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Thread: Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

  1. #126
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    Mysterylover

    Mysterylover

    I cannot acces the site.

    Do you have a better link? I cannot find her.

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  3. #127
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    I found Jennifer Klein

    I found Jennifer Klein


    Jennifer Klein ("Jenny")


    MISSING SINCE: 5/25/1974
    DOB: 5/14/1971
    AGE: (3 at time of disappearance)
    HEIGHT: 3' 2" (at time of disappearance)
    WEIGHT: 35 lbs (at time of disappearance)
    HAIR: Brown
    EYES: Blue
    RACE: White

    CONTACT: Detective Curt Brewer with Grand County (Utah) Sheriff's Office (435) 259-8115

    MISSING ENDANGERED: Jennifer Klein ("Jenny") was last seen with her family when they were camped at a campground approximately ten miles north of Moab, Utah. The campground was in the trees and there was a path through the woods that led to the river. There were several people (adults and children) who were out by the river. The campground was full because it was the Memorial Day weekend. Jennifer's father, Howard had gone back to the camper for something and Jenny was playing in the sand. There was a dogfight and everyone turned their attention to the dogs. When Jennifer's mother and brother (five years old at time of disappearance) turned back around Jennifer was gone.

    Some of the people in the campground appeared to be transients and they were never questioned. One of the questionable vehicles was an old car parked between the Klein camper and the river. The family doesn't remember anyone at the campground being interviewed. Mr. and Mrs. Klein think that the area was used for both overnight camping and day use.

    Jennifer had just turned three and weighed approximately 35 pounds. She was about 3'2" tall. She had a distinctive cowlick on the right side of her forehead and a birthmark on her stomach---possibly on the left side.

    Contact the Grand County Utah Sheriff's Office at 435-259-8115 with any information.
    HOTLINE: 1-888-770-6477 - Telephone (Daytime): 1-801-965-4686
    I agree she is a good match.

    However, I do not want to mix up the J&J Doe thread with the Sharon Marshal thread, so I will stop posting here.

    Just want all you J&J Doe peeps to keep this in mind!

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  5. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyK View Post
    I found Jennifer Klein


    Jennifer Klein ("Jenny")


    MISSING SINCE: 5/25/1974
    DOB: 5/14/1971
    AGE: (3 at time of disappearance)
    HEIGHT: 3' 2" (at time of disappearance)
    WEIGHT: 35 lbs (at time of disappearance)
    HAIR: Brown
    EYES: Blue
    RACE: White

    CONTACT: Detective Curt Brewer with Grand County (Utah) Sheriff's Office (435) 259-8115

    MISSING ENDANGERED: Jennifer Klein ("Jenny") was last seen with her family when they were camped at a campground approximately ten miles north of Moab, Utah. The campground was in the trees and there was a path through the woods that led to the river. There were several people (adults and children) who were out by the river. The campground was full because it was the Memorial Day weekend. Jennifer's father, Howard had gone back to the camper for something and Jenny was playing in the sand. There was a dogfight and everyone turned their attention to the dogs. When Jennifer's mother and brother (five years old at time of disappearance) turned back around Jennifer was gone.

    Some of the people in the campground appeared to be transients and they were never questioned. One of the questionable vehicles was an old car parked between the Klein camper and the river. The family doesn't remember anyone at the campground being interviewed. Mr. and Mrs. Klein think that the area was used for both overnight camping and day use.

    Jennifer had just turned three and weighed approximately 35 pounds. She was about 3'2" tall. She had a distinctive cowlick on the right side of her forehead and a birthmark on her stomach---possibly on the left side.

    Contact the Grand County Utah Sheriff's Office at 435-259-8115 with any information.
    HOTLINE: 1-888-770-6477 - Telephone (Daytime): 1-801-965-4686
    I agree she is a good match.

    However, I do not want to mix up the J&J Doe thread with the Sharon Marshal thread, so I will stop posting here.

    Just want all you J&J Doe peeps to keep this in mind!
    Jennifer Klein has already been ruled out as being Sharon Marshall according to that thread.

