally check on him if it wasn't. In addition, the fact that he locked his bedroom door and barred his roommates entry explains how private and guarded he really was about his life.

    While I was being raised, sex was forbidden. It was an awful burden for a woman, and we were taught that it was all a man wanted from us, etc and so on. My sister and I were heavily preached to about it, and I learned that it was a dark, nasty thing. however, I wanted to know what this dark, nasty thing was all about, so I'd lie, hide things, and basically lead a double life to pursue it. I think Travis did the same thing. I was very guarded of my room and extremely worried at what my family members might find at my house. Be it booze or cigarettes, condoms, whatever. I'd hide anything away if they visited. So it's not a hard thing for me to imagine that Travis' family and friends probably had no clue as to who he really was. Not to say that he was a bad person, because I don't believe he was. I'm just saying that when you pressure someone or guilt someone into a certain belief, they'll either conform--or do it behind your back.

    I don't know how long he was with his parents, but while he was raised by them, they unwittingly taught him how to have unhealthy relationships. I'm sure that they had many fights and got crazy themselves, since they were on drugs, and as they stayed together, they taught travis that what we consider unhealthy, codependent relationships should be tolerated. This is why he tolerated and kept going on with his relationship to Jodi. He'd tell others that it was going nowhere, because it was easier to do that than to keep hearing from his friends and family about how he ought to dump her. I'm sure he realized in his heart that they weren't right, but when you can't pull yourself out of toxic relationship, you tend to lie to yourself and anyone else with a voice of reason. You think they don't understand, and you eventually isolate yourself in dealing with the problem.

    He evidentally tried to move on, but her needy pull was too great, and he probably in turn needed her, because co-dependency doesn't have a "co" in front of it for the heck of it. He obviously didn' t know how to make a clean break, or he didn't want to feel the sense of loss, or he stupidly thought they could actually rewind to a friendship. This is where his experience with sexual relationships, a variety of female personalities, and his inability to break ties comes into play.

    I don't believe that Jodi was his first, but even if she wasn't, that doesn't mean that he was experienced with women. He didn't know, but he should have known, that he couldn't be taking all these photos with various women and have all these various women commenting to him on public websites. He should have known, but didn't, that hopping around dating a bunch of women at once would cause him grief, especially if he was sleeping with one or more of them. With experience, he could have been able to gauge who could be friends with benefits and who was just too crazy involved to take it. He might have seen it, but felt beholden to Jodi because he couldn't isolate himself from the guilt of a break up, or he couldn't stand the thought of the unknown--her out of his life and his sight.

    Again, I'm not blaming him, because none of this is cause for murder.Whether we have certain inherent rights as humans, we all know that in the real world, exercising those rights might get you hurt. So he had a right to do the things above that I say he should have known better than to do, but he had to do it with sane people.

    When he realized that Jodi wasn't for him, he should have done what he'd told his family that he'd done by getting rid of her, but he didn't. Phone calls, facebook messages, and sleeping with her on the day of the murder prove that. Accepting her and readily giving her attention even after his tires were slashed twice shows some type of toxcity on Travis' part as well. It also caused her to have to up the anty for the next hurtful she'd do to him. violence has diminishing returns, so if he accepted her back after doing that, she felt justified, but also she had to escalate the next thing she did to get his attention.

    Maybe he couldn't let go because she was his first or because she was one of his firsts that had actually rocked his world.

    I don' t know. I'm sleepy nd not sure I'm making my points, but I'm sure breaking ties with his parents probably had a profound affect on him, and so breaking ties with anyone might have been overwhelming for him.

    I don't know, but the way he related to Jodi was just strange and I'm trying to get a hold of this double life he led in that respect.

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  9. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justine8787 View Post
    Hi all! I am new to this site and this is my first post. I found WS after a google search to find if any more information had been released about the Arias trial. I have read every page in this thread and I really can't contribute any more than what has already been said. Of course I agree she is 100% guilty. I believe Jodi killed Travis in a jealous rage, not in self defense.
    After first viewing the 48 hours mystery segment a few thoughts popped in my head:

    The bedding in the dryer was odd. This must have been done before the killing because I feel she would have been too scared to stick around after the killing in fear that someone may walk in. I assumed she offered to put the bedding into the wash telling Travis she was doing this so he would come home to a "clean"bed. This would have served her in removing all traces of her DNA.

    I also thought that Jodi did not plan for a struggle. She assumed that the gun would do the job of killing him with the first shot. She said in the interview that the gun jammed when the "ninjas" put it to her head. I do believe the gun jammed when she was trying to shoot Travis. Jodi may have panicked and ran downstairs to get a knife. It could have been at this time that Travis made his way to the bedroom. The LE said Travis was first attacked with the knife in his bedroom. Then he was dragged back to the shower. I believe if the gun had worked there would have been very little evidence to prove her guilt forensically, as all traces of her DNA on him would have gone down the drain, literally. (I'm sure this is what Jodi was planning on).


