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  1. #76
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    Justthinkin, you have raised some very interesting questions. Granted, I was born in 1976, and have no idea how politics ran back then, let alone in Sumter County, I can attest to the fact that there are A LOT of issues today in several law enforcement agencies in my area, Sumter being one of those areas. While the complaints today have been more about a LACK of LE involvement in Sumter, I can see where the "good ole boy" system could have been in play back then... It still is today in several departments in my immediate area, even though no one really wants to speak of it or acknoledge it. Rumors of corruption and misuse of office are rampent and hard to dispell. Wonder if trying to get some of the local TV stations involved, maybe even going as far as asking a show like "Cold Case Files" to profile the story could do some benefit. It just amazes me that 33 years later, these 2 seem to be missed by no one, and no one appears to be making an effort to ID them without prodding- except for those here on WebSleuths, that seem to care more than LE does.
    Last edited by eeyorelrn; 07-28-2009 at 04:33 AM. Reason: spelling, clarification of statements.
    God Grant me the serenity to accept those things which I cannot change, the strength to change those things which I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

    There comes a point in your life when you realize who matters, who never did, who won't anymore, and who always will. So don't worry about people from your past; there's a reason why they didn't make it to your future.


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  3. #77
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    Hi eeyorelrn,

    Forgot to say, welcome to WS. Great to have another mind at work here! I've never set foot in SC, but I do know small towns and the good ol boy system.
    Sheriff Parnell had been in ofc. over 20 years when these murders happened, and he was treading water after the Peg Cuttino case and the railroading of Junior Pierce for her murder. It was as if the mystery couple was anti-climatic to the Cuttino case. The locals were up in arms already, and Parnell had neared the end of his tenure. His nephew , the then coroner had resigned over the Cuttino case. Sadly, TruTvCrime.com has removed the story which is too bad because it provided a great background to this case. I have written the author to notify him the story's been removed, and to find out how to get a copy.

    From the chapter, Pee Wee's Playhouse in Outrage: The Peg Cuttino Story, by author Seamus McGraw, and as appeared on TruTv.Com/Crimes
    this excerpt:
    "Over the years, Gaskins gave at least two accounts of the killing. In one
    particularly sordid version, he claimed to have been part of a murder-theft
    ring that he claimed was operating with the knowledge of police officials in
    South Carolina. The killer claimed that he had been hired by a never named
    law enforcement officer to "assassinate" Peg Cuttino. "

    To be fair, I should note there are people who claim all that Gaskins learned of the Cuttino murder, he learned from Junior Pierce while both were imprisoned. Then again, if someone in LE had ordered the Cuttino murder, then that person would've wanted to discredit Gaskin's story because of its implications of LE's involvement.

    Of interesting note, Mr. McGraw claimed knowledge that Pee Wee was a snitch for LE, but he doesn't say whether that was at the local or state level.

    Certainly, there's been little in the way of document releases by LE & the coroner's office on the mystery couple--no autopsy reports, no ballistics, no ME's findings. We have dentals, but now on teeth that have been lost or else that was a story told for someone's amusement. I've never heard of removing the teeth from a victim deliberately. You get the idea.
    Last edited by justthinkin; 07-28-2009 at 03:06 PM.


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  5. #78
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    I found this article on the Internet about DNA being used at the possible crash site of Amelia Earhart. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/sto...ahoo_pitchlist

    Thought you all might find it interesting. I don't understand why it's taken so long for the DNA samples of Jock and Jane to come back.


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  7. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by eeyorelrn View Post
    Justthinkin, you have raised some very interesting questions. Granted, I was born in 1976, and have no idea how politics ran back then, let alone in Sumter County, I can attest to the fact that there are A LOT of issues today in several law enforcement agencies in my area, Sumter being one of those areas. While the complaints today have been more about a LACK of LE involvement in Sumter, I can see where the "good ole boy" system could have been in play back then... It still is today in several departments in my immediate area, even though no one really wants to speak of it or acknoledge it. Rumors of corruption and misuse of office are rampent and hard to dispell. Wonder if trying to get some of the local TV stations involved, maybe even going as far as asking a show like "Cold Case Files" to profile the story could do some benefit. It just amazes me that 33 years later, these 2 seem to be missed by no one, and no one appears to be making an effort to ID them without prodding- except for those here on WebSleuths, that seem to care more than LE does.
    I can't for the life of me figure out why no one from either Jock or Jane's family has even came forward to query the whereabouts of them. Even if Jock's father disowned him, the guy must have had friends, associates, co-workers that were concerned about him.