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  7. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhyno1974 View Post
    Jennifer Klein has already been ruled out as being Sharon Marshall according to that thread.
    rhyno, Where did you read that Jennifer was ruled out. I can't find it!

    ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’..
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds...What I write here, are my theories, speculation, opinions & deductive reasoning...not to be taken as 'fact'..

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  9. #130
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    List of ruled-out girls in the Sharon Marshall #3 thread.

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  11. #131
    StaceyK, I do not need to look up the threads about Sharon, I have followed her case for a long time. I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else with my posts here, I just personally think you are wrong, and I still can not see the connection here. We are all here for the same thing, in the end... If we have different means then so be it. I'll keep following this thread until this case is solved and these kids are identified. As I'm sure you will...
    Thanks for thinking outside the box, as they say... just not my box
    Last edited by mayfairlight; 09-18-2009 at 10:53 PM.

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  13. #132
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    So does anyone want to volunteer to call the Edmonton, Alberta PD to find out their progress with the Sumter dna?

    Not that I think there's a match. I'd just be curious as to what Sumter had to say, as in where they'd sent the mystery couple's dna if in fact they actually sent it anywhere.

    Let's see. So far we've had reports they sent it to their state lab. Then there was the report it went to a lab in Ft. Worth, Tx., and last I recall it had been sent to the lab at NTSU.

    Is this a shell game?

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  15. #133
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    I'm not physically able to call anyone, but I would like to know as well.

    Personally though... I think it's a shell game, yes; there is no DNA.

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  17. #134
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    I don't know where you are in this case, I am still on thread 1, reading and taking notes, but I wanted to put this out there and I hope it doesn't derail anyone. And sorry if it's been suggested, but bear with me.

    The dentals are weird. Very weird. She had fillings in all her back teeth, which points to lax dental care at one time. He had a mouth full of dental work, the expensive kind that has to be done after a lot of dental neglect.
    Someone spent a lot of money on their teeth, or rather, their appearances. He did still have that bad tooth, but it only would have been visible when he smiled, if I am picturing it right.
    They had their jewelry, gold watch, flashy rings, items that reek of wealth, yet inexpensive clothing. Doesn't mean much, but in perspective...
    Also, her jewelry was reported as being considered "costume". More appearances.
    The almost mafia style in which they were killed, with the lack of sexual assault.
    The fact that they seem to be wealthy, yet were never reported. (As far as anyone can tell, at this point.)
    The fact that their killer did not seem to be concerned with the matches in the man's pocket, yet they had no cash and no ID. (Do we have any indication that the pockets were gone through after death?)
    The story about his father being a Canadian doctor, which sounds like something pulled off a mystery movie, and I don't buy for a second, but does show they had well rehearsed stories about who they were and from there they came. IMO.
    The manner in which they were killed and dumped, minimal time, minimal effort.

    Working theory, and I ran this by a friend at INTERPOL, she thinks it possible, given the practices of the day, these two may have been recruiters, either for drugs or prostitution.
    The country was in a state of celebration, those that even bothered to have their guard up at the time, had dropped it a little. Both Does had someone sink a lot of work and cash into their appearances.
    I don't believe that they were wealthy, I think they just had to give the impression, it was their job. Think about where we know they were: the coast, FL, truck stops in the Midwest, all places where runaways congregate. I believe they may have been looking for just those runaways.
    They may have been recruiting drug mules, they may have been recruiting for prostitution either here or abroad, but I am 99%, based on what we have about them, that this is what they were doing.

    They either were not producing the required numbers, or they tried to run, or they didn't bring in the amount of product that they were supposed to, but I am sure that it was an illegal employment situation, and their employer killed them.
    The party that I talked to at INTERPOL said that today, you don't see as many recruiters, most of the time, those in the drug or sex trade, especially those going overseas, are not coerced, they are simply forced, but in 1975, it would have been much more common for the pimps and dealers to have a couple people on the payroll that did nothing but look good, talk a lot, and bring more people into the organization. She also said that these two would have fit the profile and their murder would have fit the profile of a cartel or sex ring. It also would explain to her why they have lain with no names for as long as they have. She even went far enough as to say that the matches could have been left simply because the killer saw no reason to go through their pockets. It's very likely that the only money they received, they got from their employer, or handler stateside. They never would have had ID in the first place.

