There is a lot of info on Jared here and lots of other info as well.
I agree Auburn,a certain type is being stalked,I use that term b/c I firmly believe this men are what the killer/killers is looking for..Someone mention maybe a fight club,where they have to fight their way out,that was a theory in the Canada disappearances,but it can't be the deaths here in US b/c all the bodies show no trauma,but what if they have to wrestle their way out,but never make it out and they are just killed b/c they were kidnapped in the first place.KWIM..I am not a expert on wrestling,but does it leave any marks or bruises on a body?I have been trying to figure out how are the killer/killers picking their victims.Facebook/myspace, are they going to campus bars and hanging out looking for a certain type and stalking them when they leave,are they paying girls to talk with this guys and get info if they are wrestlers.I do think they are being drugged and followed when they leave the bars,some of the guys that have been killed are big guys,so it has to be more than one person to get a big guy in a car or Van.I really thing you are on to something with several of them being wrestlers..I think we are dealing with a nation wide fight club and maybe the internet is a way to keep score..I don't know..but I really feel James Slack is one of this gangs victims.What do you all think..I know its out there!!!!
Auburn-thanks for that link..very interesting read..good find!!
Anyway, more generally. I think what's difficult about these cases is that because it's so under-investigated, because we know so little, it's easy to classify some deaths as being related when they might not be at all.
A lot of the cases in WI, MN, IA, IL, etc. seem connected, especially when you've got guys disappearing from the same bar. But to connect ones from CA or NY or PA... we'd have to assume either a very prolific serial killer team, or some sort of inconceivably devious government/CIA involvement like that which was theorized on another thread here.
Let's start simple, though. Occam's razor. What these cases need is a thorough examination from the very beginning, focusing on the most suspect ones, like Chris Jenkins or all the ones from La Crosse. If the victim didn't disappear from a bar, after being suspiciously separated from friends or in other strange circumstances, tentatively rule it out. Rule out anything outside of the Midwest, at least for now. Look at the dates of disappearance. If any happen on the same night, in different states, rule out (for now) the less suspect one. While I'm interested by the idea that this is some sort of extraordinarily elaborate cross-country crime, it just isn't the most likely.
More likely is that a good number of these are accidents, but there is also a killer/team of killers operating within a fairly specific tri- or quad-state area clustered by the Mississippi who are conveniently disguising their murders as accidents.
The M.O. for all this is still very mysterious, of course - no indication of sexual sadism, usually no marks left on the victim's bodies, etc. But look at, of all criminals, the Zodiac killer. There's a person who showed little interest in doing anything to his victims other than killing them - collecting "slaves" for his afterlife, as he said. Perhaps we are looking at something somewhat similar here. The crucial difference is that the Zodiac craved attention, needing to write the papers to not only confirm himself as the murderer but to taunt, threaten and baffle LE and the general public for decades to come. By contrast, the whole name of the game with these river murders is, well, to make them not look like murders at all... let alone calling in to report them immediately after, or writing the Chronicle with a series of cryptic ciphers.
By the way, does anybody know what happened to http://smileyfacemurders.com/?
It's been down for a while, marked private, and I have no idea how one would get in now without some prior authorization by the site owner. I hope he/she is just doing some site renovations or something. That site is one of the very few frequently updated resources on the web about these cases, and I'd hate to see it gone.
Last edited by jeffries; 12-29-2011 at 10:41 PM.
After being interested in this for about 4 years now,I've read many different theories from religion to some sort of homosexual angle...I just don't know what to think but I do not believe that all are accidents.
Has anyone read Jan Jenkins book? I have not but I have heard she says that Chris was held for a period of time and tortured and that a van was involved. I have been meaning to buy the book but just haven't gotten around to it yet.
I believe some are accidents,some are possible od's and then maybe friends cover it up...or maybe they aren't accidents and the friend(s) HAVE to cover it up. Am I making sense??