    Chanler - You spoke of the shower scene in Psycho. I too, thought of this movie when watching 48 Hours and Jodi was speaking in her "baby" voice. It made me think of the end of the film where Norman Bates (in his mother's voice) says "Let them see what kind of a person I am. I'm not even going to swat that fly. I hope they are watching... they'll see. They'll see and they'll know, and they'll say, "Why, she wouldn't even harm a fly..."
    I believe that Jodi truly thought that people would see this interview and say "how can such a composed relaxed woman commit such a crime?" And then something else came to mind, Perhaps Jodi was thinking that some lawyer out there would see the interview and say "this girl didn't do this, I'm going to take her case pro bono" I couldn't think of any other reason she would give these interviews.

    Ok, so those are my thoughts, so far. I also wanted to share a link I found today:.
    http://www.timespublications.com/aug10-feature1.asp
    It's an article I just found. I thought it was interesting...especially this "Inside the washing machine detectives discovered, along with several of Travis’ religious undergarments, a new digital camera"

    What are religious undergarments??
    Hi, Justine, and welcome! You bring up some provocative points. I especially like your comparison of "Norman Bates'" final words in Psycho and Jodi in the interview.

    I agree that Jodi did not anticipate a struggle. I think that her killing was planned (she apparently brought a loaded gun into the house), rather than the product of a momentary rage. She apparently views herself as grounded and rational; to me, the murder is more like an execution gone wrong than an outburst killing. That Travis wasn't killed by a gunshot to the head must have panicked her completely. Twenty-seven stab wounds and her vivid memory of him helpless yet alive on the floor provide some indications of how panicked she was.

    My take on her interviews, not much different from yours. is that at first she was still confident that despite his friends' deep suspicions, there was no compelling evidence against her. When the impressive forensics literally materialized, she improvised a back-up story. Of course, given her situation, the interviews have locked her into numerous lies and contradictions.

    The digital camera at least was placed in the washer after the attack. It contains vestiges of pictures taken at the bloody scene.

    To answer your question, Travis' "religious undergarments" are the bulky underwear that some devout Mormons wear. Travis lived, worked, and breathed LDS principles.

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  14. #433
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    Thank you for the welcome and for answering my question.
    You are certainly right about the camera being placed in the washer after the murder, I had just assumed that the bedding in the dryer proved premeditation.
    Another point that struck me that I had forgot to
    mention was that Jodi said her phone ran out of power on her way to Travis' house yet it worked just fine to call him after the murder when she was on her way to Utah. How did the phone miraculously start working again? If she had a car charger the phone would not have died in the first place. IMO she didn't want that phone bouncing around cell towers near his house, again, proving premeditation.
    One more thing-I said to myself "if someone slashed me tires TWICE and stole my
    journals I would certainly not invite then over to spend the night..." So this got me thinking of what she could have said to him to get him to invite her over? I thought, just possibly she may have said, yes, I took your journals and I'm going to bring them back to return them to you. This would have given her a way in to kill him because there would be no way he would say no. -just thinking on paper...

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  16. #434
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    Thanks for the welcome.

    I believe that her asking to return his journals is a plausible way to get him to let her come over to the house, but I seriously think that he must have wanted to see her and sleep with her or else that "Hand me my journals" talk would have ended at the door. If he was that worried about her behavior, he could have said "as a matter of fact, just put them outside the door and leave. Better yet, mail them!" LOL Do the police have the journals? I don't know. Did she hand the journals over or were they back at his house?

    I agree about the cell phone--unless she didn't have a car charger, only a charger for the house. She could have charged it while in Travis' house if she didn't have a car charger. (which could have been another excuse for getting inside the house.) however, with all the driving she did, it'd be dumb not to have a car charger. It's possible that she didn't pack it, though. It's possible, but not probable. I really think your idea is probably right, but just giving a plausible excuse for her not to have it, because my phone only came with a house charger and I never bought the car charger, and I'd be up crap creek if a jury used that against me.

    I don't know when the tire slashings happened, but we see him flirting with her on myspace a month before his death? Is that right?

    Depending on what kind of person Travis really was (and that's why i was trying to talk about his personality above) he might have pushed aside the bad things she did because he was co-dependent. Sometimes people just forgive stupid things because they're stuck on the person who might be hurting them. They might hate themselves for being codependent, but they can't break the cycle.

    If Travis was like that, he probably forgave her for the tire slashing or at least seperated himself from that act and continued to talk to her. I can think of no other answer since he let her be at his house possibly the night before and all day the next day.

    I personally don't believe that Travis was a devout LDS. I believe that he tried to be and tried to give off that appearance. We've all seen the biggest relgious people fall from grace, so I plan to pretty much ignore the religious aspect of it, because he wouldn't have slept with her or kept sleeping with her if he really lived and breathed the principles.
    Last edited by wasnt_me; 08-21-2010 at 03:09 AM.

