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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knox View Post
    BBM ... Could you expound on why you feel this would be "natural"?

    The Morman religion has been mentioned in this case. In stating you think she and Travis were "inextricably linked" are you referring to a tennant of the Morman faith? Although I believe that would mean they would have to be married in the temple, she may have twisted that around in her mind to suit her needs. Good points you made in your post, thanks Chanler.

    I think Gaia227 has a good point, she had no self definition.
    Hi, Knox, thanks for your laser-sharp note and your kind words. I think that Jodi Arias came late to Mormonism and she was converted through the suggestion of the lover she killed, so I think that it was always probably connected in her mind with him and their relationship.

    Like many religious people influenced by new age thought, she intertwined its belief system with those of others. As you note, the Mormon concept of celestial marriage involves a formal temple event, certainly not a bloody homicide, but I think that it's quite possible that, as you put it so well, "she may have twisted that around in her mind to suit her needs." (Such extreme twisting is not unique in Mormon history. Since the mid-19th century, small clusters of extreme LDS fundamentalists have advocated blood atonement, whereby some achieve eternal life by having their blood shed.)

    Jodi Arias's blogger entries feature a few statements that seem ominous in retrospect. These statements and her reading list suggest to me that she was susceptible to New Age and self-help messages of destiny, a message that Travis' own deeply touching personal story probably reinforced. (Her blog also shows, I think, how entirely focused Jodi is on personal consciousness, not personal interaction. She's a bit more intelligent than I thought, but even more self-absorbed. Essentially, she views herself as a little moral teacher, the perfect mate of Travis, who everyone agrees was charismatic.):

    http://jodiarias.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html

    "Yet somehow, I don't believe that all of the wandering in the world will lead me to its attainment. Somehow, I know it's right here inside of me. This yearning I have is perhaps the yearning for it to explode into expression. To be fully expressed would be would mean ultimate gratification."


    "The Law of Attraction (here we go again...)


    About 6 months ago I stopped believing in the Law of Attraction, or at least the accuracy therein. And do you know what I found out? I found out that even when you don’t believe in it, it still continues to work with perfect precision! So while I now go about my day in a manner far removed from my previous Mode of Operation, that darn Law of Attraction keeps right on making itself evident in every area of my life. The Law of Attraction is real whether or not we give an ounce of credence to it. It is inherent. It is infallible. It is unavoidable."


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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyz_Mum View Post
    When she mentioned that she would rather get the death penalty, do any of you think that it would be because she don't feel that she can exsist in prison or if she believes that she and Travis will be together if she *dies*?

    (I don't know the Mormon faith, so I am not sure what they teach happens upon one's passing?)

    I can't think of one thing that gives me "reasonable doubt" in this case. Can anyone else think of anything that creates doubt?

    Kind of sad that she didn't have anyone in her family available to speak about her. There is usually one person, one friend, someone, who will step forward and try to support a person in this situation. Seems like Jodi's kind of alone in this.

    I don't think that Jodi seemed sad when she discussed the murder of Travis. She was kind of "matter of fact" in her description of what happened. Did anyone else think that?
    Hi, Boyz Mom. I too was struck by her statement about preferring the death penalty, which seems odd by some one who doesn't exactly look desperate now.

    Mormons do believe in hell, though they don't emphasize as intensely as many other evangelical religions. My guess is that Jodi thinks that as a sincere believer who is at peace with herself, she doesn't feel any anxiety in that direction.

    The family's silence can't be ignored, can it. I suspect that despite Jodi's claim that her family life has been idyllic, her family knows that she was obsessed with Travis and that she has deep unacknowledged emotional problems.

    I think that her only very, very, very chance of any reprieve would be the insanity plea that her lawyer has in mind.

    Jodi's unearthly evenness is one of the things that convinced me that she thinks that fate is being played out.