But there are too many strange clusters,so close together and within days. I don't know why I get the disturbing feeling like some sicko(s) are involved and them being so close and within days(sometimes 2 days) I wonder if they could at some point be held together. But my mind wanders and I tend let my imagination go wild...
I wonder if fraternities could even play a role in a few.
But there are many that are so perfect...I mean,one second they are there and someone is seconds away from picking them up and then they are gone like a vehicle is there waiting,maybe a team working together to abduct the victim.
Maybe a particular type of person is searched for ahead of time and then researched or followed(like through fb or any type of socal media)...maybe they excell in a certain sport or club in school and they are in the papers a lot like Chris Jenkins or any of the other wrestlers that I mentioned before.
I wonder if any of them are gamers? Neo Maximus (the one who legally changed his name) was a gaming GOD,I mean he was famous to all the gamers...look him up.
For a while there was talk of the cross necklaces that were not being found with the bodies,I guess there were quite a few. I have also read that cell phone jammers could be involved.
Please don't mind me. All just MOO.
Chris Jenkins was held for a time and his body showed signs of trauma-I read it look like he was tied to a chair and his neck was suspended with a rope or something.His body is only one I have read that had some kind of trauma to it,all the others none.I am leaning towards he is not part of the cluster,b/c why was he beaten and all the others were not,I can not imagine he would be the only to to try and fight to get away.I to believe they are being held together for a time..why IDK.I also believe phone jammers are being use,due to several phones going dead in the middle of calling someone.I think the videos of Josh S and other guy(forgot his name) running to a medical building and kicking the window in is very important-he was being chased half naked-both were found in water.Also-why are some young men found and others not,but they disappeared under the same circstanances,leaving a bar or party..like Brain S,he was last seen going in a bar,but never seen coming out of it and thats on camera!!
This case has really gotton to me-I am still worried about tomorrow night-New Years Eve!!IDK what to think-I hope I am wrong about NYE!
There always seem to be more of these missing men around St. Patrick's Day.
Why is that?
I've said before that I believe someone (or more than one person) has found the perfect murder. It is so easy to say the victim drank and therefore it was a tragic accident that occurred,and IMO that is what makes it so perfect.
Who is the man Carly's talking about in "You're So Vain"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecXFFA1N86M
Buttons updated 02-20-2015 Warning! Foul Language
Made by HD ----->
Has a familiar ring to it, sadly:
Nathan Bihlmaier, Harvard Student, Drowns 2 Days Before Graduation
The more self-aware I become, the less sense any of this makes
Rule-of-Three (click to read)
Three-No Cases (click to read)]
Red Flags When Spouse Goes Missing (click to read)
Distancing (click to read)
I don't buy it.
Major reason? A lot of these boys went missing near bodies of water, in the winter time.
If you fall into cold water, you are dead unless you get out real quick.
IMO plenty of drunk college boys fall into water late at night when they're drunk...the ones in the warmer states/summertime just climb out again and you never hear about it.
Just giving this a bump after reading on GLP about the possibilities of it being related to Trane, or another AC company as related to R-22. My dad works for a company purchased by trane, and said he hasn't been in use of that for many, many years so it would have had to be owned by someone with extensive knowledge and most likely their own business. I also am from Eau Claire, and know of at least two people who have had friends i have worked with/for who say they just dont believe the circumstances involved. I can promise you a BAC of something like .16-.20 will not convince these people that the area around the water/the water itself are worth going to at 3am, especially all alone. I cannot say what it is that happens/is happening to these kids, but i feel it necessary to point out that about 90% are white, and a couple of the other 10% have a certain white appearance, one example being Rodriguez who was blonde and certainly had a white(ish) appearance to himself. Also one thing people seem to move past so easily is the fact that GHB was found in a few of the people's systems, and I know of people here who have been Ruffeed out at the bars on certain nights, and the ones i am aware of are 6ft and up, bulky guys.