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  18. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justine8787 View Post
    Thank you for the welcome and for answering my question.
    You are certainly right about the camera being placed in the washer after the murder, I had just assumed that the bedding in the dryer proved premeditation.
    Another point that struck me that I had forgot to
    mention was that Jodi said her phone ran out of power on her way to Travis' house yet it worked just fine to call him after the murder when she was on her way to Utah. How did the phone miraculously start working again? If she had a car charger the phone would not have died in the first place. IMO she didn't want that phone bouncing around cell towers near his house, again, proving premeditation.
    One more thing-I said to myself "if someone slashed me tires TWICE and stole my
    journals I would certainly not invite then over to spend the night..." So this got me thinking of what she could have said to him to get him to invite her over? I thought, just possibly she may have said, yes, I took your journals and I'm going to bring them back to return them to you. This would have given her a way in to kill him because there would be no way he would say no. -just thinking on paper...
    Hi, Justine, another interesting note. I think that you're right about the phone.

    A question: Where did you read that she stole his journals? I definitely remember the slashed tires, but I don't remember the journals. For a devout Mormon, journal-keeping can be a very significant pursuit.

    I think that Travis couldn't seem to totally break off with Jodi, even when he complained about her vehemently to his friends. (Wasn'tMe's point about him flirting with online just one month before his death proves that.) Apparently, he was a virgin when they first had sex, and it wouldn't surprise me if that continued to be the key to their relationship from his perspective.
    Last edited by Chanler; 08-21-2010 at 10:01 PM.

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  20. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasnt_me View Post
    I personally don't believe that Travis was a devout LDS. I believe that he tried to be and tried to give off that appearance. We've all seen the biggest relgious people fall from grace, so I plan to pretty much ignore the religious aspect of it, because he wouldn't have slept with her or kept sleeping with her if he really lived and breathed the principles.
    Thanks for your note. I think that Travis was devout. In fact, in ways I think that quality holds the key to his murder. From the testimony of his closest friends, the great majority of whom were LDS, he was rigorous about the practices, doctrines, tithing, and readings of the religion. He would view his sexual relationship with Jodi as a lapse, a phase that he would grow out of when he found a good virgin Mormon wife.

    Devout people have lapses. Even Mother Teresa's most recently published journals show her losing core beliefs.

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    Chanler- I believe I read about the journals on the tribute Facebook page. I think his brother Steven posted about it. When I have more time I will search for the post and add the link.
    When I read in the court minutes that Jodi was also being charged with theft I assumed it was the journals they were referring to. I don't recall reading about anything else that she stole. Perhaps when she read the journals and learned what Travis truely thought of her was the time she started plotting murder. (although I think that Travis going to Cancun with another woman couldn't have made her too happy either)

    Wasntme- Yes I agree with all your thoughts about the Travis / Jodi codependent relationship. And that's very true that he could have said mail the journals, but I think Jodi could have said I want to see you in person to talk things out etc... so she would have an "in". Again, this is all just spectulation.
    I just find it really hard to believe that he said "oh you are going to Utah? You can always swing by Arizona" as she stated in the 48 hrs mystery episode. I know they had broken it off many times but supposedly the week before the murder was their most heated fight of their relationship. When I'm not on my iPod I'm going to search for that post about the journals and the fight they had.
    Also, as far as I know the journals have not been found. I guess we will see when the trial starts, if it ever starts!

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    Wasn't me- I forgot to answer your question about the tires. I am going to have to go back and watch the 48 hours interview for that answer.

    Chanler- I just remembered, the link I posted (in my first post above) has the info about
    the journals. It wasn't Travis' brother who spoke of the theft, it was his friend Taylor Searle (who appeared in the 48 hours interview). It's a good article, it has more info than any of the others I have seen.

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  26. #439
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    Thanks!

    I think we'll amicably disagree about the devout thing and the virgin thing. I just seriously believe he was living a double life. In a lot of murder cases I read, it always seems that the family has a flowerly image of the victim and is usually the last to accept that it wasn't true. I just found it strange, too, on the 48 hours interview, his loved one said, "I could see him being typical Travis, and saying we can do this, but you're not my girlfriend and I'm not taking you to Cancun." (Paraphrased.) It's odd to my that he refers to Travis telling her girl she can come over for sex, but she's not his girlfriend as "typical Travis." JMO. Maybe I didn't hear that right, but I think I did.

    Justine8787--I watched the 48 hours thing again with my boyfriend who hadn't seen it. They said the tire slashing happened a couple months before the murder. They were also saying that he was fearful of Jodi at the end and his friend remembers Travis telling him how Travis had told Jodi that he never wanted to see her again. If this were true, then why the myspace note? Why does he let her into his house at 430am? And why was he having sex with her and taking pictures? this is why i say I don't believe his family really knew the truth about this whole thing, the truth about his beliefs, or his sex life. I sympathize with them. I really do and I hope that I don't offend them if they read this. I do believe that Travis was a good man. He just had some secrets. But it's JMO. I could be wrong.