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  5. #48
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    I do think she is guilty - her story doesn't make sense. She sounds like a drugged-up Charles Manson type to me. But, that being said, IMO Travis was a real jerk - pretending to be a devout Mormon and using Jodi (with her permission) for sex. I can't imagine that he didn't know she was a "raw" type of girl, definitely not the kind of girl to take home to momma. I'm not saying he deserved it, but I think he was a player and he played with the wrong girl.


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  7. #49
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    Chanler ... I thought your post was thought provoking. If my request for you to detail your thoughts further was offensive, it wasn't meant to be. New to this and may need to hone my writing skills

    I missed the whole new age point, not something I am familiar with at all.
    "Law of attraction" blog post ... speaks to her obsession with Travis for sure. But I don't think it necessarily revealed her propensity for murder.

    Boyz_Mum I thought her eyes almost twinkled when she spoke about certain events. But that goes to what Chanler spoke about; she feels they are linked forever. He will never have that opportunity to ask another girl to go to Cancun instead of her, she took care of that for eternity.


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  9. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanler View Post
    Hi, Boyz Mom. I too was struck by her statement about preferring the death penalty, which seems odd by some one who doesn't exactly look desperate now.

    Mormons do believe in hell, though they don't emphasize as intensely as many other evangelical religions. My guess is that Jodi thinks that as a sincere believer who is at peace with herself, she doesn't feel any anxiety in that direction.

    The family's silence can't be ignored, can it. I suspect that despite Jodi's claim that her family life has been idyllic, her family knows that she was obsessed with Travis and that she has deep unacknowledged emotional problems.

    I think that her only very, very, very chance of any reprieve would be the insanity plea that her lawyer has in mind.

    Jodi's unearthly evenness is one of the things that convinced me that she thinks that fate is being played out.
    You say things very well.

    Jodi doesn't seem desperate, at all. Her situation, to most people (I'd like to think) is a desperate one. But she simply stated she'd rather have the death penalty. Maybe she's on some type of medication, but her lack of "reaction" to the situation she's in, even when she was asked "did you kill Travis", was unsettling to me. I don't explain it well, and I wasn't expecting to see huge drama play out on the show, but I did expect her to have a reaction of some sort. She was flat, like she had no emotion toward the sitation, at least nothing I could see. I would be curious to see what a psychiatric evaluation says about her.

    Knox said it well when speaking about the "twinkling eyes". Her eyes did seem to light up at times, which is another thing that I think is almost chilling.

    For anyone who knows anything more about Mormon beliefs, are Jodi's new age, philisophical sounding statements in anyway "in line" with the average Mormon thought? I realize she was a convert (I believe she converted because of her "relationship" with Travis, IIRC?) I don't know why, but her conversion to Mormon and her "peaceful demeanor" really bother me. Even if the idea of Hell isn't pounded into the heads of Mormons, surely the act of murder is still considered a sin?

    I was taken aback by her family/friends not appearing on the show (even a letter or taped phone call would have been nice to hear- just someone speaking in support of her?) It makes me wonder what her background really consisted of. IMO.

    The insanity plea does seem fitting for this case, Jodi seems off balance, IMO. It's almost like she was living a fairy tale and had to change the ending to suit herself. Know what I mean?


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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by who knew? View Post
    I do think she is guilty - her story doesn't make sense. She sounds like a drugged-up Charles Manson type to me. But, that being said, IMO Travis was a real jerk - pretending to be a devout Mormon and using Jodi (with her permission) for sex. I can't imagine that he didn't know she was a "raw" type of girl, definitely not the kind of girl to take home to momma. I'm not saying he deserved it, but I think he was a player and he played with the wrong girl.
    I think we all agree no one deserves what happened to Travis. Your point about getting mixed up with the wrong girl is a good one. He may have been playing around, but Jodi it seems was playing for keeps.

    (She reminded me of Charles Manson- but Charles Manson got pretty antimated for some of his interviews. Not a lot of people strike me as oddly as Charles, but Jodi did. )


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  13. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knox View Post
    Chanler ... I thought your post was thought provoking. If my request for you to detail your thoughts further was offensive, it wasn't meant to be. New to this and may need to hone my writing skills

    I missed the whole new age point, not something I am familiar with at all.
    "Law of attraction" blog post ... speaks to her obsession with Travis for sure. But I don't think it necessarily revealed her propensity for murder.