    None of this makes them any less victims in my mind, they were young people, and were very possibly escaping bad situations of their own, but I have wracked my brains and nothing else fits. And, you know, me and zebras.
    Last edited by not_my_kids; 09-24-2009 at 11:55 AM.
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.

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  19. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    [...]
    I encourage you to go through the rest of the threads and take more notes. Your analysis so far is spot on. A lot has been made of the account of the KOA man regarding what he learned from John Doe. Your points regarding that ring true to me. The only thing that really bothers me about that is that the KOA man reported all of it a year later (I don't recall if he went to the police or if they came to him). I wonder why he came forward with the story in the first place because divulging it hardly seemed necessary.

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  21. #136
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    Two random observations: Reading more, especially about Jock, makes me think that he was not wealthy.
    He has scars, this is not a pampered boy, nor a man that was pampered as a boy. That is just what his body tells me. Also, the KOA worker, he says that he and Jock were friends, rich guys usually would avoid the guys that clean the porta johns.

    I don't know if the unshaven legs indicates anything at all, but I would think that if they had been travelling on foot or hitching in August, she would have shaved them simply to keep cool. That would be assuming that they were tidying up at campgrounds and in public washrooms, but even that doesn't fit, because they didn't have "road grime", if they did, they wouldn't be noted as "very clean".
    Therefore, my personal assumption is that they had a vehicle or were living in the local area, or had at least a home base location, with full washroom facilities. In the pictures, her hair looks clean, just the way that it falls, and while it's possible she was washed down before the pictures were taken, she wasn't washed and shampooed. They weren't just cleaning up in truck stops, which makes me wonder if there was a hotel room somewhere.

    Also, is there any mention anywhere of how old the dental work was? If it was something that had been worked on for many years, as in ongoing care, or was it just started a few years prior to their deaths? I think this could be a helpful tidbit.
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.

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  23. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    I don't know where you are in this case, I am still on thread 1, reading and taking notes, but I wanted to put this out there and I hope it doesn't derail anyone. And sorry if it's been suggested, but bear with me.

    The dentals are weird. Very weird. She had fillings in all her back teeth, which points to lax dental care at one time. He had a mouth full of dental work, the expensive kind that has to be done after a lot of dental neglect.
    Someone spent a lot of money on their teeth, or rather, their appearances. He did still have that bad tooth, but it only would have been visible when he smiled, if I am picturing it right.
    They had their jewelry, gold watch, flashy rings, items that reek of wealth, yet inexpensive clothing. Doesn't mean much, but in perspective...
    Also, her jewelry was reported as being considered "costume". More appearances.
    The almost mafia style in which they were killed, with the lack of sexual assault.
    The fact that they seem to be wealthy, yet were never reported. (As far as anyone can tell, at this point.)
    The fact that their killer did not seem to be concerned with the matches in the man's pocket, yet they had no cash and no ID. (Do we have any indication that the pockets were gone through after death?)
    The story about his father being a Canadian doctor, which sounds like something pulled off a mystery movie, and I don't buy for a second, but does show they had well rehearsed stories about who they were and from there they came. IMO.
    The manner in which they were killed and dumped, minimal time, minimal effort.

    Working theory, and I ran this by a friend at INTERPOL, she thinks it possible, given the practices of the day, these two may have been recruiters, either for drugs or prostitution.
    The country was in a state of celebration, those that even bothered to have their guard up at the time, had dropped it a little. Both Does had someone sink a lot of work and cash into their appearances.
    I don't believe that they were wealthy, I think they just had to give the impression, it was their job. Think about where we know they were: the coast, FL, truck stops in the Midwest, all places where runaways congregate. I believe they may have been looking for just those runaways.
    They may have been recruiting drug mules, they may have been recruiting for prostitution either here or abroad, but I am 99%, based on what we have about them, that this is what they were doing.