    I heard Jodi say something that I didn't notice the first time. She said that Travis had planned to go visit her in Ureka at the end of May. It was about 20 minutes into the show. She said that he was supposed to visit her at the end of May. They were going to go to Crater lake.

    This is terribly significant, if it's true, because the cancun trip was the first and/or second week in June. So I see the scenerio as he reneged on that visit and told her that it was because of the Cancun trip. THEN he had to tell her that she couldn't go on the trip. Since it was a company trip, I'm sure it was easy for her to find out that he could get two tickets, so he had to break it to her that he was taking another girl.

    After all the traveling they did together, etc, I can imagine it blowing her mind that he not only canceled the trip to see her, but he did it to go to Cancun with another woman.

    And, no, it makes no sense for her to go 17 hours from Ureka to Mesa, when she had almost a straight shot to get to Utah.
    Last edited by wasnt_me; 08-22-2010 at 03:42 AM.

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    Time Line

    Here's a rough timeline I put together for this. Feel to add or correct.

    February 2007--supposedly a couple
    April 23, 2007--myspace message about her beauty from Travis
    July 2007(?) -- Break up allegedly a 5 month relationship
    July 9, 2007-- another hotness message from Travis on myspace

    July--August 2007??--Jodi moves to AZ (myspace friends wish her luck in AZ on August 2nd)

    March 2008(?)—Tires slashed twice
    April 2008—Jodi moved away from AZ not sure of an exact date
    May 1, 2008—myspace message from Travis, discussing her hotness
    End of May (?)—Travis cancels end of May trip to see Jodi in Yreka. (according to Jodi)

    June 1-10, 2008 Cancun trip for PPL. Travis plans to arrive June 10. Doubt that’s the last day of the trip, but they ever say how long the trip was. (Jodi claims to have known about the trip a year in advance and claimed to have known she wasn’t going with Travis. Strangely enough, a year earlier would be the time of the breakup, right?)

    First week of June—Marie Hall cannot get in touch with Travis. Do not know if this is literally referring to June 1st, since his murder occurred on a Monday, June 4th.
    June 2, 2008 Jodi sets out for L.A. (10hr drive) and then Utah to visit friends.
    June 3, 2008—8:30pm call between Jodi and Travis. (according to the police report, she said this call happened as she was on the way from Yreka to a conference in Salt Lake City, 12hour drive)
    June 4, 2008—4:30am Jodi claims that she arrived at his house and he let her in.
    12:13pm—last call made to Travis made by who knows
    1:40pm—sex pictures
    4:19pm sent an email
    5:22pm—5:30pm shower photos
    Unstated time—death photos
    7pm—misses conference call
    June 5, 2008—Jodi claims to have arrived in SLC late morning for last day of conference (mesa to SLC 11 1/2 hr drive would love to see the milege on her car)
    June 9, 2008 10:20pm Travis found dead.
    Last edited by wasnt_me; 08-22-2010 at 05:05 AM.

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  30. #441
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    I've borrowed Wasn'tMe's brilliant timeline and added a few snippets (from the article Justine linked) in brackets:

    February 2007--supposedly a couple
    April 23, 2007--myspace message about her beauty from Travis
    July 2007(?) -- Break up allegedly a 5 month relationship
    July 9, 2007-- another hotness message from Travis on myspace

    July--August 2007??--Jodi moves to AZ (myspace friends wish her luck in AZ on August 2nd)

    [late 2007, Travis began dating another girl seriously. Late one night in December of that year while at his new girlfriend’s house, Travis discovered his tires had been slashed. He replaced the tires only to have them slashed again on the following night. Shortly after those incidents, Travis’ new girlfriend received a hostile email from a “John Doe.” The email, which was wrought with heavy religious undertones, refereed to her relationship with Travis.

    It read in part: “If you let him stay in your bed one more time or even sleep under the same roof as him, you will be giving the appearance of evil... You are a daughter of God, and you have been a shameful example. Be thou clean, sin no more.”

    The girl later told police she believed the email had been sent by Jodi.

    There were several other similar incidents leading up to about a week prior to his death, when Travis caught Jodi hacking into his Facebook account, according to the police report. By this point, Travis had had enough and told her he wanted her out of his life.]

    March 2008(?)—Tires slashed twice [December 2007 date above]
    April 2008—Jodi moved away from AZ not sure of an exact date
    May 1, 2008—myspace message from Travis, discussing her hotness
    End of May (?)—Travis cancels end of May trip to see Jodi in Yreka. (according to Jodi)

    June 1-10, 2008 Cancun trip for PPL. Travis plans to arrive June 10. Doubt that’s the last day of the trip, but they ever say how long the trip was. (Jodi claims to have known about the trip a year in advance and claimed to have known she wasn’t going with Travis. Strangely enough, a year earlier would be the time of the breakup, right?)