    Boyz_Mum I thought her eyes almost twinkled when she spoke about certain events. But that goes to what Chanler spoke about; she feels they are linked forever. He will never have that opportunity to ask another girl to go to Cancun instead of her, she took care of that for eternity.
    Hi, Knox. O, honestly, you didn't offend me; in fact, my "laser-sharp" remark was in tribute to you stating yourself so clearly! (I'm not a Mormon, by the way; I'm just really interested in the history of splinter religious and spiritual movements.)

    As you note, the "Law of Attraction," which was a bestseller, doesn't entail homicide, but it does present a world view where thought inevitably shapes future reality. For some one like Jodi who lives so much of her life inside her head, that could mean exploding into expression, to paraphrase her from her blog:

    "This yearning I have is perhaps the yearning for it to explode into expression. To be fully expressed would be would mean ultimate gratification."

    In her crazy view, how could she express herself more fully than to consummate her love for Travis with the ultimate gratification: keeping him for eternity?

    In another entry, she wrote:

    "Stop for a moment and consider these things. Then consider this: There is no need to wait a single moment longer. You can start now to follow your most compelling passion, to achieve your most treasured dreams.

    Yes, there are obstacles that stand in your way, but when you're living with purpose and passion, you will find a way around any obstacle and beyond any difficulty."


    The statement itself isn't really extraordinary, it might appear in any of a hundred self-help tomes, but when you factor in her obsession with Travis, it becomes a bit more ominous. (By the way, one of the comments to this entry actually writes: "If i did what I most wanted to do, well I would be in prison..." He's joking, but Jodi apparently did catch his serious subtext.


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  15. #53
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    Not sure this interview has been linked, dated March 2009. More of the same, basically states the same as in the 48 Hour piece, except that she explains why she is smiling in her mugshot.

    Sorry cannot get the link to work.
    Last edited by Knox; 06-28-2009 at 01:53 AM. Reason: Bad link, removed


  16. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyz_Mum View Post
    You say things very well.

    Jodi doesn't seem desperate, at all. Her situation, to most people (I'd like to think) is a desperate one. But she simply stated she'd rather have the death penalty. Maybe she's on some type of medication, but her lack of "reaction" to the situation she's in, even when she was asked "did you kill Travis", was unsettling to me. I don't explain it well, and I wasn't expecting to see huge drama play out on the show, but I did expect her to have a reaction of some sort. She was flat, like she had no emotion toward the sitation, at least nothing I could see. I would be curious to see what a psychiatric evaluation says about her.

    Knox said it well when speaking about the "twinkling eyes". Her eyes did seem to light up at times, which is another thing that I think is almost chilling.

    For anyone who knows anything more about Mormon beliefs, are Jodi's new age, philisophical sounding statements in anyway "in line" with the average Mormon thought? I realize she was a convert (I believe she converted because of her "relationship" with Travis, IIRC?) I don't know why, but her conversion to Mormon and her "peaceful demeanor" really bother me. Even if the idea of Hell isn't pounded into the heads of Mormons, surely the act of murder is still considered a sin?

    I was taken aback by her family/friends not appearing on the show (even a letter or taped phone call would have been nice to hear- just someone speaking in support of her?) It makes me wonder what her background really consisted of. IMO.

    The insanity plea does seem fitting for this case, Jodi seems off balance, IMO. It's almost like she was living a fairy tale and had to change the ending to suit herself. Know what I mean?
    Hi Boyz Mum, thanks for your kind words. I think that you captured perfectly the strangeness of Jodi's appearance during the interview. And you and Knox are right about those chilling twinkling eyes.

    I think that her family's attitude might be related to her "I will be the captain of my destiny" attitude. (How many young defendants would call a press conference soon after their arrest?)

