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Thread: Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

  1. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reannan View Post
    That is interesting about the .357 vs .38 caliber... is it common for someone with a .38 caliber weapon to use .357 bullets? What would be the rationale for doing this?
    .38s are the same diameter as .357s but they recoil less. You can't use .357s in .38 because the shell casing i too long, only vice versa.

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  3. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHB View Post
    .38s are the same diameter as .357s but they recoil less. You can't use .357s in .38 because the shell casing i too long, only vice versa.
    Thanks PHB... then we are back to the question of why do reports indicate the couple was shot with .357, but the "murder weapon" found in Lonnie George Henry's car was a .38 Smith and Wesson? We have discussed how aspects of this case seemed like a cover-up in the past. The thing is - at this point, I just want the victims to have their identity back.....

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  5. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reannan View Post
    Thanks PHB... then we are back to the question of why do reports indicate the couple was shot with .357, but the "murder weapon" found in Lonnie George Henry's car was a .38 Smith and Wesson? We have discussed how aspects of this case seemed like a cover-up in the past. The thing is - at this point, I just want the victims to have their identity back.....
    BBM.
    Good question. Does anyone know if forensics can detemine if a bullet came out of a .38 shell casing vs a .357?

  6. #329
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    A .357 is usually a heavier bullet (because it can be with the greater charge) so if it was a bullet that was heavier than anything that comes in a .38 then you would know it was a .357. If it was a lighter .357 then I doubt that you could tell for sure unless it was a particular type of bullet (point type or makeup or brand name or whatever) that only came in one or the other number designations. Those are some but not necessarily all the ways to tell. I would expect that there are some bullets where you would not be able to tell for sure which they came from.

    For that matter, a 9mm that was deformed in firing and impact could also look very much like a .357/.38.
    Last edited by STANDREID; 04-13-2012 at 07:37 PM.
    This is my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

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  8. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reannan View Post
    Thanks PHB... then we are back to the question of why do reports indicate the couple was shot with .357, but the "murder weapon" found in Lonnie George Henry's car was a .38 Smith and Wesson? We have discussed how aspects of this case seemed like a cover-up in the past. The thing is - at this point, I just want the victims to have their identity back.....
    Yes, I would say either something "funny" was going on or simply that one of the reports was in error.
    This is my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

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  10. #331
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    Has someone already posted this male as possible match?





    #789UMCO unidentified found The victim was discovered on September 8, 2004 in the Flat Tops, White River National Forest, Garfield County, Colorado
    Estimated Date of Death: No longer than 5 years prior to discovery he left a note to "LIB"
    PLEASE HELP me find out who this unidentified person is so he can be buried rightfully near his family...


    I DO NOT TOLERATE HARASSMENT...

  11. #332
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    I read about the report from the KOA worker earlier in the thread. How far was that campground from where the bodies were discovered? Were any bags or other belongings ever found? Camping equipment? The female victim wasn't wearing the type of shoes that most women would wear if they were camping/traveling on foot. They must have either had their car stolen, or they were staying somewhere nearby where they could change/keep their bags. Any campgrounds nearby with unclaimed belongings? Hotels with occupants who never returned? These people were most likely traveling through the area, so what happened to their stuff? They weren't reported as being dirty or looking like they were unwashed, so where were they staying?
    Do you have language questions or letters/documents that you'd like to have examined in order to determine the language background of the writer? I can help!

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  13. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by marie-chantal View Post
    I read about the report from the KOA worker earlier in the thread. How far was that campground from where the bodies were discovered? Were any bags or other belongings ever found? Camping equipment? The female victim wasn't wearing the type of shoes that most women would wear if they were camping/traveling on foot. They must have either had their car stolen, or they were staying somewhere nearby where they could change/keep their bags. Any campgrounds nearby with unclaimed belongings? Hotels with occupants who never returned? These people were most likely traveling through the area, so what happened to their stuff? They weren't reported as being dirty or looking like they were unwashed, so where were they staying?
    There is no information on what happened to their stuff. The KOA story came out a year later, so their stuff they may have left behind at the KOA was long gone. There is no info provided in the thread as to if any gear was reported unclaimed at other campgrounds or motels in the area and given the length of time since then, any records are long gone.

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  15. #334
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    Fascinating case. Is it known what kind of accents they both spoke with ?

    The dental work the young guy had had done is very puzzling...where could he have been,that his teeth were in such bad shape ? Didn't most states use flouride in the water back then ? I know Nevada didn't start using flouridated drinking water until later than the other states..

    Also, how did he suddenly have the money and/or dental insurance to get such extensive dental work done ? And it looked to be American standard of dentistry,yet no dentist ever came forward to say that he worked on this guy's teeth ? Weird...MOO

    I kind of thought they may have been Cubans...would explain why no one was looking for them. If their families were still in Cuba... Maybe they were originally from Cuba,but living in Florida, and that's where the car racing interest came from.Maybe around Daytona...