    First week of June—Marie Hall cannot get in touch with Travis. Do not know if this is literally referring to June 1st, since his murder occurred on a Monday, June 4th.
    June 2, 2008 Jodi sets out for L.A. (10hr drive) and then Utah to visit friends.
    June 3, 2008—8:30pm call between Jodi and Travis. (according to the police report, she said this call happened as she was on the way from Yreka to a conference in Salt Lake City, 12hour drive)
    June 4, 2008—4:30am Jodi claims that she arrived at his house and he let her in.
    12:13pm—last call made to Travis made by who knows
    1:40pm—sex pictures
    4:19pm sent an email
    5:22pm—5:30pm shower photos
    Unstated time—death photos
    7pm—misses conference call
    June 5, 2008—Jodi claims to have arrived in SLC late morning for last day of conference (mesa to SLC 11 1/2 hr drive would love to see the milege on her car)
    June 9, 2008 10:20pm Travis found dead.

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  32. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasnt_me View Post
    Thanks!

    I think we'll amicably disagree about the devout thing and the virgin thing. I just seriously believe he was living a double life. In a lot of murder cases I read, it always seems that the family has a flowerly image of the victim and is usually the last to accept that it wasn't true. I just found it strange, too, on the 48 hours interview, his loved one said, "I could see him being typical Travis, and saying we can do this, but you're not my girlfriend and I'm not taking you to Cancun." (Paraphrased.) It's odd to my that he refers to Travis telling her girl she can come over for sex, but she's not his girlfriend as "typical Travis." JMO. Maybe I didn't hear that right, but I think I did.

    Justine8787--I watched the 48 hours thing again with my boyfriend who hadn't seen it. They said the tire slashing happened a couple months before the murder. They were also saying that he was fearful of Jodi at the end and his friend remembers Travis telling him how Travis had told Jodi that he never wanted to see her again. If this were true, then why the myspace note? Why does he let her into his house at 430am? And why was he having sex with her and taking pictures? this is why i say I don't believe his family really knew the truth about this whole thing, the truth about his beliefs, or his sex life. I sympathize with them. I really do and I hope that I don't offend them if they read this. I do believe that Travis was a good man. He just had some secrets. But it's JMO. I could be wrong.

    I heard Jodi say something that I didn't notice the first time. She said that Travis had planned to go visit her in Ureka at the end of May. It was about 20 minutes into the show. She said that he was supposed to visit her at the end of May. They were going to go to Crater lake.

    This is terribly significant, if it's true, because the cancun trip was the first and/or second week in June. So I see the scenerio as he reneged on that visit and told her that it was because of the Cancun trip. THEN he had to tell her that she couldn't go on the trip. Since it was a company trip, I'm sure it was easy for her to find out that he could get two tickets, so he had to break it to her that he was taking another girl.

    After all the traveling they did together, etc, I can imagine it blowing her mind that he not only canceled the trip to see her, but he did it to go to Cancun with another woman.

    And, no, it makes no sense for her to go 17 hours from Ureka to Mesa, when she had almost a straight shot to get to Utah.
    Hi, Wasn'tMe. Travis was essentially an orphan; both his parents were addicted to drugs and his father was mostly absent. What emotional sustenance he received was from his grandparents. He credited his Mormon conversion with essentially transforming him and saving his life.

    His life was less double than just messy. Like many young men, his relationships (especially if they weren't immediately on the scene) were vulnerable. For a virgin, as he apparently was, sex can be a most powerful persuader. (I have known fundamentalists who married early and unwisely because of their sexual drive, but no one would think of them as not being devout.)

    I've never had a stalker, not been one; and, by comparison to some of my friends, my relationships have been unusually sane. That said, I cannot imagine refusing to open my door at 4:30 in the morning to an ex-girlfriend. Travis and Jodi had wild fluctuations in their volatile, dysfunctional relationship, but they were clearly drawn together. In fact, I've always thought that Jodi's obsession with the Law of Attraction convinced her that, all other things notwithstanding, they were destined to be forever linked.
    Last edited by Chanler; 08-22-2010 at 02:28 PM.

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  34. #443
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    Thanks, Chanler.

    As I said we have to agree to disagree. Travis knew what she wanted to go over there at 430am for. I haven't had stalkers, but I've had "ex-men friends" who I had to tell from my window to get off my property. I had to tell men to stop calling me and I had to stop answering the phone for them--and their crazy girlfriends.

    There really is no reason to let an ex-girlfriend in the house at 430am if you have insisted that you don't want her and you told all your friends you don't want her, and your friends say you fear her because she's crazy. Well, if she's hurt or there's some emergency, that's all I can see as a reason. He let her in because he wanted her there. She stayed there for hours because he wanted her to. It's that simple.