    Here's what I think happened: I believe that Jock was a truck driver and either he was "bootlegging" or got caught up in some drug trade or more likely he was an innocent man who was a truck driver that was driving cross-country in the summer of '76. Either Jane was traveling with him or she hitchhiked at some point and he picked her up. It was not uncommon for people to hitchhike back then. I think Jock came from the Pacific Northwest either British Columbia or Alberta. I don't believe that Jane was his sister. More likely she was his girlfriend and they were going to the campground together as a couple.

    I suspect that Jane was American although she could have came from Canada as well.

    Also, I traveled through Sebring, FL a couple of months ago. It is very rural and I saw lots of cattle there. It looked like more cows lived there than humans.


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  9. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by elliottness View Post
    I can't for the life of me figure out why no one from either Jock or Jane's family has even came forward to query the whereabouts of them. Even if Jock's father disowned him, the guy must have had friends, associates, co-workers that were concerned about him.

    Here's what I think happened: I believe that Jock was a truck driver and either he was "bootlegging" or got caught up in some drug trade or more likely he was an innocent man who was a truck driver that was driving cross-country in the summer of '76. Either Jane was traveling with him or she hitchhiked at some point and he picked her up. It was not uncommon for people to hitchhike back then. I think Jock came from the Pacific Northwest either British Columbia or Alberta. I don't believe that Jane was his sister. More likely she was his girlfriend and they were going to the campground together as a couple.

    I suspect that Jane was American although she could have came from Canada as well.

    Also, I traveled through Sebring, FL a couple of months ago. It is very rural and I saw lots of cattle there. It looked like more cows lived there than humans.
    Why do you think this? You are guessing now?


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  11. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by elliottness View Post
    I can't for the life of me figure out why no one from either Jock or Jane's family has even came forward to query the whereabouts of them. Even if Jock's father disowned him, the guy must have had friends, associates, co-workers that were concerned about him.
    A few thoughts...

    1. Jock seems to be very similar in a lot of ways to my dad. Back in the early 70s, my dad got out of high school and proceeded to hitchhike all around the US and Canada for a few years and even flew over to Europe for a summer of hitchhiking around. My dad worked in some kind of a plant in Atlanta, he sold books door to door in New York State as well as all kinds of things in between. With the ability of transients to move, crossing multiple jurisdictions, state lines and international borders in a short amount of time...

    2. Where would one begin? Let's say for the sake of argument that everything said about Jock is true, his dad was a doctor and Jock was disowned. Jock didn't want to be a doctor, so he took off. He didn't keep in contact with his parents, but maybe he sent siblings a postcard now and then or called long distance collect to keep in touch. He stopped and worked as a teacher and then maybe took off on a hitchhiking tour. By the time anyone would realize that he was /gone/, he could have dropped off the face of the earth and ended up dead and buried in rural South Carolina.

    3. Given everything else we know about the county dragging its feet in the investigation, I doubt highly that they made an effort to publicize the case. The media got a hold of it and it was news across South Carolina, but if the parents or siblings were looking far away in Canada... With no Internet and little communication at that point in time across jurisdictional lines, the search would be very hard and time consuming.

    4. Maybe the family just gave up and decided to let it rest. The other big case I follow here at WS is the Lyon sisters of Maryland. Their parents are described by people who know them as interested in finding out what happened to their daughters, but also having moved on with their lives.


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  13. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhyno1974 View Post
    Why do you think this? You are guessing now?
    Aren't we all guessing?


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  15. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fukiyama View Post
    A few thoughts...

    1. Jock seems to be very similar in a lot of ways to my dad. Back in the early 70s, my dad got out of high school and proceeded to hitchhike all around the US and Canada for a few years and even flew over to Europe for a summer of hitchhiking around. My dad worked in some kind of a plant in Atlanta, he sold books door to door in New York State as well as all kinds of things in between. With the ability of transients to move, crossing multiple jurisdictions, state lines and international borders in a short amount of time...