    Going to read more...

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  17. #335
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    Is it just me, or does Jane look like she's wearing eyeliner, maybe eyeshadow? If so, where is the makeup?

  18. #336
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    Also, I'm from Charleston and I'm going up to visit at the end of this month. I plan to make a detour to visit the scene of the crime. Anyone know whereabouts on locklear rd they were found? Any landmarks or even coordinates?
    I know it sounds macarbe to want to visit these places, but I feel one can learn alot by being in the actual area rather than just viewing google earth.

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  20. #337
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    An article in the National Post (3 april 08) said that the couple "stepped from the back of a van" before being shot. I am assuming they know its a van due to tire impressions, and footprints may have been in such a way to look as if they got out the back of the vehicle. I have not read this anywhere else.

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  22. #338
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    I noticed the eyeliner too

    Quote Originally Posted by parakeet View Post
    Is it just me, or does Jane look like she's wearing eyeliner, maybe eyeshadow? If so, where is the makeup?

    I did not really want to look too deeply a few times I just looked it over quickly.
    But I did notice eyeliner, still the description says her legs were not shaven?
    Some controlling men do not allow shaving of any body parts.
    They may have been held captive for a few weeks and she was not allowed to shve her legs?




    #789UMCO unidentified found The victim was discovered on September 8, 2004 in the Flat Tops, White River National Forest, Garfield County, Colorado
    Estimated Date of Death: No longer than 5 years prior to discovery he left a note to "LIB"
    PLEASE HELP me find out who this unidentified person is so he can be buried rightfully near his family...


    I DO NOT TOLERATE HARASSMENT...

  23. #339
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    It's very interesting that she did not have the dental problems that the young guy had... I wonder about their relationship.How did they know each other ? The only commonality that they had when they were found is that neither was wearing underwear... It seems kind of unusual for a young woman not to wear any underwear. Because of periods etc ? MOO

    ETA I found out that race cars and car races were a popular thing in Cuba at one time...but before the young guy's time, he would have been a kid. There was a group of Argentines who lived in Cuba before Castro took over, and they were big on race cars... FWIW, and JMO

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  25. #340
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    If there is a chance these are Europeans, could they DNA not be enterd into the European systems as it might pick up a relative. On that note does the american DNA system allow for comparing DNA to see if an unknown donor has a relative in the system. Alternatively universities might be prepared to look at the DNA. I read somewhere that there was a high chance that a man's DNA could be narrowed down to just a few surnames by looking at various databases. Also if the DNA was examined they might be able to detect their ancestory, which might hint as to where they are from. I know that they can sometimes detect where a perosn lived by looking at their bone make-up, maybe they could do that too. It seems to be it might be good if LE asked a university to look at the bones for their own interest rather than having it treated like a nrmal cold case.

  26. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by marie-chantal View Post
    I read about the report from the KOA worker earlier in the thread.
    How far was that campground from where the bodies were discovered?

    Were any bags or other belongings ever found? Camping equipment?

    The female victim wasn't wearing the type of shoes that most women would wear if they were camping/traveling on foot.
    They must have either had their car stolen, or they were staying somewhere nearby where they could change/keep their bags.
    Any campgrounds nearby with unclaimed belongings?
    Hotels with occupants who never returned?
    These people were most likely traveling through the area, so what happened to their stuff?
    They weren't reported as being dirty or looking like they were unwashed, so where were they staying?
    Marie, I agree...the girls shoes was not the kind of shoes to wear if someone was hiking or camping.
    I read somewhere, that the coroner said they both were very clean and had just had manicures and pedicures...what young adults, in the '70's got pedicures? also noted the extra long eyelashes on the female.

    I have always suspected a big cover-up in this case..for unknown reasons.
    I also read the truck driver that was found with the murder weapon, was suspected of being a police informant/snitch.
    I can't see any investigator keeping his job and seemly being so slack and incompentant in a double murder case.. Even in that small area.

    Are any of the original investigators still working on the force now???

    ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’..
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds...What I write here, are my theories, speculation, opinions & deductive reasoning...not to be taken as 'fact'..

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  28. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz b. View Post
    It's very interesting that she did not have the dental problems that the young guy had... I wonder about their relationship.How did they know each other ?
    The only commonality that they had when they were found is that neither was wearing underwear...
    It seems kind of unusual for a young woman not to wear any underwear. Because of periods etc ? MOO

    ETA I found out that race cars and car races were a popular thing in Cuba at one time...but before the young guy's time, he would have been a kid. There was a group of Argentines who lived in Cuba before Castro took over, and they were big on race cars... FWIW, and JMO
    Liz, I read a long time back, the males dental work was of exceptional quality..very expensive and of quality workmanship.
    I also read where a Gentleman that owned a Boating company claimed to have known who they were before he suddenly died.