    They either were not producing the required numbers, or they tried to run, or they didn't bring in the amount of product that they were supposed to, but I am sure that it was an illegal employment situation, and their employer killed them.
    The party that I talked to at INTERPOL said that today, you don't see as many recruiters, most of the time, those in the drug or sex trade, especially those going overseas, are not coerced, they are simply forced, but in 1975, it would have been much more common for the pimps and dealers to have a couple people on the payroll that did nothing but look good, talk a lot, and bring more people into the organization. She also said that these two would have fit the profile and their murder would have fit the profile of a cartel or sex ring. It also would explain to her why they have lain with no names for as long as they have. She even went far enough as to say that the matches could have been left simply because the killer saw no reason to go through their pockets. It's very likely that the only money they received, they got from their employer, or handler stateside. They never would have had ID in the first place.

    None of this makes them any less victims in my mind, they were young people, and were very possibly escaping bad situations of their own, but I have wracked my brains and nothing else fits. And, you know, me and zebras.

    In my opinion 99% is a great stretch. I would likely put it much below 1%, based on what we know!

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  25. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    Two random observations: Reading more, especially about Jock, makes me think that he was not wealthy.
    He has scars, this is not a pampered boy, nor a man that was pampered as a boy. That is just what his body tells me. Also, the KOA worker, he says that he and Jock were friends, rich guys usually would avoid the guys that clean the porta johns.

    I don't know if the unshaven legs indicates anything at all, but I would think that if they had been travelling on foot or hitching in August, she would have shaved them simply to keep cool. That would be assuming that they were tidying up at campgrounds and in public washrooms, but even that doesn't fit, because they didn't have "road grime", if they did, they wouldn't be noted as "very clean".
    Therefore, my personal assumption is that they had a vehicle or were living in the local area, or had at least a home base location, with full washroom facilities. In the pictures, her hair looks clean, just the way that it falls, and while it's possible she was washed down before the pictures were taken, she wasn't washed and shampooed. They weren't just cleaning up in truck stops, which makes me wonder if there was a hotel room somewhere.

    Also, is there any mention anywhere of how old the dental work was? If it was something that had been worked on for many years, as in ongoing care, or was it just started a few years prior to their deaths? I think this could be a helpful tidbit.
    One of the scars is a 2 inch scar. I was a pampered boy and I have bigger scars than that. The other was from appendectomy surgery.

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  27. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhyno1974 View Post
    One of the scars is a 2 inch scar. I was a pampered boy and I have bigger scars than that. The other was from appendectomy surgery.
    He had three scars from the reports I am seeing and I am aware that one was an appendectomy scar. And although that observation is based partially on scars, it's also based on the dental work, which, admittedly, would tell me more if I knew when it was done. But I haven't seen that anywhere.
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.

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  29. #140
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    you know, just this week i was pondering again & 'drug mules' popped into my head. it makes sense.

    i did mention on another page, probably part 2 or 3, that in the 70s, i went on a lot of road trips with my parents & we stayed in KOAs all over...many, if not most, had showering facilities & i remember using them!

    also, her jewelry--not so expensive really. i used to wear a lot of mexican/native american turquoise jewelry from the mid-70s & i was just a teenager in the suburbs...some was/is very expensive, yes, but other pieces weren't/aren't. looking at hers, it looks nominally priced.

    great stuff, not_my_kids, thanks
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson

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  31. #141
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    I just want to say that I am new on this site. I have never heard this lady's name mentioned as being the possible person in the '76 murders. There could be a link to this couple being Canadians. There is a great deal of information on this case on another site. I don't know how to post the site, but if you type in "Unsolved Murders/Missing people Canada", you will come upon a site which has a lot of information about Canadian and American cases. There was an article done in Reader's Digest about this case also, last year. You may find some interesting facts, if you have not checked this site. Hope this helps.

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  33. #142
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    Dumb question: Were Jane's armpits shaven? i know her legs weren't, but haven't seen anything about her armpits.
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.