    2. Where would one begin? Let's say for the sake of argument that everything said about Jock is true, his dad was a doctor and Jock was disowned. Jock didn't want to be a doctor, so he took off. He didn't keep in contact with his parents, but maybe he sent siblings a postcard now and then or called long distance collect to keep in touch. He stopped and worked as a teacher and then maybe took off on a hitchhiking tour. By the time anyone would realize that he was /gone/, he could have dropped off the face of the earth and ended up dead and buried in rural South Carolina.

    3. Given everything else we know about the county dragging its feet in the investigation, I doubt highly that they made an effort to publicize the case. The media got a hold of it and it was news across South Carolina, but if the parents or siblings were looking far away in Canada... With no Internet and little communication at that point in time across jurisdictional lines, the search would be very hard and time consuming.

    4. Maybe the family just gave up and decided to let it rest. The other big case I follow here at WS is the Lyon sisters of Maryland. Their parents are described by people who know them as interested in finding out what happened to their daughters, but also having moved on with their lives.
    Hopefully the publicity on the Yakimchuk case might generate some attention to someone who is close to Jock or Jane and they might finally come forward. We have a very powerful tool here called the Internet. We can use this website, other message boards, social networking sites like Facebook and Twitter, and last but not least YouTube. If a video showing someone eating their boogers can generate a million hits then if we got half that number of people to read up on Jock and Jane we might help solve this mystery. Has anyone thought about creating a YouTube channel for Websleuths? Just a thought.


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  17. #84
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    elliottness, what about the claim made by the KAO worker that Jock said he was a teacher?

    Don't get me wrong, I love House M.D. so I know the theory for 'Everyone Lies' but I don't see any evidence to suggest that he was a truck driver. Not saying that you're wrong, by any means.. just curious as to how you got to this idea.

    I think, most importantly, we need an LE source. Anyone? Please? Make contact with LE so that perhaps we can get some of these questions answered to the best of their ability.

    nothing seems black when i see your red shoes


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  19. #85
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    So many theories, so many possibilities.... As far as Pee Wee Gaskins, while I was young when he was executioned, I did hear a lot about his case, especially after all the media coverage of Larry Gene Bell in the late 80's and early 90's. His story was kind of rehashed so to speak, I guess kind of in a comparison to Bell so to speak, since Gaskins was one of the first multiple murderers in SC to get so much noteriaty. I went to church with a man whose family grew up near Pee Wee's old stomping grounds, and there had been talk for years about all of the people that just "went missing" around him. According to this man when they would have family get togethers, the kids were always told stories about Pee Wee stalking the loacal area looking for "more bad boys and girls' souls to take," which seemed to work at keeping the kids in check, especially since they would often see him at that local gas stations and general stores driving around in his hearse with a shovel and a constant supply of dirt in the back. Sadly enough, he was executioned only after being convicted for making an IED out of a radio and using it to murder another inmate while incarcerated, not for the murders that LE knew he had comitted andconvicted him of on the outside (due to the death penalty being overturned in the early 1970's.) Yes, some of the rumors were that Pee Wee did snitch to LE, and If i remember correctly from a documentary on SC ETV (the state's PBS station) that was one of the reasons floated around widely back then as to why it supposedly it took LE so long to look into those missing people in his life (although I have a feeling it had more to do with Pee Wee just being that scarily a genious criminal with the ability to hide his crimes than with anything else.)

    With that said, you would have thought that even after all the flack surrounding the Gaskins cases, and the rumors that were floating behind closed doors about that, SOMEONE in LE would have jumped on this case and tried to push to solve it, if for nothing else, to quell those rumors and reestabilish themselves as local heros. Who knows why this case ended up becoming cold so fast. Was it just the nauture of the crime its self (2 anonymous non locals left dead on the side of the road) or the nature of the underbelly of politics in SC at the time... we will never truely know.

    The closest things we HAVE to possibly identifing these 2 are the autopsy photos/reports, a possible eyewittnes who thinks they spoke to 'Jock' in Santee at the KOA campgrounds, and the jewelry they were wearing. Such a frustrating case.
    God Grant me the serenity to accept those things which I cannot change, the strength to change those things which I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

    There comes a point in your life when you realize who matters, who never did, who won't anymore, and who always will. So don't worry about people from your past; there's a reason why they didn't make it to your future.