    Does anyone remember reading that just by 'coincidence' the house/office that housed the camping files, names, personal info of all the campers just 'happened' to burn up after the couple was murdered...
    Why is it taking years and years to get the DNA results...everything in this case is hinky..Hmmmmmm!..imo

    ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’..
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds...What I write here, are my theories, speculation, opinions & deductive reasoning...not to be taken as 'fact'..

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  30. #343
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    I haven't read alot of this case over the last couple of years so I don't know if anyone mentioned Eileen Hynson that went missing June 1, 1976 from CA. I really think this is her.
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...on_eileen.html

  31. #344
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    Paul R. Hibbard went missing from Gillette, Wyoming on May 28, 1976. His description is close plus he has an appendix scar, but there is no picture of him and I can't find one. I know how good all the websleuthers are so I'm hoping someone here can find one.

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  33. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janet View Post
    Paul R. Hibbard went missing from Gillette, Wyoming on May 28, 1976. His description is close plus he has an appendix scar, but there is no picture of him and I can't find one. I know how good all the websleuthers are so I'm hoping someone here can find one.

    Sorry - Here's the link
    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/14835/150

  34. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janet View Post
    No picture but bits of clues to circumstances on page from the Campbell County Public Library System in Wyoming.
    On page 352 of this pdf file are 8 periodical headlines & dates for Paul Hibbard. They are:
    7/6/1976 Man charged with theft of missing geologist's too...(tools? toolbox?)
    7/7/1976 Sheriff airborne in search
    8/23/1976 Missing geologist's truck found
    1/20/1977 Tests indicate blood in vehicle
    1/25/1977 Guilty plea entered for taking equipment from geo....
    3/18/1977 Sentencing set Monday for Dowdy
    3/22/1977 Dowdy gets penitentiary sentence
    5/27/1977 Hibbard probe continuing
    http://www.ccpls.org/localhistory/Lo...y1970_1979.pdf

    Maybe this will help someone find a photo. But it doesn't sound like he'd be able to travel to SC based on those headlines to be part of this mystery couple.

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  36. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by KateB View Post
    No picture but bits of clues to circumstances on page from the Campbell County Public Library System in Wyoming.
    On page 352 of this pdf file are 8 periodical headlines & dates for Paul Hibbard. They are:
    7/6/1976 Man charged with theft of missing geologist's too...(tools? toolbox?)
    7/7/1976 Sheriff airborne in search
    8/23/1976 Missing geologist's truck found
    1/20/1977 Tests indicate blood in vehicle
    1/25/1977 Guilty plea entered for taking equipment from geo....
    3/18/1977 Sentencing set Monday for Dowdy
    3/22/1977 Dowdy gets penitentiary sentence
    5/27/1977 Hibbard probe continuing
    http://www.ccpls.org/localhistory/Lo...y1970_1979.pdf

    Maybe this will help someone find a photo. But it doesn't sound like he'd be able to travel to SC based on those headlines to be part of this mystery couple.
    I can't get the page to load - I'll try later. I really would like to read it especially now that I read blood was found in the vehicle which was located after the bodies were found. I'd like to know if he was present in the court and who is Dowdy? Why should blood be found in a missing truck of stoken tools ? Interesting Maybe I can find a mug shot of him. Thanks

  37. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janet View Post
    I can't get the page to load - I'll try later. I really would like to read it especially now that I read blood was found in the vehicle which was located after the bodies were found. I'd like to know if he was present in the court and who is Dowdy? Why should blood be found in a missing truck of stoken tools ? Interesting Maybe I can find a mug shot of him. Thanks
    There isn't anymore information in the file, just these headlines. I don't even know for sure which newspaper this is a list from, but possibly http://www.gillettenewsrecord.com/
    I'm not sure how old the Gillette News is, or if that county has more than one newspaper.

    From their about us: "The daily newspaper - the only daily newspaper covering Gillette and Campbell County " Established 1904. So most likely from that paper.

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  39. #349
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    The couple's remains were exhumed in 2007 for DNA samples, but I cannot find anything showing where their DNA profiles have ever been compared to any missing persons.
    I have not found this couple in NAMUS either. Wonder why not? It seems that when the previous coroner retired that the interest in this case was also officially retired. How does one get this couple's case registered with NAMUS?

    Well never mind, I see now that SLED has to officially enter the cases into NAMUS.
    Last edited by scmom; 06-23-2012 at 02:03 AM. Reason: Added info

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  41. #350
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    Can a civilian request SLED that these 2 be put in NAMUS? Well, I guess anybody can, but I mean will they listen? Or must it go through LE?

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