As to the statement above, i do agree that a certain % of the drownings are horrible decisions on the part of the deceased, but there are at least a handful of accounts that remain unsolved including members asking for help or waking up in the river, especially those of the bodies found missing their religious items, and IMO certainly the St. Johns Abbey investigation on Josh Guimond and the other man who had his scent tracked by the dog in the same area (although i am aware it was the same dog used for both boys, but from extensive reading have to assume credit is due to the person who breeds/trains these scent dogs to be right about what/where the end up)
In no way am i trying to deter anyones opinions here, just want to state my opinion, and will continue to read/try to understand what is going on with the drownings. I also have to point out that here at EC, you would have to walk down to the water, and the area around water st is shallow before it's deep (like a crappy beach) which would negate people randomly falling in as there would be bruising from impact or most likely some form of visual trama. Sorry for such a long post.
The evidence posted was about one of the dudes who woke up in the river and some other guy who broke into a medical center after being chased from a bridged area. I have to relook tomorrow as reading all the trash on topix and things essentially destroyed my brain. Ill edit the post asap, just have a few more things to check out
Last edited by GoBrewers; 06-25-2012 at 05:02 AM. Reason: cant finish a sentence.
If this is so widespread you'd think someone would have gotten away by now. JMO
Who is the man Carly's talking about in "You're So Vain"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecXFFA1N86M
Buttons updated 02-20-2015 Warning! Foul Language
Made by HD ----->
This may have already been posted and I may have missed it but...the smiley face picture that I saw on the Kirsten Piehl blog looked like a King gang sign. We had one on the top of our garbage can and I googled gang sign ....in my area and gang signs came up. It said this particular sign was Kings Latin Gang. It looked like it anyway. I have always wondered about the cases in MN, WI, it seems very strange, and the Harvard Student who's wife was pregnant is very sad. It's all very sad and I am sure LE will work hard to find out.
Missing college student found dead
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 4:35 a.m. CDT
WHITEWATER, WIs (WSAU) A missing college student has been found, dead, after falling off a ledge at a quarry in Walworth County.
20-year-old Mark Wegener was last seen near his apartment leaving a party around 1am Saturday. He'd been attending U-W Whitewater. He was reported missing the next day when he didn't return home. His body was found at the bottom of a gravel pit on Monday morning.
Police say foul play is not suspected. There are indications that he slipped and fell. An autopsy on the body is planned for today.
[ 14 months later ]
Benjamin R. Fuder – Body Located July 29, 2012
Posted by Admin in Cases | Tagged Benjamin Fuder, Benjamin R. Fuder |
Benjamin R. Fuder – Left downtown area alone after midnight.
Benjamin R. Fuder, a University of Wisconsin-Whitewater student reported missing over the weekend was found dead at a quarry early Sunday, according to the Walworth County Sheriff’s Department.
The body of Benjamin R. Fuder was last seen in downtown Whitewater around 12:30 a.m. Saturday. Fuder’s body was found at Whitewater Limestone Quarry in the town of Whitewater at 6:45 a.m. Sunday. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
A Walworth County dispatcher on Sunday afternoon refused to reveal Fuder’s age or hometown or cause of death and referred questions to the Walworth County sheriff, who was not in the office Sunday.
1) Having been a resident of WW at one time and spending seven years driving back and forth on South Franklin to reach a former residence multiple times a day, I NEVER saw college students walking or biking this direction at anytime of the day - not once, ever. There were/are a few walkers (regulars) and the occasional avid cyclist that use this route in addition to two sets of children that ride down this road and NEVER at night. - This is a route I drove daily. There is absolutely NO reason for college students to ever take this route, and in the seven years I occupied my residence, NEVER saw a college student on this route...NEVER.