    It's definitely a double life if you tell your friends you hate this girl but you're still telling her how beautiful she is on her myspace page. It's a double life to be "devout" but be sleeping with a girl you know good and well you don't want to marry. Travis had about a year after the breakup to correct himself on that according to his beliefs, but he did not. You can have a weak moment, but a weak year and a half?

    We might have different interpretations of devout. But when I hear that someone eats and breathes their religion, then that means ALL of it, not just part of it. I can accept that he was a fallible human. We all are. but I can't see sex being powerful enough to topple a lifetime commitment to virginity, seriously. If it was all that, he could have gotten married before doing it, as you said people you know did.

    I've seen "devout" people turn out be child molesters or unfaithful spouses. And the loved ones almost always say that the person was devout and would never do that in a million years. Hell, Jodi's loved ones might be saying the same thing. She was devout and would never stab somebody 27 times and slit their throat and shoot them in the mouth. But....

    I didn't understand that he was an orphan. I understood that his parents stayed together long enough to have 7 kids, and I understand that the kids lived alone with their mother for a while after the divorce. I just don't know when the divorce was or when he moved with his grandmother. But from what I read, I didn't glean that he had no parental supervision whatsoever until his grandmother stepped in. to me, an orphan means there are no parents or family around whatsoever.

    It doesn't really matter, because those things are not the heart of the case. The defense will pick Travis apart and they will bring these inconsistencies up at trial, so we might as well consider them, because the defense team will be much worse on him. I don't like to put victims on trial, and his character isn't at the heart of the case, because no matter WHAT he did (short of trying to kill her or someone else), she shouldn't have shot him or stabbed him.

    I understand you've been following the case, and I respect your theories about it, but mine are just different. The jurors will also bring many different experiences and perspectives when deciding. though they will all hopefully find her guilty, I doubt they will all 12 find him to be a hapless virgin led astray by her.
    Last edited by wasnt_me; 08-22-2010 at 05:51 PM.

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    Great posts Wasn't me & Chanler! I love the timeline. You have both made many points to think about.

    When first watching 48 hrs until now I have always thought that Jodi converted to LDS because of Travis and her attraction to him, not the religion. I hate to say it but if a "not so attractive man" handed her the book of Mormon do you think she would have been so interested in it? I don't.
    I had a friend who went to a wedding in Utah and met a guy who she liked very much. He would not go out with her until she converted to the Mormon religion. She read the Book of Mormon, and decided it was her path. SHe went back to Utah and was baptized by this guy a few months later. Everything was great until they broke up 4 months later. Suddenly her religion wasn't so important, it faded away real fast.
    I had this thought about Jodi while watching the 48 hours segment. She claims that her religion is the most important thing to her and writes about religion all over hers and her friends myspaces but I think it's just one more mask for her to wear. And she is a Mormon and a bartender? Isn't that kind of an oxymoron?
    Anyone else have any ideas on this?

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  38. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justine8787 View Post
    Great posts Wasn't me & Chanler! I love the timeline. You have both made many points to think about.

    When first watching 48 hrs until now I have always thought that Jodi converted to LDS because of Travis and her attraction to him, not the religion. I hate to say it but if a "not so attractive man" handed her the book of Mormon do you think she would have been so interested in it? I don't.
    I had a friend who went to a wedding in Utah and met a guy who she liked very much. He would not go out with her until she converted to the Mormon religion. She read the Book of Mormon, and decided it was her path. SHe went back to Utah and was baptized by this guy a few months later. Everything was great until they broke up 4 months later. Suddenly her religion wasn't so important, it faded away real fast.
    I had this thought about Jodi while watching the 48 hours segment. She claims that her religion is the most important thing to her and writes about religion all over hers and her friends myspaces but I think it's just one more mask for her to wear. And she is a Mormon and a bartender? Isn't that kind of an oxymoron?
    Anyone else have any ideas on this?
    Hi, Justine; as usual, an interesting post. I think that you're right: Jodi's conversion was part of her full immersion in Travis. (Quite literally, by the way: I think he helped with her LDS baptism.) I think that his charismatic blend of spirituality and can-do capitalism appealed to her; in fact, she seemed to be at least as widely read as him in the self-activated self improvement that he espoused. Also, I think that her New Age beliefs would make her more open to elements of Mormonism that some adult Christians might greet with skepticism. But, like other New Age people, Jodi picked and plundered from philosophies and religion and added parts of them to her own meaning system; she probably wasn't proud of being a bartender, but she wasn't guilt-ridden enough to give up what was probably a profitable livelihood for a moderately attractive woman.
    Last edited by Chanler; 08-30-2010 at 07:51 PM. Reason: clarity

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  40. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasnt_me View Post
    Thanks, Chanler.

    As I said we have to agree to disagree. Travis knew what she wanted to go over there at 430am for. I haven't had stalkers, but I've had "ex-men friends" who I had to tell from my window to get off my property. I had to tell men to stop calling me and I had to stop answering the phone for them--and their crazy girlfriends.