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  35. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    Dumb question: Were Jane's armpits shaven? i know her legs weren't, but haven't seen anything about her armpits.
    i've never seen it mentioned anywhere. & there are no dumb questions, just dumb mistakes
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson

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  37. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capergal68 View Post
    I just want to say that I am new on this site. I have never heard this lady's name mentioned as being the possible person in the '76 murders. There could be a link to this couple being Canadians. There is a great deal of information on this case on another site. I don't know how to post the site, but if you type in "Unsolved Murders/Missing people Canada", you will come upon a site which has a lot of information about Canadian and American cases. There was an article done in Reader's Digest about this case also, last year. You may find some interesting facts, if you have not checked this site. Hope this helps.
    every little bit helps, in my opinion--thanks!

    i'll have a browse around & will post if i see. i might have already posted that canadian/american one...it sounds familiar. i'll look for the reader's digest article.
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson

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  39. #145
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    Okay, this is a longshot here and it's been awhile since I posted, but I found this profile on Doe Network today: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2322dfqc.html

    Sylvie Ouimet. Missing since April 1975 from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. She was living with her parents at Laval and was hospitalized at the Albert Prevost Institute in Montreal which is a psychiatric hospital.

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  41. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by elliottness View Post
    Okay, this is a longshot here and it's been awhile since I posted, but I found this profile on Doe Network today: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2322dfqc.html

    Sylvie Ouimet. Missing since April 1975 from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. She was living with her parents at Laval and was hospitalized at the Albert Prevost Institute in Montreal which is a psychiatric hospital.
    hi elliottness--she has already been eliminated, according to this thread (scroll down a bit):

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71789"]Eliminated poss. matches - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson

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  43. #147
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    well, that Canadian site is one I've already posted & there isn't much more there--still, it's worth keeping tabs on it, because you never know what might materialise! the thread was started in May 2008:

    http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.p...ic,1913.0.html

    i can't find the Reader's Digest article...Capergal, do you have a link? I tried looking on the website, but came up nil.
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson

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  45. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by justthinkin View Post
    Tara, I think Christopher King is worth submitting. Looks like a good match to me.

    I also still like Dermot Faulkner Kelly, a runaway? in 1972, 4 years before the murders. I submitted him to LE in Iowa, and now I'm hoping he's not our UID because I was told Dermot's living relative has refused dna testing in the past. They are currently working on locating that relative.

    I think the first drawing out on our UID here depicts a younger person, and looks a lot like 'Dermot to me. I find similarities between Dermot and the Greek looking sketch as well, plus the post autopsy photo. Someone mentioned the ears don't match, but then whoever did the work of putting the faces back on the victims after the autopsies were done did, well, not a very good job of lining features correctly; example--one eyebrow is lower than the other, one eye is stretched out more than the other. Also, I note that the official police sketch shows the UID with larger lobes. They approved the sketch, so....

    Dermot's nose looks exactly like the UID's nose.

    Kelly and King to me both resemble the UID enough to pursue a potential match. I've done what I can with getting the ball rolling on Dermot, and I hope you will start the ball rolling on C. King.
    This probably won't mean jack squat, but I noticed your potential match from IA. As I was looking through IA's cold cases today, I noticed a young couple who were shot and left by the side of the road on October 23, 1976. They were shot with a 45- two people went to trial for it, but were aquitted after their attorney provided a receipt for the gun being purchased by a Lucy Evans- who was a truck driver that lived in Kansas City. So like I said, this probably has nothing to do with it, but I figured I would throw it out there.

    Here's the Link
    http://www.iowacoldcases.com/laubenthal_henkins.html
    Last edited by Snufamonbobball; 10-10-2009 at 11:41 PM. Reason: add link
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  47. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitbits View Post
    hi elliottness--she has already been eliminated, according to this thread (scroll down a bit):

    Eliminated poss. matches - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
    Sorry. My mistake. I thought the name sounded familiar, but there have been so many names mentioned it's hard to remember them all.

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  49. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by elliottness View Post
    Sorry. My mistake. I thought the name sounded familiar, but there have been so many names mentioned it's hard to remember them all.
    no worries...there is so much info on here that it's easy to forget or confuse names, etc...I'm always having to check & re-check
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson

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