2) The road to the quarry where the students "fell" in is: gravel, dark, long, out of the way, and would be completely unfamiliar to anyone who has not spent a good deal of time in Whitewater. They would not "happen" upon it. Though it is on a local short cut, it is not a short cut that a student would use...period. It just isn't. Students that travel use P to get to Whitewater lake and the state parks...this I know for a fact. They do not use South Franklin. This can easily be checked by doing a car count and visualizing if the people look like locals or students. They are rarely students.
3) 14 months - 14 months for students to fall in, same age (almost), same place, both students, both not extreme drinkers but at bars/parties drinking, both having the appearance of GHB to friends and bartenders? - unofficial complete hear say.
4) Dispute over in one case where the wallet was found and why it wasn't on the students person. Both led to police over an anonymous tip?
I just don't buy it...any of it. As someone who lived in Whitewater this seems strange to me. VERY strange.
Campus and campus housing is in the opposite direction, restaurants are in the opposite direction, bars are in the opposite direction, help is in the opposite direction, stores, traffic and everything else are in the opposite direction. The quarry is for locals, used by locals, private and off the beaten path.
For this reason IMO:
These kids were murdered.
I feel the person is a local, or someone who lived in WW someone who is very, very familiar with the area, the quarry, the times that equipment and personnel start and stop. Most likely someone who has lived there thier whole life, or someone with strong roots to Whitewater.
I feel the person or persons are either part of an organized group, or has a highly organized mind and is with deliberation killing or orchestrating the killings - though I feel the victims are random chosen that night...not followed, a planed murder with an unplanned victim.
If not part of a group there is some reason the victims "trust" the perp - could be LE, could be someone who appears non-threatening, offering a ride.
Victim could be being drugged, targeted and killed (some have voiced a gang theory - could be possible? not sure) Whitewater has a high Latino and Hispanic community on the east side. Someone else voiced LK, though I would NEVER do so. I guess it is possible, this is not an area of expertise for me, so I would know little of what to look for except perhaps shoes, cars, etc...
I feel strongly that these kids are being killed.
The number five comes up for me, so perhaps that is random, or perhaps that is something significant I don't know. I am not a psychic...
The time I spent in Whitewater was brief, it is a wonderful community...and again, perhaps there is HARD evidence that says the kids just fell in, or were partying with a group of friends and fell in. To me, the quarry is not a place anyone travels to alone, ever.
Its not. The community is notorious for keeping or trying to keep their reputation clean...though my guess is it is getting harder these days. The community prefers to be viewed as a safe town; wonderful raising families, catering to disabled students, etc... I imagine that is why the cut and dry "no foul play". The town is small enough that the locals are not likely to speak at all about crime, no one wants to step on anyone toes..everyone plays nice, because you might just work for the persons brother whose toes you step on, or your child might be in the teachers class of the husband whose toes you just stepped on.
I simply do not believe it, on any level...though if there is compelling evidence which proves these kids fell in: I live for the truth.
Again this is all my opinion, none of it is true. I pray for the families and parents of these victims in their search for peace.
Its very sad either way.
I somehow stumbled onto that link ^above^. Very informative,and makes a very compelling case.
Posting advance notice to readers that the parents of Matthew Ward and of Joshua Swalls will each be giving Killing Killers in depth interviews in early December concerning their sons' disappearances and drownings in Indiana this past October and November.
This will hopefully shed additional light on these suspicious deaths, as well as to call more public attention to the young mens' cases so police will feel compelled to continue to investigate them.
The first interview, regarding Matt, is scheduled to go live here in the opening days of December, followed shortly thereafter by Joshua's. Photos will accompany.
Here is part of that interview with Walton Matthew Ward's mother. He had a blind date set up from cupid.com but the date never showed....apparently Matthew had mentioned a few things about this girl and one thing that struck his mom as strange was that the girl had told her son she had a women's wrestling scholarship from Indiana. The mother looked into that and found there were NO women's wrestling scholarships of any kind there. And he made a one second 911 call that was terminated soon before he "accidentally" drowned in 3 FEET OF WATER!!!!!
cut & pasted:
Q#28: Who first discovered the cell data concerning the emergency phone call, and how did detectives react when they learned that Matt had dialed 911 only minutes before he went missing?