    There really is no reason to let an ex-girlfriend in the house at 430am if you have insisted that you don't want her and you told all your friends you don't want her, and your friends say you fear her because she's crazy. Well, if she's hurt or there's some emergency, that's all I can see as a reason. He let her in because he wanted her there. She stayed there for hours because he wanted her to. It's that simple.

    It's definitely a double life if you tell your friends you hate this girl but you're still telling her how beautiful she is on her myspace page. It's a double life to be "devout" but be sleeping with a girl you know good and well you don't want to marry. Travis had about a year after the breakup to correct himself on that according to his beliefs, but he did not. You can have a weak moment, but a weak year and a half?

    We might have different interpretations of devout. But when I hear that someone eats and breathes their religion, then that means ALL of it, not just part of it. I can accept that he was a fallible human. We all are. but I can't see sex being powerful enough to topple a lifetime commitment to virginity, seriously. If it was all that, he could have gotten married before doing it, as you said people you know did.

    I've seen "devout" people turn out be child molesters or unfaithful spouses. And the loved ones almost always say that the person was devout and would never do that in a million years. Hell, Jodi's loved ones might be saying the same thing. She was devout and would never stab somebody 27 times and slit their throat and shoot them in the mouth. But....

    I didn't understand that he was an orphan. I understood that his parents stayed together long enough to have 7 kids, and I understand that the kids lived alone with their mother for a while after the divorce. I just don't know when the divorce was or when he moved with his grandmother. But from what I read, I didn't glean that he had no parental supervision whatsoever until his grandmother stepped in. to me, an orphan means there are no parents or family around whatsoever.

    It doesn't really matter, because those things are not the heart of the case. The defense will pick Travis apart and they will bring these inconsistencies up at trial, so we might as well consider them, because the defense team will be much worse on him. I don't like to put victims on trial, and his character isn't at the heart of the case, because no matter WHAT he did (short of trying to kill her or someone else), she shouldn't have shot him or stabbed him.

    I understand you've been following the case, and I respect your theories about it, but mine are just different. The jurors will also bring many different experiences and perspectives when deciding. though they will all hopefully find her guilty, I doubt they will all 12 find him to be a hapless virgin led astray by her.
    Hi, Wasn'tMe. Obviously, you're not just bringing these things up because the defense will bring them up. The defense will not question whether or not Travis was a devout Mormon, a question that nobody who actually knew him seems to have any difficulty answering in the affirmative. (I haven't read that even one of Jodi's family or friends described her as devout.) And as for some virginity test, it really doesn't pass too much muster: Even in the nineties, almost sixty percent of Mormon women had premarital sex and some LDS people believe that the number now is even higher and probably higher among men. Another survey indicated that not even a majority of Mormons think that premarital sex or extramarital sex is always wrong.

    Travis did not leave a double life. Tiger Woods led a double life; the Russian spies caught this summer led a double life, but Travis did not. He did not keep his stormy relationship a secret. At least some of his friends knew that she sometimes stayed at the house. That he voiced negative things about her to people who disliked her is understandable and predictable. That he remained in contact with her on publicly accessible website indicates that this was no secret. Whether he told his male friends about their explicit sexual acts or their photographing each other nude we simply don't know. I don't know about you or other posters here, but I have never shared such intimate details with my friends either. Perhaps by your standards, I lead a double life.

    Travis lived with his meth addict mother and his three sisters. Both parents were physically abusive. As for the parental supervision you mention, it must have been decisively singular: "I remember my mother emptying a revolver on the car my father was driving and my father subsequently taking an axe to my mother’s belongings and destroying them." Travis was close with his sisters and they have never disputed his account.

    As for jurors having to believe that Travis was a hapless, seduced virgin to convict Jodi, it simply won't come into play. Their complicated, tumultous relationship doesn't exonerate her; it makes her motive as a more culpable vengeful killer more believable. The defense case will be relatively simple: They will contend that Jodi killed Travis in an attempt to defend herself from an attack initiated by him in or near the bathroom. The attack will be presented as either sexual or an effort by him to retrieve the camera and its degrading pictures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanler View Post
    Hi, Justine; as usual, an interesting post. I think that you're right: Jodi's conversion was part of her full immersion in Travis. (Quite literally, by the way: I think he helped with her LDS baptism.) I think that his charismatic blend of spirituality and can-do capitalism appealed to her; in fact, she seemed to be at least as widely read as him in the self-activated self improvement that he espoused. Also, I think that her New Age beliefs would make her more open to elements of Mormonism that some adult Christians might greet with skepticism. But, like other New Age people, Jodi picked and plundered from philosophies and religion and added parts of them to her own meaning system; she probably wasn't proud of being a bartender, but she wasn't guilt-ridden enough to give up what was probably a profitable livelihood for a moderately attractive woman.
    Hi, Chanler! Yes, you must be right about the money. That has to be why she stayed a bartender. Do you have any idea what her role at PPL was? I find it hard to believe that if she only sold legal services the position would be lucrative enough to support herself. I'm assuming her photography business didn't do much either judging by the J Fine Art Myspace (all the photos were of family and friends).
    I don't know anything about PPL. Maybe it's popular on the west coast. I had never heard of it before hearing about this case. I went to the website and the company kind of seems like a scheme to me.