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  21. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by elliottness View Post
    Hopefully the publicity on the Yakimchuk case might generate some attention to someone who is close to Jock or Jane and they might finally come forward. We have a very powerful tool here called the Internet. We can use this website, other message boards, social networking sites like Facebook and Twitter, and last but not least YouTube. If a video showing someone eating their boogers can generate a million hits then if we got half that number of people to read up on Jock and Jane we might help solve this mystery. Has anyone thought about creating a YouTube channel for Websleuths? Just a thought.
    Ok, that You Tube idea is one of the wildest, yet brilliant ideas I have heard today... Not the millions of hits of a kid eating a booger (that just mystifies me that something that yuck could garnish so much attention worldwide.)

    Administrators, has anyone ever thought about something like this, let alone tried to do something like this? Is this something that we as a site could collectively work on, like for certain cases? Would there need to be some kind of guidelines set up? Does anyone know what would have to be done, as far as including LE and staying well within legal boundaries? Is that something that LE would even be interested in doing? This would DEFINITELY be a major undertaing, but heck, I would be willing to make a day trip to Sumter do a impromptu taped talk to with an investigator or the ME in Sumter county just to get a few quotes or something, I have a You Tube account that I would even be willing to post any videos to.

    I do believe this could be useful, but there woud definitely have to be some MAJOR investigation into all the legalities, ramifications, and possible backlash. Is this something that the administrators would even WANT to look into? It would definitely take A LOT of personal time on peoples parts. Then again, the people here seem to be extremely dedicated to finding the lost and giving the unknown their identities back, it could actually be possible. Though this would HAVE to be something site approved and justified.

    Ok, I will stop rambling now.... I just had an idea flash after reading elliottness' comment, and my fingers and my hands went word crazy.
    God Grant me the serenity to accept those things which I cannot change, the strength to change those things which I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

    There comes a point in your life when you realize who matters, who never did, who won't anymore, and who always will. So don't worry about people from your past; there's a reason why they didn't make it to your future.


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  23. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by eeyorelrn View Post
    With that said, you would have thought that even after all the flack surrounding the Gaskins cases, and the rumors that were floating behind closed doors about that, SOMEONE in LE would have jumped on this case and tried to push to solve it, if for nothing else, to quell those rumors and reestabilish themselves as local heros. Who knows why this case ended up becoming cold so fast. Was it just the nauture of the crime its self (2 anonymous non locals left dead on the side of the road) or the nature of the underbelly of politics in SC at the time... we will never truely know.

    The closest things we HAVE to possibly identifing these 2 are the autopsy photos/reports, a possible eyewittnes who thinks they spoke to 'Jock' in Santee at the KOA campgrounds, and the jewelry they were wearing. Such a frustrating case.
    Leaving out all the speculation on LE corruption in the area, just read Helter Skelter, a documented case of law enforcement having all the pieces of the puzzle of a mass murderer's crimes right under its nose and just about blowing it except for a few lucky breaks.


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  25. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by youshouldveknown View Post
    elliottness, what about the claim made by the KAO worker that Jock said he was a teacher?

    Don't get me wrong, I love House M.D. so I know the theory for 'Everyone Lies' but I don't see any evidence to suggest that he was a truck driver. Not saying that you're wrong, by any means.. just curious as to how you got to this idea.

    I think, most importantly, we need an LE source. Anyone? Please? Make contact with LE so that perhaps we can get some of these questions answered to the best of their ability.
    I don't think that Jock lied. I didn't mean that he was employed as a truck driver, but perhaps he was driving a truck cross-country. I don't know.

    Any news on Yakimchuk?


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  27. #89
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    Didnt see it anyplace,but what kind of gun was used?


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  29. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by elliottness View Post
    I don't think that Jock lied. I didn't mean that he was employed as a truck driver, but perhaps he was driving a truck cross-country. I don't know.
    Oops, no no, I didn't think you thought Jock had lied, but more that the KAO guy lied about what he was told. Sorry for the confusion.

    If the KAO guy was involved like some have theorized, this is plausible. And you're absolutely right, elliottness, Jock and Jane could have been travelling in a semi.

    nothing seems black when i see your red shoes


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