    As for mainstream Mormon beliefs, homicide is definitely prohibited, though as individuals, most Mormons support capital punishment. (Some Mormon splinter groups oppose the death penalty and support pacifism.) However, because Mormonism is a relatively newly established American religion, it has from its earliest days spawned various splinter movements among its members and former members. I think that Jodi core beliefs are New Age; she fell in love with Travis and simply grafted Mormonism onto them. (Actually, the Book of Mormon is very laborious reading; Mark Twain called it "chloroform in print.")

    In some ways, Mormon belief in God's communicating with believers ("Temple talk," one Mormon called it) makes believers with other problems more susceptible to following an inner voice. For example, murder victim Faylene Grant was convinced that she was destined to soon die and that her husband was destined to marry his mistress! Even after her death, her family still spoke with enthusiasm about her spiritual gift.


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  18. #55
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    Arias held a press conference from jail in Sept 2008, you can watch the uncut footage (25 minutes) here http://www.azfamily.com/video/3tvext...ml?nvid=281832

    Crime scene photos are here : http://s193.photobucket.com/albums/z...USE/?start=all

    I've been fascinated by this case since this episode first aired on 48 Hours-- it's great to read all your insightful posts!


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  20. #56
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    The Grant case was interesting Chanler, I feel strongly that the husband manipulated and encouraged Faylene's religious "revelation". IMO she had mental issues that morphed into fanaticism. Gimme a break, if something stinks call it what it is ... The cliff incident in Utah and a few days later she is dead in the bathtub at home? Mr. Grant wanted that twenty something girlfriend badly

    Thanks for the links Nancy, this is an interesting case. I read an article on new age movement. I see why she was drawn to this type of thinking. What about the pre-paid legal aspect? Was she involved in that pre-Travis? Isn't PPL a sort of get rich quick scheme?


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  22. #57
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    The Grant case is odd. I too think the husband manipulated Faylene and her "gift".

    Chanler, thanks for the information you've given in regards to the Mormon religion. I chuckled at Mark Twain's opinion of the "book".

    Nancy, thank you too for the links.

    This is an interesting case and the interesting discussion is much appreciated.


  23. #58
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    Last edited by Chanler; 06-28-2009 at 08:45 PM. Reason: duplication


  24. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knox View Post
    The Grant case was interesting Chanler, I feel strongly that the husband manipulated and encouraged Faylene's religious "revelation". IMO she had mental issues that morphed into fanaticism. Gimme a break, if something stinks call it what it is ... The cliff incident in Utah and a few days later she is dead in the bathtub at home? Mr. Grant wanted that twenty something girlfriend badly

    Thanks for the links Nancy, this is an interesting case. I read an article on new age movement. I see why she was drawn to this type of thinking. What about the pre-paid legal aspect? Was she involved in that pre-Travis? Isn't PPL a sort of get rich quick scheme?
    Hi, Knox, I agree with your reading of the Faylene case. I think Mr. Grant just couldn't wait for Faylene to succeed at suicide. (In fact, I suspect that a "sensitive" person like her would take a failed suicide attempt, if that's what it was, as a sign from God that she live.)

    As for Prepaid Legal Services, I think that they are generally satisfactory for those selling such services (like Travis) and much, much less successful for those who had signed up for them. I don't know anything specifically about his business, but he was definitely working as a sign-up salesman, not as some one actually dealing with clients.


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  26. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by nancy botwin View Post
    Arias held a press conference from jail in Sept 2008, you can watch the uncut footage (25 minutes) here http://www.azfamily.com/video/3tvext...ml?nvid=281832

    Crime scene photos are here : http://s193.photobucket.com/albums/z...USE/?start=all

    I've been fascinated by this case since this episode first aired on 48 Hours-- it's great to read all your insightful posts!
    Thanks Nancy for the link to the press conference. Her answer to the question about the camera, really creeped me out. It was around 19:19 on the video, when asked about the camera, her first answer is it was his camera and that the LE told her the camera went off by itself and it appears the pictures were taken on the floor. Interesting, how a camera that went off by itself, showed up in the washing machine.

    I also agree about her eyes, when you look at her, it's like looking at a person with no soul.


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