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  44. #448
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    Hi all just checking in to see if there is anything new ... I think the links below have been posted upstream, but wanted to bring them forward.


    http://www.facebook.com/search/?flt=1&q=travis+alexander&o=65#!/group.php?gid=33785181856&v=wall&ref=search

    and-the other side of the table ...

    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=109886309056958&ref=search#!/group.php?gid=109886309056958&v=wall&ref=search

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  46. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanler View Post
    Hi, Wasn'tMe. Obviously, you're not just bringing these things up because the defense will bring them up...
    I'd like to start by saying that nothing is obvious except that these are all your opinions as my opinions are mine. Again, I will amicably disagree, using all the opinions that I have stated above. I do have to amicably ask that you not tell me that I didn't bring up the points for the reason that I said I did though, because I don't think we can have a friendly debate if you start telling me that I'm lying about my motives. I don't think I said I brought them up because the defense will. I think I said we might as well consider them, because the defense would pick him apart in trial.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chanler View Post
    don't know about you or other posters here, but I have never shared such intimate details with my friends either. Perhaps by your standards, I lead a double life....
    I hope that you can accept that I don't share your opinion and I hope that you don't make generalized assumptions about my or anyone else's "standards" because unless you are in that person's brain, you cannot know what they really are or what they really think. Unless you were in Travis' brain, you cannot know what he really was or what he really thought. You can only conjecture, which is what I'm doing, just like you are doing. this is why I can say that by my "standards," I have no idea what kind of life you lead. If you died and I evaluated your case, who knows what opinion I'd form, but I'll tell you right now I'm offended to even be told that I have "standards" for people, because i'm no better than anyone else. I guess I do have a expectation for myself and others, though, and that is to allow people to have their own opinions without personally attacking them or trying to force them to conform to my thoughts or opinions.

    I just want to leave it as you believe what you believe about Travis, and I will believe what I believe--even if I'm the only person on the planet who believes it.
    Last edited by wasnt_me; 09-02-2010 at 03:06 AM.

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    CAPITAL CASE MANAGEMENT CONFERENCE

    8:59 a.m. This is the time set for Capital Case Management Conference.

    State's Attorney: Juan Martinez
    Defendant's Attorney: Kirk Nurmi (1st chair)
    Defendant’s Attorney: Victoria Washington (2nd chair)
    Defendant: Present
    Court Reporter: Scott Kindle

    Discussion is held re: disclosure of victim’s e-mail accounts.

    Based on the discussions held, the Court notes that the victim’s e-mail account,
    prsnlpower@yahoo.com, has been fully disclosed; the victim’s e-mail account,
    Travis.Alexander@gmail.com, additional disclosure needs to be completed; and the victim’s email
    account, Wrestlingwindmill@hotmail.com, the State has been unable to locate any e-mail(s)
    from this account. Further, the parties have confirmed the identifying information related to the
    Yahoo account related to the victim’s letters that are the subject of current litigation
    With respect to the victim’s Myspace, Facebook, Photobucket and LDS linkup accounts,
    the detective from the arresting agency will submit the appropriate search warrant for the
    account, if it exists.

    Therefore,

    IT IS ORDERED that the State shall have an additional 30 days to finalize the abovementioned
    discovery and file a status report identifying all e-mail accounts and the status of
    compliance with disclosure.

    Defense counsel makes an oral request to have the Defense’s handwriting expert inspect
    the victim’s handwritten journals.

    Discussion is held.

    IT IS ORDERED granting the Defendant’s oral request and the State shall make the
    victim’s handwritten journals available for the Defendant’s handwriting expert to inspect.

    Discussion is held re: current trial date.

    Based on the discussions held, the Court notes that the State may have a conflict with the
    current trial date, but the Court is affirming the current trial date of August 2, 2011 at this time.

    IT IS ORDERED setting the next Capital Case Management Conference on October 26,
    2010 at 8:30 a.m. in this division.

    IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that no less than two working days before each Case
    Management Conference, the parties shall submit a Joint Case Management Report. This report
    will inform the court of:

    1. The specific progress made since the last Case Management Conference in
    completing activities previously established by the court and the parties;
    2. Specific case preparation to be completed before the next Case Management
    Conference;
    3. Witnesses who have been interviewed in the preceding month;
    4. Witnesses who will be interviewed in the upcoming month;
    5. Pending issues to be resolved;
    6. Motion(s) to be file

    IT IS FURTHER ORDERED affirming prior custody orders.

    LAST DAY REMAINS: 09/02/2011

    9:20 a.m. Matter concludes.

    http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov...0/m4391050.pdf

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