“The missing person detective had the phone records pulled, so we knew very early he had dialed 911. Their answer was it was probably a misdial, no worries.”
Q#29: Was the 911 call the last one Matt made, and who else had he chatted with or attempted to notify in the course of that entire evening?
“Yes, the 911 call was the last outgoing call I am aware of. I can now pick the phone up at IMPD, not sure what good it will do now. They have been messing with it for weeks. Who knows what they have done.”
Q#30: Throughout law enforcement’s handling of your son’s disappearance and drowning, do you feel they have been 100% helpful and forthright?
“NO, and I [take issue] with their incompetence. [The answer below is from Matthew’s father, my ex-husband.]”
“The answer is absolutely NO. The IMPD effort has been very frustrating and unresponsive during the entire process from the initial missing report to this moment! IMPD initially filed the necessary electronic missing person report but took no action to investigate the case. It appears they chose to manage the case from behind their desk and did not take any proactive action. My ex-wife assumed the investigative responsibility by going to various bars in the Broad Ripple area interviewing bar managers, security personnel, bartenders and employees. She established locations, timelines, videos, and contact names who had met my son that night. She obtained mobile phone and computer data to help trace leads. She had posters with a picture made, posted and distributed. She contacted the media and conducted multiple TV interviews to increase awareness. All pertinent information was given to IMPD for follow up. IMPD was lethargic with the follow up appearing to hope my son would magically appear. The one consistent response we got from IMPD was how very busy and overworked the detectives were with each handling approximately 30+ cases.
“Not until the body was recovered and positively identified 11 days later (Oct 23) in the White River did any real follow up take place. The response was still very slow taking weeks to make contacts, conduct interviews, search the area and gather facts. To this date (Dec 5) many questions remain without answers. We had provided a specific list of open issues . Yet IMPD has classified his death as accidental due to drowning, stating it appears my son accidently fell into the canal. It is very suspicious and illogical that a very healthy and strongly trained 23-year-old athlete ‘fell’ and drown in three feet of water on his own.
Q#31: What is the current status of the police investigation into Matt’s death, and have you received the final autopsy and toxicology reports yet? If so, can you share any or all of these findings with the public?
“As it stands right now it will be accidental. They found ‘no defensive wounds’ or head injuries. I do not think they could tell too much about scratches after nine days in the water. However when pressed, they indicated ‘no trauma’ whatsoever.”
Interviewer's note: There were three very different Blood/Alcohol findings (BAC) in this case, depending on the organ tested. These were: 0.132 in the eye, 0.28 in the heart, and 0.4 in the urine. Police told Julie Kvinge they “don’t know what this means.” Making the final BAC determination even more murky is the fact that alcohol is naturally produced in all dead bodies during decomposition and especially elevated in those that have been submerged.
Q#32: Do you believe your son really drowned, or do you think he was murdered?
“My son was murdered, and I will spend the rest of my life looking for who did this cowardly act to my son. I know this group or whatever they are have gotten away with this over and over. I believe from what I know their time is coming to an end very soon.” Julie Kvinge, mother
“I believe he was murdered on the basis of: 1) a 911 mobile call being placed at 1:40 am and terminated within one second 2) his cell phone was found two weeks later in workable condition on the bank of the canal (normally would be in his pocket) 3) he was in excellent physical condition capable of getting out of three feet of water and, 4) he was visiting from California and was not familiar with the area and accessible paths to the canal. My conclusion: Someone (probably more than one) was with him and knows what happened.” –Walt Ward, father
Read the whole interview here. His mother shared many details. IMO,there is someone or a group of people that are targeting these young men. I believe that are doing their research on these men beforehand...whether it is through facebook or dating sites such as cupid.com. Maybe some of them are accidents but cases like Walton Matthew Ward's really strike me as odd.